a weird thing is happening on my cubase :o)

[hatembr]

ok i have sx 2.2

and here is what i find abnormal:

i run a kick on a mono channel; it hits +2.6dB on that mono one but 00dB on the master !!
it clips on its own channel, but doesnt on the master!

it this normal ??? :roll:

[Doc Jones]

nope, not normal. This is without a limiter or some type of compressor on the master buss? Does this happen with all other tracks as well?

[Drammy]

Have you got an aux send from the kick going to the master buss as well?

[hatembr]

i have absolutely nothing :?

just a new project project where i've inserted a kick on a mono channel



here is a screenshot and the kick wave file :

pic: http://www.soundlabz.com/misc/ss1.jpg
pic: http://www.soundlabz.com/misc/ss2.jpg
kick: http://www.soundlabz.com/misc/psy_kick.wav

[Doc Jones]

That's really interesting. ok, I am going to try to replicate it when I get home with the kick file you posted. by chance, have you posted this over at the cubase forums as well? Also, what patch version are you running for sx 2.2?

[MADSTATION]

Try posting at Cubase.net, very nice community over there!

[ten]

Have you got the the kick set as 'meter input' and the master as 'meter post fader' ? set globally as post fader.

ten

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Digital recording is such a head fuck. Move over to tape and you'll enjoy the distortion a whole lot more :lol:

But on a serious note....Im constantly battling levels on my mixer and within Cubase SX. Especially now that i run sounds through my lexicon...I swear to god it has some kinda low output stage ARGHHHHH.....I just dont understand. After uni I really need to go college and get clued up on this technology

DS

[hatembr]

any one tried the same thing with the kick i've posted ? :?

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

How do u take photos of ur desktop?

DS

[ten]

any one tried the same thing with the kick i've posted ? :?

Did you try what I suggested?

Are the meters set to 'meter input' or 'meter post fader'

set them all to post fader.

ten

[hatembr]

any one tried the same thing with the kick i've posted ? :?

Did you try what I suggested?

Are the meters set to 'meter input' or 'meter post fader'

set them all to post fader.

ten

i didn't try that yet, i am still at work! but i'll do it as soon as i go home!

[jasedee]

any one tried the same thing with the kick i've posted ? :?
Yup....Does the same thing with my Cubase SX2.2 aswell.

I dont see what the issue is though....pull your fader down! Then the kick doesnt clip on its channel.

As far as the whole channel clipping but not masters, thats quite normal. Think about it on a real console...just cos a channel is clipping, doesnt mean the masters outs are.

No need to panic.

:)

Jase

[hatembr]

ok so i think it is a bug in cubase, but which is correct, the channel or the master? we will never know it unless one tries to do the same thing on a different sequencer than SX2.2.

When i pull down the level so that the kick hits 0dB, the master falls to around -1.6dB, which is not logical niether, it should fall to "minus the_max_level_reached_by_the_kick".
And also, the level of the kick falls significatly, causing the level of the whole mix to fall too :?

[MADSTATION]

I can try tonight on SX3.02!
Just make sure to try what TEN said..I once had this problem and I did what Ten said and it fixed it for me :)

[hatembr]

I can try tonight on SX3.02!
Just make sure to try what TEN said..I once had this problem and I did what Ten said and it fixed it for me :)

sure i will try it, although i think it is not by chance jasedee had the same problem than me with the same sample....

[hatembr]

ok i've checked what TEN said and both the master nad the channel are set to POST FADER :? btw, this is set globally for all the channels, you can set them differently.

and the same thing happens with another kick, the mono channel hits +1.6dB while the master hits only -1.8dB

[jasedee]

Seems when I download the kick it is stereo???

Try panning the kick hard left/right and see where the masters levels hit :)

[MADSTATION]

I just did a test...
Like Jasedee said, the kick is stereo. Convert it to mono(right click in the pool and select convert then mono).
Everything is fine when using the same in mono :)

[hatembr]

yessss!

it's fixed now ;)

thanks a lot m8s !

[melnikov_project]

there is 1 more thing that doing it ...and yes u kick must be in mono and not stereo for best sound...
go to project setup in cubase and remove the -3db pan option...

this should make ur mono kick sound good and no clips ..and also show u the right lvls in master...

[grs]

There is nothing wrong with clipping a channel in VST. Only clipping the master outs will you hear a distortion. This is because of the 32bit mixing engine. The reason for the disparency is because of the panning law, which you should leave at -6 or -3 and not 0 because pans sound better when the volume is brought down as it passes through the middle. It just sounds better and more 'hardware like'.
Another example of the good thing about the 32 bit mixing engine is if you have many loud channels all going into a bus. When the buss clips you could go and turn down all the channels or just lower the buss until there is no more clipping.

[jasedee]

The reason for the disparency is because of the panning law, which you should leave at -6 or -3 and not 0 because pans sound better when the volume is brought down as it passes through the middle. It just sounds better and more 'hardware like'.
Thats interesting!

So even with kicks, snares etc, you always pan them slightly off centre???

Surely that would sound a little strange??? Especially if your monitoring is set up properly.

Is this SX specific or software sequencers in general?

[grs]

I never said pan your kiks or snare off center, I was just pointing out the 'panning law' in cubase and the point about not worring about channel clips only watch the output buss clips.

[jasedee]

I never said pan your kiks or snare off center, I was just pointing out the 'panning law' in cubase and the point about not worring about channel clips only watch the output buss clips.
Woah! I certainly missed the point in that one...

Sorry dude, It's sunday night, just smoked a fat one and Im obviously not in any state to be posting

:?

[grs]

This is true inside 32bit mixing apps. Nuendo and Cubase are some of them, also my Scope ver4 mixer by Creamware has 32bit mixer. Also my RME total mix is a 40bit mixer. I havent tried it but Sonar I think has a 64bit mix buss (hmm, could be bothered googling it while typing here).

One day I made a sine wave in wavelab that was 100% big ie it touched but not clipped 0 and put it though a fader in VST and tried all these things even bussing it to group tracks and various routings in RME total mix. Just to know what clips to worry about and what not to.
Basically you've got 6db to play with inside an app but not when it leaves an app. Also you could bounce a clipping file to disk at 32bit load it back in turn it down 6db and the the clipping was gone with no distortion. 32bit remembers 6db louder than 0.

mind numbing isnt it?

[melnikov_project]

DOOD the panning law is for amatures do not use them if u like make it more plaind space in ur mix do it ur self and never rely on some spoftware pan to do it for u...
and dont tell me that u use it in master as well.
8O 8O :twisted: :roll: