Syncing DJ and MIDI gear?

[Khazul]

Any of you guys work with DJs and need to sync up midi gear?

What do you do - get the dj to handle the sync manually at their end as normal (maybe even give them a click track?), or do you use audio BPM->midi clock generators? (Didnt Red Sound used to make one?)

If the latter - anything still on the market that does a half decent job of this?

Thanks

[Onkel Dunkel]

Some DJ-mixers have built in audio BPM counters. I wonder if they have MIDI out for sync with sequensers :roll: I know that my Kaoss Pad has trouble detecting the right BPM if the input signal hasn?t got a very regular beat (works best if the bassdrum kicks in on every beat and nothing more). Maybe this would be an issue too on those mixers. I?ve been wondering about this question myself...

[waketek]

Check out Pioneers new mixer

http://www.pioneerprodjforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Mixers&Number=133148

[jasedee]

Yeah, there are a few mixers out there with MIDI out ports...

I would suggest sending the DJ a click track or use some foldback wedges to send him the sequences, and he matches the beats to that.

[Khazul]

Ive tried using the bpm counters on dj consoles - was never very impressed - whole numbers of bpm counts aint fine enough to tell if you can go hands off on the desks and spend the next mins or so fiddling with controls and fx while you blend two tracks, so just setting a synth to the same tempo never holds for very long.

Ive tried treating the tempo control on synths like a deck's pitch control for manual syncing and it just aint fine enough - needs tiny fractions of bpm really. Tap tempo aint bad - easier at least, but v hard to get accurate.

I guess the Dj will just have to keep sync - theyre used to that anyway :)

Red sound midi sync boxes were discontinued last week and they have none left - Grrrrrr!


Interesting you mention the Kaoss pad - is that a v2? I was thinking of getting one for use here and with a friends DJ rig.

[Gopal]

No DJ mixer's beatcounter is reliable, the midi output is for syncing effects and is not accurate enough to sync music.

You need one of these

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/dj-equipment/redsound-voyager-1/251238/

"The Redsound Voyager is a very powerful 'box of tricks' that connects to 1 or 2 audio sources and monitors the beat of the music from both of them . It then converts this information to MIDI data and transmits it to any other MIDI device . I didn't know too much about how MIDI worked before I bought the Voyager - and like everything I buy I hoped that it'd be one of these things you could plug in and 'it would just work' .

Thankfully I wasn't far wrong ! MIDI defines a standard for communication between any device that supports it - samplers , keyboards , audio software on your PC .. the list is endless . Instead of sending data as audio it sends it via instructions on 'channels' and lets the device at the other end deal with it . The Voyager simply transmits MIDI clock and start commands to other devices . Start commands allow you to kick off another device at a point in time - sort of like giving your band a countdown of 3-2-1 and then all starting together . It's the MIDI clock though thats more interesting as it acts like a universal drumbeat defining the tempo so that all of the devices that are listening will keep in time .

Anyone who knows a bit about DJing knows that this is what beat matching is all about - trying to get 2 records that play at different tempos to play at the same speed so you can mix between them . The Voyager sits between 2 decks ( or any 2 phono / line inputs ) and synchronises any external MIDI device to play back in time with the music . This is a godsend for DJs ! I've got one of these rigged up between 2 decks sending output to a sampler ( Yamaha SU200 ) and t o Rebirth on the PC . This allows you to have a tune playing on one deck and play back drum loops from the sampler together so you can effectively do remixing on the fly . "

Don't think they make em anymore but I picked one up second hand for around $100 USD

[Onkel Dunkel]

Interesting you mention the Kaoss pad - is that a v2?

Yes it?s v2. I like it very much but can?t really give you a full review since i?ve only had it for about 2-3 weeks and i don?t get to play around with my gear very often after becoming a father (time consuming little bastards :wink: )

[MADSTATION]

Have a look at this:
http://www.allen-heath.com/US/news_story.asp?view=228

A&H mixers are pretty much the best in the industry.

[Khazul]

Thanks - Im not a DJ (not these days at least), so dont have enough of a need to spend that much on a DJ mixer :)

It does at least have a midi sync - and knowing them, probably quite good.

Red sound are releasing a new sync + fx contraption in April that will probably do the job, in the meantime, Ive got a MachineDrum arriving on Tuesday as well - for now Ill probably use that by manually syncing as has apparently got the kind of sync control that is reasonably DJ friendly for beat matching - ie set tweak the tempo to match, then nudge it in.


Just thought Mad, you might be able to suggest on something related I have been casually looking for - a pair of CD decks with a really fine pitch control thats good enough for get a good beat match that will carry for decent length cross over without having to mess with the pitch every few seconds to keep sync. Ie something that compares to matching a couple of technics 1210 decks? Everything I have had a play with so far seems very course so near imposible to get a match that will hold for very long.