>> what is sidechaining and how to use it?

[hatembr]

i think it is one of the less covered topics! can someone explain it plz ?

[MADSTATION]

Basically sidechain compression is when you trigger a compressor using a signal different than the source.

Examples:

* You set the kick to trigger the compressor and you set the compressor on the bass. This will compress the bass on every kick drum to make room for the kickdrum.

* You have to do some voice overs. You set the voice to trigger the compressor and you put the compressor on your music track. Result is called "ducking", where the volume of the music will decrease when the person is speaking.

* You can set a hi hat pattern to trigger the compressor and use some long pads(you put the compressor on the pads)...It will do a gating effect that will chop up the pads...Really cool stuff.

That's about it!
I use the TC Native Bundle for that kind of stuff.

[Panopticon]

sidechain doesn't have to use a completely different source for the signal, either...you can also use an EQ band to trigger, but ducking is generally the most useful aspect of sidechaining.

[Timo]

Yup, slapping an EQ unit into the side-chain lets you control which frequencies will dominate the compressor action. Placing a graphic eq into the side-chain and boosting the high freq bands, for example, will make the compressor duck more when HFs are present = resulting in a "de-hisser" type action.
Likewise, attenuating the lower freq bands will stop the low end dominating the compressor action (seeing as LFs are the most powerful), resulting in less of a severe compression effect when heavy LFs are present. (Like kick drums, or bass lines, which would otherwise kill the rest of the audio spectrum as the compressor reacts to the most powerful signals - the LFs - more than any others, especially when a single-band compressor is being used).

This next link is a MUST READ. It discusses the more artistic side of compressor (and especially side-chain) usage, turning an otherwise single-character compressor into many others:

The Compressor's Secrets (http://www.audiomedia.com/archive/features/us-0600/us-0600-hiddencomp/us-0600-hiddencomp.htm) (and in PDF format (http://www.audiomedia.com/archive/features/uk-0399/uk-0399-hidden/uk-0399-hidden.pdf) which includes the illustrations).

An absolutely fantastic article.

[Onkel Dunkel]

Isn?t side-chaining the the same as they use on radio stations when they talk over the music?

[Timo]

Isn?t side-chaining the the same as they use on radio stations when they talk over the music?

Yep, there's loads of different uses.

To talk over the music, though, you need two copies of the talk/voice-mic signal. One to go into the sidechain of the music you wish to duck, and the other copy of the voice-mic signal will need to be mixed over the compressor output (the freshly ducked music signal output).

[Gopal]

Can someone be a little more specific in how to actually set one up please. I have the TC Sidechainer But if I put it over the bass, how do I tell it that its the Kick channel I want it to trigger from !?!

Help here would be much appreciated

[Panopticon]

Can someone be a little more specific in how to actually set one up please. I have the TC Sidechainer But if I put it over the bass, how do I tell it that its the Kick channel I want it to trigger from !?!

Help here would be much appreciated
I haven't used the TC, so I'm not familiar with it, but on a sidechain compressor you'll either have a specific area to specify the sidechain input; or on some stereo compressors, they become mono when you sidechain, and the left channel becomes the compressor trigger input and the right channel becomes the audio input (to be compressed). It probably says in the manual.

[hatembr]

thanks a lot for the answers m8s !!
gonna give it a try ;)

[MADSTATION]

Gopal: Put the Sidechainer plugin on your kick. Then put the Compressor DeEsser on your bass and select "1" as the source.

[Drammy]

If looking for a nice, cheep but good compressor with Sidechaining - I recommend the Crunchessor from Voxengo...

You need VST2.3 though (I think) Cubase SX2 is 2.3 compatible


Drammy

[jasedee]

Gopal: Put the Sidechainer plugin on your kick. Then put the Compressor DeEsser on your bass and select "1" as the source.
Seems though that there is only a choice of 1 or 2 for the source in the Compressor/De-esser. Does this mean you can only use the Sidechainer plugin on two instruments in your mix?

[MADSTATION]

jasedee: You can load as many instances as you want but there is a limit of 2 sources for 1 compressor plugin.

[Gopal]

Thanks alot Mad, thats cracked it :lol:

[jasedee]

jasedee: You can load as many instances as you want but there is a limit of 2 sources for 1 compressor plugin.
The thing is....I load the sidechainer on one channel, the compressor/de-esser on another, but how do I know which is going to which??? Especially if I have more than one instance

Sorry if Im sounding ignorant here, I've never used sidechaining in the digital domain, only on analogue gear.

[Drammy]

Label the channels correctly.

For instance in Cubase > mixer view you can double click the name at the bottom and edit it so instead of saying Group 1 it could say Bass / Kick ducking

Are you using Cubase?


Drammy

[jasedee]

Yeah....SX2

So the channels that you want to duck have to be in the same group?

[hatembr]

found this link :

http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/29974/forum/2/start/15
http://www.mantikonline.com/art_sc.htm

enjoy ;)

[Drammy]

SX2 will do fine.

This is the way I do it with Crunchessor.

Stereo Bass Channel > Quad Group Channel 1 (panned front and center)

Stereo Kick Channel > Quad Group Channel 1 (panned rear and center)
Stereo Kick Channel > Aux send to Master Out (this is the real kick out as you won't hear the kick going through Group Channel 1)

Place Cruncehessor on Group Channel 1

Turn SC on in Crunchessor and you should find that the kick ducks the Bass, whist the kick gets send via the aux send to the master out.


Hope this makes sense. I am not sure if the TC Works stuff operates the same way but I suppose it can be used this way.

Drammy[/b]

[jasedee]

Cheers Drammy!......I actually still dont know what you are talking about, but the link in Hatembrs post was quite clear and detailed, and I get it now.

[Drammy]

Oh well, perhaps the TC works compressors work a different way...

[hatembr]

i tried sidechaining with Waves C1 sc, it is cool with bass/kick , i also tried the pad/hihat effect but it didn't seem to make any notable effect, may be i missed something, got to give it another try ;)

I followed Mantik tutorial, it is easy and clear.

[Drammy]

I see what you guys are on about now - I have just read the mantic tutorial.

I have been doing this for a while now and the mantic method works fine for mono channels as the output from the sidechain group is mono - although it is a stereo channel. Which is fine for bass.

But hatembr it you're trying to duck a pad with a hat you would be much better of doing it in stereo.

This is done in a similar way to the mantic tutorial but instead of using a stereo channel for the "sidechain channel" you need to use a quad channel - when you click add group channel in cubase you are presented with a dialog box and a drop down which normally reads stereo, click the drop down and you will find quad channel (as well as all the surround options).

Once you have a quad channel you send the Hat to the rear center of it and the pad to the front center. This will mean that the hat won't be heard so you also need to set up and aux send to send the hat to the master buss.

The compressor that sits on the quad channel will now output in true stereo, as long as the compressor is a true sidechaining compressor (if it shows a L->R option you will want to change it to L+R).


I hope that makes more sense than my last attempt.

Drammy

[hatembr]

right , thanks for the tip drammy, but C1 doesn't offer that L+R option, unless you use another comrpessor for this purpose.

[Drammy]

Pity...

For side compression I use Crunchessor from Voxengo, although I also use Compadre. Both have full sidechaining functionality and filters on the sidechain - meaning I can but a drum loop in as the source but tell the compressor to only duck when the kick plays - very useful...


Drammy

[mantik]

thanks for progressive ideas drammy, will check that plug out.

[Trance Explorer]

Gopal: Put the Sidechainer plugin on your kick. Then put the Compressor DeEsser on your bass and select "1" as the source.

Ive just tried this but the input on compressor DeEsser doesnt let me select anything.

Has anyone one else got it to work?

[Gopal]

I haven't actually got this to work either.

Can't see how to select an input on the Compresser/DeEsser :?

[Menis]

Yup, slapping an EQ unit into the side-chain lets you control which frequencies will dominate the compressor action. Placing a graphic eq into the side-chain and boosting the high freq bands, for example, will make the compressor duck more when HFs are present = resulting in a "de-hisser" type action.
Likewise, attenuating the lower freq bands will stop the low end dominating the compressor action (seeing as LFs are the most powerful), resulting in less of a severe compression effect when heavy LFs are present. (Like kick drums, or bass lines, which would otherwise kill the rest of the audio spectrum as the compressor reacts to the most powerful signals - the LFs - more than any others, especially when a single-band compressor is being used).

This next link is a MUST READ. It discusses the more artistic side of compressor (and especially side-chain) usage, turning an otherwise single-character compressor into many others:

The Compressor's Secrets (http://www.audiomedia.com/archive/features/us-0600/us-0600-hiddencomp/us-0600-hiddencomp.htm) (and in PDF format (http://www.audiomedia.com/archive/features/uk-0399/uk-0399-hidden/uk-0399-hidden.pdf) which includes the illustrations).

An absolutely fantastic article.

Thanks for the info - the links dont seem to work anymore though

[Timo]

Googling for it gets you the PDF

http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/bookshelf/CompressorSecrets.pdf

... but this version doesn't have the diagrams. They weren't really that important though.

[juno_nuno]

im making all my Schain tasks with a db audioware mastering pack...im not much of a sidechain creative musician...use it more to contain!!

Check it out its really good ;)


P.S.: direct X only :( !!!