Jumpy Knobs, Access cant seem to solve this one

[mickrodot]

Hi,

When i turn the knobs on my Virus B Rack it sometimes jumps to either full 127 or 0 depending on which way i turn them. It seems to do it more when i try turn them in small incerements.

I've emailed Access with this problem and they said that they had heard of the problem before and were busy trying to recreate it. I have had no response since.

Does anyone else have this problem, and does anyone know how to fix it?

Thanks

Mick

[jake_syd]

Hi,

Yeah I do remember my Virus doing this at one stage, Infact it may still be happening to a lesser extent.....I find if If turn the knob it will work OK up down yeah Ok.....then randomly just jump up to 127...hmmm Infact if I twist and turn the filter whilst playing a patch it will jump to 127 or whatever its just like it resets itself...is this what you mean?

What Parameters do you find do this Specifically...What OS do you load the T version????

All, I can say is try updating to the OS..disabling all sysex operation and disconnect from your PC, Sequencer ( I had trouble with the Sound Diver creating full on errors in the unit) Then try it....

Im going to try it out this weekend and the load the older OS and see if it still happens then...!!!

[mickrodot]

The problem has been there through a few OS updates and hasnt changed when updating the OS. It is also the same when my virus is totally disconnected from my computer and running on its own. The first two knobs are the most jumpy (filt 1 and filt 2) probably because they are the most used. I've tried changing the pots around but this didnt help either.

[Tomer=Trance]

i also have a virus rack clasic and have the exact same problem
recording automation is hell takes me 5 minutes to get it right and then i give up and use velocity to controll the filters :D
hope they'l fix it in the next os

also filter 1 and 2 are cousing the most trouble

[Juho L]

recording automation is hell takes me 5 minutes to get it right and then i give up and use velocity to controll the filters

Ever thought to draw automations in the sequencer?

[Tomer=Trance]

dont have the controllers number
microdot do you have the controller list?

[Juho L]

dont have the controllers number
microdot do you have the controller list?

Ever thought to read the manual, sonny?

[jake_syd]

Yep find the necessary controller values here:
http://www.waf80.de/virus/controller.html

Unfortunately I want to be able to tweak these suckers in realtime...LIVE

Has anyone tried controlling the knobs using an external hardware controller??? I reckn its the knobs....

I hope this gets fixed...I wrote to Access about this and about my LCD issue and they said...Duh...nah there is no update that fixes this that we know of..

[jake_syd]

Bump... :lol:

I wanna keep this one near the top...hope some one from Access sees it....

[jake_syd]

Bump... :lol:

I wanna keep this one near the top...hope some one from Access sees it....

[hugo]

Same problem for me too. I have been using my nord lead rack as a controller. The filter envelope section of the nord has the same controller numbers 40 41 42 etc. as the fliter section of the virus. That works fine (better knobs to tweak anyway...) but still doesn't help on other functions.
Please fix it Access.

[jake_syd]

Access replied to a Help Desk enquiry I made with the following response:

"This actually is a known problem and Access tries to find a solution with one of the next OS released for the Virus Rack Classic."

Guess I will just have to wait for the next OS update.....

[Tomer=Trance]

that can take up to a year :(

[mickrodot]

Those of us with this problem should keep hassling Access to find us a solution. Hopefully if enough people bug them they will fix the problem, or even better they can give us all new Virus C's :wink:

btw: does anyone with a virus C have this problem or is it just B users?

[Tomer=Trance]

yeah i wonder of virus xl's also have this problem

[Drammy]

I have experienced this problem on my Rack XL!

I have noticed that is definately something to do with the knobs as when I use my Remote 25 to control the Virus there is no such problem.

[Tomer=Trance]

hmm so that means its a problem with both rack
gone mail them tomorow
hoping to guys will mail them too :)

[mickrodot]

I just mailed Access about the problem again. Got the following reply...

"This is a known issue with the Virus Rack's software. Unfortunately I still have no estimated release date for a new Virus Rack software nor if this will be changed already in the next one. "

Doesnt really help, but at least i know its not a problem with the knobs themseleves and is a problem with the software. However, does this mean its a problem with all virus B racks or just a few?

I feel kinda cheated with a fualty virus which, it seems wont be fixed in the near future.

[Tomer=Trance]

feel the same way too
i thought this 2.2 update is going to solve it :(

[picato]

Yesterday I bought a "real" midi interface, (I've just used the one through my soundblaster audio card earlier), and the problem almost seemes to be gone!!! Since I installed the new interface I've only experienced the problem once. Usually the values jump at least every third time I turn the knobs. Do you others play your Racks through advanced midi setups or just direct from a midi keyboard to the synth?

[Tomer=Trance]

i dont see why
i think mine and your problem is totaly different
when i turn the cutoffs knob it jumps i dont see any connection to the midi interface

[picato]

i dont see why
i think mine and your problem is totaly different
when i turn the cutoffs knob it jumps i dont see any connection to the midi interface

Oh yes, my problem is/was exactly the same as yours, I suppose... Before, I used to have my Virus Rack hooked up with just a midi keyboard, and sometimes through a computer with just a basic soundblaster interface. Very often when I adjusted the filter cut off knob, the value suddenly jumped! Same problem?
This way the adjustment of the knob goes directly into the motherboard of the virus...

But now, with the new midi interface this problem seemes to be completely gone!!! I think that every time you adjust the knob, the virus will send a midi signal through the midi interface, to the computer, and then back again the same way to the virus. Don't ask me exactly why, but I don't experience the same problem even more. I'm not really sure if the adjustment signal travels both ways, or just through the computer, but anyway it works!?

[Tomer=Trance]

i still dont see aconnection between the two :D
will get a 2X2 port next week and change my midi setup

[picato]

Before I had just one single midi cable between my midi keyboard and the virus. (From midi out on the keyboard to midi in on the virus, of course).
But now the virus is also hooked up on its midi out. Every controller change you make, including turning of the cut off knob, is now transmitted through the midi interface and into the computer. But! it is also transmitted the other way back, from the computer through the midi interface and back to the virus. This way the Virus will get a sort of conformation about what you have just done with the controller knob.

Midi equipment, such as a synth, isn't just receiving midi commands about what to do. It also tells what it really does by sending midi information on the midi out.
This way you just not only send information to the synth, you will also get info back.

------

It's a bit of like when you download something from the internet... Your computer isn't only receiving data. It also send info back to the server about witch filesize it has received etc. If there should be some difference this will be fixed. Without this "two-wayed" traffic almost every file you'd tried to download should be corrupt.

According to Access the problem with jumpy knobs is known, but not (as they say) "a really major problem". Maybe it's just basically because most Virus Racks are hokked up with decent midi interfaces, and this owners never experience the problems? Seemes pretty logical to me...

Like i said before. I don't fully understand exactly why it works, but now the problem seemes to be completely gone...
:?

[Tomer=Trance]

thats how i still work and thats what i want to do :)

[Tomer=Trance]

This way you just not only send information to the synth, you will also get info back.


you mean automation?
well yeah i know it works like that :o but im not able to set up my midi like this at the moment
have only 1 in and out from my audiophile
maybe i'l save some cash and use the game port

[picato]

This way you just not only send information to the synth, you will also get info back.


you mean automation?


Well, not really. Automation is when you first record or program a program change, like for example filter cutoff, and then play it back from the computer. What I'm talking about is something like this, which way the signal travels:


Basic setup:

Cutoff knob ---> Virus motherboard
(The signal from the knob never actually leave the virus)

With midi interface:

Cutoff knob ---> midi out (on virus) ---> midiinterface ---> computer --->midi interface ---> midi in on the virus --->virus motherboard

You see the difference? It looks like with the midi interface and computer the signal goes an unnessecary long and complicated way. but there's a heavy traffic all the time along this way. You adjust the knob from lets say, 45 to 46 and then the virus tells this to the computer that echo this signal back to the synth. When the virus has changed the cut off from 45 to 46 it tells your computer this, then the knob goes from 46 to 47, the computer notice and so on... If you adjust the knob from 50 to 100, no matter how fast, there is actually about 100 different signals back and forth the signal way!!!

IN BASIC TERMS: This way your computer acts like some kind of babysitter that all the time control what your synth is actually doing. And it wont allow any jumps.

[picato]

The problem has been there through a few OS updates and hasnt changed when updating the OS. It is also the same when my virus is totally disconnected from my computer and running on its own. The first two knobs are the most jumpy (filt 1 and filt 2) probably because they are the most used. I've tried changing the pots around but this didnt help either.

Do you use both the midi IN and OUT of the virus in your setup?

[Tomer=Trance]

not at the moment
need to get myself some more midi in\outs
maybe i'l get a small m audio 2X2 port

[mickrodot]

At the moment i'm running the virus through a MIDI interface with the IN and OUT connected. My deadboard is also connected to the interface not the virus. I still have the same problem though. I have tried running the virus standalone and it does the same thing.

I think its a software issue like Access says.

[picato]

I think its a software issue like Access says.

Of course it's a software problem, or a problem to interpret the changes in the signal from the knob. But in my case I don't experience the problem when I'm using both the midi in and out on my M-audio 4X4. I've just tried to pull the midi cable from the virus midi out, and the problem is there straight on!
Also very interesting is that not all midi interfaces/setups seemes to solve the problem. I've also just tried to hook my virus up with the midi in and out on a basic soundblaster live on another coumputer, and this doesn't solve the problem!

[jake_syd]

Im thinking that the OS 2.2 has really improved the function of my VIRUS RACK!!! Maybe its just that I can finnaly see the freakn' LCD screen.... Unfortuantely they have discontinued the RACK so I bet there will be no new OS>.... :evil:

Im not sure if the knob issue is at play as I rewired my entire setup so I could use a Knob on my CS1x to record filter sweeps for the VIRUS.

I had a high quality MIDIMAN 2x2 and this isn't the issue!!! The only thing I know is that if your using the cutoff knob during a performance to dynamically control the synth it will Jump...!!!!!

[Tomer=Trance]

i have seen no change with the latest os
its 100 % a software problem and access even said that
i cant belive they will leave us users in the dark and wont come up with a solution to this problem

[ben crosland]

Come on guys - you know access will sort it out. All the other discontinued viruses have continued to receive OS updates, so why should the racks be any different?

FWIW - I don't think the Rack Classic and XL were ever conceived as performance instruments. That's not to say the encoder response shouldn't be made smoother, but I think that's why there has been relatively little fuss made about it by rack users. I expect nearly all of them are used exclusively in the studio environment, and most of those edited by remote.

From what I've heard, the encoders on the Waldorf Q series weren't that great for live tweaking either. Basically, if you want to do live sweeps etc, knobs are a better bet than rotary encoders IMO.

[Tomer=Trance]

i dont want to do live sweep i just want to program the bladdy thing manualy hehe :lol:
too much to ask? takes me a minute to "land" on the right number i want :D

[jonp7]

i also have a virus rack clasic and have the exact same problem
recording automation is hell takes me 5 minutes to get it right and then i give up and use velocity to controll the filters :D
hope they'l fix it in the next os

also filter 1 and 2 are cousing the most trouble

This describes my problem exactly too!
Virus Rack Classic.
Jumping to 127 or 0 depending which way the knob is being turned.
Noticed mainly on filt 1&2 cutoff knobs.
No significant improvement with updates (although possibly slightly better than when I first got it with original OS but maybe i'm just used to it now!).

[Tomer=Trance]

i dont see why this happends only in virus rack clasic and not in the xl or desktops

[ben crosland]

It *does* happen with the xl. It doesn't happen with the desktops because they don't use continuous rotary encoders.

[jake_syd]

FWIW - I don't think the Rack Classic and XL were ever conceived as performance instruments. That's not to say the encoder response shouldn't be made smoother, but I think that's why there has been relatively little fuss made about it by rack users. I expect nearly all of them are used exclusively in the studio environment, and most of those edited by remote.

I realise this now... after years saving up for this baby as a Newbie.... then years thinking it was just me.... Awe well... what can you do!!!!

But, I like the Idea of Rotary Encoders. That way when the new patch loads I don't have to reset the knobs..... Ah what if I get a controller with ROTARY ENCODERs ..... AAAAAhhhhhhh

At least it still sounds sweet... Thank the Lord for Sound Diver...!!!!

[Tomer=Trance]

i think ben is talking about the software when he says encoders
the desktop versions after the virus A also have 360 degres knobs dont they? i dont see why they work just fine

[ben crosland]

The knobs of the Virus A, B, C and Classic are all the same. They are not 360 degrees. Therefore, they have an absolute position, and it is a lot simpler to program the correct response.

Encoders only ever send out a relative value, rather than an absolute value. This makes it a lot more complicated to intepret the movements in a natural way. The current system adjusts the rate of change according to how fast you turn the encoder, and I think it's this part of the code that is causing the glitches - i.e. sometimes the Virus thinks you've turned the encoder sharply, when in fact you haven't.

[Tomer=Trance]

i always thought sense the B desktop they route completely at 360 degres

[jasedee]

Just another Rack XL user that can confirm this problem DOES exist with the XL's.....although I should point out that it doesnt happen enough to bother me.....actually rarely. I do use a very nice MIDI interface though, the MOTU micro lite (highly recommended)....but not too sure if this makes a difference?

I mainly use sound diver anyways....

Access are good guys, and are not out to intentionally screw good people out of their money. Alot of other companys dont care at all, but at least Access make a point of responding to queries truthfully, and not stringing people along with false promises.........there are alot of company's out there with terrible customer service, Access are not one of them.

Cheers,

Jase

[Tomer=Trance]

i cannot sweep the vilters
i dont think thats a very minor issue.
very hard to go thru the oscilator waveforms and the list goes on.
access please fix. :oops:

[jake_syd]

i cannot sweep the vilters
i dont think thats a very minor issue.
very hard to go thru the oscilator waveforms and the list goes on.
access please fix. :oops:

Yeah, if you cannot sweep the filters on a Virtual Analouge Synth... Then surely thats a real problem.. I mean what did I buy this thing for anyways... The FILTERs of course...

[Tomer=Trance]

its half as fun to work with like that...

[jake_syd]

Im gonna sell it now...

I don't want to...

Maybe I will get a VIRUS B Desktop down the track...

I was considering getting an external controller, however, this will not really fix the problem... especially twiddling knobs whilst in a sequence...!!!

Sorry Access... but Im gonna loose $1000 bucks on this and have never got good use out of it...

bye bye...

[jasedee]

bye bye...
It will be sad to see you go! I guess you cant expect 100% satisfaction from every customer and for every single product....

Are you sure we fellow Virus users cant persuade you to stay???? C'mon, if not for the most excellent VA on the market, then at least for all the good people here at the "unoficial access virus forum"?

If not, good luck with it all! :)

[Tomer=Trance]

the only reason why im not selling mine is because i will lose 40-50 precent of its original value and its only 1 year old.

[Hollowcell]

Just reading the new posts on this thread and I have to say this would be an anoying bug indeed. I realy feel bad for you guys.

Do any of you know if you have a controller with or without rotary encoders the problem still persists?

I record all my knob automation live and a bug like this would piss me off in the studio no end.

Hope you guys get it fixed soon!

[Tomer=Trance]

i have to do everything by cc#
this is super anoying
sx3 will solve this problem by creating virtual knob controlers to control hardware.

[blay]

i ve got my fingers crossed that access gets it right first time with the ti series.......

some of the issues i have been reading of here seem quite significant

[Knast]

I hope they fix the problem very soon.IN the next OS .... ... =(

[jake_syd]

Do any of you know if you have a controller with or without rotary encoders the problem still persists?

I record all my knob automation live and a bug like this would piss me off in the studio no end.

Hope you guys get it fixed soon!

If you use an external synth mapped to CC's on your Virus it works Ok!!!

I just got a used KORG MS2000 (couldn't afford another Virus after saving 2 years to spend $2200 on my VirusRack) and the KORG is a dream ....Im gonna try mapping the CC's on the knobs to the Virus Rack for programing (most knobs will be almost direct match except filter two and some OSC options)

The whole reason I got the Virus Rack was for LIVE so I could have a space saver and tweak FX send AMT and FILT CUT on the FLY without purchasing a seperate controller... I feel like a Giant Douche :oops:

Purchased New $2200 AUD
Current Value $900 AUD

To say I am spewing is an understatement!!!!

[jake_syd]

I hope they fix the problem very soon.IN the next OS .... ... =(

Nah, they won't... they have known about it for ages' going on two years. They have had two OS releases in that time and they cannot fix it...

Its thos substandard Rotaries they used They used them on the RACK XL and have now discontinued both..!!!!

I would be happy if they implemented a ABSOLUTE OPTION even tho the rotarys go around like a top they interfaced with the OS with ABSOLUTE values which you could see on the LCD and know where you were!!! Just give me some kind of proper control on that thing...!!!!!! It would probably help the pissy little processor and save it from its buffer errors in the processing... But I have a feeling its the shitty knobs themselves...!!!!

[jake_syd]

Im finally selling my Rack!!!

Probably going to get $700 for it now the Ti is out...

Thats a massive loss of $1500 loss on an instrument that never worked properly in the first place!!! Thanks a freakin' lot Access!!!

[udenjoe]

Hello bodies. It's been a while. I don't remember what my avatar looks like. Sold the Machinedrum got an MPC2500. Great piece of gear.

I have the Indigo 2. Anyway, I have a problem with my distortion knob doing this. I noticed that if I turn is REALLY slow it goes through the incriments. But this only happens with about 10% of the total revolution. I also initially thought it was something with MIDI. I think it reverts to normal when is not connected to a sequencer. MD and MPC2500 both used in this problem. I come to think there is something wrong with the pot, but I'm sure if the pot is out you would get no value change. Besides I'm able to see incriments turning slowly.

[Hollowcell]

You back in the US Uden?
Nice to see you back mate. :D

[dlb]

have similar problem on my rack too. with the 5th encoder that doe sthe envelopes etc. Have spoken to acces a couple of time sand they told me that it was a faulty encoder and needed repair. will only jump between 122-127 on the midi range. Told me to ge tin touch with turnkey to send bakc to them.

As usual though turnkey useless.

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Turnkey are really good. They used to tell me my virus was coming on a monday but would often not turn up till the friday of the following week. Like a muppet I phoned them everyday asking where it was...and I got the same response 'its coming tomorrow by 12 lunchtime'. Well, I took 2 weeks off work and got fired just so I could delivery of the fucking thing. Ive never worked since and im on benefits

DS :lol:

[waytho]

Wow! I've got my credit card out and ready to purchase my first VIRUS :!: :!:

Hey all -- I've decided I want a C but I can still find a brand new Classic for just a couple 100 bucks more (and I probably wouldn't utilize the C's increased mod sources and can live w/out the polyphony & undo button : ).

BUT -- What I think I'm hearing in all this is there was some crappy product out there - stand alone, not MIDIed into anything and it was the knobs.

Doesn't everyone think that a brand new Classic would have better grade knobs/pots?

Thanx in advance,
Wayne

[jules]

hi,

My rack XL knobs have started to behave like mention above.
Still any idea? Anyway to have these changed? Cause it seems like its the knobs themselves which are screwed (...!)

[daniel_b]

My Virus Rack does this, and I am pretty certain that the reason is simply the knob wearing out.

The second knob from the left (filter cutoff) does it badly, whereas the fifth knob (env amount) doesn't. The jumpy knob feels looser, presumably because it has been used more.

Today I found out that turning the knob while pressing it in stops it jumping.

Is it possible to tighten the knobs up, or replace them?

Daniel

[Timo]

From what I've seen on the forums here, it seems it's a common problem with the 360º limitless rotary knobs used specifically on the rack units (Virus Rack, Rack XL, etc.). I guess the only way to solve them is to replace the pots (potentiometers/knobs).

Not many people have problems with the standard knobs (the ones that only rotate a limited 270º).

[dlb]

From what I've seen on the forums here, it seems it's a common problem with the 360º limitless rotary knobs used specifically on the rack units (Virus Rack, Rack XL, etc.). I guess the only way to solve them is to replace the pots (potentiometers/knobs).

Not many people have problems with the standard knobs (the ones that only rotate a limited 270º).


Agreed, is just the pot wearing out. Recently had my rack serviced and had a couple replaced cost like £20 for each encoder to be changed. Works great now.

[Robbins]

I have replaced all the encoders, on my Access Virus Rack XL. The encoders are from a different brand, but are physically and technically identical.

It didn't help, no difference. :roll: