Pc Bashing

[xsdata-kc]

I really don't uderstand all those smug mac users!!
Yes maybe a few years ago a Mac was more stable than a Pc as your Audio machine, but these days I would say that the Pc is just as stable (if not more!)
I run a AMD 3200 with 1 gig ddr ram, 120 gig sata drive Asus A78nx-e deluxe mobo that i put togther myself and it hasn't missed a beat! It hasn't crashed once, its easy to use, its fast, costs a lot less than the same mac setup, easily uprgadeable etc etc .. I watched in the local computer shop there Mac crash twice while loading the new pro-tools 6.7, I installed it hassle free. The amount of people using the Pc makes finding information very easy, and software even easier :wink: INFACT I think its the PC owners who should be feeling smug these days!!

I own an apple ipod and I chuckled when I read the manual. Apple seems to like to flatter its users! :roll: :lol:

[Juho L]

This subject has been gone through several times. This is like discussions about religion. Hoho.

You're right. The power differences are non-existent and the stability is now not a problem anymore on PC. So the selection is nowadays more like a matter of what you're used to use. Of course Mac and Apple have a that elite reputation like "The pro's use Macs" and unfortunately that shows too much in the price.

Edit: I own an apple ipod and I chuckled when I read the manual. Apple seems to like to flatter its users!

Is this one of those leaflets that refers to the customer in "Our appreciated and the most glorious customer"? I've noticed that on Behringer manuals there's a same thing. Always fun to read a manual that's written like it's written by a peasant to a king. ?hih.

[jasedee]

Im so tempted....... :)

But anyways, I agree with you 8O

A PC can be just as stable, reliable, powerful etc as Mac OS.

All I have is my own experiences with the two platforms, and there have been some bad ones on PC, even on "custom" audio PC's built by super-nerds.

Anyways, it's all up to the individual, and what he/she is comfortable with. Product preference and the whole "my shit is better than your shit" is nothing new either, just people stroking their egos ;)

So yeah, if u see me PC bashing around here, just know it is all in the name of a larf!

[Tomer=Trance]

there are tons of stuff that are designed for mac only which are worth geting a mac just for them on the other hand you will also see mac users get a pc just to run NI stuff like reaktor and such.
this works for both sides each one has its own addventage.

[Juho L]

there are tons of stuff that are designed for mac only which are worth geting a mac just for them

Hmm... Isn't it other way around? At least I haven't confronted a software that's Mac only (except Logic).

[3o3]

Since i used both mac and pc - i can say this - i haven't had a good experiencee with either of them.

However treat them right; they will probably be as equally good. the thing is just from what you like these days - you like osX - great! you like XP - great!
Tweak them right and you got a really nice basic setup for you studio

[Juho L]

Since i used both mac and pc - i can say this - i haven't had a good experiencee with either of them.

Hehe. The Unlucky Alf of Sweden.

[3o3]

Hehe. The Unlucky Alf of Sweden.

For sure althou -> Soon my undead legion of computers will do my bidding, just alitlle more electric shocks and i am set.


FEAR ME!!

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Ive used dell for many years. Never had a problem with them. Very reliable....but then again ive never used a mac. Macs dont really appeal to me....i think they are grossly over priced.

Get yourself a Dell with P4 2Ghz, 1gig RAM, 120Gib HD (8mb buffer) and a Delta 10/10 and you'll be sorted for years.

all for ?850

DS

[Merlot]

once again, WHO CARES!!!!

Whatever you are using is fine as long as it gets the job done for you. If you can live with using a mac, good. Same goes with a PC. All that matters is the end result, and that is MUSIC!!!!!!!!

[blay]

once again, WHO CARES!!!!

that and you avatar sums it up for me :lol:

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

A friend of mine has just bought a Carillon AC1 computer. Now i think this would be defined as a PC as it runs on Windows XP Professional. Is it the operating system that defines what a PC is? Well anyway, suffice to say it rocks.....

DS

[Panopticon]

Hmm... Isn't it other way around? At least I haven't confronted a software that's Mac only (except Logic).

Digital Performer (IMO the best sequencer out there), Altiverb, DSP Quattro, Filterscape, and Zebra are a few of the good ones you can't pick up for PC.

I'm a musician/producer (professional), and I use a Mac because the thing just works (ooh, and I also can't stand Windows). I don't want to build a custom audio machine from the ground up and have to research everything to find out what's going to work and what's not. I'd rather just boot up and start working. And I love my Mac. But if someone else is happy doing the PC route, more power to them; as long as it doesn't get in your way, use it. I really don't care what other people use, but I know where I'm staying...

[Juho L]

That DS's post made me thing: What are the actual architechtural differences between Mac and PC?

[Hollowcell]

once again, WHO CARES!!!!

that and you avatar sums it up for me :lol:

Third that....

[XLR8A]

That DS's post made me thing: What are the actual architechtural differences between Mac and PC?
They almost the same, mostly same components innit, the biggest difference
is the way of communication between operating system and the hardware.

[XLR8A]

I really don't uderstand all those smug mac users!!
Yes maybe a few years ago a Mac was more stable than a Pc as your Audio machine, but these days I would say that the Pc is just as stable (if not more!)
I hear this from pc people since 1995, as far as i remember. :lol:

[matsa]

Jesus! A mac/pc flame war! Last time I saw one I still had a 32 inch waist and hair.
:roll:

[Timo]

I'm waiting to see (laugh) at the G5 Powerbook.... Whenever it gets around to being released, that is.

Apparently it has massive heat issues, and has already been put back a year:- :lol:

http://leppak.name/images/g5-pb.jpg

http://www.mactime.ru/mactime_img/upload/Media/1835.jpg

Ahhh, all I have to say is DOTHAN! (pentium-m/centrino)

And by the time the G5 Powerbook comes out... 3GHZ DUAL-CORE 64-BIT YONAH!! (pentium-m/centrino)

[Tomer=Trance]

Hmm... Isn't it other way around? At least I haven't confronted a software that's Mac only (except Logic).

Digital Performer (IMO the best sequencer out there), Altiverb, DSP Quattro, Filterscape, and Zebra are a few of the good ones you can't pick up for PC.
...

accualy a beta version of filterscape has just been released for pc
it sounds great!

[AlexHall74]

Juho wrote:
That DS's post made me thing: What are the actual architechtural differences between Mac and PC?

The fundamental difference is that between RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computer=MAC) and CISC (Complex Instrucion Set Computer=PC) chip design.

Apparently the two are becoming more alike anyway which fuels the original argument of this post that the machines are becoming essentially equivalent in power/stability.

Here is a good excerpt from webopoedia.com:

Pronounced risk, acronym for reduced instruction set computer, a type of microprocessor that recognizes a relatively limited number of instructions. Until the mid-1980s, the tendency among computer manufacturers was to build increasingly complex CPUs that had ever-larger sets of instructions. At that time, however, a number of computer manufacturers decided to reverse this trend by building CPUs capable of executing only a very limited set of instructions. One advantage of reduced instruction set computers is that they can execute their instructions very fast because the instructions are so simple. Another, perhaps more important advantage, is that RISC chips require fewer transistors, which makes them cheaper to design and produce. Since the emergence of RISC computers, conventional computers have been referred to as CISCs (complex instruction set computers).
There is still considerable controversy among experts about the ultimate value of RISC architectures. Its proponents argue that RISC machines are both cheaper and faster, and are therefore the machines of the future. Skeptics note that by making the hardware simpler, RISC architectures put a greater burden on the software. They argue that this is not worth the trouble because conventional microprocessors are becoming increasingly fast and cheap anyway.

To some extent, the argument is becoming moot because CISC and RISC implementations are becoming more and more alike. Many of today's RISC chips support as many instructions as yesterday's CISC chips. And today's CISC chips use many techniques formerly associated with RISC chips.

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/R/RISC.html

[audiofunktion]

Well, the difference USED to be that one was RISC, and one was CISC, but mac is now switching to intel chips, and they will hit the market in about a year(although you TI users know about how the "ship date" can lag)

the G5 was sucking too much power, and Apple is basically trying to take down Microsoft. More power to them i say!

I am a computer nerd by trade, and the PowerPC chip was the reason i was saving to buy a mac... Now? who knows, who cares, i'll take the best deal and run with it!

[Timo]

Since March, I believe the G5 laptop has been pulled totally. Ie. there isn't going to be one, due to heat issues.

the G5 was sucking too much power, and Apple is basically trying to take down Microsoft.

Shouldn't that have been re-phrased....

the G5 sucked too much power and further development would otherwise have been completely futile, so Apple is basically forced into trying to take on Microsoft instead

? :)

The Intel roadmap is looking good, though. Especially the evolution of the Centrinos. It will be great to see what Apple do with them, too.

Windows and OSX will be truly comparable. The wars have just started!! (Great for consumers)

[audiofunktion]

Right on!

Definatly great for consumers, and even better for intel, finally someone will push the processor to take full advantage of a FLOP.... AMD is interestingly enough not in that mix, i expected them to be, excepty i suppose they are having some power issues as well....

The pentium M i believe is the chip that they are really looking to expand, and like you, i cant wait to see what the next level will be...


you know what the saddest part about this is?

i'm talking about the most technical part of computing, and i cant figure out how to put the quote boxes in my messages :oops:

[audiofunktion]

Right on!

Definatly great for consumers, and even better for intel, finally someone will push the processor to take full advantage of a FLOP.... AMD is interestingly enough not in that mix, i expected them to be, excepty i suppose they are having some power issues as well....

The pentium M i believe is the chip that they are really looking to expand, and like you, i cant wait to see what the next level will be...


you know what the saddest part about this is?

i'm talking about the most technical part of computing, and i cant figure out how to put the quote boxes in my messages :oops:

oh, right, the quote button. well isn't THAT confusing

[blay]

Since March, I believe the G5 laptop has been pulled totally. Ie. there isn't going to be one, due to heat issues.

Is this speculation Timo - or have you heard this news from a decent source?

I just hope they dont release them before I get a chance to ebay-off my powerbook g4...

cheers

blay

[hatembr]

this is a classic fight, PCers vs MACers, all i can say is that, PC nowdays still freezes and shows that "Blue Screen of Death", it is still a very capricious machine, when you buy and install a new hardware, you are always fearing its behaviour .

I've seen a friend's G5 in action and also used it a little, and i can insure you never worry or think about getting an Fatal Error or some shit like that.
It is true that sometimes (raaaaaarely), it freezes for some unknown reasons, you just restart the machine and everything's ok again.

Anyway, i am still a PC user (A7N8X Deluxe mobo, AMD3000+, 512 RAM), and i still have problems on my machine, I make music, so i have all the shit you all have, i do programming (Soft and Web), so i have also all the designers and progrmamers shit installed, i also play games etc etc. All this leads to conflicts on Windows and freezing problems.

Now you should say "ok the problem is windows, not PC", BUT, do we have any other choice? if one day we will be able to make music & play games on Linux, then i will certainly switch, but for now, there is PC and it sucks, you have to format it usually to be sure it is clean, run a regfix, care about DLL versions, languages, Virii............ Computers a re supposed to make your life easier not a hell.

Conclusion: following my own experience, i'd say Mac is certainly more stable and more reliable, PC, despite its popularity still have a long way to go. It is not a matter of computing speed, it is a matter of ergonomy and reliablity, and on these points, Mac OS is far better than PC.

[Drammy]

I disagree.

We have a Mac dual G4 in the studio and I have a 2.8GHz PC at home dedicated to music (and video stuff).

My friend came round to show me some after effects stuff (he uses a G5) and he was amazed at how much quicker everything ran on my PC. We had things rendering in about 60% of the time taken on his system.

Since my latest rebuild (bought a new 10,000RPM Raptor C: Drive) I have not had ANY instability whatsoever, it is absolutely rock solid.

I put it all down to research and buying the right parts. If done properly a PC can outclass the best Macs anyday.


The debate goes on (and probably always will)...

Drammy

[Timo]

I have a truly ancient Athlon 700MHz CPU and mobo, and must admit crashes were very frequent when using Win98se...

...BUT! I upgraded to Win XP on the exact same machine for the last year and have NEVER(!!) had a blue screen of death, or any lockups! It's brilliant. If a window ever happens to stop function because I openly abused and punished my available system resources I could easily end that program without it affecting the rest of the system. Works like a charm. Even on an old and relatively incompatible system like mine.

[Drammy]

Timo,

In response to your signature - I think they are already on OS 1.8 or something :wink:

[F5D]

I've been using a dual G5 powermac now for 8 months and altough I didn't have much problems with pc's before I must say that I still have alot less problems with this mac. In fact right now I don't have any. I don't have to worry about viruses or anything. The system won't slow down like windows because there's no registry and the data on the harddrives won't get fragmented. OSX just feels more stable every time you use it. In fact I sold my pc a week ago and bought a supernova 2 rack with the money. I have had everything running on mac for months now and no need for a pc anymore.

I can say that I didn't know anything about osx operating system before I bought a mac. Logic was the reason why I bought it and I didn't know about the rest almost at all. All my friends said that I'm crazy because I'm gonna buy a mac. "there's no software for mac, they're expensive, blaa blaa...." However none of those people had even used a mac and neither had I. We didn't know anything about macs but still kept speaking of them like if we knew something. :lol:

The first time I tried the osx was when I turned my mac's power on the very first time. The OSX had not been the reason to switch to mac because I didn't know how good it is. However now I can say that I got alot more from switching to mac than just the logic audio. I don't regret the switch at all.

All this mac vs. pc talk is like talking of religion. It seems that many people just keep talking and talking altough they know nothing about the other side and get angry very easily when talking about these things. I came from pc side to mac and I don't think anymore that mac users are foolish or that "there's no software for macs" and "nobody supports them". These are really good machines and there's much more software available for macs than you can imagine. Sometimes it sounds very hilarious when somebody suddenly asks: "How you're using skype/MSN? Is it available for mac?" :D

Of course you go and buy a computer which runs your favourite software the fastest (like I did) but chase some more information up of the other side before talking about something you have no real information or experience.

By this post I don't refer to anybody but all. I was one of the dark sider's, doomed macs and also made one of my friends to buy a pc laptop instead of a powerbook which he was going to buy. Now I regret that because I have a mac and have zero problems but the friend who I told to buy pc instead is in big troubles with his laptop. He just had to format the whole harddrive because of worms and viruses and keeps calling me every now and then about his pc related problems. I still haven't had the courage to tell him that I use only mac these days. :?

[Timo]

Virus scanner + Firewall + AntiSpyware + Windows updates = one happy, virus/trojan/worm-free internet PC!

Of course for music making you need none of those things, and you wont get a worm/virus/trojan if you use legit software!

I hear what you're saying, though. Mac OS is similar to the old Amiga in many ways. I absolutely loved the way that Amiga worked. I still regularly think the way PCs sometimes do things is backward when compared back to Amiga computers..... The way that Amigas didn't necessarily have to load up Workbench (the Amiga's "Windows" equivalent) to load a program, hence saving masses of system resources by loading up just the program, its related drivers, and nothing else. True multi-tasking was great. The ability to address RAM as if it were a disk drive was great. AmigaOS was optimised to the max and everything was so efficient (amazing to say they had just 1mb RAM)!

If only Amiga stepped in and created an OS for PC, so that we had Microsoft, Apple, Linux and Amiga OSs to choose from! :lol: I know the hardware constraints would be much different, though. Not forgetting Amiga has effectively been dead in the water for the last 10yrs, of course. (But they still make OSs for Mac G3s, lol!)

Otherwise, Apple OS on PC hardware should be good. Will be nice to see the benchmarks on Apple and Microsoft OSs on otherwise identical hardware. This is good news. Microshaft will be FORCED to tidy up their slug of an OS.

Timo, In response to your signature - I think they are already on OS 1.8 or something ;)

There's nothing wrong with a bit of gentle peer pressure. ;) Hopefully importable/customisable wavetables might appear before, i don't know, OS v10.9, hoho. :)

[F5D]

Otherwise, Apple OS on PC hardware should be good. Will be nice to see the benchmarks on Apple and Microsoft OSs on otherwise identical hardware. This is good news. Microshaft will be FORCED to tidy up their slug of an OS.
These tests have to be done with the new apple intel hardware because the osx needs an apple hardware to run. There's a big dongle on the mobo and the motherboards are not the same which are available for pc customers. However Windows will run with the new apple intel machines. I guess this is what you meant.

If Apple allowed the osx to run on any pc, they could say good bye to apple computer hardware but microsoft would loose market shares to apple maybe even more because many pc users would go for osx instead of windows. We'll see what's going to happen...

[core7]

Ive used dell for many years. Never had a problem with them. Very reliable....but then again ive never used a mac. Macs dont really appeal to me....i think they are grossly over priced.

Get yourself a Dell with P4 2Ghz, 1gig RAM, 120Gib HD (8mb buffer) and a Delta 10/10 and you'll be sorted for years.

all for ?850

DS


I've got almost an identical set-up , ( minus the delta 10/10 ) I've got a Digi 001 and I've had little to no problems. Alot of people bash Dell, but they're decent for the money.