waiting for polar and was wondering.....

[nutekk]

yes im wondering if
i can run a project in nuendo 3 @ 24/96 (i usually work in this format)
and use the the plugin with the usb stream?

or would i have to use the analog outs for this?

*************UPDATE*****************

USING THE VC PLUGIN AND USB AUDIO STREAM DOES NOT
MANDATE WHAT SAMPLING RATE YOUR HOST MUST BE IN!

THE PLUGIN WILL PROVIDE THE APPROPRIATE AUDIO STREAM!!!!
THIS WHOLE POST IS NOW VOID.
8)
*************UPDATE*****************


For other rates, like using a 96kHz project, the Virus Control does provide you with an appropriate audio stream.

The Virus will not prevent you using your prefered project environment. Just try it.
tk



:D :D :D

[nutekk]

to clarify...

since the usb streams are 16/44
does also the project in the host have to be done @ 16/44?

if this is the case...that just plain sucks.
and quite a stupid implementation of (total intergration)

[blay]

yes it is a bit disappointing that sample rate options are limited for the time being. im sure we will see the required OS update to facilitate this soon enough...

cheers

blay

[nutekk]

so it isnt possible!

wow thats really sad 8O

it most definatly has to do with the availible bandwidth with
USB

24/96 requires more..
wonder if they have even the headroom for it :x

this makes me seriously reconsider my purchase.

hate working @ 16/44

[Sleepwalker]

so it isnt possible!

wow thats really sad 8O

it most definatly has to do with the availible bandwidth with
USB

24/96 requires more..
wonder if they have even the headroom for it :x

this makes me seriously reconsider my purchase.

hate working @ 16/44

its usb 1, should have been usb 2 instead, then itd work! Strange decission to make from access...

[melnikov_project]

just u to know
that none of the big pro's aren't workin with 24/96
all work in 24/44 or 16/44
why becouse the final cd is in this format and what happens when u plays in converting 1 to another the qualety fukess up ..so all ur effort evantualy gone..
consider my post...
and maybe only maybe im wrong and it does have some advantges in it???!!!
:twisted: :twisted: :idea:

[Khazul]

I think alot of people seem to start with everything maxed (96, 192 or whatever their computer will go upto) then over time eventually realise that it just isnt worth the hassle and slowly fall back down to 48 or even 44.1 because then the PC/Mac can handle so many more channels and is generally alot less stressed.

Most of you digital sounds sources are probably 44.1 anyway at best (digital synths). Theres quite a few outboard processors that work at 96 which is maybe useful with EQs and Enhancers, but no big deal for most fx processors.

I run Cubase SX and everything in the direct digital chain at 44.1 these days - its just so much easier and everything just works reliably - if some dodgy plugin does happen to sound noticeably crap at this sample rate - then fine - Ill use something else.

Also until the sound is in my mixer (which effectively means computer as well) - I use analog signals everywhere - its just easier and consistent and patch bay friendly. Noise isnt an issue with careful wiring. Someone once commented "oh yeh cool - for that extra 'analogue warmth'". Im just thinking FFS...! No not for 'analogue warmth' - its cos it just works and no interconnect issues :)

I have a friend who runs a commercial studio - his approach is pretty much the same except that they dont track direct to a computer - instead track to multi-track hard disc recorders then upload to computer. The extra step is just because hard disc recorder tend to be guaranteed to be glicth free - computers aint. Incidently - those hard disc recorders are probably running at 44.1.

[nutekk]

actually i usually always work in 32/96
there are HUGE advantages.

im surely thinking of canceling because of this.
it sucks i was looking so forward to the polar. :?

crazy that for you to use the total intergration
you have to work @ 16/44

most vsti synths do 96k
the difference in sound is staggering.

what a shame.Its because of the damn usb1!
should have been firewire

i would even be happy with 1 96k stream

damn :cry:

[nutekk]

but it is not possible to
run the host program @ 96k
and have the usb stream @44???

that wont work right?

[xerxes_]

you keep saying working in 24/96 is such a huge advantage. tell me what these are? as someone else just mentioned, mastered CDs are 16/44, how the hell can it then benefit you working at different bitrates etc.

i know some mastering studios want the source in 32-bit float etc, but i think you can export it as this format AFTER actually working with the project in 16/44.

.x

[nutekk]

im not sure why i have to tell you the advantages of recording and mixing
a project higher then 16 bit.
it is widely known.

but anyway in 24 bit, you would have to mix 48 db (!!!!)
lower to equal 16 bit resolution. Digital summing busses go to pieces if you are running each channel peaking high.
it comes down to headroom.

funny alot of the music made with the virus goes to vinyl
and vinyl mastering i have dealt with let me go 24/96.

i feel i have more control over the mix @higher resolutions.
its smaller increments.higher resolution.
makes simple sence.

i wouldnt have a problem if it would let me use my host @ 96k
it wouldnt matter if the virus streams are 44k.
but the problem is i would have to turn my whole hosts resolution
down and i have gotten so used to the higher level....
so that would be a real drag.

still havent got confirmation that i cant do it..

i want the host resolution (nuendo 3)
project set for 24/96
so all my mixing and effects are done @that resolution
is it possible to have the usb streams in at there resolution of 16/44
at the same time?

if this is possible i will be not let down at all by the virus.
but im not thinking this is possible.

it is my understanding that i would have to use the host resolution of
16/44 to be able to use the "total intergration"

i hope i am wrong. and it is possible.

what i cant figure out is why have 24/192 converters if you cant use that resolution?

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

what i cant figure out is why have 24/192 converters if you cant use that resolution?

Remember the analog outputs on the TI.....they can be used you know :lol:

For those who want to use the USB feature...then you'll just have to make that comprimise I guess. If your using decent quality cable....then the difference between analog outs and digital outs should be practically in audiable.....so whats the problem? You want to embrace the Total Integration feature that bad?

Great recordings have been made using analog outs for the past 30 years....I doubt its going to affect your quality....

DS

[nutekk]

well it is called the virus ti...
and that is one of the factors that drew me to it.

no problem with using the analog outs.
but i have no room left.
i would have to get another i/o for my computer.

which in turn makes me a bit sour on it.

why do you act like it is so outrageous to be thinking this?

i know you have to justify the purchase.
but why can you not see that this lack of feature is a downer.

no you just try and explain why what i want to do isnt nessasary.
and it really isnt alot to ask for at all!

especially with a name like TI

i mean look at the current market of audio cards
they are not 16/44 cards.

it isnt the synth engin that makes me upset that would be fine
but its the fact that i will have to have my whole project at the lower rate.
that will not intergrate with how im working
or how anyone works in other then 16/44

this to me is a problem

[ben crosland]

[quote=nutekk]what i cant figure out is why have 24/192 converters if you cant use that resolution?

Because they're great convertors anyway, even at more lowly bitrates.

[nutekk]

hi Ben watched those 2 videos so often i feel like i know you :lol:

so i am right to believe that i can NOT have a host project digital rate
other than 16/44 if i want to use the USB audio streaming.?

is it likely that the Ti will get 1 24/96k stream possible?

[melnikov_project]

u dont get it
of course work with 24 bit beetter couse it give u mpre space in ur mixes....
but better and tested way to work is with 24/44 or 16/44
and after u done export to wav in 24 bit for master
and after mastering the 24 bit/44 khz u export it to 16 bit wav file and send to some vinal label :twisted: :idea: :twisted:
if u lucky u get alot of money :twisted: :twisted: :idea:
this is how its done almost everywhere....
and 1 more thing for thought :
lets say:some1 mentioned that there are major benefits and improvments in sound with 96khz///
so if what u say its thrue why almost all module racks synths work in 16/44 and u get best sound's
aaaaaaa
this is the shit..
think about it.

[F5D]

If TI works @ 44kHz, it doesn't mean that you have to work @ 16bit 44.1Khz. You can work at 24bit 44.1kHz too and that's what most of producers use. Of course it's great to test that your system can work @96kHz but it's not very cool to notice that 1 soft synth or just a few effects need all your cpu's. I prefer working at 24bit 44.1kHz, good sound quality and plenty of power to play with. Of course you can use whatever sample rate you wish but you will find more problems (the TI for example) working at 96kHz. Of course it depends on what kind of music you produce but at least electronic music doesn't benefit much from using higher sample rates. It's another story if you record a rock band or symphony orchestra and make hifi records or film music, I guess.

[technomonster]

i personally like 16 bit 44.1, the reason is it by far is the toughest sounding.

a nice tough edge - to knock "em

[Timo]

The TI soundcard and Virus sound-engine integrated element uses just 16-bits?

[nutekk]

yup thats right!
hey but all these people say you dont need higher bit
rates!

in fact work at 24/44
and then convert it later!

what a bunch of rubish!
you like 16/44 because it has a tuff edge?
please any tuff edge will sound just as tuff @ a HIGHER RATE

people are a funny bunch.

doent really matter...for me and the way i work
this is a big problem
and i have canceled my order because of it.

its funny its not so obvious that this is the case with the TI
it only totally intergrates if you work @ 16/44

but according to most here you dont even need anything higher...
in fact im probably an idiot for going higher.

yea sure

[MADSTATION]

nutekk: I totally understand your frustration(especially when I read the comment from technomonster) but I think you might have missed the point. When using the analog outs you CAN work in 24bits(and you can still use VControl to control any parameters)...the restriction only applys when using the USB AUDIO channels.

[nutekk]

yea im glad you can see what im saying.
ive switched to mixing 24/96 last year and havent looked back since.

the only problem with working at the high rate is that it
uses alot of cpu cycles.
so in order to compensate for this i want to get a few hardware synths
so i wont have to use so many vsti and take the load of of my pc.

so the virus ti got me very excited.its an audio interface
a control surface, a badass synth engin and a good looker too.

but to use it at a 24/96 rate i would have to use the analog outs!
problem is i have a pulsar soundcard with only 1 set of analog inputs.
the rest are didgital (16)

so some of the luster has worn thin...i cant just plug it up and intergrate it
without buying another sound card.

so using the analog outs...the usb just tranfers midi data
could have just used a midi cable for that~

to me this is a misrepresentation of what it was.
it is only "TI" when you are running @ 16/44
i dont think this is what they initially intended.
for sure if they continue with the "TI" line
the next one will be able to do the higher rate.

the benefits of mixing and recording at higher rates then 16/44
are easy to hear...no matter what the medium.
even if going to cd.
do some research and you will find it to be true.

dont kid yourself the future is higher rates then 16/44

[ben crosland]

the benefits of mixing and recording at higher rates then 16/44
are easy to hear...no matter what the medium.
even if going to cd.


Easy to hear for some people, but 99% of the buying public couldn't care less, I can assure you. Especially being as a good deal of them probably listen to most of their music in mp3 format now..

[nutekk]

yea im glad you can see what im saying.
ive switched to mixing 24/96 last year and havent looked back since.

the only problem with working at the high rate is that it
uses alot of cpu cycles.
so in order to compensate for this i want to get a few hardware synths
so i wont have to use so many vsti and take the load of of my pc.

so the virus ti got me very excited.its an audio interface
a control surface, a badass synth engin and a good looker too.

but to use it at a 24/96 rate i would have to use the analog outs!
problem is i have a pulsar soundcard with only 1 set of analog inputs.
the rest are didgital (16)

so some of the luster has worn thin...i cant just plug it up and intergrate it
without buying another sound card.

so using the analog outs...the usb just tranfers midi data
could have just used a midi cable for that~

to me this is a misrepresentation of what it was.
it is only "TI" when you are running @ 16/44
i dont think this is what they initially intended.
for sure if they continue with the "TI" line
the next one will be able to do the higher rate.

the benefits of mixing and recording at higher rates then 16/44
are easy to hear...no matter what the medium.
even if going to cd.
do some research and you will find it to be true.

dont kid yourself the future is higher rates then 16/44

[nutekk]

the benefits of mixing and recording at higher rates then 16/44
are easy to hear...no matter what the medium.
even if going to cd.


Easy to hear for some people, but 99% of the buying public couldn't care less, I can assure you. Especially being as a good deal of them probably listen to most of their music in mp3 format now..


this is such a crappy attitude.
im shocked. 8O

[ben crosland]

the benefits of mixing and recording at higher rates then 16/44
are easy to hear...no matter what the medium.
even if going to cd.


Easy to hear for some people, but 99% of the buying public couldn't care less, I can assure you. Especially being as a good deal of them probably listen to most of their music in mp3 format now..


this is such a crappy attitude.
im shocked. 8O

It's not an attitude - it's an observation.

[nutekk]

that is rubish.
you have met with and discussed with 99% of the buying public
please!
as stated before it doesnt matter what the target media may be
mp3,cd, or vinyl
it still makes a difference if you mix @ a higher rate.

this "attitude" is negative.
and imo shouldnt be coming from a company such as access
who i thought were dedicated towards sound.
it seems though they havent been paying attention...
and goofed the "ti" aspect of the synth

im not saying it isnt a great sounding synth.
im am saying that "TI" shouldnt have been the name

and you should make customers aware that
if they are planning on using the "ti audio" feature
you will have to set your hosts to 16/44

i would have been really upset if my purchase was final.

[ben crosland]

I am not an Access employee, so my statement should not be taken as a reflection of their 'attitude'.

[nutekk]

yea.......... :roll:
of course not.

[technomonster]

to NUTTEK AND MADSTATION

i really apologise!!!!!! for my silly
i personally like 16 bit 44.1, the reason is it by far is the toughest sounding.

a nice tough edge - to knock "em

comment.

what you say about the future being higher rates is so true, and i am scared of it.
but still i can hear a difference between 16 bit and even 24 bit.
its just that in my layman opinion the higher bit rates sound more beautiful and clearer - in a way, and i am a rough bastard. give me 8 bit - yeah

also i am not too fussed about the USB audio part as i adore the full
VA SYNTH hardware sound with the good old D/A converters feel to it.
I am myself just worried about how long it will work with my good ol' LOGIC 5.5.1.

I know already that the TI is up there with the greatest sounding synths ever made if not the greatest. i just hope i can get to use it straight away and worry about changing my recording program in the far future.

The wavetable sounds demos if the tunes used lower registers would have shown what a new world it is capable of. I often musk around with a ROLAND V-SYNTH at the shop , but the texture of the VIRUS TI wavetable is really different.

anyway sorry about upsetting you, your pursuits for quality is great.

i should actually start a topic for 16 bit vs higher bits.
in another part of this FORUM. i believe it changes the aesthetics and recording really should utilise this aesthetics idea.

[nutekk]

yea of course man
i usually end up dithering some sounds in the mix
even down to 8 bit! sounds raunchy agood in contrast to some
clean pad or something.

hey the powercore can do 32/96 from what i understand.
maybe this is a viable option for those wanting to use
the totally unuseful higher sampling rates.

[tk]

hey the powercore can do 32/96 from what i understand.
maybe this is a viable option for those wanting to use
the totally unuseful higher sampling rates.

The powercore plugins CAN do 96kHz but they do not do 32 bit resolution.

warning: heavy tech babble and personal meaning ahead

Actually, nothing that is using VST does work in 32 bits.

VST works with audio data coded in 32 bit floats. The standard describes the audio signal as in a range from 1.0f to -1.0f.

The (single precision) "float" datatype is a 32bit construct with a 1bit sign, 8 bit exponent and a 23 bit mantissa ( or fraction).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_floating-point_standard

Because the exponent is always 1 (-1.0 to 1.0) you have left 24 bits to express your "level" (23 bit fraction/1bit sign). Therefore you do not have actually any advantage, in terms of "bit depth", in float DSPs (like i.e. the shark DSP) vs. 24bit DSPs (like the motorola ones).

I have to admit that this is not totally true since a there are values where the fraction is the same and the exponent shifts, but the precision gain in this is less than audible at all and also not guaranteed for all possible values within the range [-1,1].

Of course this is source of a lot of philosophical discussions, meanings and even flamewars, which I don't want either to bring up nor take part of.

tk

-this post is of course not an official statement of access music gmbh-

[jasedee]

Why all the fighting????

Use whatever makes you happy! THE END!!!!!!!!! :)

[nutekk]

yo jasede i dont know who is fighting?

so the virus|powercore can do then 24/96?
think im more concerned with sampling rate and not bit depth.
24/32 in most hosts as you say doesnt really matter.

[Timo]

Hmm, bit-depth is usually considered more pertinent than higher sample-rates, in no small respects due to the significantly greater dynamic range (and lower noise-floor).

What sort of dynamic range does the TI give when using all six streams via USB? I think 16-bits give -78dBs per channel, maximum? (six at the same time would be about -62dB, unless there's some digital compensation or mute/gate jiggery pokery going on?)

[nutekk]

i was saying the difference between 24 and 32 didnt concern
me as much as being able to do 96k

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

that is rubish. You have met with and discussed with 99% of the buying public please!

Have you?

as stated before it doesnt matter what the target media may be mp3,cd, or vinyl it still makes a difference if you mix @ a higher rate

Unless you have a ?4000 medium to high-end hifi you wont really benefit from ultra high quality recordings.

this "attitude" is negative and imo shouldnt be coming from a company such as access who i thought were dedicated towards sound

Of course Access is dedicated towards the sound. You like the sound of their synths dont you? They must be doing something right

it seems though they havent been paying attention...and goofed the "ti" aspect of the synth

Since they are the only manufacturer to have attempted to implement this....i dont think its fair to say they've goofed the 'TI' aspect. In real terms they've achieved it.....initially in a slightly limited way. Hence, I'll be waiting for the version which does implement the feature fully. No one put a gun to your head to buy the TI....you knew what your buying....hell you've had 9 months to think it through.

im not saying it isnt a great sounding synth. im am saying that "TI" shouldnt have been the name

What would you have called it then?

PS - im not getting at you....just trying to ascertain how you see things...

DS

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

the benefits of mixing and recording at higher rates then 16/44
are easy to hear...no matter what the medium.
even if going to cd.


Easy to hear for some people, but 99% of the buying public couldn't care less, I can assure you. Especially being as a good deal of them probably listen to most of their music in mp3 format now..


this is such a crappy attitude.
im shocked. 8O

LOL.....but what Ben is saying is actually the way it is. Your not going to hear any audiable difference (whilst listening to a 192kbps mp3) from a track originally recorded on a quality 16/44 soundcard to that of some 24/96 card. The dynamic range of mp3 just wont allow for it. Secondly, your only going to hear a difference when playing a CD if you have a medium to hi-end hifi (circa ?3000+). I know this...as im into hifi and can 'hear' the difference. YOur average jo bloggs sits at home with their ?300 mini system....sorry to burst the bubble....but all you get from those kinda mass produced hifi's is sonic distortion.

You live in a world where you want pristine sound quality....thats great...I feel the same way....but as Ben hinted...and from what i know....most people arent living in the same sonic world as you or I. Sound card manufacturers love to bombard you with specs....but as a final thought...a high quality 16.44 soundcard pisses on a cheaper 24/96 card. Im not too familiar with the pulsar card...but it sounds like it sits in the sub ?1000 budget category.

Plz dont take offence to my comments....your entitled to yours as I am.

DS

[nutekk]

ok..

have i spoke with 99percent of the buying public?
no and i dont claim to have!

higher bit/rate mixing and recording benifits the producer hugely.
thus making the finished product better for the end user.
i know i attain a better control with less work @ higher rates.
dont act like noone uses higher rates because it is simply not true.

yes there synths are a staple.however for someone that does all there demoing and stuff to "say the public doesnt care about quality
because they listen to mp3" doesnt sound like a good attitude to me.
i despise mp3 and never listen to them...i must be the only one
so because people listen to mp3 it doesnt matter that the "ti audio function" isnt able to support a standard that is supported by even crappy vsti...and sound blaster live cards!

please! ever heard of "waldorf microwave pc".
i own one and it came out in 1999.
it is the guts of an XT mounted in a 5 1/4 drive bay that interfaces with
the computer and you control it with a plugin interface
a full 10 voices-
hardware keyboard quality latency
full hardware compatibility.
no cpu cycle stealing
I love the unit...which is why i wanted to go for the same type of thing
for the virus.

again i would not call it a TI
because its intergration is quite limited.
if you are buying it for just the synth then im sure you will be happy
but if you are buying it for the "intergration"
dont plan on working on anything but 16/44 intergrated
other than that the intergration is a usb cable instead of a midi one.

jesus
my problems arent off the wall.
it doesnt say anywhere in the documentation that your host has to be set
to 16/44.
Everyone doesnt work @ 16/44
again take a look at the audio cards that have come out in the last 2 three
even 4 years. all higher bit rate compatible....
this is no little sect of recording producers.it is the present and future.

if access continues with the "ti" line which i think they should
version 2
will correct these core flaws in the total intergration aspect.

[nutekk]

and i dont want pristine sound quality.

the higher bit rates make my job as a producer easyer.
plain and simple.

common im not the only one mixing @ 24/96 PLEEEASE!

[nutekk]

and last i checked i was producing music for dancefloors.
not for some jo blogg with a boombox
and the only thing that burst my buble was the limitation
of the total intergration.
sorry to say it.but its true.
if you love it im happy for you.It is a beast
but it isnt all it claims..but of course they use the perfect wording
hell i thought the thing was gonna be capable of freakin 192!!!
i thought this is great i can try that out.

the slicker your sound tha better.
and it has been my experiance(and plenty of others)that i can achieve a better sound mixing @ 24/96.
theres really should be real no argument there.

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Nut....

In principle i dont disagree with you....im always out for good recordings...but until SACD is embraced by the buying public then the benfits of higher rates will always be curtailed. I would love the virus ti to ultimately run at 24/192 through Mlan....but we're some ways off that....

But remember.....most synths internal engines run at 24/44 the nord 2x being the exception (which runs at 24/96)...and you have to use analog outs. So why cant you use the Virus TI's 24/192 internal engine through the analog outs? Yes, perhaps you need an audio interface with 8 ins and outs...

DS

[nutekk]

well thats the point with the ti i thought i wouldnt have to buy an additional
io because mine only has 1 analog in/out and 16 digital.

and you miss the point.
i dont care if the soundsource is 16/44
it is the mixing and digital summing i want in 24/96

but if you want to use the total intergration
you are forced to work @ 16/44

[nutekk]

funny noone has even confirmed that it isnt or is possible

i want to load my host and set its mixing and recording rate to
24/96.
i then want to use the total intergration to stream 4 streams into
the computer.
is it possible?

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

i dont care if the soundsource is 16/44 it is the mixing and digital summing i want in 24/96

Ok, but what benefit is there of recording something at 24/96 when its source is 'only' 16/44?

As a hifi analogy....thats like using a ?2000 amplifier on a ?200 CD player. Since the CD player is the most fundemental component of any hifi (it reads the data from the disk...and information lost at this stage cannot be recovered later on down the chain i.e. amplifier/speakers) it makes sense to have more money invested in a pristine CD player and a lesser amplifier.

Im just trying to logically understand why you place so much emphasis on 24/96 recordings when your sources are less than this (particualrly digital sources)

As a side note...if you were recording using analog synths...then id agree with you....but we're talking about digital synths arent we?

Help me understand....

DS

[nutekk]

man.....
why do i have to explain to you what anyone with a bit of knowledge in digital recording already knows.
goggle it or go to school or something.there is plenty of information
about the advantages of recording and mixing @ higher rates.
even if the source material and end medium is lower
plenty of it ...
im glad it sparked your interest.

[jasedee]

Nut...

I still cant figure out why you dont just use the analogue outs??? I know your soundcard only has stereo In, but is this in use ALL the time???? Cant you just get a small patch bay, and patch in the Virus Ti when you have finished with your MIDI parts and ready to bounce to audio?????? And then patch back in whatever is using it up all the time.

Surely that is not a hassle. Then you get to work in 24/96.

[nutekk]

yes unfortunatly it is most all the time in use.
this is why i thought the TI was going to be just what i needed
i wouldnt have to fuss around with another i/o
it is an i/o

unfortunatly it is a weak i/o :(

and the argument that cd are just 16 bit anyway holds little relavence these days
because current dithering algorythms allow for cd audio signals
on par with 20bit or greater.

[jasedee]

yes unfortunatly it is most all the time in use.
So how about buying a patch bay???? I know this is not the answer you are looking for, but it is a way that you can continue to work in 24/96 and use the new Virus!

Edit: How come the Inputs are in use ALL the time??? Is it because you have no external mixer????

[nutekk]

i have been using a smallish dj mixer
for just master volume control
lately i have been mixing 100% internal

the analog input is always being used to feed my computer my
turntables.

i could get a patch bay..
but this isnt why i was purchasing the ti
it was because i thought i could just plug the usb cable in
and have the audio routed right into my host.
this made it very attractive to a person with a lack of
analog inputs.
i could mix outboard,i could get a patchbay,i could buy an additional i/o
but i though it was supposed to intergrate.

no big deal i have no vendetta against access
it is a huge sounding synth

but to try and downplay the problem that you are forced to set your host
at 16/44 to use the "total intergration" is silly
its named after it for christ sake

and to try and make me out to be some kind of fringe type of user
is also silly.
plenty of others will be disapointed by this.

[wildbill]

nutekk: i agree with some of your points, i think it's a case of 'let the buyer beware', and i don't blame you for being angry.

i think it's a case of misunderstanding USB. i'm not that familiar with it, but i thought it was only capable of sending 2 stereo streams of audio.

if it's capable of two 16/44.1 streams, it seems there should be some kind of 'ADAT SMUX' (or whatever) fix.

in other words, maybe the whole usb bandwidth could somehow be used to transfer one stereo stream of 24/96 - but i guess it's not there yet, and maybe never will be.

i went back to the Access site and read the specs over several times.

they justifiably repeat the fact that it has 24/192 analog converters.

they also state that it's USB2 compatible.

for someone like myself who doesn't know 'all that much' about it, i naturally assumed it would be capable of doing 24/96 over usb.

apparently that's not the case.

i always set my projects at 32/44.1 in cubase. it's my understanding that the floating point 32 bit gives you extra 'headroom' to avoid 'rounding errors' when using processing and fx and whatever.
this supposedly gives you a more accurate signal too dither down to 16 bits.
i defintely can hear the difference when recording at 16 or 24 bits. the 'airiness' of 96 versus 48 or 44.1 is much less apparent to me.

i guess it boils down to 'i'm a little disappointed that the TI can't send 24/96 over usb.'

ya, in the end, it's up to the user to know that kind of stuff and access has no real responsibility to disclose it, but i think it would have helped them rather than possibly pissing people off, had they done so.

[nutekk]

thanks for getting the name right :D

yea from reading the specs i would have never known.
still there is no official answer!

yes one 24/96 stream would be nice!
i would reconsider the purchase right away.
but i dont think its going to be possible.

cheers and enjoy the virus!

[obliterations]

Ok, So forgive me for jumping in this. Did someone says you have to have your host set at 16/44 for the virus Ti to work correctly? Is this true, cause I didnt see it in the book. Also I've had my g5/logic 7 set to the "24bit recording" could this be why My Virus timing is lagging?

thanks

[nutekk]

you would probably be best off ignoring the ti function all togather
and use a midi cable and the analog outs!
at least for now.

[ben crosland]

For the record, you are able to work at 48Khz with the TI. I know it won't be of much appeal to the 96K-heads, but still.

Nuttek, are you aware that all of the major Hollywood music production teams are still working at 44.1? Granted, it's 24/44.1, but they are not using 96. I guess it can't be that bad..

[grs]

Just to help out nutekk a bit, I agree with the 96 mixing thing and the missleading 24/192 converter and usb2 compatable sales pitch.

Bottom line is the virus engine is supposidly running at 48khz no matter what you set the asio driver at, ie it runs at 48khz or down sampled to 44.1khz for usb

Can anyone verify if you can actually do a progect at 96khz with the usb audio connection. Maybe Access could implement upsampling in the viruscontrol side after the usb has sent it over at 48Khz.

Who knows what for the analog outs. Are the analog outs running at 192Khz all the time or is it Asio driver linked? Id like them to be running at the highest rate when in use in stand-alone mode, but then will upsampling a 48Khz virus sound any better?

All these questions would be good to have as marketting specs you know.
At the very least put this shit in the manual.

[nutekk]

thats quite bold statement...
man you love talking in absolutes.
a quick google could debunk that

and if your talking about film it would be 48hz.
and even there it isnt true because they have many sources
it is all just converted.
as for music production your way off in saying that they all mix in 24/44

but no matter the ti cant do 24 bit digital at all
so whats the point.

and i never said 16/44 doesnt sound ok!
16/44 can sound great.

i will tell you it is easyer to get great results mixing @ higher rates then 16/44 which the virus ti cant do (or should i say prevents your host from doing) utilizing its total intergration feature.
which is crazy because even dodgy vsti and effects dont hold you back from this.

which is fine
becuase it is a unique synth
and you can can use the analog outs.

but if using the analog outs
the total intergration aspect becomes nothing but a mear novelty

why would i want to use a plugin when i have the hardware right infront of me?
you still have to record your midi actions the same either from the screen
or from the unit itself.so whats the deal
isnt that a reason why people buy hardware ..so they dont have to deal
with a plugin?

a librarian?
you have heard of sounddiver?
ahh the arp programing...hmm kinda sucks that you *have to use the
computer mumbojumbo to program it.

so the big advantage is midi over a usb cable and a plugin that
you can control with a mouse for whatever reason i dont know because
the hardware is right infront of you.

i guess if you had a long enouph usb cable you could put the ti in the closet so nobody can see it?
if i had one i would want to show it off!

this is the "Total Intergration" that i have been eagerly awaiting for months.

this TI aspect is what makes the deal sour.The virus synth engin is art.
but one has to think how much of the premium price am i paying for
a catch phrase "total intergration"

you could have skipped all that and put a pair of lightpipe outs on the unit. and i would be running for the unit at this price!!!
but instead its just a gimmick
and one that access didnt need at all :cry:

[ben crosland]

thats quite bold statement...
man you love talking in absolutes.
a quick google could debunk that

and if your talking about film it would be 48hz.
and even there it isnt true because they have many sources
it is all just converted.
as for music production your way off in saying that they all mix in 24/44

Well, this information came straight from someone who works in the industry. What can I say?

*shrugs*

[nutekk]

man your being sort of a mook.
instead of confirming any of this
you choose to make useless comments

"Can anyone verify if you can actually do a progect at 96khz with the usb audio connection"

that would be helpful.

[nutekk]

to clarify...

since the usb streams are 16/44
does also the project in the host have to be done @ 16/44?


this is the question! my first post
but no answers

[nutekk]

and furthermore!!!!!! :o

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Nutekk

Quit your winning....just use the Virus Ti's analog outs. Fuck the integration bit.....just get on with it. Dont feel too hard done by....

Your stressing over nothing - you either want a Virus or you dont. You just seem to be looking for reasons not to buy. Ok, in your opinion the Ti side of things seems to dissapoint you....well you could always wait a couple of years for the MKII which im sure will address the concerns. Alternatively you could just view this new Virus as a mega powerful version of whats gone before. With the TI bit aside....its still a powerful synth. Ah, but alas....your going to need more inputs....awe :lol:

The TI spec is set....thats how it is. Im not even buying the TI and i have no ambiguity over the specs. If you read carefully....Access never specifically claimed 'this' or 'that'.

DS

[Khazul]

It did occur to me that the TI audio over USB for me is running at 48KHz, and yet I am running Cubase at 44.1KHz.

So maybe there is your answer. I dont really want to mess with the Cubase sample rate to try what happen at 96K as it means re-configuring a whole long chaing of master clocks and usually several power cycles and reboots before everything settles down again.

[nutekk]

Nutekk

Quit your winning....just use the Virus Ti's analog outs. Fuck the integration bit.....just get on with it. Dont feel too hard done by....

Your stressing over nothing - you either want a Virus or you dont. You just seem to be looking for reasons not to buy. Ok, in your opinion the Ti side of things seems to dissapoint you....well you could always wait a couple of years for the MKII which im sure will address the concerns. Alternatively you could just view this new Virus as a mega powerful version of whats gone before. With the TI bit aside....its still a powerful synth. Ah, but alas....your going to need more inputs....awe :lol:

The TI spec is set....thats how it is. Im not even buying the TI and i have no ambiguity over the specs. If you read carefully....Access never
specifically claimed 'this' or 'that'.

DS

yea well i need clarification befor i spend 2300 dollars on a synth
that does claim to " be leading the world in a completely new direction with musical instrument and pro-audio convergence"

and i never realized that you had to anticipate access using clever wording
as to not say this and that.

and whats it friggin to you?
i have one of these on preorder waiting for it to ship!
i need answers


tell access to go f&ck the intergration bit
and f&ck it off the cost too!
wonder how much pointless money in R&D owners have to front
for the total intergration.

mind your buisness

[nutekk]

It did occur to me that the TI audio over USB for me is running at 48KHz, and yet I am running Cubase at 44.1KHz.

So maybe there is your answer. I dont really want to mess with the Cubase sample rate to try what happen at 96K as it means re-configuring a whole long chaing of master clocks and usually several power cycles and reboots before everything settles down again.


this would be helpful!
it really shouldnt hurt anything...switching it to 96ki just for a sec to see if you get the 48k streams internally ok...
it would solve the problem

its all i want to know
and i have to fight my way with all this bs just to get
some god damn verification

for cryin out loud!

no one answers not access not ben freakin crosland
what i do get is these people that ask me questions and tell me what i want to do isnt this or that
and want me to explain why and how

and i get advise from ben crosland on how his buddy that works in the "industry" sais this and that..

please this is so unprofessional
answer the question.
it may very well work and all this is for nothing.

again im not wanting the usb stream to be @ 24/96
it is great @ 16/44
but
does this limit the host resolution in any way!


...
jesus
(and khazul im not directing this @ you...but if you feel like testing it would be great)

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

yea well i need clarification befor i spend 2300 dollars on a synth that does claim to " be leading the world in a completely new direction with musical instrument and pro-audio convergence

and i never realized that you had to anticipate access using clever wording
as to not say this and that.

and whats it friggin to you?
i have one of these on preorder waiting for it to ship!
i need answers


tell access to go f&ck the intergration bit
and f&ck it off the cost too!
wonder how much pointless money in R&D owners have to front
for the total intergration.

mind your buisness

Look man, if I were in the same position as you...id be wanting clarification aswell (so in principle...im not disagreeing with you). As far as Access using clever wording goes....yes....but this is the way capitalist society works. You should see the marketing terminology used at the launch of the Prophet 5 (on board memories!) back in 1978.

The TI integration bit is strictly true. It does integrate.....but how far that integration went should have been clear to most tech wizards when they mentioned USB1.1. Yes, your paying a high price for all the R&D thats gone into this....thats why im waiting a few years for the MKII....so that I get better value for money. Its people like you...who are spending hard earned money on the TI thats going to make the MKII something really special. Give yourself a nice pat on the back for that. Cheers!

DS :lol:

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

OK, ill stop the sarcassim now. Truth is, if i could afford a TI right now...id buy it. I'll always use analog outs......i'll do anything to eliminate fuss over recordings...

DS

[Wandering Kid]

you keep saying working in 24/96 is such a huge advantage. tell me what these are? as someone else just mentioned, mastered CDs are 16/44, how the hell can it then benefit you working at different bitrates etc.

more headroom for a start. additionally, you can work in 24 bit/96 khz and dither down to 16 bit/44 khz for cd. a dithered 24 bit to 16 bit render will *always* sound better than a straight all in 16 bit render.

ill explain. dithering is the process of adding low level noise to a recording. if you know what it is, then you know where this is heading and i need to explain no more. if you dont, ill explain for the benefit of the uninitiated.

imagine a picture in photoshop of a puppy. saved from a digital camera, its a 32 bit bitmap which is capable of displaying 16.8 million colours.

now imagine you save this file as an 8 bit 16 colour bitmap. what happens is that there are not enough colours to accurately display the puppy and instead you get flat blocks of colour in the rough shape of a puppy. hardly any detail is perceived. no individuals hairs of fur. colour changes in visible gradiants because theres only 16 available colours etc.

theres a tool in photoshop called dither and in principle its the same in sound technology. dither adds speckled noise to an image when its rerendered.

if you were to take that 32 bit, 16.8 million colour bitmap and dither it down to 8 bit and 16 colours, you would still have a 16 colour palette but you will notice that the image has more detail than the undithered render. the speckled noise creates this stipled effect - colour gradients appear smoother because of the stipling. overall there is more detail in the original image retained. you can do this with any photo provided you have a photo manipulation program that can dither and see the results yourself.

transpose that idea to digital recording. 96,000 khz recordings have double the resolution and whilst the impact that has on sound fidelity is only barely noticeable to the human ear, its much the same thing as people scrapping over the sound of a real tb-303 and a fake. the difference in sound terms in minute, not even noticeable to 99% of the human race. yet once you notice it, you CANNOT GO BACK. same deal with classic analogue synth sounds and digital clones.

additionally, you will get less phasing problems caused by aliasing which if you work with digital synthesizers IS going to happen to various degrees and in many cases you will find you have more headroom than if you worked in 16 bit and 44 khz all the way through.

overall, working in 96 khz is a good idea and i would recommend it. the only downsides are that some soundcards have less audio ins/outs when working at higher sample rates and the cpu hit is much much higher. but these are things which you can work around by changing your workflow and bouncing more often. other than that i see absolutely no reason why you should not work in 24 bit/96 khz and dither down to 16 bit when you are finished. plenty of producers and engineers have been doing precisely this for years. whilst it would be a shame if the TI couldnt stream in 24/96, i guess its not that much of a problem. just render all parts from the virus in a separate project file and import into your 24/96 project. i appreciate this would negate much of the total integration feature of the synth but come on. its not the end of the world. theres enough in this latest iteration of the virus to warrant a new hardware revision. and if you aint happy, take it back and get a second hand virus c for less than half the price. then everyone is happy.

[technomonster]

thats very intersting Wandering Kid-great stuff.

my opinion of the differences in bit rate and frequency rate, is
(firstly, increadibly layman , but here goes)

24 bit sounds slightly clearer than 16 bit, but adds to me a slight haunting
feeling.
16 bit has more of that thick silvery edge, however the sound also has a slight more 3D deepness, whether it is an artificial caused by this silveriness. still the 16 bit feel s more balanced to me.

mp3s actually hurt me because one doesnt breath as freely, when listening to them. It has an unnatural stifling. and if all music was in mp3 then i would never listen to music again.

there are frequencies that cant be heard but can definately be felt, and mp3s cut out those too much.

Infact i am certain that constant listening to mp3s will create international health problems like constipation epidemics

[F5D]

jesus
my problems arent off the wall.
it doesnt say anywhere in the documentation that your host has to be set
to 16/44.
Everyone doesnt work @ 16/44
again take a look at the audio cards that have come out in the last 2 three
even 4 years. all higher bit rate compatible....
this is no little sect of recording producers.it is the present and future.

If the virus works @16bit, it doesn't mean that your sequencer's engine and other plugins will work @ 16bit. However I'm still not sure if the TI works @ 24bit or 16bit 44.1kHz/48kHz but it doesn't matter. If the TI outputs only @ 16bit, it just is a 16bit sound. The same thing if you play 16bit samples in Logic or Cubase. The rest of the project won't get limited to 16 bits. The sample rate here is the key, not the bit depth. Sample rates must be the same. Otherwise the sound sources cannot be synced and mixed.

I respect your opinion about sample rates too, but what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't automatically mean that you have to work @ 16bits if the sample rate is 44.1kHz or 48kHz.

[Wandering Kid]

actually ben's reply was hilariously ironic. the one about mp3s.

it seems quite funny that more and more effort is expended on the kind of audiophile higher than cd quality that only a tiny proportion of the world's population will ever notice even with side by side comparison (producers and engineers mostly). and yet that effort will go into a song which will invariably get pirated a thousand times over using a compression medium that is sub cd quality. as if most people didnt already notice the difference, they sure as hell wont after that.

thats pretty ironic. i mean i dont know whether to laugh or cry at the futility of it all.

[obliterations]

I have the same results with 24bit/44.1 as I do with 16bit/44.1
The Ti seems to work fine with both settings. Just too much lag to actually use the USB while writing music.

I have come to terms with just using the midi connection and then when Im ready to record the Virus, I'll use the USB to stream the audio in. Then go in and adjust the start time of the wave/track manually. That or just use the outputs. I am bummed it wont do 48 or higher.

I still love the unit and think it sounds great. Minus the few pops and crackles.

[wildbill]

i've used several audio cards with my computers that have worked at 16, 20, and 24 bits.

but for as long as i've had access to 32 bit recording (since VST/32), i've recorded at that rate no matter what the soundcard rate was.

i guess what i'm saying is that AFAIK the interface bit depth and the recording program bit depth are independent.

i'd be very surprised to find out that it works differently with USB.

i guess the issue is at what bit depth does the TI send data thru USB?

if it's 16 bits, i would definitely use the analog outs.

[technomonster]

technomonster wrote
24 bit sounds slightly clearer than 16 bit, but adds to me a slight haunting
feeling.
16 bit has more of that thick silvery edge, however the sound also has a slight more 3D deepness, whether it is an artificial caused by this silveriness. still the 16 bit feel s more balanced to me.

mp3s actually hurt me because one doesnt breath as freely, when listening to them. It has an unnatural stifling. and if all music was in mp3 then i would never listen to music again.

there are frequencies that cant be heard but can definately be felt, and mp3s cut out those too much.

Infact i am certain that constant listening to mp3s will create international health problems like constipation epidemics

i woke up this morning and everything sounds different again. 24 bit doesnt sound too haunting, maybe one of my ears is infected again.
or maybe it always has. :wink: :wink:

[Khazul]

You need to set youself up with blind tests to work out if you can tell :)

[tk]

but no matter the ti cant do 24 bit digital at all
so whats the point.


The DPSs of the Virus TI work with 24bit. The samplerate of them is 44.1 or 48kHz, this depends on your project/ASIO settings, the Virus adapts to these rates. You can also wordclock the Virus via SPDIF.

The USB audio transfer is 16bit.

For other rates, like using a 96kHz project, the Virus Control does provide you with an appropriate audio stream.

The Virus will not prevent you using your prefered project environment. Just try it.


but if using the analog outs
the total intergration aspect becomes nothing but a mear novelty
why would i want to use a plugin when i have the hardware right infront of me?
you still have to record your midi actions the same either from the screen
or from the unit itself.so whats the deal
isnt that a reason why people buy hardware ..so they dont have to deal
with a plugin?


The Plugin does also reflect your changes via the hardware, when you tweak the knobs, the changes are shown to the GUI of the plugin and also to the automation of your sequencer, so it allows you to automate all its Parameters within the VST domain, something a large count of people prefer over MIDI.

Also, the complete state of your Virus is saved in your song, so it is totally integrated in your project, no more extra track and make an arrangement dump and all this fiddeling you need with other synths and additional files to backup.

When you are using the analog outs, you still have sample accurate MIDI timing.

The TI aspect is to bring the users the best of both worlds, making the handling of a hardware sequencer easier for production and allow you to tweak where you sit, no matter which way you prefer.

And there is no need to use the "ASIO Soundcard feature", but I personally find it very useful, when you just have your Polar and your Laptop on the road, it spares a mixer and an additional soundcard.


a librarian?
you have heard of sounddiver?


Sounddiver is a discontinued application from former Emagic, that is not available on the Windows platform. The Mac OS X version is still beta. The complexity of the Virus TI line can not be easily ported to the Sounddiver Virus module, which is provided by Access for the former Virus lines.

There are other products to fill that gap, but afaik the range of supported devices by sounddiver has not been beaten yet.

The librarian functionality of the Virus Control is a bit more sophisticated than sounddiver and does not need to deal with application compatibility problems like shared MIDI ports, installing MIDI Port Faker software etc.


ahh the arp programing...hmm kinda sucks that you *have to use the
computer mumbojumbo to program it.

so the big advantage is midi over a usb cable and a plugin that
you can control with a mouse for whatever reason i dont know because
the hardware is right infront of you.


You are right, you can not edit the user arp pattern from the hardware alone, but would that be fun?

For every other aspect you don't have to use the mouse. You can either work with the hardware or the mouse, the VST Plugin is just a view into the virus.

You also don't need to waste precious MIDI ports on your 4x4 or 8x8 MIDI interface, the TI comes with its own, actually it brings you two, even if you never use the Virus Control, when you are using the USB connection.


this TI aspect is what makes the deal sour.The virus synth engin is art.
but one has to think how much of the premium price am i paying for
a catch phrase "total intergration"


The Virus TI price has not been increased compared to the other Virus product lines. The "feature count" has.

If you are not satisfied with the "Total Integration" aspect we welcome all of your suggestions.

tk

[Origami]

tk, can you solve this doubt I have?

you open an instance of Virus Control in your sequencer, right? and you use a sound, you modify it but don't store it into the Virus (like for example using a preset and modify it but not saving that edited sound as a preset.) Then you close your sequencer. When you open your sequencer again, that edited but not stored sound is still there? I mean, that's the way I work with vst synths, I don't necessarily store the sound I'm working with as a preset and when I open the song again the sound is still there.

does it work like that with the TI?

[grs]

we welcome all of your suggestions
Well I guess you heard the one about more channels and higher sample rates and bit depths. :D

I'll be happy using the analog outs that's for sure, I'm still abusing my virus b.. :wink:

[nutekk]

For other rates, like using a 96kHz project, the Virus Control does provide you with an appropriate audio stream.

The Virus will not prevent you using your prefered project environment. Just try it.
tk


holy hell!
this was the question i asked in the beginning of all this crap.
:D :) :D :) :D :) :) :lol: :D :) :) :) :) :) :lol: :D :) :lol: 8)

this negates all i have said in negative comments!
my order is going to go through.
much of this could have been avoided...
why so long to answer?
well it doesnt even matter.
this was my only gripe and it turns out to be none at all!

well its been fun :wink:
thank you

nutekk (another happy access virus ti user)!

[tk]

holy hell!
this was the question i asked in the beginning of all this crap.
:D :) :D :) :D :) :) :lol: :D :) :) :) :) :) :lol: :D :) :lol: 8)

this negates all i have said in negative comments!
my order is going to go through.
much of this could have been avoided...
why so long to answer?
well it doesnt even matter.
this was my only gripe and it turns out to be none at all!

well its been fun :wink:
thank you

nutekk (another happy access virus ti user)!

We do not regulary read all these forums, now it is weekend and I do it even I shouldn't.

Usually, just ask our support line, which would have answered your question in less than 24 hours.

Again: this is an "unofficial" forum, neither hosted nor driven by us. We are happy to help here, too, but you have to accept that we are not around here all the time since we have jobs to do.

tk

[Origami]

tk, could you answer please the question I made a couple of posts above? please...

[ben crosland]

Hi Origami,

Yes it should work fine.

[nkf]

The DPSs of the Virus TI work with 24bit. The samplerate of them is 44.1 or 48kHz, this depends on your project/ASIO settings, the Virus adapts to these rates. You can also wordclock the Virus via SPDIF.

The USB audio transfer is 16bit.

For other rates, like using a 96kHz project, the Virus Control does provide you with an appropriate audio stream.

The Virus will not prevent you using your prefered project environment. Just try it.


This is the stuff the TI user want to know and I've not found anything like this info communcated in the manual or online at Access. I have a Polar here for evaluation and the possibility to use it in what kind of project's sampling rate is an absolut crucial information! I feared, until your statement, that I would be stucked with 44.1/48 projects. Personally I have no problems anymore to have a synth sample rate converted into e.g. a 96 Khz project - SRCs are nowadays very good. Is the TI USB driver or the TI internally doing a sampling rate conversion to the projects sampling rate? How does it work? I thought about the possiblity to do an SRC with the digital output of the TI but was stucked with the problem that the playback via the SPDIF is not latency compensated and is completely out of time with higher latency. It's a drawback here because there should be a V-Control option to delay compensate the SPDIF output too. Is this coming? Are there other options for USB streaming in the pipeline, like 24 bit streaming on one USB stereo channel or alike?

[nkf]

Again: this is an "unofficial" forum, neither hosted nor driven by us. We are happy to help here, too, but you have to accept that we are not around here all the time since we have jobs to do.

But you are giving out crucial and important info here which is highly appreciated. There is no official forum availabe AFAIK and therefore it's much more interactive to include other users instead just having a simple two way communication with the support.
The new TI series is huge step forward IMO in usability of external hardware synths within host applications and it should be supported by good and splendid communcation from Access.

[Khazul]

There isnt a an official forum - just a mailing list that works kind of like a forum.

I dont use it because I hate all the spam that mailing lists generate.

[ben crosland]

There isnt a an official forum - just a mailing list that works kind of like a forum.

I dont use it because I hate all the spam that mailing lists generate.

Ampfea manage their mailing lists very well, and the likelihood of your getting spam via the access list is incredibly small. It's more of a problem with some of the more common hosts, e.g. Yahoo.

[Khazul]

Sorry - I didnt mean spam from outside the list - I meant spam as in *lots* of legit email from the list :)

[ben crosland]

Sorry - I didnt mean spam from outside the list - I meant spam as in *lots* of legit email from the list :)

Ah - fair enough ;)

[nutekk]

Is the TI USB driver or the TI internally doing a sampling rate conversion to the projects sampling rate? How does it work?

i was wondering how this is achieved aswell!
im thinking it must be the usb driver?
which is also strange because realtime samplerate conversion
is heavy stuff i thought!

[wildbill]

i don't have too much tech knowledge, but it sounds to me like your DAW must act like a 'master' clock synchronizer, and the TI follows the sample rate set by it.

i could be completely wrong, tho.

[nutekk]

yes but how does it get around the fact that
the usb audio streams are still only capable of 16/44
which is fine.
but when using a project @ say 24/96
what exactly does the sample rate conversion...the VC software?
will this cause any latency.

i have reordered because TK said it will not restrict my project enviorment.

[Timo]

The Virus TI price has not been increased compared to the other Virus product lines. The "feature count" has.

tk

Indigo2 was ?1169.99 (RRP), Polar is ?1499.99

[MADSTATION]

nutekk: Don't worry about that :)
I work in 32 and sometimes 24 bit and I have no problems at all with the TI(at least no problems related to latency. Sometimes I get hanging notes but nothing too serious).

Timo: I got my Polar for 500$ CHEAPER than my Virus KC.
I got it from www.novamusik.com