Live 6 anyone?

[Khazul]

OK - so Im getting more and more pissed off with Cubase for early stages of produtcion work and desparately need to find something more immediate to work with during early stages of production - you know when you have fragile ideas, just trying to capture them and dont wont to be distracted by frigging aorund in a heavy DAW application.

Im very hardware centric - using cubase means a huge change from the way I normally just fiddlle around and jam - layering up synths - running a drum machine etc - ie all in hardware - I dont use the computer at all most of the time until I want to record.

Now dont get me wrong - I do find cubase very good when you know exactly what you are doing, and im just focussed on either playing OR tracking and mixing (ie when Im working with someone), but when Im trying to both be creative and focuss on a DAW - it just plain sux - it demands too much attension. Its also great for mixing and post production - ie when you can be just focussed on that task.

Sonar 6 was tempting me for a while - has some cool new features etc to speed up workflow, but in all seriousness, I see it largely for me as a direct alternative to cubase - so other than a few changes to how I would work at the dedtail level - no real gain.

So been thinking about live - back with live 4 I quite liked the simplicity of it, but its complexity has grown alot and now cant really make my mind up.

The big thing is that I play everything rather than just program, but Im very fragile with ideas musically - very easy to loose them, hence why I like hardware - its simple - you dont have to think much. I have a background as an engineer and DJand of course I grew up with hardware - good in some way, bad in others - when mixing I tend to allmost exclusively go into engineer mode, stop thinking musically and start thinking mix, processing balance etc so here a full DAW works well for me. But then there an old DJ side that likes to just be spontaneous - its this side where Im wondering if live can give me a couple of things - trivial simplicity around tracking and very spontaneous control of on the fly mixing/arranging and recording what Im doing for later tweaking.

I have this thought of doing early creative work in Live 6, then migrating all the tracks over to cubase 4 for full mix down, post production etc.

I allready have cubase, and I use it alot for more conventional tracking and mixing anyway, so no point in getting rid of it - in that task it works really well for me.


So anyone else here who uses hardware mostly and can usefully comment on working with Live 6 - particularly around just being spontaneous and creative or am I about the only dinosoar left who still mostly uses hardware? ;)

One thing I do like about live - I can just slave it to my hardware - whereas cubase has to be in control of all clocks etc - I dont want that, I allmost just want to arm a bunch of tracks, fiddle around with tempo on my drum machine till im happy, and just have some dumb slave recording everything as audio and midi...

I tend to record most stuff as midi then tweak it before bouncing to audio, that aspect of live does concern me - its very audio and plugin centric - but then so is cubase 4 these days, but at least it has quite decent midi editing, even if there is alot about the way it deal with CC vs automation that I dont like...


So sell me on Live 6 - want to know how people actually use it :)

BTW - I dont even use VC much with my TI - so quite a hardware nut :)

cheers all

[Old Vantaa Man]

The problem I find with doing stuff as just midi is that it's non-commital. You always think, oh I'll decide later exactly how it's gonna be.

I always put tracks to audio asap. Weight off. Your sequencer ain't gonna speed things up. Just burn it and get over it, I think anyway.

[bishopkris40]

I'm Hardware and currently in the exact same situation. I'm now falling back in to the trap of not switching my PC on when I'm playing or jamming. I have loads of synths now a drum machine and a drum sampler, with all of these things I can get a good song going but when I start up cubase (Even with my whole set up ready I loose all the groove) This is upsetting in so many ways it gets to the point of being impossible.

What I would love is to have a program that like cubase I can set up a template project that has all my instruments and and channels set up so that when I start I can still be jamming with my hardware but the midi is all recorded, but in addition to this I'd love to be able to trigger midi loops from some sort of controller preferably a keyboard, so that in octave 1 I can have 12 variations of drums, second up to 12 variations of a bass line, I want to record these and not program, I want to be in midi at this point as I only use audio as a last resort, this won't change I moved away from audio loop arranging over 10 years ago becuase I feel it limits my imagination imho.

Is this possible with any sort of software, I was in to the audio loop thing a big way before I got the hardware bug. I remember a program used to trigger audio loops from a midi keyboard so woould it be possible to say on c3 activate lead 1 on midi channel 1 but on d3 play lead 2 on midi channel 1.

I must add that this is mainly to help me arrange as that is where my work flow and songs fall flat. But if I'm jamming I simply play what part I want. I must stress that playing what I want is no problem but simply my work flow is hampered by the cubase way of things, I actually learnt on Emagic logic and like that but again got stuck with arranging my parts.

Can live trigger midi loops?

Not slagging any software of workflows just trying to find the right software for me in a hardware driven bedroom;)

Cheers
Kris

[Doc Jones]

Hey Khazul, I made the switch from cubase to Live for exactly this same reason. Cubase is an excellent program, but Live's unique and intuitive session view really is a key area when talking about creativity.
In the session view, you can easily capture new ideas of the fly and because of the way the way that it is structured, more often than not, you'll find yourself immediately taking those newly captured ideas to new levels and variations - things just flow easily in session view.

[Doc Jones]

Can live trigger midi loops?

absolutely. I use a combination of hardware and software/vstis and create midi loops (and trigger them) quite often.

[jasedee]

Hey Khazul,

Are you sure that you cant slave cubase to external hardware? Im pretty sure you can set it to clock externally...

As for Ableton Live, I've checked it out a couple times and found it to be completely non-intuitive. The GUI is shitty, and it seems that it's main strength is for use in "Live" situations, using loops etc.

It's Cubase for composition for me, Pro Tools for mixdown...

[bishopkris40]

I think the two will compliment each other for me. I've just spent ages watching and reading tutorials, looks like this is what I need to use for my needs, I agree that the GUI looks complicated but since I haven't managed to grasp the whole cubase thing over the years and seem to have wasted money I think I have to give it a try, will start with the demo and see how I get on for a tune I have tried to do for years, if that comes out ok then I'll buy it.

Cheers for this finally I may have a good work flow.
Kris

Happy New Year

[Khazul]

Jas - yeh - Cubase 4 will only sync to MTC/SMPTE - midi beat clock (ie what most synths and drum machines can output) is no good...

I think SX3 used to sync to a beat clock.

[Khazul]

Doc - Do you still use Cubase in your production? for eg mix/post production, or do you do everything in live now?

[Merlot]

I use live 6 as my main sequencer since I switched to a PC. I have been using it off and on since version 3, but since the addition of racks, more powerful metering and multi processor suppport, it has been rock solid through and through. Definitely can use it from start to finish. The routing options are also unlimited.

[Doc Jones]

Doc - Do you still use Cubase in your production? for eg mix/post production, or do you do everything in live now?
I use live for everything now (though I still do some finishing touches in wavelab). When I first started, I would use Live just during the creative process and switch back to cubase for mixing and mastering. I did this mostly because of my familiarity and comfort with cubase (been using it since 3.7 days). But now that I really know Live, I found that there really is no need to switch back.

[Khazul]

OK - just bought Live 6 - been messing with the demo for a while :)

Next bit - controllers for it - particular something really good for its session view.

Im well sorted out for a DAW controller - have something thats equiv to a mackie control, what I am thinking about is what would be ideal for the session view - cueing clips - per channel and master. It kind of seems like something with a whole bunch of buttons on its would be ideal - what do people use for this and particular what make the contorller you use good for the way you work?

I have a behringer BCR2K and BCF2K kicking around from ages back (reason days) - so will try them anyway, but am quite open to selling them and getting something much more suited for the session view - if there is something that would be alot more intuitive and focussed.

ta all

[Merlot]

Khaz,
controller-wise, it sounds like yo are sorted out. The two behringer units and the mackie control emulation should do you fine. If looking for something smaller, you could always check out the faderfox modules. Those are pretty good I hear.

[ledge]

Here's a vid of how it can be used by a guy from my home town who uses it for live shows

http://www.dailymotion.com/cosm/video/xy0m5_tom-cosm-on-live-electronic-music

he goes through how he uses it with midi controls and so on, well worth a look.

[Khazul]

Ta - good vid :)

Will have a look at the second one later. A few hours with the proper version of this this is really making a whole world of difference to the way I do stuff - feels way more spontaneous.

[Merlot]

Cool vid! One thing I could never get my head around was playing live with live. Basically it was whre to assign what on my novation controller. This helps alot too.Thanks!

[Technophile]

The only thing I DON'T like about Live is that fact that you can only record midi automation in arrangement, you have to import it back into session view.
IMO the GUI is better than Cubase, which to me seemed to be endless hidden menus.
Also, the routing options are fantastic, again something Cubase lacks. Does C4 have internal bussing yet?

[Gopal]

No one is considering Acid pro which is what I used to have alot of success with for getting ideas down till I got the hang of logic better.

[Doc Jones]

great video ledge.
Really has piqued my interest in the novation controller.

[Khazul]

Also, the routing options are fantastic, again something Cubase lacks. Does C4 have internal bussing yet?

Nah - thats 4.1 probably.

They do say they will do alot of the asked for stuff in this product cycle - though WTF they did a load of stuff I hadnt seen asked for and left the stuff that people have been screaming for ages I dnt know...

Anyway - they got my two fingers for their troubles...