Oscilloscopes

[Drammy]

How many people use Oscilloscopes across the final mix, judging effect amounts etc, preventing phasing?

I am looking into it at the moment so if anyone has ever used one and has any tips or advice it would be appreciated!

[Juho L]

How many people use Oscilloscopes across the final mix, judging effect amounts etc, preventing phasing?

I am looking into it at the moment so if anyone has ever used one and has any tips or advice it would be appreciated!

Using oscilloscope to determine the mix is like watching waveform of white noise.

You can't determine phasing with an oscilloscope unless the waves are clear and simple (plain sine, saw, triangle or square). The more complex waves the harder to determine the phase difference. Even simple detuned lead is impossible, not to mention effected lead.

[Juho L]

I'd recommend to use your ears insted of oscilloscope.

[Drammy]

Its all very well using your ears but I am not going to be constantly walking around the room listening out for blank spots.

The oscilloscope I downloaded showed quite well that the current track I am working on is in phase. It has currently has full percussion, a big bassline and an arpeggiated pattern. I could even add reverb to the hats and see how much was too much.

So I beg to differ - I think it actually gave me some good results!

Has anyone else tried this?

[Juho L]

How does this phase detection works with asymmetric and random waves?

[Drammy]

I found an oscillator that has the X-Y function where the left channel is represented by the Y axis and the right by the X axis.

If a mono sound is played through the 'scope a line appears from bottom-left to top-right and is of course in phase. When a stereo signal (eg the track I am writing) is passed though the line changes into a "cloud" but the direction of the cloud was clearly bottom left --> top right indicating that the signal is in phase. If the line changes direction by 180 degrees then the signal is considered out of phase.

Hope this answers your question!

You can read the article I found that brought this to my attention at...

http://www.creativesynth.com/features/SecretBox/feat_SecretBox_1.html

Martyn

[Juho L]

Heck. I didn't thought the XY-function at all. I should stab myself.

[Drammy]

I really would recommend trying it out Juho.

I had a hat pattern that produced the in-phase line/cloud I then started adding some reverb. The line stayed the same but the cloud became more circular in the centre, indicating that the reverb was starting to put the hats out of phase. I was thus able to find the reverb limit and then select the amount of reverb that sounds best without going beyond the limit.

Really quite a useful tool!

[udenjoe]

Wavelab has a little one in the recording window. I watch it but don't use it that much. Don't want everything crystal.

[Blank]

im with u udenjoe...i watch it but dont use it...but that is a cool idea marty...ill have to try that...which oscilloscope do u use...?


peace
Blank

[Drammy]

Apparently most studio engineers use dedicated outboard kit which can cost anything from ?400 upwards!

However I found a free app on the net which uses your computers soundcard to analyse the signal. Here's the link:

http://polly.phys.msu.su/~zeld/osc251.zip

Let me know what you find...


Martyn

[Juho L]

Apparently most studio engineers use dedicated outboard kit which can cost anything from ?400 upwards!

You can get good second-hand analog scope less than 50?.

[Blank]

thanx a ton marty...yeah juho i really dont have the cash as of right now but i have some options on where to buy them if i get some...


peace
Blank

[marc]

I found an oscillator that has the X-Y function where the left channel is represented by the Y axis and the right by the X axis.


that's usually not an oscilloscope but a phase correlation meter. sometimes they're called jelly fish meters as well.

they show amplitude on Y and stereo spread on X and they're indeed very helpful, especially when you need to be mono compatible (TV, radio).

there is PC/Mac software based versions (e.g. PAZ/waves) but those usually have a pretty high signal/display latency.

marc