Digital desks

[303lovesit]

Whats everyones view on digital desks?

Got the yamha o1x and have noticed the tracks sound a hell of a lot diffeent but do people actually prefer digital sounding desks?

Or do you prefer an analoge souning one?

Views please?

[303lovesit]

Yeah thats what I thought :roll: :wink:

[303lovesit]

Ok I tell you wht I think not to sure if its Digital I think its MLAN I mean though its digital data when u got say 3 stereo imputs plus about 8 ins and out traveling down one cable you must lose quality!!!

To me it allmost takes that live fat sound away and replaces it with an over clean crappy thin digital sound!!

I really just cant make freinds with it so for me Im going back to my roots lol!!

Surely there must be views on this when everything seems to be going either digital or virtual!

View welcome :D

[Timo]

I don't know much, but when I get a desk it's going to be an old analogue one, something second-hand but still decent and well looked-after. Like an A&H GS3, or Soundcraft Spirit Studio or (albeit more expensively) a Ghost, or somesuch.

Apparently the Mackie DB8 sounds terrible.

[picato]

My personal opinion: Digital desks are really good, but not the cheap ones for home recording purposes... I suggest putting that money on a decent audiocard with lots of ins and outs instead. If you also got a really good computer and some nice plugins you don't need the eq and effects on the desks either, and you get much better audio quality. But it's really nice with hands on experience though. a mixing desk is nicer to work with. Some years ago digital mixing desks served an important purpose: they handled a bit of the effects that regular computers then didn't have the power to do.
So my opinion is that with the computers of today, you don't really need a digital mixing desk. I would have spend that money on the computer and software instead. If you search for the hands on experience you could also get a midi controller desk to mix with your sequencer program, if you use one of course.

[Tomer=Trance]

dump the desk and get a good sound card with in &out expantion box
midiman, creamware or rme,also try esi
very nice price and i heard its good

[Hollowcell]

I have always liked the sound of Analogue EQs.

I think to get a good Digi desk, the money you have to spend is crazy, but to get a nice sounding Analogue desk with sweet EQs is much more affordable.

If I was thinking about spening the money for a cheaper Digi desk, I would rather buy a multi-in and out sound card.

[303lovesit]

For me this is such an important topic to touch up on because i really think i should just get a 10 in 10 out soundcard! which one I dont know but well up for some opinions!!

I mean do people like myself really need a mixer when i do everything in SX and add all my reverbs and compression with plugs etc!!

The O1X had an on board soundcard/ audio interface which looked lovely but really didn't like the sound of atall just like I said it sounds almost to fake and thin shitty bitty sound!!

So then I was really thinking of sending it back and getting a beasty yamaha desk but really do I need one I think im gonna have to go with some of you guys and just get a really good soundcard and have no mixer atall! and with the change get a nord and get some more ram!!


Do you think eventually dance music without live instruments and live percusion/ vocals will need mixers?? :roll:

Also last thing whats the power core sound card like? read in to it but does anyone have one on here?? would like to heard view on this thanks!!!

Sorted geeeeezerzzzz :D :D

[Drammy]

Timo - whereabouts in England are you?

Reason being - I am thinking of selling my Soundcraft S200B delta desk.

PM me if it is of interest to you.

[Drammy]

303lovesit -

I mean do people like myself really need a mixer when i do everything in SX and add all my reverbs and compression with plugs etc!!

Not in my opinion you don't - A good soundcard would definately do the job (see your other post in the Gen. discussion forum for my response).

[picato]

I mean do people like myself really need a mixer when i do everything in SX and add all my reverbs and compression with plugs etc!!



Until now I've never thought about it, but my answer has to be NO. On the other hand like Hollowcell says, analogue desks have another character. I suppose it's more about personal taste than good quality. Because we all have sort of different views about what excelent sound, and a good mix is. "Dance music" is a fairly wide definition and "dance tracks" sounds very different.

[303lovesit]

Even the best analouge desks give off slight white noise but do you think not having a desk atall takes away a feeling of sound that only analouge desks can make!!


Also not having a desk surely means stuff like not being able to route mics and stuff or maybe later on not being able to route stuff to effects units!! though i am not plannin on getting outboard stuff at the moment im really starting to think about weather to get one or not!!! :roll:

[picato]

Even the best analouge desks give off slight white noise but do you think not having a desk atall takes away a feeling of sound that only analouge desks can make!!



The question is if you hear the difference in the end, and if other people does? Maybe you personally do because you have spend a lot of time on that particular mix, and know every little detail by heart. But the difference between a million selling hit and not isn't really about what mixing desk you've got... I mean, if you've got some commercial purposes with your music, this isn't the major point to put in most effort and concern.

[303lovesit]

So true man!!!

I always hear every bit of detail in my tracks but when im unhappy with it when i show other people it there likw wow!!!!!

an im like now man it soiunds shit!!

But I think im gonna order my delta 10/10 now and a nord and spare screen and 4 more planet wave cables!! :D

But thanks guys for intresing topic!!

Maybe one day i might get a desk again but really not needed now as all my processing is done with very expensive pluggins!!


Before I close this matter i have one more question!!

Can anyone actually tell the differnce between a really good pluggin compressor to an outboard compressor??? intrested to see if anyone can and if so what diffrences?

I usualy compress all my parts but when i send to master house i usualy leave the master uncompressed for them to do but with out a mixer i will not be able to do....

Anyone???? :D

[Drammy]

In my opinion the only plug-in compressors that are any good when compared to the real thing are the Fairchild, LA2A and 1176 that all come with the UAD-1

Waves C-1 is good but not as good all-round as those above.

[Hollowcell]

I mean do people like myself really need a mixer when i do everything in SX and add all my reverbs and compression with plugs etc!!


I'm gunna answer this one too.

A lot depends on the sort of music you really want to make/record. I wouldn't want to mic up a drum kit running straight into the PC - actually most "real intruments" I'd rather keep on the analogue side of things for as long as possible. eg: using valve compressors and pre amps. It's all personal taste in the end though. I'm no pro and my music reflects that, but I know what makes me happy and in the end that's what it's all about.

Now days digital mixers are very good (but only if you seem to go top of the range). For the money that someone would commonly spend on a digital mixer for the home, I think a nice mutli-in sound card would be much better value - I mean why go through a digital mixing desk, when you are just going to mix digitaly in the computer anyway?

Like I said though, it's all about what makes you happy. Some people really like the clean sound keeping everything digital, and that's cool. Some people like the characture that comes from routing a signal through a bit of analogue gear before the final digital recording. :)

[Hollowcell]

Can anyone actually tell the differnce between a really good pluggin compressor to an outboard compressor??? intrested to see if anyone can and if so what diffrences?


Nice outboard compressors give the sound a slight colour, but plug-in compressors seem to be very clean and colourless - same can go for EQs too (although sometimes this is usefull). Have a listen to a nice hard bassline run though an outboard valve compressor in comparison to a plug-in - quite different.

I do use plug-in compression a lot of the time now days, as I don't have access to a good outboard compressor here in Japan (or enough money to buy something :cry: )- I must say with the newer level of compressor plug-ins I miss good outboard compression much less than I used to.

[303lovesit]

Thanks for that hollowcell!! :D

I think ive definetly done the right thing sending the o1X back!! I meant fair enough digital quality but why pay all that money for the automised and moterised fader and other stupid things on the desk when u can just do it with a few clicks of the mouse!!!

Just getting lazyer and lazyer on producing in my eyes!! plus I really do love having wires scatted everywhere putts a bit of hecticness back in the mix :twisted:

I mean at that ?1100 for the o1x id rather spend that cash on some new synth like a nord 2 get a decent soundcard and another monitor screen for the SX mixer!!

No going back now im gonna ring GAK up today and let them know!!

Now its just a matter of choosing right soundcard :? :D

Taxi!!!!!

[303lovesit]

Sorry not heard of a UAD-1 what is this Martyn? :?: [/quote]

[Tomer=Trance]

mackie dsp effect card

[303lovesit]

thanks mate ill check it out :D

[Drammy]

It is indeed a dsp card but it is no longer distributed by Mackie. It is now distributed by Universal Audio - the company that has developed and manufactured them.

I have a UAD-1 for compression and a Powercore PCI for reverb and some mastering plugs I use, namely the Master X3 and the Assimilator. Both fantastic pieces of kit!

www.uaudio.com

Universal Audio have many years experience of producing some of the best tube compressors on the market. They bought a plug-in company called Kind of Loud Technologies and have since been recreating some of the "industry standard" compressors such as the Fairchild 670 and their own models; the 1176 and the LA2A. I have not heard a professional who has worked with these $30,000 compressors say that the plugs aren't anything but fantastically realistic in their emulation of the originals kit!

Worth a listen if you get a chance!

If you want me to compress some samles that you provide me with I will do so and you can compare them to some compressors you use.

Martyn

[Hollowcell]

They bought a plug-in company called Kind of Loud Technologies and have since been recreating some of the "industry standard" compressors such as the Fairchild 670 and their own models; the 1176 and the LA2A. I have not heard a professional who has worked with these $30,000 compressors say that the plugs aren't anything but fantastically realistic in their emulation of the originals kit!


Some more stuff that will make me miss a Valve compressor even less. I'll have to take a listen myself I think.

Thanks for the links mate.

[Smag]

It is indeed a dsp card but it is no longer distributed by Mackie. It is now distributed by Universal Audio - the company that has developed and manufactured them.

I have a UAD-1 for compression and a Powercore PCI for reverb and some mastering plugs I use, namely the Master X3 and the Assimilator. Both fantastic pieces of kit!

www.uaudio.com

Martyn

I've been on the site but can't find anything about a card!! There's software to download which sounds good but where's the card? The thing is, I'm looking to buy a new soundcard and don't know whether to go for Audiophile, save up for a Creamware Pulsar 2 or this UAD-1 thing. Any ideas? (Must get rid of my Audigy :x )

[Tomer=Trance]

the card does not have an audio interface its only for prossesing
so i would say save up for the pulser 2 i use it and i love it.
say how many compressors can this card run?

[Drammy]

Tomer's right - the UAD-1 is a DSP card, ie it has a processor in it which apparently equates to about an extra 2.8GHz processing power.

There is no Audio input at all.

I use the Audiophile 2496 but am thinking about switching to the RME Hammerfall.

For details on the Project Pack: http://www.turnkey.co.uk/tkweb/stockdetail.jsp?sku=UAUD-UAD1&context=WEB

For details on the Studio Pak: http://www.turnkey.co.uk/tkweb/stockdetail.jsp?sku=UAUD-UAD1SP&context=WEB

Although I wouldn't recommend buying them from Turnkey - they can definately be found cheaper elsewhere!

[303lovesit]

Well thanks for all the tips etc lads Ive ended up just going for the delta 10/10 see how it is when i get it!!

If it suck ill just flog it on ebay! bit of a contrast to the ones mentioned but it does the trick for a mate of mine! see how it goes!!!

Martyn that UAD-1 does sound very tasty considering I use alot of Waves pluggings so would be ideal!!!

If this is Crap think i will invest in to one!

But thanks for all the info guys!! :wink:

[Smag]

Cheers Martyn, that's a great help. I've had a crap soundcard for too long and have vowed to make my next one a blinder.

Does this mean I could somehow use the UAD DSP card in tandem with my Soundblaster Audigy? - like Tomer said, the UAD has got no Audio ins and outs and my Virus is plugged straight into the SB Audigy port. What do you do for connections?

[Blank]

you either have another soundcard or you get rid of all your equipment and go software!!

peace
Blank

[Tomer=Trance]

i would say go for one of the creamware cards and get dsp prossesing and a good soundcard at the same time

[Smag]

I'm in 2 minds about the Creamware Pulsar 2. Reviews seem mixed about it's stability, I am after that or something similar though

[Drammy]

Smag,

Don't know if you have much spare cash but personally I think the UAD's are quite expensive and I'd make sure it is what you need first. Sounds like you could definately do with a new soundcard for some better AD convertors. Whether or not you need the UAD-1 is another matter - I use it for mixing and mastering. But it definately is not a replacement for a soundcard as I stated there is no Input or Output for audio.

There is a good forum for the UAD-1 at http://www.chrismilne.com/uadforums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=2

Plenty of experts there to ask questions of.

Smag, You asked about the connections:~

The UAD-1 is a PCI card that has no connectors other than the PCI buss itself. When installed the Plug-ins that come with the card (and run on the card) become readily available via the same route as any other VST plugs - i.e throught the VST plug-in folder.

You still use the Audigy as your soundcard (or whatever you decide to replace it with).

I would say that a decision to buy a UAD-1 should come down to whether or not the Compressors you currently use are sufficient or not. There are plenty of other plugs and the reverb does have SOME nice settings but is not as good as the Classicverb on the Powercore (IMO) or the IR waves verb.

You will not be dissapointed with one as the quality of the plugs is so good. But whether you need one or not is another matter.

I should also point out that IMO it is not worth buying the Project Pak as all the good plugs that make the UAD-1 what it is don't come bundled with it. This is usually used as a cheap method of adding extra UAD-1s to a system. I would recommend the Studio Pak as a fist card as it comes with the most valuable bundle and is worht the extra ?'s.

Hope this helps,

Marytn

[Smag]

got it now, cheers Martyn, I haven't really looked into DSP accelerators previously that much. For the price of the Studio Pack, I may as well get a Creamware Pulsar to be honest. I'm going to ponder this for a bit and see what's about.

[Tomer=Trance]

well personaly i havent expirienced any problems with it

[Thompsy]

Well, I have just purchased a Yamaha 01v96 which I am very happy with. I initally had a little soundcraft analogue mixer which I do not think sounds anywhere near as good as the 01v. With regards to soundcards I have a Pulsar 2 which is very stable, I have never had any problems with (apart from my own stupid mistakes :? )
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