I'm having trouble setting up a multi-mode patch...

[AlexHall74]

Hello all,

I have been trying to setup a multi mode patch for a couple of weeks now and am getting a bit frustrated.

I am using a Virus KC.

The manual only covers multi-mode with a few brief paragraphs on page 42. On page 110 Multi-Mode parameters are discussed but again, briefly. There are no step by step instructions.

I wish to setup a simple multi mode by having the Virus play two or three patches at once via the multi.

The patches I wish to use are D87 Prions, A123 Vindicator, and then play around with various third tones.

I have been doig the following:

1. Press Multi
2. Navigate to a blank Multi that says "Overture" (M11)
3. Press Multi and Single together to enter Multi-Single Mode
4. Assign D87 (Prions) to m1
5. Press the PART button to get to m2.
6. Assign A123 (Vindicator) to m2.

PROBLEMS:

A. Prions sounds nothing like it does in Single Mode. it is choppy and very reduced. I tried tweaking the knobs and it only sounded worse (If in Single Mode D87 Prions sounds cool with no manipulation of soft knobs or filters, when I go to it in Multi Mode it sounds like crap!).

B. When I assign A123 to m2 it sounds fine; but I can't hear the two tones play together. Do I have to STORE the Multi Patch before they will play together?

C. The tempo of the patches in Multi Mode is slower than how each patch sounds in Single Mode.

What do I have to do to get these two patches to play simultaneously and for each patch to sound as it does in Single Mode?

Is there a good textbook that covers Access Virus programming in great detail as opposed to the reductionist verse of the manual?

Thanks for any info on this one.

Regards,

-AlexHall74

[Onkel Dunkel]

You must set the parts to use the same midi-channel if you want to layer the sounds. If not you will only hear the part (or midi-channel) you selected.

About the sound sounding bad; Have you checked that it has the same reverb/delay-settings in single- and multi-mode? In multi-mode you only have one choice of reverb/delay-setting and one send pr. part. You may find that one sound uses reverb in single mode but then uses delay instead because the multi uses delay. You can use the funtion "copy reverb/delay from single" witch will (as it says) copy the reberb/delay-parameters from the single. Of course you may then find that the other sound dosn?t sound as intended instead :? In the new TI?s this won?t be a problem since it has seperate reverb/delay-settings pr. part...

[AlexHall74]

Thanks for the reply Onkel Dunkel,

Your response clarifies a few things but raises other questions:

You must set the parts to use the same midi-channel if you want to layer the sounds. If not you will only hear the part (or midi-channel) you selected.

OK, Here is my biggest problem; I cannot figure out how to properly setup a Multi-Mode, period. The manual is way too brief in my opinion. I am able to toggle between different MIDI channels with the PART buttons, and able to assign different patches to each channel, but:

HOW DO I LAYER MULTIPLE PATCHES TO ONE MIDI CHANNEL? Did I totally miss this in the manual?

About the sound sounding bad; Have you checked that it has the same reverb/delay-settings in single- and multi-mode?

No, I have not, and thinking about it tells me you are right. The Prions patch by default has a lot of delay in Single Mode, but in Multi it has none. I assigned the Pad sound (A123) to channel one and then Prions (D87) to channel 2. Channel 1 sounded just like in Single mode. Channel 2 sounded like crap. I believe you are correct; I will look into this once at home.

OTHER QUESTIONS:

(1) How do I save a Multi once I have set it up? Do I just hit the STORE button? Somehow this did not work last night...

(2) This might seem like a dumb question, but, what is the point of creating a Multi where each sound is on a different channel if only one can be heard at a time? This seems to limit the whole concept of multi-timbrality...

(3) Does the virus KC save over patches in banks A and B as other Viruses do (I have read this in other posts)?

AND FINALLY...

(4) Is there a book other than the user manual that gives some step by step instructions and more detail than the manual?

I looked on Amazon.com but did not find one. I really think the manual sucks. :x Maybe because I am new to synths and don't have the background concepts down like a veteran synth player but I do understand the basics of filters, LFOs, soundwaves, oscillators, FM, etc. It just seems like there is a huge lack of material dedicated to explaining how to make the Virus do what it was designed to do.

Thanks again for your insight! Some of this is making sense to me now.

-AlexHall74

[Onkel Dunkel]

OK, Here is my biggest problem; I cannot figure out how to properly setup a Multi-Mode, period. The manual is way too brief in my opinion. I am able to toggle between different MIDI channels with the PART buttons, and able to assign different patches to each channel, but:

HOW DO I LAYER MULTIPLE PATCHES TO ONE MIDI CHANNEL? Did I totally miss this in the manual?

> Select multi-mode
> Press "system/multi edit"
> Press "parameter" until the display says "midichannel" and a number
> Select the part (by pressing"part") you want to assign a midi-channel for
> Select the midi-channel you want to use for this part


(1) How do I save a Multi once I have set it up? Do I just hit the STORE button? Somehow this did not work last night...

When multi-mode selected; press "store"

(2) This might seem like a dumb question, but, what is the point of creating a Multi where each sound is on a different channel if only one can be heard at a time? This seems to limit the whole concept of multi-timbrality...

No no, not at all. I use it when using a sequenser. Then i can play up to 16 different sounds simultaniusly on 16 different channels.

(3) Does the virus KC save over patches in banks A and B as other Viruses do (I have read this in other posts)?

Yes, you can owerwrite patches in bank A and B. Bank C-H can be owerwritten too but only a whole bank at the time.

(4) Is there a book other than the user manual that gives some step by step instructions and more detail than the manual?

Don?t know. I found great use of the user-manual. It can be a little cryptic sometimes but in big terms it explains the funtions of the virus. Theres also the sound programming tutorial that came with the Virus (programming analouge synth - virus tutorial by howard scarr) witch can be helpfull. I belive all the questions you ask here is answared in the user-manual. If you don?t find the answer in the manuals it?s no shame to ask :wink:

[AlexHall74]

Thank you very much for the detailed responses Onkel Dunkel!

I have printed this thread and will take it home tonight to execute it.

I will also try to read through the corresponding sections in the user manual and compare it to your responses.

Maybe my problem is interpreting the text in the manual; maybe I'm just dense! 8O

At any rate I really appreciate your time and input!

I'll re-post in this thread and let you know how all this worked out in a day or two.

Regards,

-AlexHall74

[Onkel Dunkel]

Glad i could help :mrgreen:

[AlexHall74]

I still can't get Multi-mode to work.

I read the manual an it said Sounddiver has a help function.
Does anyone know if the help function in Souinddiver is any good?

Does the Access site have a help feature?

I'll keep trying in the mean time.

Ciao!

-AlexHall74

[jasedee]

Multi should be very easy to work with.....

If you have your MIDI life sorted....

Set up 16 different MIDI channels in your sequencer, numbered sequentially from MIDI channel 1-16 (if you want 16 different sounds seperately)

Now, for each part on the virus (of which there are 16 per multi) choose a different sound

Go back to your sequencer, hit "Record enable/ready" on one of the 16 MIDI channels, and record something.

Now enable a different MIDI channel, and hit "Rec.Enable/ready" and record a new sound

If you want layering of different patches, just choose the patches, and in Multi-single mode choose the same MIDI output for those patches you want layered...

There are also a few settings for your Virus for best use with a sequencer. All info is in the manual...

Good luck!!!

:)

[AlexHall74]

Hey Jasedee,

My problem is that I cannot get more than one sound to play at the same time on the same channel.

I followed Onkel Dunkel's instructions below last night:

Onkel Dunkel wrote:
> Select multi-mode
> Press "system/multi edit"
> Press "parameter" until the display says "midichannel" and a number

Alex:
[THE DISPLAY LOOKS LIKE THIS NOW:]
1 MIDI
GlobalChan 1<

> Select the part (by pressing"part") you want to assign a midi-channel for

Alex:
[EVERY TIME I PRESS PART THE MIDI CHANNEL INCREASES BY +1]

> Select the midi-channel you want to use for this part



OK, here is where I am stuck.
If I press the PART keys the MIDI channels go up or down
If I press the VALUE keys the GlobalChan goes up or down.

How in the hell do I select the patch I wish to assign to any of these channels?

I don't want to assign a different patch to 16 different channels.
I want to make two or three sounds play at the same time with the pressing of on key; so I only need one MIDI channel, right?

DO I have to get into Multi-Single Mode to do this?

Right now I am in Multi Mode, it seems this is the mode to use with a sequencer if I am assigning different sounds to differnet channels.

Does this make any sense?

Sorry for being a blockhead!

I'm sure once I understand this I will fell liek a complete dipshit for taking so long to figure it out.

Time to mess with the manual some more...

PISS!!! :x

-ALexHall74

[Onkel Dunkel]

[THE DISPLAY LOOKS LIKE THIS NOW:]
1 MIDI
GlobalChan 1<


Here?s the problem. The display should say: Midichannel 1< and NOT: GlobalChan 1<

[AlexHall74]

OK; BIG DIFFERENCE!

I will make note of this and execute your earlier instructions once again:

I also got this message from Access regarding this issue; please tell me what you think of thier response:

ACCESS SUPPORT WROTE:

Hello Alex,

Thank you for your mail.
I'm very sorry but there is no additional documentation available for the Virus, especially when it
comes to use the Virus' Multimode.

I recommend to use the Multi Program M0 "Sequencer", since this one is already preprogrammed for
having each PART on a different Midi Channel. This Multi Program has PART 1 on Midi Channel 1,
PART 2 on Midi Channel 2 and so on.
Probably you should use this particular Mulit Program to start with.

Here's some additonal information on the Multimode in general:

To be able to play the Virus multitimbrally, you need to switch to MULTIMODE first. Here you can
switch sounds and setup the Multi Program by simply entering the CTRL Menu (Virus "a" or b series)
or the SYSTEM/MULTI EDIT menu (Virus c series).
Here you switch between the different menu entries with the PARAMETER buttons while you can
change the parameters with the VALUE knob or VALUE buttons. With the PART buttons (in case you're
using the Virus b or c models) you can switch between the up to 16 PARTs in Multimode and change
the settings for each part (sound selection, volume, Midi Channel, Output, Transpose, Key Range
etc.).

Whenever you're done with setting up your Multi Program make sure to save it by pushing the STORE
button. Now you can change the memory position and name with the help of the PARMAETER and
VALUE buttons.

It is even easier to choose different sounds for the different PARTs by switching to the MULTI-
SINGLE-MODE. This mode is nearly exactly the same than the MULTIMODE, but the display shows the
selected Single-Sound per Part, not the name and number of the select MULTI PROGRAM.

Thank god I have this weekend to really get into this process and try to solve it. I lvoe what my board can do in single mode. I can't imagine how cool it sounds playing multiple timbres.

Thanks for your help Onkel Dunkel!

-AlexHall74

[Onkel Dunkel]

I also got this message from Access regarding this issue; please tell me what you think of thier response:

I think they misunderstood you. You wanted to layer sounds right? I think that Access thinks that you want to use each part on a different MIDI-channel in a sequenser (did that make sence :? ). At least that?s what you want to use "M0 sequenser" for. If you want to layer sounds you need them on the same MIDI-channel. If you want to listen to some examples of sound-layering try some of the other multies from the factory sound bank...

[AlexHall74]

YOU ARE CORRECT!

I WANT TO LAYER SOUNDS; SO TO DO SO...


Onkel Dunkel; this is from your earlier instructions...
>Select multi-mode
> Press "system/multi edit"
> Press "parameter" until the display says "midichannel" and a number

Alex:
[SHOULD THE DISPLAY LOOKS LIKE THIS NOW:]
1 MIDI
Midichannel 1<

NOW TO SELECT THE PARTS TO PLAY AT THE SAME TIME...

> Select the part (by pressing"part") you want to assign a midi-channel for

> Select the midi-channel you want to use for this part (DON'T ALL PARTS HAVE TO BE ON HE SAME MIDI CHANNEL IF ALL THREE PARTS ARE TO BE PLAYED AT THE SAME TIME???)

Does this seem like it will work?

Should I save the patch the same way as you specified before?
Does it automatically get saved in the edit buffer?

Regards,

-AlexHall74

[mcoyote]

Actually, I think the information you need was covered here:

...HOW DO I LAYER MULTIPLE PATCHES TO ONE MIDI CHANNEL? Did I totally miss this in the manual?

> Select multi-mode
> Press "system/multi edit"
> Press "parameter" until the display says "midichannel" and a number
> Select the part (by pressing"part") you want to assign a midi-channel for
> Select the midi-channel you want to use for this part...

[AlexHall74]

OK, I tried this but used GlobalChan 1< so maybe it did not work; I still have a question:

mcoyote wrote:
>Select the part (by pressing"part") you want to assign a midi-channel for

I ONLY WANT ONE MIDI CHANNEL IF I WANT ALL PARTS TO PLAY AT ONCE, RIGHT?

> Select the midi-channel you want to use for this part... (AGAIN, ALL PARTS SHOULD USE THE SAME MIDI CHANNEL TO PLAY AT ONCE RIGHT? ALSO, How does the Virus display that three Parts are assigned to one Midi channel?

For instance...

M1
Prions+Star PAD+Vindicator

I'm sorry if I am writing this in a confusing manner it is just difficult for me to think out exactly how the thinkg is layed out and how it responds to sequential commands as such.

I really appreciate this input as ultimately, somehow it will all help me achieve the desired result this weekend.

Have I obscured anything with this info?

-AlexHall74

[Onkel Dunkel]

Think of it this way. Your keyboard only transmits on one MIDI-channel at time. Lets say that this is channel 1 (witch it proberbly is). This means that ALL the sounds you want to hear should be set to MIDI-channel 1 and all the sounds you DON?T want to hear should be set to anything else than Channel 1.

[AlexHall74]

That is a sobering closing thought to this monster thread!

I will read this over and try to execute these instructions until I get it to work.

I'll re-post when I get this to work.

Thank you gentlemen for all your help and please have a fun, safe, and interesting weekend!

Ciao! :D

-AlexHall74

[Panopticon]

Are you using Soundiver? Multi-mode is much easier to get your head around with a everything represented on one screen at one time. Programming with Soundiver is a breeze. There have been others who've had issues with it, but I've never had one, and I use it for all my programming and MIDI library needs.

[jasedee]

Yeah.....Sound Diver ROCKS!!!!!

[AlexHall74]

Hey Jasedee and Panoptican!

I have not loaded up Sound Diver yet.
(DUHHHHH!! Stupid, impatient American!)

I am loading it up now.

I much prefer a PC interface to a 1" by 3" monochrome screen.

I'll try the info posted above since so much effort was put into delivering it to me and then try the Sound Diver route.

There is more than one way to skin a cat; the more ways you know the better as circumstances will ultimately vary in the field.

Thanks mates!

-AlexHall74

[Hollowcell]

No need to use Sounddiver...

The way I do it is (I'm on a C and is the same as Onkel, but I'll include a few more details):

Once in Multi-single mode (or Multi-mode I guess).

Press System Edit and scroll through until you can read Midi chanel * in the botton half of the screen.

Turn the data knob to select what ever midi channel you want for that part. Starting from part 1 would be the easiest. The part number is in the top left of the Virus screen.

I'd sugest chosing midi channel 1.

Then press the right part button. This will move you to the next part (part 2), but still leave the midi channel selection page in the screen. Chose midi channel 1 for this part too.

Continue to the next part and change the midi channel to 1. So on and so on until you have all 16 parts playing from the same midi channel (if infact you want to layer 16 sounds at once that is).

Once you have this setup, it's easy for you to go through and select which patches you want to have layered, or just just change one patch at a time with-in the layer.

Hope that helps mate.

I'd say it's much quiker and easier than booting up sounddiver.

[Juho L]

No need to use Sounddiver...

The way I do it is (I'm on a C and is the same as Onkel, but I'll include a few more details):

Once in Multi-single mode...

...easier than booting up sounddiver.

And remember that if you want to play the layered sound from keyboard, you'll have to activate it (atleast on my kB on the menu there were "Part active" option which had to be turned on before the ?ayered sound played).

[AlexHall74]

OK Juho L and Hollowcell;

I am closer...

Although I'm sure Sound Diver is a cool tool; I want to figure this one out first via the KC directly.

I was able to set up a multi yesterday as specified by Hollowcell; the tricky part was assigning a patch to each part.

I kept getting lost because Iwould hit the Parameter button to look for the part and that would take me out of the Multi I was setting up and +/- into a new one depending on which Parameter button I hit.

I am clsoe gentlemen!

I will begin my experiments after I walk my dog here shortly...

Thank you again for the tips and information!

I really appreciate it!

-AlexHall74

[Onkel Dunkel]

...the tricky part was assigning a patch to each part.

If you use Multi/Single mode you can assign a patch to the active part as if you where in Single mode and then change the part (by pressing "Part") and then select a new patch etc.

Example:

- Set up the parts MIDI-channels as descibed earlier.
- Press "Multi" and "Single" simultanously to enter multi single mode.
- Select part 1.
- Select disired patch for part 1.
- Select part 2.
- Select disired patch for part 2.
- Select part 3
- Select disired patch for part 3
- Etc.

You get the point...

[jasedee]

How'd u get on with the whole Multi saga????

Hope u got it sorted, I cant imagine not being able to work out Multi-mode when using a sequencer. It surely would suck

[AlexHall74]

Hey Jasedee!

To be quite honest I have been a slack bastard at resolving this one!

I have no excuse! :x

Basically I have had very little time to better learn how to use my Virus KC.

My second daughter was born five weeks ago and the house has been crawling with relatives since (mother in-law, my mom, father-in-law+his new wife, AAAACK!)

Now they are gone and peace shall return to my home.

I have a much better understanding of how multi-mode works because of all the genereous responses in this thread and have attempted to setup my desired multi quite a few times in the course of this thread; I have just been de-railed as a result of these recent events. (My father-in-law and his wife just left this morning!)

The baby is doing great, my wife is doing great, that is what's really important.

My wife and I had a chat and she asked me if I could block off Saturday and Sunday mornings to let her go and workout at the gym so she can get back into shape (she's a jock too) and lose the last few pounds of the additional pregnancy weight (her belly is already flat only 5 weeks later, YEAH!!).

I told her that I would be happy to do so, but that I would like some uniterrupted, dedicated time on the weekends as well to work in my project studio. She agreed, so each weekend I now have a 2 hour block on Saturday and Sunday to freak out with my Virus, guitars, DAW, etc.

It's all about give and take (relationships) and persistence (learning how to use the Virus!).

Thank you for reminding me to finish what I started; this post is back on my radar now that the waters of my life have calmed!

Take care Jasedee! :D

-AlexHall74

[Onkel Dunkel]

Congrats with the new member of your family :D

[AlexHall74]

Thank you Onkel Dunkel!

She is an angel; I am very lucky to have her!

Thank God she has been healthy and she is eating well.

We are all a little tired from sleepless nights but week by week she is getting closer to being on a schedule.

I am definitely a proud Dad. :D

I might have to schedule a "mental health" day at my office so I can stay home and keep hacking athi Multi-mode. :twisted:

I promise I will not let all the good advice offered to me here go to waste; it is all very much appreciated.

How have you been Onkel Dunkel; is all well?

-AlexHall74

[3o3]

Congratulations on the new family member there Alex!

[AlexHall74]

Thanks again Bro!

She is awake now; she just barfed on me! 8O

The blessings of fatherhood are many. :wink:

Cheers!

-AlexHall74

[3o3]

Bwahaha - tell her to take it easy on the drink. Nah, just kidding mate

[AlexHall74]

3o3 wrote:
Bwahaha - tell her to take it easy on the drink. Nah, just kidding mate

HAA! :lol: :lol:

Thank God this is mother's milk coming up!

I'll have to save your version of the lecture for when she's older; who knows when the first beer overdose will occur these days...

...mine was at 6! 8O

-AlexHall74

[AlexHall74]

I GOT IT TO WORK!!!!!

MUHA HAAAAA HAAA HAAAAA!!!!!

I read this over and approached it with a fresh (and less frustrated) mind and it worked like a charm.

No all I have to do is experiment to yield my first really cool Multis!

Thank you all for taking the time to give me so much detail in your replies, and thank you Jasedee for getting this post back in my head the other day.

YOU ALL ROCK!!! 8)

Cheers!

-AlexHall74

[3o3]

I'll have to save your version of the lecture for when she's older; who knows when the first beer overdose will occur these days...

Hehe, I am very wise man indeed. I just cant understand why noone eelse things that.

[/quote]...mine was at 6![/quote]

Wow, early age. Not even i did drink at that age except for an glass of cola every now and then

[AlexHall74]

3o3 wrote:
Hehe, I am very wise man indeed. I just cant understand why noone eelse things that.

You and I have the same problem! :wink:

AlexHall74 wrote:
...mine was at 6!

3o3 wrote:
Wow, early age. Not even i did drink at that age except for an glass of cola every now and then

My brother is 10 years older than me and quite an evil bastard. He contributed to my delinquency and then I took it into my own hands. :twisted:

We attended the birthday party of a family friend, her name was Gabi, she was 16; I was 6. My brother had the hots for her but was too chicken shit to talk to her. There was a big table with glasses of champagne arranged on it all orderly, row after row, free for the taking.

I figured why not, it's a birthday right? I had three glasses and proceeded to get shitty. Suddenly I realized Gabi was a hottie so I walked over to where she was sitting and started dropping my 6 year old pick up lines on her. I think the whole room was in tears over my audacity and shocked by the fact that I was staggering as well.

After I had my way with Gabi I proceeded to get airlifted out of the party by my mother. I seem to remember her giving me a lecture on the way home. I threw up on our driveway and woke up with a massive hangover. My Dad made me play in my little league soccer game that morning to get the point across that partying has its price.

Even so, I got to hit on a hot 16 year old. :D

-AlexHall74

[3o3]

Hoho, that's an great story there mate.

It cheered me up, and it made me want to drink a beer even more.

[AlexHall74]

Cheers! 8)

Now back to Multi-Mode!

MUHHAA HAAA HAAAAAAA!!!!!

-AlexHall74

[Onkel Dunkel]

Glad to hear that you got the multi-mode working :D

[AlexHall74]

Onkel Dunkel,

Thank you for spearheading this post.

Your efforts are much appreciated; they facilitated my understanding of this function of the Virus C.

Thank you!

-AlexHall74

How is the new filter apparatus you just bought working out?

[Onkel Dunkel]

Thank you for spearheading this post.

No problem :wink:

How is the new filter apparatus you just bought working out?

Evil :twisted: Lots of warmth. Gritty and dirty. Has a life of it?s own. I love it :mrgreen: Check it out on www.sherman.be