It's GAS time!

[Juho L]

Insane idea: I just sold my A4000 and thought that what if I'd also sell my Modular and buy a fast computer with DSP card as replacement.

I just realised that it would be much easier to do everything in software. Because I use software for compression and effects, it would be much easier to get everything inside a computer. A DSP card would fill the gap of lack of HW.

Any recommendations for a DSP card? I'd mostly use it as virtual analog.

[3o3]

Err..After all this trouble.. Well how about a Pulsar II card? those are sweet.. And Luna Expansion to that one.. or something like that

[Juho L]

Err..After all this trouble..

Yes. But I got a keyboard.

Well how about a Pulsar II card? those are sweet.. And Luna Expansion to that one.. or something like that

I just listened to some demo clips on Creamware site and that card sounds bloody good! I just did some planning and I could get a nice Athlon 64 -based PC for 800,- when combining some of the old parts from this old computer.

[Hollowcell]

So, it seems you may regret selling the VB after all hey! The modular and the sampler wasn't enough was it?

You mentioned it's easier in all software - that's because you don't have enough hardware. If you have a mixer with a few different routing options, it's easy to route sound where ever you want.

An example of why I wont go all soft ever - try doing this in software.

I run a sound from the nord sent into/thru (pre-fader or slightly wet) the VF1 FX and the Virus input (with the VC running a tempo synced LFO or something), then the result of that runs into the CS-10. From there the sound is recorded straight into the sampler (auto truncated and normalized) or computer. At the same time I have the option to insert a valve on any chanel or run the sound into the zoom too. This can be done by pressing 3 or 4 buttons and using a few knobs and sliders. It's so fast and inspirational. If only I had a hardware compressor too!

Doing this in all software using something like rewire would take much more time and would sound second rate.

I wouldn't go completely soft if I was you. I like my hardware too much though I guess. I definitely wouldn't sell that modular yet.

Don't do it Juho!

By the way, I have no idea about the latest DSP cards! hehe :lol:

[Juho L]

The modular and the sampler wasn't enough was it?

I had to sell the sampler. That got me going.

Doing this in all software using something like rewire would take much more time and would sound second rate.

I don't understand the logic of your example. If I have all in software, I can rout things the way I like with few clicks.

I wouldn't go completely soft if I was you. I like my hardware too much though I guess. I definitely wouldn't sell that modular yet.

Don't do it Juho!

Hmm... I think it would be much easier to work with software

By the way, I have no idea about the latest DSP cards! hehe

I knew it! I have to think this over.

[Hollowcell]

I don't understand the logic of your example. If I have all in software, I can rout things the way I like with few clicks.

It takes much more than a few clicks. Manualy changing amounts by using virtual sliders and the like! Think about the multiple channels too. Then theres the case of sound! Software is getting good, but not that good.

Hmm... I think it would be much easier to work with software

Setting up is easier for sure. Once everything is wired together in an analogue desk it's much more simple than software to use. No hidden menus or virtual buttons and sliders! Plus there's the analogue EQ at your finger tips for everychannel too.

I knew it! I have to think this over.

You should!

Remember though, I am only stating my opinion and you shouldn't listen fi you don't want. But after you get the chance to play in a good hardware setup and you say "I wish I spent the money on hardware instead" - I'm gunna say I told you so! hehe

[Juho L]

It takes much more than a few clicks. Manualy changing amounts by using virtual sliders and the like! Think about the multiple channels too. Then theres the case of sound! Software is getting good, but not that good.

I don't have money for big analog desk. Of course I wouldn't even consider software if I could get a good HW-setup.

Setting up is easier for sure. Once everything is wired together in an analogue desk it's much more simple than software to use. No hidden menus or virtual buttons and sliders!

Well I do mixing on PC anyway so selling Modular or not selling Modular wouldn't change the situation anyway.

But after you get the chance to play in a good hardware setup and you say "I wish I spent the money on hardware instead"

The I'd say "Oh yeah, what money".

[Tomer=Trance]

i work with the pulser 2
its a great card
the synths and the fx are great
the modular is amazing
with one of thos+a dsp expantion you can build your whole virtual studio on

[saba]

As nice as DSP cards are, computers are always advancing, and you'll end up with incompatilities sooner or later. That, and you'll run into annoying but trivial problems like driver issues, data loss due to coke spilled on hard drive, whatever.

In saying so, stick with a big brand company that won't leave you out cold.

Perhaps the TC Electronic powercore?
________
Medical Marijuana Dispensory (http://dispensaries.org)

[Blank]

Ok lets start here...we will start by saying that software equals hardware because VA's r basically software...the one problem i have ran into with Va's is that although u can get an abundance of sound from them...you can still for the most part tell the difference from one another because their basic wave sounds r slightly different...and like the nova and virus sound different to me...they have a unique sound...well by selling everything thing and going with one board would u be limiting yourself to pretty much one synth, i have heard the demos...many of the creamware instruments have the same creamware sound...and personally i get bored getting the same sound, which is why i own multipule...and personally i find software limiting also...because it makes everything visual, there is no touch involed...which i had problems getting some sort of feeling in a song...because everything was too squared out and iced over...

peace
Blank

[TommyS]

UAD-1 DSP Card

http://www.uaudio.com/products/digital/UAD-1/

:D

[Juho L]

UAD-1 DSP Card

http://www.uaudio.com/products/digital/UAD-1/

:D

Hmm... That's only for FX and it doesn't have any IO.

[Juho L]

we will start by saying that software equals hardware because VA's r basically software...

And we start wrong. DSP chips have so many benefits when compared to basic processors that to get a DSP level performance on an ordinary processor we need many times faster clock (power). DSP's are optimised for signals and audio so we can't actually compare DSP's with basic processors. Creating a VST prugin that would sound as good as DSP VA would take quite lot of CPU power. I'm wondering are there any heavy VST's?

well by selling everything thing and going with one board would u be limiting yourself to pretty much one synth, i have heard the demos...

Well, I have only one synth anyway.

many of the creamware instruments have the same creamware sound...

That's not a problem. When people listen to my music I don't think they first think "that Creamware sound again".

and personally i find software limiting also...because it makes everything visual, there is no touch involed...which i had problems getting some sort of feeling in a song...because everything was too squared out and iced over...

The lack of HW interface is indeed problematic, but there's actually also quite limited HW control on my Modular. Using Modular or using software, still I'd be clicking the screen.

[Juho L]

Hmm...

AMD Athlon 64 3000+
1GB 400MHz DDR
7200rpm 8MB cache HD
Creamware Pulsar II

That should be very nice setup.

[replicant]

Get a UAD-1 and a PowerCore with the Sonybundle and Virus and get Reaktor and you should be set for some fun :wink:

[Drammy]

I have just upgraded to a new PC. 2.8GHz P4 with hyperthreading. 1.25Gb RAM.

I have the Audiophile 2496 for audio recording. I use my Powercore for any reverb and chorus and I use my UAD-1 for all that lovely compression.

Don't forget that the Powercore also has the Virus on it for free if you buy the PCI now.

Since I went software everything has sounded SO much better - you just can't beat the quality of sound!

Bear in mind some people have reported issues using the Powercore with the Audiophile - although mine works A OK!

If you want to sample any sounds passed through these card then feel free to request something.

[Juho L]

Get a UAD-1 and a PowerCore with the Sonybundle and Virus and get Reaktor and you should be set for some fun :wink:

Or maybe if I'd get ProTools/HD system with big console and Genelec monitors and few TC FX units... No wait. I don't have money.

[Machinegunjoe]

Just read my post on the AD/DA converters...there you have the answer.

[Juho L]

Just read my post on the AD/DA converters...there you have the answer.

Yes. When stuff stays digital from the beginning to the end there's no audio mutilation happening and that's nice.

PoCo would be great but I really don't have a heap of money to burn. For example 800 euros on that computer and some additional euros for that DSP/sound card.

[replicant]

Get a UAD-1 and a PowerCore with the Sonybundle and Virus and get Reaktor and you should be set for some fun :wink:

Or maybe if I'd get ProTools/HD system with big console and Genelec monitors and few TC FX units... No wait. I don't have money.

Settle for the PoCo Elements and the upcoming Virus for the PoCo and you should be paying less then for the Pulsar II :wink:

[Juho L]

Settle for the PoCo Elements and the upcoming Virus for the PoCo and you should be paying less then for the Pulsar II :wink:

That PoCo Elements is nice but the problem is that I really don't have that much money. I have about 400 euros to spend on that card so only way to get a good card is to get it second hand. And PoCo doesn't work as an sound card so I'd have to get a sound card as an addition to that. That's just way over my budget. I'll stick with the plan of Pulsar II.

[replicant]

Pulsar II sounds like a good plan - stick to it :wink:

You can always add a PoCo later I guess :D

[Juho L]

http://www.creamware2.de/cw2/files/demosongs/Puls8.mp3

This is bloody good! I really like the sound of this card. I just found cheap Pulsar I so that probelm is solved now.

[Tomer=Trance]

pulsar 1 ? hmmm
you must get some dsp expention
3 dsp wont give you much

[Juho L]

pulsar 1 ? hmmm
you must get some dsp expention
3 dsp wont give you much

Actually I don't. I'll be using the Pulsar for bass and leads so I don't need huge polyphony. I'll be making pads and EFX with various basic VSTi's.

[Tomer=Trance]

cool
anyway if you want to add more dsp later its not very expensive
i think its 200-300 euro for the xtc card with 4 more dsp

[Juho L]

I've been stupid. Just tried out VirSyn Tera & Cube, Novation V-station and Arturia plugins. Why on earth I haven't switched on software earlier! The first plugin I tried out was that Tera. Well, the effect was quite astonishing when you expect something banal but the software turns out to sound nearly good as hardware (and consuming 50% of CPU n 1,4GHz Athlon). This is insane! The VST plugins really have gone forward since I last time bothered to try them out. Seems like I'm leaving hardware for good.

[Hollowcell]

Just make sure you hybrid the setup a bit Juho!

Going all software with no external control is crazy! You still need a way to mix and eq with hands on controlls IMO. Also it's nice to run your vocal though a valve instead of a software amp sim! I think the software route is fine as long as you have the money to buy the latest in full digital technology.

My advice is; Go and play an analogue synth sometime Juho.

And to quote you "nearly as good as hardware" :wink:

I have to admit, there are some great sounding softies now days, but put them next to a VA - yeh. nearly as good (some are better than VA even). Put them next to an analogue - 8O .

[3o3]

Juho: Software sound good these days, but still it's not using the real thing - or maybe if you'd get alot of controllers lika a Evolution UC-33 [http://www.evolution.co.uk/products/evo_uc33e.htm].. then you get hand on some control anyway

[Juho L]

Going all software with no external control is crazy!

MIDI controllers naturally are part of anykind of studio setup so going in complete software setup doesn't mean you don't have controllers.

You still need a way to mix and eq with hands on controlls IMO.

And this is the last thing I'd use MIDI controller for. You have really strange habits.

I think the software route is fine as long as you have the money to buy the latest in full digital technology.

Actually same goes for hardware in exception that nice hardware setup is going to cost you way more money.

I have to admit, there are some great sounding softies now days, but put them next to a VA - yeh. nearly as good (some are better than VA even). Put them next to an analogue - 8O .

You're having quite strange logic here. You're strarting to compare digital and analog stuff. Hoho. Trying desperately to get me stay in hardware?

[Panopticon]

I've been using some of each for a couple years now, I just think if something has the sound I'm after, I'm going to use it, be it hardware, software, miking up a bell in a metal can and running it through fx, whatever. My gripes with hardware are of course the ad/da and latency issues (since soft synths are generally automatically compensated for latency by the sequencing program). My gripes with software are stability and ease of use (they crash now and then, and go through and program them for a controller keyboard is much more tedious than simply turning on hardware and playing). But I use both, and wouldn't give up either.

Juho, have you checked out fxpansion's BFD? It's REALLY killer...

[Juho L]

My gripes with hardware are of course the ad/da and latency issues (since soft synths are generally automatically compensated for latency by the sequencing program).

Err... There's no such thing as latency in hardware. Well, of course there is some latency (few ms's) but not a latency you could notice.

My gripes with software are stability and ease of use (they crash now and then, and go through and program them for a controller keyboard is much more tedious than simply turning on hardware and playing). But I use both, and wouldn't give up either.

When I installed Windows XP my studio software haven't crashed since then. Very reliable system. Would even take it on a gig.

Juho, have you checked out fxpansion's BFD? It's REALLY killer...

I'll get one next week.

[Hollowcell]

MIDI controllers naturally are part of anykind of studio setup so going in complete software setup doesn't mean you don't have controllers.

Of course, but this isn't the type of control I meant really.

You still need a way to mix and eq with hands on controlls IMO.

And this is the last thing I'd use MIDI controller for. You have really strange habits.

You have never used a hardware desk before by the sounds. Also that's what I meant about buying the latest in digital hardware. A digital desk with motorized faders to work with-in software can be nice.

I think the software route is fine as long as you have the money to buy the latest in full digital technology.

Actually same goes for hardware in exception that nice hardware setup is going to cost you way more money.

Yep, true, but at least the money is going towards a better sound isn't it?

I have to admit, there are some great sounding softies now days, but put them next to a VA - yeh. nearly as good (some are better than VA even). Put them next to an analogue - 8O .

You're having quite strange logic here. You're strarting to compare digital and analog stuff. Hoho. Trying desperately to get me stay in hardware?

You were the one saying "I'm going to leave hardware for good" hehe. Last time I checked analogue gear was pretty much all hardware!

I'm not saying that you should stay hardware, because in the end it's your choice. It's just I know why I like hardware - (specially eq, mixing, outboard and analogue synths) and your recent music doesn't seem like the kind of music that should be all done in software. Of course synths are one aspect, but FX, EQ adn mixing are another.

I hope you don't end up buying all this stuff, then suddenly change your mind! (just like the Modular and Yamaha - hehe)

[Tomer=Trance]

thos midi mixers are expensive hollow.... you can even get a real hand digital mixer for that price :D

[Juho L]

You have never used a hardware desk before by the sounds. Also that's what I meant about buying the latest in digital hardware. A digital desk with motorized faders to work with-in software can be nice.

Digital desk would be nice addition to my setup.

Yep, true, but at least the money is going towards a better sound isn't it?

Better sound or not better sound I still can't afford a nice working hardware setup in million years. That's the reason why I'm moving to software. I could consider hardware setup when I graduate and get a well paying job.

You were the one saying "I'm going to leave hardware for good" hehe. Last time I checked analogue gear was pretty much all hardware!

Yes, but there's still no point in that comparisation. And maybe I would get an analog synth some day since I have one input on my sound card and plugging in an analog synth would be nice. Maybe that "leaving for good" was an exaggerated declaration. I just can't affor working hardware setup and that's it. Only HW I'll be having are bass, mic stuff and MIDI controllers. Probably that analog synth if I can get money somewhere.

I'm not saying that you should stay hardware, because in the end it's your choice. It's just I know why I like hardware - (specially eq, mixing, outboard and analogue synths) and your recent music doesn't seem like the kind of music that should be all done in software. Of course synths are one aspect, but FX, EQ adn mixing are another.

I think that Pulsar card has better EQ and stuff than I've used before, so in that aspect my setup gets even etter.

I hope you don't end up buying all this stuff, then suddenly change your mind! (just like the Modular and Yamaha - hehe)

Nah. I'd have kept this setup if I hadn't had to sell the A4000.

[Panopticon]

Err... There's no such thing as latency in hardware. Well, of course there is some latency (few ms's) but not a latency you could notice.



Well, I'm wasn't talking about audible delay, which isn't much of a problem, but there is certainly enough latency in a computer-sequenced hardware synths to introduce unwanted effects like comb-filtering (say, for example, you're playing an audio snare hit and piping the audio through the main outs, as well as into the virus input). Or if you're doing overdubs, even 2ms latency is enough to feel out of the pocket....

[Juho L]

Well, I'm wasn't talking about audible delay, which isn't much of a problem, but there is certainly enough latency in a computer-sequenced hardware synths to introduce unwanted effects like comb-filtering (say, for example, you're playing an audio snare hit and piping the audio through the main outs, as well as into the virus input). Or if you're doing overdubs, even 2ms latency is enough to feel out of the pocket....

Ahh! Yes, you're right. But there's also that same effect happening on some software plugins.

[Juho L]

www.kolumbus.fi/juho.lepisto/Birdland.mp3

This doesn't sound very bad, doesn't it?

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Hang on a sec. I dont understand the difference between software (computer based) and Hardware VA. Why do they sound different? Both dereive their sound from software dont they? I beleive there is a subtle difference....but why??!!!

Juho have you every used an analog before? I suggest you get yourself a decent cheap mono and use the dsp thingy for polyphonic sounds. For a time I used to run drum loops through the Pro-One filters and it brought a big smile to my face. HC, do you have audio in on the CS-10? YOu should maybe try running mono sounds through it instead of ur vintage warmer plugin.

DS

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

www.kolumbus.fi/juho.lepisto/Birdland.mp3

This doesn't sound very bad, doesn't it?

The truth is juho it sounds good. Sounds like those sounds were coming from the Arturia minimoog V hehe. At the end of the day if the sounds you are using sound good enough, then use them. If however, certain sounds sound better using real analog then use them instead. Decent software synths and VA's are good enough for most duties now. I still feel that most bass and leads duties are better served on true analogs.......this is just my opinion.

Take this MP3 (ftp://ftp.arturia.net/pub/samples/demoweb/elektrominiv.mp3) for example. Its VERY impressive and sounds really nice.......but if the bass had been done on true analog....it would of just had the edge. The truth is most people really dont notice or give a shit. But to people like me, quality of sound is of paramount interest. Hehe.....maybe I should become a synth tester!

DS

[Hollowcell]

HC, do you have audio in on the CS-10? YOu should maybe try running mono sounds through it instead of ur vintage warmer plugin.


I do run sounds into the input of the CS, but Vinatge warmer is a conpressor rather than an analogue filter.

Most of the bass sounds I've been doing lately I sample from the CS, then I run those same samples back into the CS for a double pass of the filter. You can hear examples of this at my soundclick site. Also from memory I think the bass in the track "Illness" I did the same thing.

So what were we talking about on this thread again? Hehe.