Wonky pots

[Timo]

I've got two potentiometers on my Indigo v1 that seem a little vulnerable, in that they wiggle about a bit loosely from side-to-side when touched. (They work perfectly fine, though).

Before I break open the manufacturers warranty seal on the bottom of the Virus to get into the chassis to see if there are any bolts or the like that can be tightened in any way, or similar, what could likely be the cause of it, and hence would it benefit me having a root around?

If it is simply just a couple of bolts that probably need tightening, I'll dive into it.

Thnx

[blay]

If it is simply just a couple of bolts that probably need tightening, I'll dive into it.


i think thats all it will be, nut i think you better wait for a more qualified response before taking her apart :wink:

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Im not sure if potentiometers are actually screwed into the circuit board. Normally potentiometers are self contained and click into place then soldered onto the circuit board. Usually the only way to get rid of wobbly knob is to replace it. You see the acutal wobbling is from within the potentiometer itself...not its connection to the circuit board. But to be honest I wouldnt worry about it....all potentiometers are designed to have a bit of give...some more than others. (hence lateral movement sometimes). The important thing is that the knob is securely attached...lateral movement does not denote a problem...its a matter of taste. EVERY synth (new and old) always had/has one or two knowbs that were wobbly. The exception being with the Nord 3 when a knob physically came off in my hand (just so happens I was trying to think of ways to get a refund hehehe)....

DS

[blay]

what did you think of the lead 3 DS?

very nearly bought one before the TI line was released :wink:

[grs]

I accidently stepped backwards on stage and bent my 'release' knob. It's wobbly now and has been working ok and I have no trouble with it. I've opened her up and it definately solderd to a ciruit board and like someone said it is just inside the pot housing that there has been some bending. I may even attemp a refit if I could match the pot.
moral of the story, dont vertically mount your virus at foot level on stage.

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

what did you think of the lead 3 DS?

very nearly bought one before the TI line was released :wink:

I used the Nord 3 and Virus KC side by side for about 3 weeks before deciding to sell the N3. This is my opinion.....

*The Virus is alot more authentic sounding then a N3. The Virus is warmer, fatter, darker and more flexible. Dont get me wrong, the N3 is an ok synth.....but it just lacked personality. I think 'bright' sounding VA's are perhaps the most digital sounding. It just depends what you prefer...

Virus = warm, dark and moody
Nord 3 = bright and digitized

*Build quality of the Virus is far superior. I dont like light materials....there not so robust. Keyboard action of Virus KB, KC, TI cannot be beaten. Knobs and buttons very good too.

*The Virus has more personality.....i.e its more recognisble. I just found the Nord 3 to be a little nothingness. FOr ?1300+ I want a synth with a trademark tone.

If you ever get the chance to comapre a N3 toa VIrus...you'll see what I mean! :wink:

DS

[blay]

thanks for your info.....

3 weeks! didnt last long next to the virus :twisted:

it something that i would still consider adding to my studio at a later date.
i like the usability - and like you say - it is good for cold, harsh a nd very digitised sounds :wink:

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

The ideal VA setup in my opinion is Virus and N3. Maybe one day ill get a nord3 again....but....synths are moving on nowadays....

If I do plunge for the TI (and looks like I will)...then id be happy to have that as my only VA....and start buying more analogs as when I can afford to. One thing that is seriously lacking in my set up is some good drum mchines :wink:

I'd like to get a genuine TR808, 909, Sequentual drumtracks, LinnDrum. The best drum macines ever!

DS

[blay]

The ideal VA setup in my opinion is Virus and N3. Maybe one day ill get a nord3 again....but....synths are moving on nowadays....

that would be my dream setup too.
its been a while since the release of the 3, and now with access upping the ante perhaps we will see a successor to the 3 sometime in the next 12 months? if not youd surely think that clavia are starting to get a little out of touch in the va market :(

[Timo]

Thanks guys, DScreams and GRS are right in that the pots are bent. I emailed Access who in turn referred me to their hardware depot, who let me know the pots would need replacing to solve the prob.
They emailed pics regards what to do, with a disclaimer saying a service person should carry it out, but I'll dive into it anyway. ;) Just need to grab said variety of pot (not the intoxicating kind), and a decent soldering iron as the one I've got is crud...

I'll post pics as/when I'll get around to doing it. ;)

### UPDATE: I HAVE SINCE RE-POTTED THE KNOBS ON THE VIRUS. - YOU CAN FIND A FULL POTTING MASTERCLASS COMPLETE WITH PICTURES: http://infekted.org/virus/showthread.php?t=31443 ###

[blay]

im interested to see how you go - i have neither the knowledge nor the balls to undertake repairs within a va like the virus (maybe with step by step instructions + accompanying pics - im not sure) :wink:

[Hollowcell]

By the way Timo, did you end up doing the custom job on those knobs you were talking about a while ago?

I ended up taking the knobs off my C to check how easily they could be replaced (cosmeticly, not the whole pots) and it's really easy as they are just half moon shaped pins.

Maybe have little mini-cars for knobs instead of the standard would be cool (maybe not so functional though 8O .

[grs]

...They emailed pics regards what to do...
Any chance of sending them on to another bent pot dude like me?
plus the info on the part needed.
thanks

[jasedee]

Can I put in a request for vibrating, massaging knobs?

How cool would that be? Especially after some hardcore tweaking!

[Juho L]

Can I put in a request for vibrating, massaging knobs?

How cool would that be? Especially after some hardcore tweaking!

Cool! I'd love to have lumberjacker's disease*!

* A work-releated injury for lumberjackers. The vibrations of a chainsaw gradually weaken the finger muscles eventually leading to a state that you can't get grip on anything.

[jasedee]

The vibrations of a chainsaw gradually weaken the finger muscles eventually leading to a state that you can't get grip on anything.
Hmmm......I think the vibrating knobs would have to be a little less powerfull than a chainsaw. Maybe like a small mobile phone buzzer thingy?

[Juho L]

Hmmm......I think the vibrating knobs would have to be a little less powerfull than a chainsaw. Maybe like a small mobile phone buzzer thingy?

A year or two back the safety of Playstation controllers were questioned when some kids got that lumberjackers disease from those vibrating controllers.

But really the vibrations has to be strong. Maybe a totally vibrating Virus... Virus LD.

[blay]

Maybe a totally vibrating Virus... Virus LD.

then my girlfriend wouldnt complain that im spending thousands on a keyboard :wink:

[Juho L]

then my girlfriend wouldnt complain that im spending thousands on a keyboard

This could lead to certain problems. Normally you would spend more time with the Virus than with your girlfriend, but now your girlfriend would spend more time with your Virus than with you.

[blay]

This could lead to certain problems. Normally you would spend more time with the Virus than with your girlfriend, but now your girlfriend would spend more time with your Virus than with you.

why not make it a threesome - then everybody wins :twisted:

[Timo]

By the way Timo, did you end up doing the custom job on those knobs you were talking about a while ago?

I ended up taking the knobs off my C to check how easily they could be replaced (cosmeticly, not the whole pots) and it's really easy as they are just half moon shaped pins.

Maybe have little mini-cars for knobs instead of the standard would be cool (maybe not so functional though 8O .

Work in progress. ;) The bumph was fairly elusive on the 'net, regards knobs that is, and most companies are naturally anally retentive about retaining trade 'secrets' about theirs which was a hinderance to an extent, but after loads of digging I've since sourced actual manufacturers directly and am currently in talks with them. ;) It depends on whether they'll allow me to do small runs as a 'prototype' (ie. sets of 32).

And yup, the knobs come off quite easily on the Virus. Sometimes, too easily!

>>Cool! I'd love to have lumberjacker's disease*! * A work-releated injury for lumberjackers. The vibrations of a chainsaw gradually weaken the finger muscles eventually leading to a state that you can't get grip on anything.

Lol, I think it's called Vibration White Finger. Same with those who use pneumatic drills to dig up concrete, or minors who dig for coal using machines while having to push hard on them. Mmm, niiiiiice.

Incidently, I used to hate the playstation joypad which vibrates in your hand from the off.

>>Hmmm......I think the vibrating knobs would have to be a little less powerfull than a chainsaw. Maybe like a small mobile phone buzzer thingy?

Maybe we can hook them up to the power-supply for a buzz, with the knobs being aluminium.... ;)

[Timo]

And the pics I received via Access' hardware office/depot, for re-pot'ing:-

This applies to the Indigo v1, so not sure if this is the same as the C series.

[Step 1 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step1.jpg)]
[Step 2 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step2.jpg)]
[Step 3 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step3.jpg)]
[Step 4 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step4.jpg)]
[Step 5 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step5.jpg)]

Disclaimer (purely to cover my own ass):- It'll void your warranty if you do it yourself, so if you don't trust the Virus in your hands get a proper, qualified serviceman to do it for you.

(Otherwise, dive in, but at own risk ;) ).


### UPDATE: LINKS EXPIRED. I HAVE SINCE RE-POTTED THE KNOBS ON THE VIRUS. - YOU CAN FIND A FULL POTTING MASTERCLASS COMPLETE WITH PICTURES: http://infekted.org/virus/showthread.php?t=31443 ###

[Juho L]

Lol, I think it's called Vibration White Finger.

The dearest child has many names.

Maybe we can hook them up to the power-supply for a buzz, with the knobs being aluminium.... ;)

That's a brilliant idea! Maybe a switch on the back for switching the buzz on and off. The we would have a nice gag function on the Virus. Just let your friend test your Virus and switch on the buzz. I bet together you laugh long and loud for the 230 volt buzz.

[Timo]

[quote]Maybe we can hook them up to the power-supply for a buzz, with the knobs being aluminium.... ;)

That's a brilliant idea! Maybe a switch on the back for switching the buzz on and off. The we would have a nice gag function on the Virus. Just let your friend test your Virus and switch on the buzz. I bet together you laugh long and loud for the 230 volt buzz.

... Especially when the guitarist or drummer tries to have a go. :)

We could wire up the casing too, controlled via a switch, so if anyone tries to put a metal beer-can on the Virus it zaps 'em silly.

A single plastic knob attached to said virus could then allow us to increase the voltage/current while said victim is, er, "attached". An LFO could be connected to the voltage output, so the victim dances in time to the Virus' 64 waveshapes. ....And a tempo knob that goes up to 400bpm.

[jasedee]

A single plastic knob attached to said virus could then allow us to increase the voltage/current while said victim is, er, "attached". An LFO could be connected to the voltage output, so the victim dances in time to the Virus' 64 waveshapes. ....And a tempo knob that goes up to 400bpm.
LMAO!!!!!!! Nice one :)

[grs]

And the pics I received via Access' hardware office/depot, for re-pot'ing:-

This applies to the Indigo v1, so not sure if this is the same as the C series.

[Step 1 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step1.jpg)]
[Step 2 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step2.jpg)]
[Step 3 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step3.jpg)]
[Step 4 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step4.jpg)]
[Step 5 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step5.jpg)]

Disclaimer (purely to cover my own ass):- It'll void your warranty if you do it yourself, so if you don't trust the Virus in your hands get a proper, qualified serviceman to do it for you.

(Otherwise, dive in, but at own risk ;) ).

I gues there are no photos of the actual repotting procedure, that was what I was expecting to see. Did they mention the part numbers or supplier? I'm going to need to replace my pot to sell my b for the TI :P

[Timo]

And the pics I received via Access' hardware office/depot, for re-pot'ing:-

This applies to the Indigo v1, so not sure if this is the same as the C series.

[Step 1 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step1.jpg)]
[Step 2 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step2.jpg)]
[Step 3 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step3.jpg)]
[Step 4 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step4.jpg)]
[Step 5 (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/data/Virus-RePot/Step5.jpg)]

Disclaimer (purely to cover my own ass):- It'll void your warranty if you do it yourself, so if you don't trust the Virus in your hands get a proper, qualified serviceman to do it for you.

(Otherwise, dive in, but at own risk ;) ).

I gues there are no photos of the actual repotting procedure, that was what I was expecting to see. Did they mention the part numbers or supplier? I'm going to need to replace my pot to sell my b for the TI :P

Mailed them yesterday, and got a reply today:-

All pots are 10Kohm linear.

Took my Indigo apart today, just to assess how difficult it was to get to the PCBs (circuit boards) that house the pots.

Took out the keybed: Without keys (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/images/Indigo/keyz.jpg)

Then detached the chassis and the end-cheeks: "Dashboard (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/images/Indigo/TT.jpg)"

It was then pretty hectic, as there are countless layers before you got to the pots, including four or five ribbon cables that needed to be logged (so you know how to correctly put them back) before disconnecting them. Once you've taken the chassis and end-cheeks off, you've basically got the whole of the electronics of the Virus underneath the knobs, in two layers, so the PCB which house the potentiometers are obviously the deepest thing to get to.

Underside of the dashboard (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/images/Indigo/internals.jpg)

..... admittedly that pic may be a little confusing, so I placed a few coloured boxes around several parts so it would be easier to understand:-

Underside of the dashboard - labelled (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/images/Indigo/internals-key.jpg)

* Red = a floating/hovering PCB that piggy backs onto the back of the main PCB board.
* Green = the mainboard (which houses the pots)
* Blue = the pitch/mod wheels

So after removing the piggy-backed board, then the mainboard from the dashboard/chassis, it looks something a little like this:-

Virus internals (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/images/Indigo/bits.jpg) - Those who are squeamish, look away now. ;)

Not a pleasant sight (although immense care was taken), but that is the disassembly required to get to the main circuit board.

The main board which houses the pots is shown at the top. The circuit board to the left flips over and piggy-backs on the back of the main board, so you have to fully remove this one before getting to the mainboard. The mainboard then needs to be unscrewed from the front of the Virus "dashboard" (remembering to take off all the knob-caps), as well as the rear of the Virus (where the audio and MIDI connections are.

So finally, the pots are shown here (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/images/Indigo/pots.jpg).

And the underside of the PCB is shown here (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/images/Indigo/underside.jpg).

...The box I've highlighted in red shows the 'footprint' of a pot, as one example, on the underside, which will require a good soldering technique and a steady hand to avoid shorting connections with regards to the four close legs.

When I do it for real, once I have the relevant components and tools, I'll take better shots with my camera, in a more fluid sequence too, so it's easier to follow. Today I was just assessing what roughly needed to be done.

Timo ;)

[tranzash]

Thanks for the pics man 8)

[grs]

Good work. I might like to ask if you have or are going to attempt your re-potting. Then show us some pics. I'm really messy with a soldering iron, stuff never looks the same after I've been inside some equipment, even though I get the job done.

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Great pics...interesting.

It does seem quite an effort to get to those pots though. How long it take you?

DS

[Timo]

Because I was being quite careful and manually logging everything so I could put everything back together without probs, it took me half an hour or so.

Now I've done it and know what to expect, I'd be able to do it in about 10mins or so. Basically it was just a case of having the courage to unscrew all the several sets of layers for the first time, and decoupling all the ribbon-cables (simple enough, but there's several of them that look identical), etc..

Getting back to the pots, here's a quick pic:

Pot 1a (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/images/Indigo/pot-large-1a.jpg)

...The part that is actually wobbly isn't the spindle itself, but the metal part surrounding the spindle that fixes the spindle to the base of the pot. I've placed a dotted line along the edge that's causing the prob, so it's easier to see:-

Pot 1b (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/images/Indigo/pot-large-1b.jpg)

From another angle:-

Pot 2a (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/images/Indigo/pot-large-2a.jpg)

...and with a dotted line again:

Pot 2b (http://www.gobo.dsl.pipex.com/images/Indigo/pot-large-2b.jpg)

Because the actual pots themselves are working flawlessly within themselves, I think I might first try injecting a little superglue in between the two little metal tabs either side of the base of the spindle using a fine needle syringe to see how that holds. And if that fails, I've lost nothing, and so then I'll then replace the pot itself as I was going to anyway.

Will need to get the components in anyhow, and it's about time I got myself a nice soldering iron and solder-sucker, etc..

Beware of crap soldering irons. And, moreso, crap solder!

### UPDATE: LINKS EXPIRED. I HAVE SINCE RE-POTTED THE KNOBS ON THE VIRUS. - YOU CAN FIND A FULL POTTING MASTERCLASS COMPLETE WITH PICTURES: http://infekted.org/virus/showthread.php?t=31443 ###

[Timo]

Got all the soldering gear today, but could I find a six-legged 10KOhm variable resistor?!... Maplins was a no-no, as was my local electronic-components shop, too.

However, I think I've sourced it on the RS website http://RSwww.com -- product code: STRK11K07 , but I'm not too sure about the spindle being of the correct dimensions (the 'flat' part of the base of the black spindle looks too high when compared with ones in the Virus PCB pics). I've just sent a mail to Access' hardware branch to query it. Otherwise I'll see if I can get it from them directly, or via Turnkey if I need to.

Updates as and when.

[Edit] The Virus pots are indeed "Alps" branded, as it, er, says it on the side of the pots! They have a code on the back 103B 105C, so I'm checking with the UK branch of Alps (www.Alps.co.uk) to identify them and see if (or where) they can be purchased.

[saba]

Interesting pictures; thank you for posting them.
________
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[MADSTATION]

Nice!

Cool topic, and cool pics :)

[Dujenwook]

Great thread indeed. :thumbsup:

[Hollowcell]

How did the superglue trial go Timo?

It's interesting that it wasn't actually the spindal of the pot that was loose though. Do you think in your Indigo's case it had some sideways force at some point?

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Interesting thread.....

Is the fact that the buttons and knobs are soldered on cause any real problems? Are they easy to unsolder?

DS

[xsdata-kc]

A quick question , those leds looks like they are mounted into a socket.. is this a correct observation or is it just spaghetti cord around the legs?? Because if so I am going to change the red ones in the virus for blue ones (yes I have checked voltages and they do match)

[jasedee]

A quick question , those leds looks like they are mounted into a socket.. is this a correct observation or is it just spaghetti cord around the legs?? Because if so I am going to change the red ones in the virus for blue ones (yes I have checked voltages and they do match)
Now that would be pretty darn cool.......

[xsdata-kc]

actually the more I think about it the more pissed of I get 2 see the push buttons and pots are all surface mounted !! Ihmo that surface mounted mechanical components lead to long term problems with not only the components but the PCB as well making things hard to fix.

anyhow

are those LEDS mounted in a socket or is that just insulation around the legs of the LEDS?

peace