View Full Version : My final GAS list
Juho L
07.03.2005, 08:03 PM
In addition to a new top notch DAW computer: www.juho-lepisto.com/GAS.jpg
There you go, you hardware slaves. Muahahaha! Crush under your heaps of clumsy junk. BUAHAHAHAHA!
AlexHall74
07.03.2005, 08:18 PM
Nice setup actually.
My only problem with all software based is the lack of jammability.
Somehow it's just not the same to jam on a PC.
Some hardware is good for fault tolerance.
Are you looking for investors with this list? :wink:
Juho L
07.03.2005, 09:07 PM
PC jamming is no problem. Actually what's the difference anyways? (excluding acoustic and vintage keyboards)
And nah. No need for investors. But I really wouldn't mind if someone would like to invest.
AlexHall74
07.03.2005, 09:15 PM
Juho wrote:
PC jamming is no problem. Actually what's the difference anyways? (excluding acoustic and vintage keyboards)
The difference is the mouse.
As soon as I touch one it bums me out for some reason.
A mouse is as much of a let down to a jam session as a condom is to sex, IMHO.
Juho wrote:
And nah. No need for investors. But I really wouldn't mind if someone would like to invest.
Heh! Same here.
I bought all my gear myself BUT I will NEVER stop another human being from buying me additional gear. :wink:
Merlot
07.03.2005, 11:09 PM
The difference is the mouse.
As soon as I touch one it bums me out for some reason.
A mouse is as much of a let down to a jam session as a condom is to sex, IMHO.
Agreed!. I hate using the mouse to tweak "virtual knobs" Interrups the creative process and flow for me. I know I could get a knob box, but I am too lazy to have to set it all up to respoind to certain MIDI CC#'s and crap like that.
Juho L
08.03.2005, 01:01 PM
Have you guys ever heard of MIDI? You know, the thing that's used to control software and synths. Hoho.
Tomer=Trance
08.03.2005, 01:54 PM
lol juho is right
in addition what the use of comfortable hw synths to program when you dont have a good runing studio to creat and record quality music in!
Juho L
08.03.2005, 02:09 PM
lol juho is right
in addition what the use of comfortable hw synths to program when you dont have a good runing studio to creat and record quality music in!
The reason why I got away from hardware is the reason that I simply hate recording synths - It's an endless loop of record-"make changes"-delete-rerecord-"make more changes"-delete-rerecord. With software it's so nice that you can add FX right away and you have much more polyphony available. It's a joy.
By the way, that Doepfer Drehbank is a brilliant box. You can assing the knobs so that you can program for example PoCo Virus hardly even touching a mouse or keyboard. Great for that jamming stuff Alex mentioned. That box even has space for custom labels above the knobs.
I just sent an e-mail to a company that makes studio desks and asked how much would cost a custom studio desk (from bottom to top: Keyboard & mouse -> Doepfer PK88 -> Fatar SL161 Pro -> Doepfer Drehbank mounted in an incline panel for easy access -> Space for two 17" LCD displays & studio monitors). By the way has anyone got a custom studio desk? Are those pricey?
AlexHall74
08.03.2005, 02:10 PM
Merlot wrote:
Agreed!. I hate using the mouse to tweak "virtual knobs" Interrups the creative process and flow for me. I know I could get a knob box, but I am too lazy to have to set it all up to respoind to certain MIDI CC#'s and crap like that.
Yup, it sucks!
Juho L wrote:
Have you guys ever heard of MIDI? You know, the thing that's used to control software and synths. Hoho.
Yup, but I am totally new to it so I can't fully utilize it as of yet. Maybe in a year or so, but not now.
So, I still prefer hardware but REALLY appreciate the affordability/versatility of software synths.
I'll get there, I'm still new to keys. :roll:
My GAS list is as follows:
* Soundcraft Ghost24 (hopefully aquiring one very soon)
* Centrino laptop... with multi-channel i/o audio and midi
The TI will, unfortunately, have to wait...... ;) If I get the above items, it'll be the first time I'll ever be able to make proper music as opposed to just messing around.
Tomer=Trance
08.03.2005, 05:28 PM
i want creamware pulser2+ins/outs expention and a new room to put my stuff in,i dont have enough space to place my monitors correctly...
Merlot
08.03.2005, 05:41 PM
Have you guys ever heard of MIDI? You know, the thing that's used to control software and synths. Hoho.
Once again see my lazy statement!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:
AlexHall74
08.03.2005, 05:54 PM
Juho wrote:
There you go, you hardware slaves. Muahahaha! Crush under your heaps of clumsy junk. BUAHAHAHAHA!
Digital Screams would strongly disagree with you.
I think you two should hack it out Juho. :wink:
Hollowcell
08.03.2005, 11:53 PM
With software it's so nice that you can add FX right away and you have much more polyphony available. It's a joy.
With hardware FX, mixer, and EQ it's so nice being able to add FX straight away, over drive the mixer, use analogue EQ without having to menu change, press button to run the signal through a valve (at any point of the chain) and then listen to all that goodness with out having to worry about D/A converstion..... :wink:
Youngsters these days. :roll:
With software it's so nice that you can add FX right away and you have much more polyphony available. It's a joy.
With hardware FX, mixer, and EQ it's so nice being able to add FX straight away, over drive the mixer, use analogue EQ without having to menu change, press button to run the signal through a valve (at any point of the chain) and then listen to all that goodness with out having to worry about D/A converstion..... :wink:
Youngsters these days. :roll:
:D <-- Friday, Ghost day.
Panopticon
09.03.2005, 10:08 AM
The entire hardware/software debate is about as exciting as an enema. I'd rather eat a carton of saltines with no water. Each obviously has its advantages and disadvantages, and at the end of the day if your setup allows you to create music without getting in your way, then you've won.
The problem I've been trying to attack lately is that of endless options: when you start to accumulate too many choices to suit the same desired end, you get so lost in options that you start to forget the end result at which you're aiming. Having said that, I like Juho's GAS list, because there's not a lot of redundancy to clutter up workflow; and that's the kind of working environment I've been trying to create for myself in the midst of all the countless options at my disposal.
(But, I'm also a total slut for highend mics, preamps, outboard EQ's, boutique guitar amps, and the like, and I don't see that stopping anytime soon......so be it.)
jasedee
09.03.2005, 10:48 AM
:D <-- Friday, Ghost day.
Are you getting the LE or the one with Automation???? I wanted to get the Le32 but apparently they stopped making these....
Cant find a used one here in Australia either.....would love to have 32 faders for mixdown time!!! I hear these Ghost consoles are quite transparent
Enjoy your new purchase!
I hear these Ghost consoles are quite transparent
spooky 8O
Tomer=Trance
09.03.2005, 11:13 AM
lol
Juho L
09.03.2005, 01:12 PM
With hardware FX, mixer, and EQ it's so nice being able to add FX straight away, over drive the mixer, use analogue EQ without having to menu change, press button to run the signal through a valve (at any point of the chain) and then listen to all that goodness with out having to worry about D/A converstion.....
In 64 tracks? Well, quite a big studio you have there then. Muahahaha!
But really, nothing kills the inspiration more efficiently than battling with hardware and making endless overdubs. I did it for few years and finally technology gives a solution for that hell. Yay!
:D <-- Friday, Ghost day.
Are you getting the LE or the one with Automation???? I wanted to get the Le32 but apparently they stopped making these....
It'll be a second-hand 24 channel LE. I originally thought the Automated version had VCA automation, but this wasn't the case (the full version has only automated MMC, midi mutes, and mute-groups) so hopefully I'll not regret losing those functions.
32 channels, however, would eclipse my bedroom, lol.
With the monitor channels patched in the 24-channel should allow for 48 input channels plus 4 stereo returns and tape-ins (a total of 58 channels! 8O) at any one time, i think. In addition to hardware synths/effects, am hoping to output eight channels from my computer to the console with eight going back into the computer for the best of hybrid hardware/software worlds.... I desperately need a computer upgrade and a new soundcard for that though!
Cant find a used one here in Australia either.....would love to have 32 faders for mixdown time!!!
I looked on ebay over the past year or so, watching a good few Soundtracs mixers and Ghosts going through, just to see what the score was, but I never went for them as I never really knew if they'd been looked after, or what condition I'd receivec them in.
Instead I went for purchasing it from a "Soundtracs" console engineer who buys (all analogue) consoles and services them for a living. So it should get here in good condition, touch wood, and I'll have a place to go to for lifetime servicing or advice if anything goes wrong. I wouldn't like to have something like a console posted, as stuff gets bashed, so am picking it up myself.
For those in the UK, the guy's website is http://www.studiosys.demon.co.uk/consoles.htm , which is mainly Soundtracs stuff, but he services and buys other mixers too http://www.studiosys.demon.co.uk/other_mixers.htm
Originally I was looking for a Soundtracs (Topaz Project-8 ), but the Aux arrangement and EQ functionality of the Ghost appears a lot more flexible. I'm looking forward to it.
I hear these Ghost consoles are quite transparent
eheh. :)
[edit, pesky bbcode]
DIGITAL SCREAMS
09.03.2005, 03:03 PM
Its all software Juho? Why do that.....software is pretty dull.....
Talk about a passion killer. For that money Id buy one decent analog poly, mono and decent VA. The rest on outboard, FX and drum machine.
DS
I think (hope!) there would be great things to be said with mixing with your ears and fingertips, not your eyes on a computer screen with mouse glued in hand. I abhor the latter, hence the mixer purchase.
Having said that, it'd be great to pipe out a few channels from your computer out onto a desk to get everything to interact and gel, fusing it together with all your hardware gear.
Juho L
09.03.2005, 03:28 PM
think (hope!) there would be great things to be said with mixing with your ears and fingertips, not your eyes on a computer screen with mouse glued in hand. I abhor the latter, hence the mixer purchase.
Sounds like you have tried software setup without a soundcard. Hoho.
Edit: By the way what's the difference in looking at a mixer on a screen or a mixer on real life? The view is exactly the same except on software you also see the FX loop on the same compact screen. And what's the difference between moving a mixer slider and MIDI controller slider?
The bitter truth is that hardware is annoying. "Maybe I'll pause this project for a while and continue one previous project... Whopee! I wonder how these sliders and FX were... Damn, can't remember. I love hardware!"
>>Sounds like you have tried software setup without a soundcard. Hoho.
A 58 input soundcard.... mmm, where can I get one of those? ho ho
>>Edit: By the way what's the difference in looking at a mixer on a screen or a mixer on real life?
I think you just answered it.
Semantics and personal preferences, but what's the point of just "looking" at a mixer? Wouldn't you want that screen to be at least touchscreen and 40" widescreen? ;)
A real mixer.... Instant access tweakol?, no scrolling, no mouse-pointing, no sub-menus, no tiny buttons, no fancy graphics, no software incompatibilities, no crappy EQ, no digital summing, no lack of headroom, no digital clipping, no lack of mic-pre's, no system resources, no Microsoft operating systems, no Steinbugs, no driver updates, no error messages, no internet connection, etc. etc.....
>>The bitter truth is that hardware is annoying. "Maybe I'll pause this project for a while and continue one previous project... Whopee! I wonder how these sliders and FX were... Damn, can't remember. I love hardware!"
lol
Hopefully it'll encourage me to finish one tune before going on to the next. ;)
--------
Nah, I'm being pedantic. In truth, it's going to be used as a glorified soundcard, integrating hardware and multi-channel software. I couldn't live without a computer for audio!!!
Tomer=Trance
09.03.2005, 05:25 PM
Its all software Juho? Why do that.....software is pretty dull.....
Talk about a passion killer. For that money Id buy one decent analog poly, mono and decent VA. The rest on outboard, FX and drum machine.
DS
i think with juno's digital software setup he might finish a whole album mixed and ready 4 mastering by the time you will say :"comon lads lets start do some jaming" :wink:
hardware realy makes stuff take longer...
have said that digital mixers/control surfess with automation is the ultimate way to mix... :D
Panopticon
09.03.2005, 05:43 PM
have said that digital mixers/control surfess with automation is the ultimate way to mix... :D
haha, um...no. The ultimate way to mix is with a world class analog console. SSL ring any bells? You might not be able to own one, but you can rent a day at a studio that has one and do your mixing (or better yet, have your mixing done) there...it'll kick digital's ass six ways from Sunday.
Hardware synths are under control as long as you don't record them to audio. Earlier I always recorded my synths to audio and then took another patch and recorded it and so on.. Now I DON'T record anything. I control all my synths from logic audio and automate cutoff's etc. I still store the patches in my synths' own memory but I give every midi track a name of the synth & used patch so I always know what patch was used for the track.
All my synths are directly connected to a multi input audio interface and I use software effects for the hardware synths too, like TC reverbs & UAD comps. It's (like) using hardware quality synths & fx in software domain. I don't feel much difference anymore whether I am using a software synth or a hardware synth in a project because they work flawlessly together. It depends on the style you're producing but in my case I usually still get better sounds from hardware than native software.
Spot on post. ;)
MMm,, UAD-1, gas! gas!
jasedee
09.03.2005, 10:36 PM
I think from a musicians point of view (Juho) the all software option is a better one....but from an engineers point of view, we could never go past hardware (Mixers, FX/Dynamics processing, Synths?)
Software sure makes life a little easier....but it isnt quite there yet in terms of sound quality (and Vibe!). Why do you think all (Alot) of big-name artists will record in digital, then for mixdown, hire a Neve room (or SSL, if thats your thing). Cos they sound foockin' hot! It's the best of both worlds!
My ideal would be a HD system with top notch converters, with vintage pre's (Courtesy of the Studer) and then an analogue desk (and outboard) for mixdown.
I could spend $4000 on a Tascam control surface for 24 faders......or I could spend that $4000 on a Nuemann Mic and boutique preamp. I know what I would rather have....
Panopticon
09.03.2005, 10:54 PM
I still store the patches in my synths' own memory but I give every midi track a name of the synth & used patch so I always know what patch was used for the track.
I used to do this, but I changed the bank content on my synths so often that my sequencer would inevitably point to a location that had been changed. So I smartened up and started using a better system: start all of my songs on measure 2, and use the first measure for a simple SysEx single patch dump. This way you're guaranteed the sound will always be there...
I also think Jasedee said everything best in the post above...
Hollowcell
10.03.2005, 12:17 AM
I think from a musicians point of view (Juho) the all software option is a better one....but from an engineers point of view, we could never go past hardware (Mixers, FX/Dynamics processing, Synths?)
Yep, I agree for sure. I want the most solid, warm and unique sound I can, this means using outboard. Took me years to finally realize this. If I was into electronic music for the "catchy riff" or crafted arangements I can see the plus of an all software setup, but I'm not, I'm into it for the "sound".
Software sure makes life a little easier....but it isnt quite there yet in terms of sound quality (and Vibe!). Why do you think all (Alot) of big-name artists will record in digital, then for mixdown, hire a Neve room (or SSL, if thats your thing). Cos they sound foockin' hot! It's the best of both worlds!
Yup.
My ideal would be a HD system with top notch converters, with vintage pre's (Courtesy of the Studer) and then an analogue desk (and outboard) for mixdown.
I could spend $4000 on a Tascam control surface for 24 faders......or I could spend that $4000 on a Nuemann Mic and boutique preamp. I know what I would rather have....
The Tascam???? :wink:
matsa
10.03.2005, 07:08 AM
You sneaky bastards, having a serious topic going on here. I'm having serious reservations about a reply, but agggggh..
Mixing room can be an instrument in itself and would like to be, ideally, as tangible as a keyboard, guitar or even, god help us, a drum kit. I haven't got one anymore, though. All I could hear was the terrible acoustics of the room.
Softsynths are brilliant. I think it's great that 14 year olds can have access to them on a cheap PC. When I was 14 (1976 muthas) can you imagine that my dad would have bought me a Fairlight CMI? But, if you've got space for all that junk, go for it! I love having old stuff. As does my wife, clearly.
AlexHall74
10.03.2005, 12:10 PM
Matsa wrote:
Mixing room can be an instrument in itself and would like to be, ideally, as tangible as a keyboard, guitar or even, god help us, a drum kit. I haven't got one anymore, though. All I could hear was the terrible acoustics of the room.
Go mobile!
There is the possibility now-a-days of having a very effective mobile rig.
Get either a nice Mac Powerbook OR a nice Pentium Centrino with maximum RAM + a nice firewire/USB 2.0 breakout box + a microphone and you can record all kinds of shite anywhere.
Run soft synths on it, Run your tracks through a sequencer, VST FX, etc.
This would be a nice way to go for the sheer portability of it.
Imagine how many different people and studio environments you could extract material with while equipped with such a rig.
You might be able to convince the Dallas Cowboy's cheerleaders to let you in their lockerroom for shower time for the sake of preserving the sonic imprint for posterity...Hmmmmmmmm... :wink:
http://www.capitalregionsports.com/images/cover04-04.jpg
Juho L
10.03.2005, 01:17 PM
I could spend $4000 on a Tascam control surface for 24 faders......or I could spend that $4000 on a Nuemann Mic and boutique preamp. I know what I would rather have....
What's the function of this line? You're wondering would you get a mic or a digital recorder?
Juho L
10.03.2005, 01:20 PM
Softsynths are brilliant. I think it's great that 14 year olds can have access to them on a cheap PC. When I was 14 (1976 muthas) can you imagine that my dad would have bought me a Fairlight CMI?
Yup. Cheap gear gear is really nice (although it increases the number of trance producers, but I can handle it).
But, if you've got space for all that junk, go for it! I love having old stuff. As does my wife, clearly.
Sure. All women like junk lying around in their apartment, like rusty motorcycle bodies, broken synths, a Soviet made truck Ural...
Juho L
10.03.2005, 01:24 PM
As I've said earlier, tube compressors and EQ's and other analog gear really sound great, but is it truely worth of the price and effort? Like Jasedee said: If you want analog, go to rent a place for mixing the stuff you've made on digital system. For a hobbyist (and even on a professional musician) a working analog hifi studio is way too expensive. Even with relatively high budget you can only get really limited system. So why to get a crippled analog studio instead of fully working an joy-to-use digital studio?
Juho L
10.03.2005, 01:38 PM
Hardware synths are under control as long as you don't record them to audio.
Well, this is not possible unless you make minimalistic druk junkie music. Especially on VA's the polyphony is just too small to allow full sequencing without mixdowns.
Hardware synths are under control as long as you don't record them to audio.
Well, this is not possible unless you make minimalistic druk junkie music. Especially on VA's the polyphony is just too small to allow full sequencing without mixdowns.
I don't understand people who always keep thinking that you should get all the sounds, polyphony and outputs from a single synthesizer. It will never work, until the TI (however it still lacks the outputs), but I still wouldn't use the TI for all the sounds.
All synths have their own sound character and that's why many studios use many different synths and it's also alot easier to use 1 synth for 1 sound and forget the multi setups. That's just what many big studios do.
I use only 1 midi-channel for every hardware synth I own and I don't have any problems doing so. In fact my super bass station and pulse are pure monosynths so I couldn't even think of using them polyphonically or multitimbrally. I use them for the sound they have. The same goes pretty much for the JP80x0 too. The stereo output can be devided to 2 separate mono ouputs but I rather use the good onboard stereo effects and the 10 voices of polyphony for the sound I need. I don't need to get all the sounds from a single synth. I don't even want to. And I don't do mixdowns anymore unless the sound is not playing in main role and can be looped easily. That was the key to a better producing. And I am happier to use 1 channel of real jp80x0 than 10 instances of superwave p8. I still like software very much like I have said. I would go for a software only solution but I need some sounds which cannot be made with software yet, or ever.
FSD, how do you combat the latency for mixing with hardware in realtime and using dsp plugins? (powercore/uad)
ten
DIGITAL SCREAMS
11.03.2005, 12:37 AM
Id like to hear some dance/trance/techno made on 100% analog equipment. From analog synths right through to post production (or whatever u call it). No digital interferance.
Any guesses to how that might sound?
DS
jasedee
11.03.2005, 07:19 AM
I could spend $4000 on a Tascam control surface for 24 faders......or I could spend that $4000 on a Nuemann Mic and boutique preamp. I know what I would rather have....
What's the function of this line? You're wondering would you get a mic or a digital recorder?
Just contemplating the new Tascam Control Surface that offers 24 Faders.....But would rather buy an awesome vocal mic/valve pre
Juho L
11.03.2005, 01:24 PM
Just contemplating the new Tascam Control Surface that offers 24 Faders.....But would rather buy an awesome vocal mic/valve pre
Of course. If I'd have to choose between those two I'd pick the mic. But what that Tascam/mic comparisation had to do with the HW/SW?
Juho L
11.03.2005, 01:25 PM
Id like to hear some trance made on 100% analog equipment. From analog synths right through to post production (or whatever u call it). No digital interferance.
Any guesses to how that might sound?
Crap maybe? MUAHAHAHAHAHA!
FSD, how do you combat the latency for mixing with hardware in realtime and using dsp plugins? (powercore/uad)
ten
I have the reverbs in the busses so they don't affect to the audio track's latency and I don't mind altough the reverb comes out a little later. It's like increasing pre delay a little. So I usually play the melodies without insert effects so the latency is not a problem. Once I have the melody quantized in the matrix editor, I begin inserting the dsp plugs. I compensate the latency with negative midi delay. I listen to the track and set the delay so that the project plays ok. This has worked well for me. It's not working in realtime but it's not a problem to me.
eek, I couldnt be arsed with all that. Aleksey from Voxengo has made a nice free plugin called 'latency delay' which works quite well if your using 512 samples. Ive emailed him to increase the timings on it so it works at higher buffer rates. Would be fantastic to have hardware running in sync with software and dsp plugs /me drools.
ten
jasedee
12.03.2005, 07:51 AM
Just contemplating the new Tascam Control Surface that offers 24 Faders.....But would rather buy an awesome vocal mic/valve pre
Of course. If I'd have to choose between those two I'd pick the mic. But what that Tascam/mic comparisation had to do with the HW/SW?
Hmmm.....Im not so sure anymore. I see your point, that comment seemed to have stemmed from a different debate in a different topic.
I need some serious sleep.....Uni is killing me
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