Virus TI and export ( how 'bounce' works with the TI) ?

[scr]

Hello, I Would like to know how the 'export' works with the TI and a Sequencer.

If I work with Cubase, will I be able to export my TI midi tracks in real time like with any VSTi or will I have to record them in audio tracks before I can render them in wav, Aiff or Mp3 format ?

Thanks. :)

[jasedee]

I imagine it will be much the same as you are used to working now....

You record the MIDI tracks first, then when you are ready, set up an audio track and choose it's input (either USB or audio input) and then hit record.

[scr]

Im not convinced because The TI works is a Hardware/Software/Audio card
If if you want to bounce you tracks and If you use the TI as an audio card the Ti midi informations could be easily converted without pre-recording them in audio tracks.

If think Total integration goes far away than just controlling your Virus in your sequencer.

Can someone from Access tell us if it possible ?

[grs]

Yes, true bounce function would be wicked! I usually work at a low sample rate and bounce my mixdowns at 176Khz. Most plugins and soft synths sound better when renederd this way.
I get the feeling the dsp engine of the TI would be fixed at a high internal rate regardless of the Asio sample rate, all streams via usb would be down sampled to meet the Asio rate.
Thats just my guess. Otherwise you would get differnt voice counts for 44.1Khz than at 96Khz.

This brings up another question about the USB 1.1, can it handle the amount of streams if you were working at 192Khz in Asio?

[scr]

But there is a lot of audio card that use USB1 protocol.
You can bounce the tracks in the sequencer without problem.
(If im not wrong). so I think the Ti could it.

[grs]

But there is a lot of audio card that use USB1 protocol.
You can bounce the tracks in the sequencer without problem.
(If im not wrong). so I think the Ti could it.

My point here was not bouncing but just setting your project at 196Khz and working with 3stereo busses from the TI and wether there was enough bandwith on USB 1.1 for that many tracks.

[ddp]

My point here was not bouncing but just setting your project at 196Khz and working with 3stereo busses from the TI and wether there was enough bandwith on USB 1.1 for that many tracks.

The Access web site says it's USB 2, not USB 1.1. USB 2 at 480Kb is roughly equivalent to Firewire 400, so we're in the right ballpark at least.

It's a pity they didn't use Firewire, as there's less host CPU overhead associated with sustained data transfer over Firewire plus Firewire is inherently peer-to-peer and designed to chain well. I dream of the day when I have everything I need on a Firewire 800 bus off my Powerbook.

But it's still absolutely wonderful to have the audio routed over the USB!

[Merlot]

My point here was not bouncing but just setting your project at 196Khz and working with 3stereo busses from the TI and wether there was enough bandwith on USB 1.1 for that many tracks.

The Access web site says it's USB 2, not USB 1.1. USB 2 at 480Kb is roughly equivalent to Firewire 400, so we're in the right ballpark at least.

It's a pity they didn't use Firewire, as there's less host CPU overhead associated with sustained data transfer over Firewire plus Firewire is inherently peer-to-peer and designed to chain well. I dream of the day when I have everything I need on a Firewire 800 bus off my Powerbook.

But it's still absolutely wonderful to have the audio routed over the USB!

It is USB 1.1 compatible with 2.0 ports though. So it runs 1.1 not 2.0. :(

[ddp]

It is USB 1.1 compatible with 2.0 ports though. So it runs 1.1 not 2.0. :(

Hum, I'm not quite sure what you mean by, "runs 1.1". You're either USB 2 or you're not. Any USB 2 device is "compatible" with USB 1, meaning a USB 2 device can fall-back and communicate with USB 1 devices (at the slower USB 1 speed).

But that's certainly not how you'd want to configure the TI ("Compatible with USB 2.0 specifications, USB and High-Speed USB devices"). You'd want to use a pure USB 2 chain. I'd expect "full" USB 2 speed when so configured. Otherwise I'm not following where the bandwidth is coming from either... :-)

See http://www.everythingusb.com/usb2/faq.htm for more info on USB compatibility.

[Merlot]

USB 2.0 ports are backwards compatible with 1.1. So in other words you can use the virus TI, which is 1.1, on a 2.0 port.

[MADSTATION]

ddp...I believe that the TI is NOT USB2. It is USB1.1 and COMPATIBLE with USB2 ports, but still at the 1.1 speed.

[Merlot]

USB 2.0 ports are backwards compatible with 1.1.
This is AFAIK. Dont know, maybe someone from ACCESS could chime in.

[ten]

That is correct, usb1 hardware (99% of the time) is compatible with usb2 ports. Meaning you can plug any usb1 device into a usb2 port and it will work just dandy.

Usb1 speed is 12mb, usb2 is 480mb. If you have a usb1 system ONLY all usb devices will be sharing that 12mb together, they dont have 12 each device which I guess would cause problems when using the TI at its full sound output capacity with other usb devices.

Its not to clear on the access website at all, but basically the TI is usb1 spec and speed but will work in usb2 slots. I personally would of liked them to put a higher price on the TI, spend more time working on it and have at least 8 outputs (preferably 16) using usb2 speeds instead of the 3 outputs we are going to have now........ ah well, maybe for TI-2 :)

ten

[scr]

We still don't know if we can bounce those TI tracks in real time .

[Hollowcell]

We still don't know if we can bounce those TI tracks in real time .

Maybe Access doesn't know yet either. :wink:

Joke by the way. :D

[mcoyote]

USB1 is going to be pushing it with -- what was it? -- two stereo out pairs and one stereo in + MIDI + any other control protocols they built for the VST integration. I'm guessing you get the stereo in pair at a decent sample rate and bandwidth, MIDI, and VST control but that's it.

Still a lot of capability.

[Merlot]

Worst come to worst, you can always bounce midi from it the traditional way via the outoputs. Might save some bandwith on it too.

[ddp]

Its not to clear on the access website at all, but basically the TI is usb1 spec and speed but will work in usb2 slots. I personally would of liked them to put a higher price on the TI, spend more time working on it and have at least 8 outputs (preferably 16) using usb2 speeds instead of the 3 outputs we are going to have now........ ah well, maybe for TI-2 :)

If that's true, then I'd argue that their website is misleading. They say the TI's, "Compatible with USB 2.0 specifications, USB and High-Speed USB devices" and that implies it's a USB 2 device. You'd never say an older device was "compatible" with a newer protocol; it's the other way around -- being "compatible" with USB 2 means it's a USB 2 device.

But perhaps this is lost in the translation... If so, let's hope they go for Firewire on the TI-2! :-)

[Merlot]

ddp,
check this thread out. (http://www.sunesha.nu/virusforum/viewtopic.php?t=3094)

[ben crosland]

If that's true, then I'd argue that their website is misleading. They say the TI's, "Compatible with USB 2.0 specifications, USB and High-Speed USB devices" and that implies it's a USB 2 device. You'd never say an older device was "compatible" with a newer protocol; it's the other way around -- being "compatible" with USB 2 means it's a USB 2 device.


Apparently there were compatibility problems when USB2.0 was first introduced, which meant that some USB devices didn't work properly with USB2.0 interfaces. The wording in the specs is, AFAIK, exactly what the USB society told Access they should write concerning this issue.

[marc]

If that's true, then I'd argue that their website is misleading. They say the TI's, "Compatible with USB 2.0 specifications, USB and High-Speed USB devices" and that implies it's a USB 2 device. You'd never say an older device was "compatible" with a newer protocol; it's the other way around -- being "compatible" with USB 2 means it's a USB 2 device.


Apparently there were compatibility problems when USB2.0 was first introduced, which meant that some USB devices didn't work properly with USB2.0 interfaces. The wording in the specs is, AFAIK, exactly what the USB society told Access they should write concerning this issue.

in case somebody wants to learn more about it:

http://www.usb.org/developers/packaging

you need to scroll down "Low or Full-speed Product Packaging Recommendations" and read on

best, marc

[scr]

Can we have a clear answer to the original question please ?
Can we bounce TI midi tracks in real time so we d'ont need to record them in Audio tracks firrt ? :?: :?: :?:
In fact if Its not possible I will to buy another audio card with multi I/O.
With the TI it will start to cost a bit .....

[MADSTATION]

scr: I'm pretty sure it does...I mean, it HAS to :)

If it isnt the case, TI is losing quite a bit of appeal to me!

[juffi]

As you work with Cubase SX, you should have a look at "realtime export". Ive heard that not all host can do this. But if you mix VSTi tracks and Virus tracks in a song, you will have a delay on the virus tracks. Maybe Access is working on a delay compensator to put it on the delayed tracks. Within Cubase SX2 the automatic delay compensation doesnt work in this case, it is the same problem with my EMU Power FX thing. I dont know if Cubase SX3 can do compensation for real time exports.

Other thing i am asking myself, if Virus TI will supply multiple (16?) outs within the Host !?

[keano]

I have my Virus Snow first 2 patches go through Stereo 1&2 patches 3&4 go to stereo 3&4. So I have to record virus to audio tracks two at time.

"the TI will let you record more parts at a time from separate outputs"

Will this allow me (for instance if recording 4 parts like in Snow) to give them their own outputs to their own audio tracks and record all parts in 1 pass rather then the way I am because of the shared stereo output?

Does that make sense? I'm trying to see if there is a way to speed up the process even if it means getting the TI instead of Snow

[js516k]

I have this working in Cakewalk Sonar, but it should be similar.

I have one instance of the Virus Ti vst, with a multi containing 3 sounds. Each part in the multi is assigned a usb output.

In Sonar I have a midi track and an audio track for each part of the multi. A total of 6 tracks.

The midi track for part one outputs to the vst on midi channel one. The corresponding audio track's input is set to the vst's first usb output pair.

The midi track for part two outputs to the vst on midi channel two.The corrisponding audio track's input is set to the vst's second usb output pair.

The midi track for part three outputs to the vst on midi channel three. The corresponding audio track's input is set to the vst's third usb output pair.

I hope this helps.

[keano]

I have this working in Cakewalk Sonar, but it should be similar.

I have one instance of the Virus Ti vst, with a multi containing 3 sounds. Each part in the multi is assigned a usb output.

In Sonar I have a midi track and an audio track for each part of the multi. A total of 6 tracks.

The midi track for part one outputs to the vst on midi channel one. The corresponding audio track's input is set to the vst's first usb output pair.

The midi track for part two outputs to the vst on midi channel two.The corrisponding audio track's input is set to the vst's second usb output pair.

The midi track for part three outputs to the vst on midi channel three. The corresponding audio track's input is set to the vst's third usb output pair.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply. In Snow I was only had USB 1 and 2. I got a TI desktop and now have USB 3.I think I set it up like you.

1. Right now I am using 3 of the 16 in the TI. They are going out USB 1, 2, and 3. From there I bus each to its own audio track. So I can render 3 midi virus patches to there own audio tracks in 1 pass. Right?

2. If I wanted to use 8 of the 16 they would be on shared USB's right in the Common area.

[js516k]

Yes. In my set up I also use the 3 analog outs for a total of 6 outputs. For larger arrangements(more than 6), I organize the parts of the multis and my midi so I can split the audio clips after recording, as long as I have a single part on an output at a time without it stepping on another. I also strip all reverb, delay, and other effects from the patches so I can maximize the voice count. When I have timing or voice stealing issues, I do multiple recording passes for the more complex voices.

Hope this help. Good luck!