Virus Ti anygood to make hip hop joint ??

[bj2001]

Just wanna known if the Virus has been used by well known hip hop beatmaker, since it's labelled as a trance synthetizer.

To create westcoast lead (whinnin') ? la Dr Dre or some Neptunish/ Timbaland sounds.

Cos i hesitate with a Nord Lead (editing is faster but no FX, only 4 multi)
TI got mo' spec' & a better interaction with VST.

THhx for ya help. 8)

[Merlot]

To create westcoast lead (whinnin') ? la Dr Dre or some Neptunish/ Timbaland sounds.


Virus can be used ofr whatever genre you want. But if you want to sound like neptunes, dre, etc. . . . go with a moog voyager.

[bj2001]

thx i got a studio electronic SE1X.
I'm lookin' for a good VA synth.

the TI is a powerful studio gear to make pads, synth lead & all, + the ARP is dope. Programmin' ya own patch is the goal.

But i don't know if it's better to take a nord lead (faster programming) & get another synth for the price of the TI.

I heard the virus OSC are weak compared to CLavia & the FX are a big part of the Virus sound.

So i'm stuck :?
+ the waiting is too loooong :x

[Hollowcell]

I'd say the Virus could do pretty much what you're after. I don't make trance at all (far, far from it infact) and the Virus fits quite well.

The OSCs are on the weaker side when comparing to some other gear around, but unison with no detune or pan spread helps in that arena.

Voices don't last long if I wanna program sounds on my VC to match the power of sounds on the nord though.

[Timo]

The OSCs are on the weaker side when comparing to some other gear around, but unison with no detune or pan spread helps in that arena.

Yeah, why is that? When doing 'blind tests' by listening to dry oscillators from several sources (including, especially, the Juno, Pulse, Jupiter and others, as well as the Virus), the Virus always seems so, so very dreadfully thin in these comparisons, even when they've all been programmed similarly. Why don't Access address that?

The "stock" Virus sound can be improved, imho, much more than just sticking a hypersaw model in there, etc....

Maybe Access have made a rod for their own back by having to adhere to the samey samey character of previous Virus', with each succession...? I don't know, but it needs addressing.

Apologies for sticking my neck out. :oops:

[ben crosland]

The OSCs are on the weaker side when comparing to some other gear around, but unison with no detune or pan spread helps in that arena.

Yeah, why is that? When doing 'blind tests' by listening to dry oscillators from several sources (including, especially, the Juno, Pulse, Jupiter and others, as well as the Virus), the Virus always seems so, so very dreadfully thin in these comparisons, even when they've all been programmed similarly. Why don't Access address that?

Because you are not listening to as dry a signal as you think you are. Most synths have an eq curve applied to them internally which is impossible to bypass. Roland's are bassey and toppy. Waldorf Q's are just toppy. So, in actual fact, Access have addressed this by giving the Virus an EQ as well the Analog Boost effect - however, the purist attitude which seems to be so pervasive in the synth community seems to forbid their use when judging a synthesizer. :roll:

[Timo]

Hiya Ben, is it solely the inherent EQ differences, or is there more to it going on than that?

I was thinking more along the lines of different oscillator waveform representations and implementations?

[ben crosland]

Hiya Ben, is it solely the inherent EQ differences, or is there more to it going on than that?

I was thinking more along the lines of different oscillator waveform representations and implementations?

Well, put it like this - if an oscillator module within a VA engine has some eq built into it, then you're going to see a different waveform from one that doesn't. But if you have eq applied later in the signal, you're still going to see a different waveform from one that doesn't, so long as it can't be bypassed.

The Virus implementation is such that all the eq'ing is transparent to the user, and also controllable. I like this approach, personally - it's one of the factors which adds to the incredible versatility of this synth.

[hackborn]

The Virus implementation is such that all the eq'ing is transparent to the user, and also controllable. I like this approach, personally - it's one of the factors which adds to the incredible versatility of this synth.

Hey Ben, that's very interesting -- so do you know if the EQ being applied to other synths is on the oscillator itself, i.e. prefiltering and modulation, or at the end of the signal path? And what about the virus? I always assumed the EQ was just one of the effects at the end of the path, but maybe that's not true.

[Merlot]

I like this approach, personally - it's one of the factors which adds to the incredible versatility of this synth.

Once a salesman, always a salesman! J/K with ya Ben. :wink:

[hackborn]

Oops never mind, I see you answered that

[ben crosland]

Once a salesman, always a salesman! J/K with ya Ben. :wink:

:lol: Yep - just can't help myself..

[Timo]

Nice one. Does the EQ module in the Virus C and TI come before or after the filters?

I always assumed that the EQ was for shaping an overall patch to go into a multi-channel mix (song), rather than tonally effecting an oscillator before it goes on to be processed further.

[Timo]

Interesting.

Just a thought....

Does the VCF of a synth affect the oscillator waveform, even if it's left wide open?

....Like, on the Virus C, does a Saw with the Moog filter (low pass, but wide open) look any different to a Saw using the standard Virus filter (wide open), after it's been routed through the VCF?

Otherwise, if it's not the VCF, but an overall general "EQ" that's imprinted on the sound (via the inherent design of the circuitry, as a whole), how come there aren't Juno (or Pulse, Jupiter, TB, etc.) EQ plugins or the like (for VST, or similar), which sample that inherent EQ, so you can apply it to channels as an effect? ..

...Similarly like Steinberg's "FreeFilter" plugin, but with Juno, JP, etc., EQ-presets.

I can remember hearing a Juno's basic saw wave, and it sounded really, really thick and meaty, especially when doubled and detuned. The Virus' saw(s) were played next to it (along with other synths - it was a 'blind' test) and it sounded like a bumble bee in comparison ('analogue boost' notwithstanding). I was shocked!
All the square waves sounded really different, too. The Jupiter8's square sounded downright evil. :twisted:

[ben crosland]

Does the VCF of a synth affect the oscillator waveform, even if it's left wide open?

....Like, on the Virus C, does a Saw with the Moog filter (low pass, but wide open) look any different to a Saw using the standard Virus filter (wide open), after it's been routed through the VCF?

Yes - because the Moog filter has embedded saturation. The difference is particularly noticeable with the Sine wave. From what I can tell, the standard filters do not affect the signal when fully open, so long as there is no saturation curve applied.

I can remember hearing a Juno's basic saw wave, and it sounded really, really thick and meaty, especially when doubled and detuned.

The question is - is it possible to hear just the basic saw wave in an analog machine? I would suggest not, unless there is a bypass button for all the subsequent sections, all of which will add colouration to that basic wave..

how come there aren't Juno (or Pulse, Jupiter, TB etc.) EQ plugins or the like..

Dunno. It's probably a lot more complicated and subtle than I have suggested, for one thing. Plus I guess people generally want the filter rather than just an eq - and with that there's the possibility that they already do build eq into those filter models..

I can't say that any of my comments on this topic can be held up as 100% fact, btw..

[ben crosland]

Nice one. Does the EQ module in the Virus C and TI come before or after the filters?

After - it's in the effects section.

[Merlot]

Ben,
Holy fuck mate. Did you learn all this through trial/error and ears? Or did you take some lectrical engineering courses?

[ben crosland]

Ben,
Holy fuck mate. Did you learn all this through trial/error and ears? Or did you take some lectrical engineering courses?

The Virus I know about pretty well by now - I've been working with it obsessively for the last 5 yrs or so. The rest is based on hearsay and speculation. Anyone who has had even a passing interest in decent hi-fi systems knows about colouration though - it's an inevitable consequence of any electrical circuit.

[bj2001]

ben get back to subject
& what do u think about the Virus TI to make sum hip hop tune ? la Dr Dre or other top notch producer.
thx

[ben crosland]

ben get back to subject
& what do u think about the Virus TI to make sum hip hop tune ? la Dr Dre or other top notch producer.
thx

I think it will serve you more than adequately - I've just been making some very phat basses on mine 8)

You do know that Dre has a Virus, don't you? It is also the defacto synth for 'Dub Step', I am told.

[bj2001]

yeah but i heard most producers on the westcoast (Dr Dre, Dj QUik, Fredwreck) use the Nord Lead
cos the interface is quicker.
But then they must have mo' synth in their studio like an A6, Triton, Nord Lead, Waldorf Q to make mo' complex beats.

So i'm lookin' to a versatile synth. & i guess the TI is the real deal. :)
After havin' a Clavia G2, a NL3, not enuff multi parts, no FX.

I just hope the menu & OS on the TI is better thought to make quick edit (mo' dedicated buttons) & create ya own patch.

[EnjoyRC]

I've just been making some very phat basses on mine 8)
Just have to rub it in... eh? :?

[Hollowcell]

Well, put it like this - if an oscillator module within a VA engine has some eq built into it, then you're going to see a different waveform from one that doesn't. But if you have eq applied later in the signal, you're still going to see a different waveform from one that doesn't, so long as it can't be bypassed.

This is interesting, but it still doesn't change the fact that the Virus needs alot of unison to match the oomph of some other synths (just using the built in EQs and analogue just isn't enough). It's not putting the OSCs down though, because the Virus definitely has a desirable characture - it's just there's no denying the facts.

Let's say compare the Virus to the Nord2......

The Nord seems more capable of solid bass, punchier mids and cleaner highs than the Virus without the use of EQ. Of course this in itself doesn't mean it's sound better or worse - personal taste after all.

Maybe getting them for free may help with my comparisons though. :wink:

[Tomer=Trance]

i think alot of hip hop producers hire a programer.

about bass sounds:personaly i dont use the virus for bass parts because i dont find it fat enough for button end analog basses (and i do know how to program a synth...)
its realy hard to get fat juno 60/106 or minimoog type of bass sounds (saw and pulse basses...).

[marc]

Well, put it like this - if an oscillator module within a VA engine has some eq built into it, then you're going to see a different waveform from one that doesn't. But if you have eq applied later in the signal, you're still going to see a different waveform from one that doesn't, so long as it can't be bypassed.

This is interesting, but it still doesn't change the fact that the Virus needs alot of unison to match the oomph of some other synths (just using the built in EQs and analogue just isn't enough). It's not putting the OSCs down though, because the Virus definitely has a desirable characture - it's just there's no denying the facts.

Let's say compare the Virus to the Nord2......

The Nord seems more capable of solid bass, punchier mids and cleaner highs than the Virus without the use of EQ. Of course this in itself doesn't mean it's sound better or worse - personal taste after all.

Maybe getting them for free may help with my comparisons though. :wink:

to me that's a common misunderstanding. unison mode used in bass sounds is likely to make it NOT phatter at all (think phase cancellation). there is a reason why so many people (used) the TB for bass sounds and we all know that this baby does not have an unison mode ;)

important to me is that the length of the bass note and the arrangement with the kick makes musical sense. it is all about giving the bass space to coexist with the rest... and of course, compressing helps as well.

marc

[Timo]

Well, put it like this - if an oscillator module within a VA engine has some eq built into it, then you're going to see a different waveform from one that doesn't. But if you have eq applied later in the signal, you're still going to see a different waveform from one that doesn't, so long as it can't be bypassed.

This is interesting, but it still doesn't change the fact that the Virus needs alot of unison to match the oomph of some other synths (just using the built in EQs and analogue just isn't enough). It's not putting the OSCs down though, because the Virus definitely has a desirable characture - it's just there's no denying the facts.

Let's say compare the Virus to the Nord2......

The Nord seems more capable of solid bass, punchier mids and cleaner highs than the Virus without the use of EQ. Of course this in itself doesn't mean it's sound better or worse - personal taste after all.

Maybe getting them for free may help with my comparisons though. :wink:

to me that's a common misunderstanding. unison mode used in bass sounds is likely to make it NOT phatter at all (think phase cancellation). there is a reason why so many people (used) the TB for bass sounds and we all know that this baby does not have an unison mode ;)

important to me is that the length of the bass note and the arrangement with the kick makes musical sense. it is all about giving the bass space to coexist with the rest... and of course, compressing helps as well.

marc

Hi Marc, layering via Unison (but without any Detune) on the Virus does tend to make the sound a lot more chunky. There was a thread about this recently, somewhere....

[Edit: Found it: http://www.sunesha.nu/virusforum/viewtopic.php?p=30350#30350 ]

[Hollowcell]

to me that's a common misunderstanding. unison mode used in bass sounds is likely to make it NOT phatter at all (think phase cancellation). there is a reason why so many people (used) the TB for bass sounds and we all know that this baby does not have an unison mode ;)marc

Comparing the Virus to an Analogue is a whole different topic Marc. Kinda funny you even brought it up. With Bass, a single OSC from a nice Analogue with very little processing blows the Virus away. Even the most solid Virus supporters won't deny this. Even the guys working for the company itself. :wink:

I was talking about completely dry, unprocessed sounds from the Virus when compared to a nord. Just to get the oomph of the Nord, the Virus needs processing, unison or both. I don't use the Virus for bass at all any more for this very reason. For my music it just doesn't seem to get what I want without heavy processing. For pads, FX and even leads on occasion it's great!

My opinion on this isn't just a one off either. Many people feel the same way about the Virus range. Once again though, it's not such a big deal, because the Virus has a great characture which makes it a truely inspirational instrument to play.

Like I said, give me one for free and maybe my opinions will be more biast. :wink: :D

[ben crosland]

Like I said, give me one for free and maybe my opinions will be more biast. :wink: :D

Nothing comes for free, my friend ;)

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Hang on a sec....

since when has a synth *ever* been good at everything? For me, the Virus' strongest points are its ability to make silky dynamic pads and 'outhere' effects. Personally I dont choose to use it for bass or leads.....because I have Prophets and Jupiters for those duties. Lucky me I guess.

DS

[ben crosland]

Hang on a sec....

since when has a synth *ever* been good at everything? For me, the Virus' strongest points are its ability to make silky dynamic pads and 'outhere' effects. Personally I dont choose to use it for bass or leads.....because I have Prophets and Jupiters for those duties. Lucky me I guess.

DS

The new oscillators should go some way towards addressing this - Hypersaw is great for bass IMO (especially the 'Hypersquare' sub w/sync) and the wavetables can make some great leads. 80's sounds are a doddle to make as well, DS..

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Ben when I heard your Ti demo....and heard those wavetables.....I immediately heard the potential for some 'proper' 80's type sounds. Im very keen to reproduce the pure digital 80's wavetable sound. Most of the music and film scores from the mid 80's onwards had *alot* of this. I love it :lol:

DS

[ben crosland]

layering via Unison (but without any Detune) on the Virus does tend to make the sound a lot more chunky.

Assuming you get around the phase cancellation issues (i.e. by using Phase Init in the osc section), all you get is a louder sound, surely?

[MADSTATION]

Hypersquare sounds cool, but I'd be curious how hard it is to actually use in a mix :)

Can't wait to play around ;)

[Hollowcell]

Like I said, give me one for free and maybe my opinions will be more biast. :wink: :D

Nothing comes for free, my friend ;)

Being more biast will be how I repay Access. :D Fair deal I would say. :wink: