Anyone else experiencing early audio recording ?

[Xtigma]

it could be a problem with my setup...... u never know but
when im recording audio from the TI it seems to record a good 2000 samples early...

anyone else experiencing this ?

:)

was worth the wait I think :D

[MADSTATION]

Which sequencer/soundcard are you using?

[obliterations]

Ohh yes.... Thats the same problem Im having. I had to set my I/O buffer size in Logic 7 to 64 or 32 and then adjust my midi delay to 4.8 ms. Im not sure why it records early. I was thinking maybe its just dang fast and you dont need a huge I/O buffer? But then I tried recording the Audio out of the virus and then back in through the audio ins and now the virus is recording its self slower than the other external gear.

I've also had problems trying to bounce it as a vst instrument.
I just get this garbled "matrix noise"

http://www.boundinoblivion.com/VirusTi/VirusBounce.aif

That was a base line by the way.

any thoughts?

[Xtigma]

EMU 1820 + Cubase sx 3.1

[MADSTATION]

Wow I'm afraid now since I also have an EMU1820 + SX3.1...

I'll test as soon as I receive mine(should be in a few days).

It might have something to do with different input and output latencies.

[ten]

obliterations, are you bouncing in realtime?

ten

[obliterations]

obliterations, are you bouncing in realtime?

He he he... Well... I wasnt and then about 3 mins ago it hit me.
Thanks, Problem solved. If you dont want an F&#k up sound. Better bounce in real time.

[marc]

Ohh yes.... Thats the same problem Im having. I had to set my I/O buffer size in Logic 7 to 64 or 32 and then adjust my midi delay to 4.8 ms. Im not sure why it records early. I was thinking maybe its just dang fast and you dont need a huge I/O buffer? But then I tried recording the Audio out of the virus and then back in through the audio ins and now the virus is recording its self slower than the other external gear.

I've also had problems trying to bounce it as a vst instrument.
I just get this garbled "matrix noise"

http://www.boundinoblivion.com/VirusTi/VirusBounce.aif

That was a base line by the way.

any thoughts?

it works here. can you send me the song so i can try it myself?

marc

[obliterations]

it works here. can you send me the song so i can try it myself?

marc

It works here to. The problem was taht I wasnt bouncing in real time.
Still having a problem with major key lag when using the USB for midi.

Can I still use the Virus Control and turn off the USB midi?

[ben crosland]

Still having a problem with major key lag when using the USB for midi.

Can I still use the Virus Control and turn off the USB midi?

Lag with the Virus do you mean? Or when controlling other synths?

If the problem is with the Virus, then just set the current part's Main Out to Out1 L+R, then all you have to do is remember to set it back again once you have recorded the part, otherwise it'll playback all wrong because of the delay compensation.

[ten]

I am also experiencing an early record when using analog outs via the vctonrol.

Say you have a sequence playing back to OUT1 L/R and in perfect time because of delay comp, when you come to record it the audio is recorded slightly before the coresponding midi track its taking the note info from. Its like when you come to record the track the delay is not being compensated any more. Here is a pic to show what I mean...

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ten.dj/early.jpg

The top track is the midi file thats being played, the one under it the audio track its being recorded to. As you can see the wave starts a fair bit before the actual midi track making it completely out of sync.

On a side note, a lot of the problems I was having with audio glitches and arp timing SEEMS to have been fixed by turning off 'legacy usb support' in the bios. I will do some more tests over the next week but you might want to tell users experiencing the same things I was to try this as its made mine a whole lot better. This early record thing and notes getting stuck (very frequently) are still happening though.

ten

[MADSTATION]

ten: I know for sure there was an early midi bug in Cubase in versions before 3.1 but it might be related to the midi stamp...

Start---> All Programs ---> Steinberg Cubase SX3 ---> Documentation ---> Midi Port Filter.

Maybe you already checked that out, if it's the case then I'm sorry...just trying to help :)

[ten]

Thanks for the tip. didnt fix it though....this is more to do with audio recording than midi recording. Cheers anyhow!

ten

[ben crosland]

The analog outs always sound early on playback (and hence in record i guess) as they are being delay compensated unnecessarily. Recording via the VC is intended for the usb outs - if you wish not to use these, then Multi Mode might be the way to go?

[ten]

Thats not quite right, not on my setup anyhow. The analog outs sound perfectly in sync on playback through the virus control at any latency in sx3.1 on my system anyway. Thats why its so cool. Normally ext synths are totally out of sync unless you have direct hardware monitoring enabled and then you cant have plugins on the audio chans.

Do you think it would be possible to add someway of turning off delay compensation on the vcontrol so you can record in time using the analog outs? This would be the best of both worlds, using the vcontrol to setup patches etc for analog outs, hearing them in sync while mixing, then switch of f delay comp to record them. A lot nicer than saving the patch to a hardware bank, switching to multimode, loading it, not being to edit it via vcontrol anymore. Might be asking a lot here but it would be so much nicer running and recording all outputs from the vcontrol totally.

ten

[grs]

Ten, there is the 'delay comp' on/off button in Cubase, have you tried that when you record?

[ten]

Yea, makes no diff unfortunately..

ten

[MADSTATION]

ten: Is the offset in the recorded audio events always the same or is it different each time?

[nkf]

Thats not quite right, not on my setup anyhow. The analog outs sound perfectly in sync on playback through the virus control at any latency in sx3.1 on my system anyway. Thats why its so cool. Normally ext synths are totally out of sync unless you have direct hardware monitoring enabled and then you cant have plugins on the audio chans.

Are you routing back the TI into your ASIO sound card? Because if I understand everything correctly I have the problem the other way round. I use Nuendo 3.1 with RME MADI stuff going into a DM2000 and all external synths are connected directly to the mixer, not to the ASIO card. The synths are always in sync MIDI-wise, because Nuendo correctly delays the MIDI output on the four AMT8 interfaces. The only synth which now is out of sync is the TI Polar when using with V-Control and the digital output - it is much to early during playback.

[ten]

Madstation, its always the same.

nkf, yes its connected directly to my rme fireface. As I mentioned, it plays back in perfect sync through the vcontrol using the analog outs, but when you record the same track to audio its early like in the picture I put up.

Ive found a temp solution, Voxengos sample delay plug. Putting that on the audio track and delaying it by 2048 seems to bring the recorded track pretty much dead sync again, although I would love to be able to do this via vcontrol or have a switch to turn delay comp off.

ten

[obliterations]

obliterations wrote:

Still having a problem with major key lag when using the USB for midi.

Can I still use the Virus Control and turn off the USB midi?


..Lag with the Virus do you mean? Or when controlling other synths?

If the problem is with the Virus, then just set the current part's Main Out to Out1 L+R, then all you have to do is remember to set it back again once you have recorded the part, otherwise it'll playback all wrong because of the delay compensation.

Thanks Ben,

The problem was with the Virus. Not with other synths or soft synths.
While using the Ti as a VST instrument with the audio set to usb there is major delay when playing keys or during midi palyback. I tried changing the main outs to "Out L+R" and that fixed the lag problem.

The Virus triggers right on time with the sequence. No lag.

However, that only seems to work while the actual track with the VST instrument is selected. The moment I switch to another midi track the lag kicks in again. I did try changing the main outs back to USB but the lag is still there.

Im using Logic 7 with a Mac G5 Dual 2 ghz.

Anyone else having problems with their Ti lagging during USB/midi palyback?

P.S. Everything works fine just using standard Midi.

[nutekk]

The problem was with the Virus. Not with other synths or soft synths.
While using the Ti as a VST instrument with the audio set to usb there is major delay when playing keys or during midi palyback. I tried changing the main outs to "Out L+R" and that fixed the lag problem.



so your saying that for you using the usb audio function isnt viable?
you have to use the analog outs?

[technomonster]

again this wont probrably help!!!!!!!!!!!, but does CUBASE have software monitoring, and are you software monitoring. because maybe you have adjusted the midi sequence a while back (before VIRUS TI purchase) to fit in with audio tracks in general in compliance with software monitoring.
That means put the midi sequences forward.

remember software monitoring is not real as far as what the real latency is.

this is probrably rubbish so i wont continue, but if think i might be on to simething i will write more about it.

what i wrote could be totally off the mark

[ten]

It is totally off the mark :)

ten

[vls]

same problem here.... 2000 samples too early...

Volker

[melnikov_project]

I think I have a tehnik for bouncin those audios and not getting ennoyd

that shit happens to me as well with some vst's sometimes its the cubase's
midi preferences.but most of the time its the plug it self demending this latency to be more acurate.but shit we dont need to know it all we wont is to export and use..
so what i do i got my sleft a sound card that supports direct wire as a second audio card [main is creamware] it called prodigy 192
ok so what it so is simple it connects all inputs and outputs from any audio source in a pc and it can be recorded live without bouncin and other shit hell as this 1...
it like u solo midi and audio hit record and it will recoord ha nice a..
so after it beenn recorded i just cut thos silence parts od the latency shit..
and move it to the right spot..
for me its the most convinient way to do it as well for many other's
i hope its helped.

[ten]

Yea, slight overkill for what we are trying to do :)

ten

[obliterations]

so your saying that for you using the usb audio function isnt viable?
you have to use the analog outs?

Yes, I am also saying that USB as a midi connection has problems too.

I have no problem switching to USB to stream the audio onto Hard Disk, adjusting the start time of the sample, and then switching back to regular old midi. Only takes a second, and its not as complicated as it might seem.

So in the end the USB is still very useful...

BTW when using the Ti as a sound device I had the same early recording problem ten has. I was able to get the start times close by adjusting the I/O buffer and Recording Delay setting in Logic. After all that I decided it was too much trouble. I went back to just using my Tascam.

[MADSTATION]

Possible early midi recording fix:
If you are using Cubase SX3.1(it might be in earlier versions as well):
- Preferences
- VST
- Adjust the Delay Compensation Treshold(for recording).

[ten]

Yea that works, but you have to change it back when using other external synths other than the TI.....pain in the arse :)

ten

[MADSTATION]

True.
Then if you're using the External Instruments integration in Cubase, try to go in the VST Connections panel then under the External Instruments tab, add the value of the Virus TI latency to the value you already have for your external instruments.

Let me know if that works out.

[ten]

No because the TI is routed through the vcontrol, so external ins doesnt know its there.

ten

[MADSTATION]

I know this :)
I meant update the latency of your OTHER external synths...Just add value of the Virus latency to these numbers...
Everything should be in perfect sync.

[midislut]

Possible early midi recording fix:
If you are using Cubase SX3.1(it might be in earlier versions as well):
- Preferences
- VST
- Adjust the Delay Compensation Treshold(for recording).

also remember to first click on "constrain delay compensation" otherwise that threshold means nothing

also toggle with VST engine expert settings in vst audiobay (if someone has mentioned this sorry...i havent read the whole thread)