TI: Too Perfect?

[grs]

I might miss the sloppyness of hardware timing, even though sample tight integration is 90% of the reason I'm getting the TI.
Maybe there will be parrameters for 'non-sync', 'midi latency' or 'arp wobble'. I can see my self adding a bit of offset and random to certain channels in Nuendo :wink:
(the other 10% is polyphony)

[jasedee]

Perhaps......Sometimes those timing 'issues' make it feel more 'human'???

[saba]

In essense, its basically the only synth you'll need. Most listeners of music aren't evangelical about how analogue a bassline sounds, or whatever. You have pretty much everything you need in a TI for electronica and pop music.

Mind you, its not like people like us will be satisfied with only a single synthesizer :)
________
Magic flight vaporizer review (http://vaporizer.org/reviews)

[jasedee]

Mind you, its not like people like us will be satisfied with only a single synthesizer :)
Very true....I need at least 10 :) and I've only got one VA, and one rompler.....I've a long way to go

[grs]

Originally I sold a Roland JD800 and two JX3P and a KAWAI K2 to get the Virus b. But back to the topic.
Another new parrameter in the new TI could be '18bit 48KHz DA emulate amount'. Don't forget that the output stage has it's own unique flavour.

[jasedee]

Whilst we're at it, why dont we add some old OS bugs, like jumpy knobs, just to make it feel like a good ol Access Virus C ;) You know, for nostalgia :)

[Hollowcell]

Whilst we're at it, why dont we add some old OS bugs, like jumpy knobs, just to make it feel like a good ol Access Virus C ;) You know, for nostalgia :)

It's only the rack that has that there trouble Jase. My desktop has wonderful knob playability - much like it's owner. Hehe, crude I know...

[blay]

My desktop has wonderful knob playability - much like it's owner.

pity about the response times eh HC :wink:

[Hollowcell]

All the latest talk about timing is really over hyped (now that you bring it up Blay).

Latency/timing only became an issue when the first softsynths hit the scene. However, there were people setting up huge daisy chains of equipment creating slopy timing, but appart from that, midi is no problem what so ever - specially if set up right.

As long as the sequncer is recording and playing back exactly what I've played going in, then that's all I need.

I can run 16 channels of midi, with over dubbed CC automation, going out to alot of different hardware while at the same time having it all synced to midi clock with no glitches at all! I'm happy enough.

The TI being too perfect? Wavetable, hypersaw, full multi-timbral functions including FX and 80 voices does sit pretty high in my books, but sample tight intergration is not that high on my list. :D

[blay]

All the latest talk about timing is really over hyped (now that you bring it up Blay).

hehe :lol:

The TI being too perfect? Wavetable, hypersaw, full multi-timbral functions including FX and 80 voices does sit pretty high in my books, but sample tight intergration is not that high on my list. :D

i absolutely agree HC. but i guess they have to fill up the press releases with something :wink:

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Perhaps......Sometimes those timing 'issues' make it feel more 'human'???

With analog gear yes....

With digital gear...more like a epileptic robot....

DS

[blay]

With digital gear...more like a epileptic robot....

:lol:

c3po on mescaline :wink:

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Yeah heheheeh :twisted:

DS

[Timo]

Talking of old skool stuff, is there any way to turn off the smooth vectors that blend between discrete CC midi values on the Virus, to induce the "stepping" that occurred with the digital synths of yore?

An MC505 sounds cool with the resonance whacked up, and then using the filter knob to slowly step between the 127 filter-cutoff midi values - effectively using it (and accentuating it) as an effect.

[ben crosland]

Talking of old skool stuff, is there any way to turn off the smooth vectors that blend between discrete CC midi values on the Virus, to induce the "stepping" that occurred with the digital synths of yore?


Yep - you'll need to do this individually for each patch though.

Check (Single) Edit> Common>SmoothMode.

Turn it Off.

-=BC

[Nigel Harkness]

Not to sound like a novice but what is "sample tight intergration"

[Timo]

Talking of old skool stuff, is there any way to turn off the smooth vectors that blend between discrete CC midi values on the Virus, to induce the "stepping" that occurred with the digital synths of yore?


Yep - you'll need to do this individually for each patch though.

Check (Single) Edit> Common>SmoothMode.

Turn it Off.

-=BC

Weh hey, nice one! Works really well too. :)

Cheers Ben.

[marc]

All the latest talk about timing is really over hyped (now that you bring it up Blay).

Latency/timing only became an issue when the first softsynths hit the scene. However, there were people setting up huge daisy chains of equipment creating slopy timing, but appart from that, midi is no problem what so ever - specially if set up right.

As long as the sequncer is recording and playing back exactly what I've played going in, then that's all I need.

I can run 16 channels of midi, with over dubbed CC automation, going out to alot of different hardware while at the same time having it all synced to midi clock with no glitches at all! I'm happy enough.

The TI being too perfect? Wavetable, hypersaw, full multi-timbral functions including FX and 80 voices does sit pretty high in my books, but sample tight intergration is not that high on my list. :D

i disagree on that. the problem with MIDI is certainly not that timing is not perfect. the problem is that timing is not predictable. i give you an example. you want a bass to sit right on the kick. with midi, there is pretty much no chance to control which event the sequencer sends first. so you add a pad to your kick/bass arrangement and suddenly, the bass i s late. then you compensate with MIDI delay but once you play a more complex chord with the pad, you bass moves again. maybe because the channel the bass is on is being send after the channel the pad is played on, maybe because you synth does priotize things differently.

perfect timing is not about taking the life out of the music. it is about a note on event remaining on the same position, no matter what you change in the arrangement.

it sounds basic but did you ever think about the reasons artist have to go through all the trouble to sample their MIDI synths and use samples instead of the actuall MIDI triggers when they arrange?

i believe that human timing (as long as the players are good) is the perfect base for a good groove. thousands of artist have proven that. but as little as you want your drummer to be off after a break you want your synth bass to hit the kick only occationally.

best, marc

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Thx Marc....good answer. OK, lets go back to CV gates.

DS

[saba]

The simple fact is that MIDI is old and survived a fair bit longer than it should have. Its only possible to do communications across it at, what was the figure, 18kbaud?

Maybe a MIDI2 one day.
________
Box vaporizer (http://boxvaporizers.com)

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Dave Smith...desingned midi to be future proof. We havent even exhausted the full capabilities of midi yet! I dont know how midi could be further improved. I think its a restriction in a lot of senses. One day music wont be made with midi.

DS

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Oh and just another thing....how can you say the TI is too perfect? If it totally illiminated menue work...i'd say you might be right :D

DS

[Hollowcell]

All the latest talk about timing is really over hyped (now that you bring it up Blay).

Latency/timing only became an issue when the first softsynths hit the scene. However, there were people setting up huge daisy chains of equipment creating slopy timing, but appart from that, midi is no problem what so ever - specially if set up right.

As long as the sequncer is recording and playing back exactly what I've played going in, then that's all I need.

I can run 16 channels of midi, with over dubbed CC automation, going out to alot of different hardware while at the same time having it all synced to midi clock with no glitches at all! I'm happy enough.

The TI being too perfect? Wavetable, hypersaw, full multi-timbral functions including FX and 80 voices does sit pretty high in my books, but sample tight intergration is not that high on my list. :D

i disagree on that. the problem with MIDI is certainly not that timing is not perfect. the problem is that timing is not predictable. i give you an example. you want a bass to sit right on the kick. with midi, there is pretty much no chance to control which event the sequencer sends first. so you add a pad to your kick/bass arrangement and suddenly, the bass i s late. then you compensate with MIDI delay but once you play a more complex chord with the pad, you bass moves again. maybe because the channel the bass is on is being send after the channel the pad is played on, maybe because you synth does priotize things differently.

perfect timing is not about taking the life out of the music. it is about a note on event remaining on the same position, no matter what you change in the arrangement.

it sounds basic but did you ever think about the reasons artist have to go through all the trouble to sample their MIDI synths and use samples instead of the actuall MIDI triggers when they arrange?

i believe that human timing (as long as the players are good) is the perfect base for a good groove. thousands of artist have proven that. but as little as you want your drummer to be off after a break you want your synth bass to hit the kick only occationally.

best, marc

Interesting points there Marc. I think this definitely varies depending on the sequencer, midi interface and the use of software alongside hardware.

I honestly don't get any timing issues at all. I must say though, when I record bass, I usually run straight to audio, or route to the sampler, but I never did this for timming though. I would do this as the gear I use for bass doesn't usually have midi. I should say though, that maybe my example of 16 midi tracks was a little over-stated though. I do tend to move to audio or the sampler far before that. :D

You mentioned about triggering samples instead - well these samples usually would be triggered by midi wouldn't they. Of course they aren't as complex and notation, but still, it's midi.

EDIT; But hype it up though Marc. I'm sure it will help the sales of the new machine. :wink:

[ben crosland]

[quote=Hollowcell]
it sounds basic but did you ever think about the reasons artist have to go through all the trouble to sample their MIDI synths and use samples instead of the actuall MIDI triggers when they arrange?
best, marc

You mentioned about triggering samples instead - well these samples usually would be triggered by midi wouldn't they. Of course they aren't as complex and notation, but still, it's midi.


I think by: 'sample their MIDI synths and use samples' Marc means 'record them to an audio track in the sequencer' ;)

To be honest, I think that the 'sample accurate' timing of the TI is going to be one of those features that is polarised by the needs of different kinds of musicians. Personally, my ears are not nearly so sensitive to timing discrepancies as they are to some - on the other hand the friend with whom I make music is the musical equiavalent to the 'Princess and the Pea' - i.e. he can't even listen to a working arrangement until the beats are perfectly locked in with each other. So, indirectly, sample-accuracy will be something I will come to really appreciate in the TI ;)

[Juho L]

Its only possible to do communications across it at, what was the figure, 18kbaud?

31.25 kbaud. The basic MIDI is indeed really outdated (released in 1982 maybe?). Although it can handle the basic stuff like controllers, notes, etc, but it gets stuck if you feed MIDI clock and other heavy continuous stuff. By the way isn't MIDI2 already standardised? Long time ago I saw an article in Keyboard about MIDI2, but I don't remember any details.

[Timo]

Wasn't Yamaha's "mLan" ever meant to take over?

With the speed and girth of bandwidth of firewire (effectively mLan) and USB2 readily available, already with a huge user-base, there's a massive opportunity to update to a better standard.

Five-pin DINs on synths and stuff could still be retained for backwards compatibilty, of course.

Access have done well in that regard, imho. With their smoothing of CC data to avoid the 'stepping' which was available from the outset (albeit being part of their innovative synth programming and design, rather than changing the MIDI standard), and now using USB to transfer MIDI and several channels of audio.

[Blank]

Some of you guys are pretty insane with this "analogue" thing...I personally spend more time writting a good piece instead of tryin to make digital equipment sound analogue...because if you truely truely think about it any fans that you might have dont care...they like your arrangements, not your equipment :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

I personally dont have sync/timing problems anymore and i am glad...that was a pain in the ass...

peace
Blank

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Is it a simple task for Access to upgrade the USB specs? if so...then maybe they should do it...just to get you techno nerds off their backs :lol:

DS :o

[Hollowcell]

just to get you techno nerds off their backs :lol:

DS :o

Hehehe. :lol:

Nice.

[Nigel Harkness]

Easy there DS.

Techno nerds are people too.

[jasedee]

Easy there DS.

Techno nerds are people too.
And they have feelings.....

[drewkeys]

It'd be really hard for any of us to make the argument that we're not techno nerds... I mean, the main thing that we have in common is that we hang out on a synthesizer discussion group! Sounds pretty cool, eh? 8)

I know I'd rather talk about oscillators and the fast fourier transform than about cars and sports! hehe

[Blank]

actually forums on the computer are just digital representations of the real thing...A collection of ppl getting together to converse...thats like saying your a nerd or wierd because you use a cell phone rather than send a letter!!

peace
Blank

[Onkel Dunkel]

Times change. Not many years ago poeple were thought to be desperate if they looked for dates on the internet. Now it?s quite normal (where i come from). In a couple of years the "nerd" might be the one who sends letters istead of e-mails :?

[3o3]

actually forums on the computer are just digital representations of the real thing

I agree with you there Blank; But this however is probably one step better since here we could all meet people from all over the world.

But on the subject; i don't think the TI is perfect -> i think its getting really close and i love the way access took the first step. I'd love the idea of acctually just having _one_ synthesizer instead of 10 (but however, i'd wish i had 10) but just with the possibilities.

Add an laptop-computer = instant studio. It's like Reason/Storm but in hardware-storm. All access gotta do is give us an sampler or an Access Virus Ti-s with exactly the same spec but with an built in sampler. But it uses it USB-port to load samples so you don't need to mess around with SCSI or anything and it comes with a 512ram installed or something like that and you could upgrade it to 2gig.

Hey they could throw in an ROMpler while they are at it; then they are getting abit close to perfection in my eyes

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Easy there DS.

Techno nerds are people too.

Of course.....it was only meant as a joke.

DS :wink:

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Im an 80's and 90's whore.

Hmmm speaking of which,,,,can anyone here remember that two year period of brit pop '95-'97. Ah....thank god that period didnt last longer than it did hehe. Funny enough I met my girlfriend at a nightclub called the Haunted Hanger. Litrally an old disused airfield hanger near Thame......listening to the likes of BBE 'Seven Days One Week' etc.

Ahh.......

Too bad my relationship ended after 5 years.

DS

[3o3]

Urk - brit pop? I am still trying to forget about that music.

[Blank]

yeah that didnt end here... 8O ITS STILLLL GoInG!!! :?


peace
Blank

[Timo]

What would perfect it for me is a ribbon-controller, or XY pad. An extra couple of EGs wouldn't go astray either. Along with Jupe/TB filters. ;) Mebbe even a jog-dial for speedy patch selection in standalone mode.

Also an XY joystick (as on the Trinity/Triton) instead of wheels, but that's just a personal thing.

BTW, BBE 7 days one week rocked. Classic era that, along with Born Slippy, Wink - HSOC, Professional Widow, Ripgroove, Firestarter, Salva Mea, etc... ahhhhh, them days, them days!!....... smokey clubs, bangin house music, pissed as a nut, bliss...

[Blank]

I need to go to a good show!!!
Preferrably one im playing in!!

peace
Blank