high frequency clicks on pad sounds

[steamyb]

Hi
Can anyone verify my problem.

I use my TI in standalone mode sequenced by an MPC2500.

However I'm getting pops or crackles through the analog, headphone and digital outs on certain sounds (mainly pads).


Can some one try this for me plz.

1. open patch ROM-R 61 Kismet M
2. hold key C4 for about 20 seconds.
3. listen for high frequency clicks.

I've contacted Access regarding this and they're looking into it.

Altering patch level makes no difference.


Your results would be a help.

Cheers you wonderful peeps. ;)

[Khazul]

Yeh - got a click...

[steamyb]

Thanx for your input Khazul.

Will let you know what Access are doing as soon as I find out.

Nice studio mate and good to see you read my favourite mag.

[Groove66]

Hi Peeps,

I own a Virus Ti Polar (my 2nd unit). What a great sounding / looking synth.

I get some clicks on those same patches as well as these:

> ROM O 127 Zeepad SV (little clicks as you play some notes)
> ROM F 19 Cremoma HS (Hold a chord down a few seconds)
> ROM B 49 Halo MS (again some clicks)

I use my Virus Ti Polar through headphones and main outputs 1&2. No USB connected - Standalone.

Os 2.0.5

Please confirm guys?

Cheers.

[steamyb]

This is what I'm getting also.

I'm sure they probably are happening in other patches but because of the nature of them you physically can't hear the clicks.

I sometimes hear them via the digital inputs into the TI.

I monitor via headphones and analogue outs also!


Access have been informed of this by myself however I still have had no feedback as of yet.

[Groove66]

Hi Steamy B,

Did you hear any pops on ROM B 49 Halo MS? Please check this for me. It does take a while to hear, so please be patient. Play some random notes and you will hear tiny clicks through headphones.

Atleast Access are aware about these clicks, so i'm not so worried. Plus i have found many decent patches that don't click, like some cool pads and leads, etc.

Some ROM banks are solid, whilst some ROM banks have a few patches with clicks (all in Standalone with no USB - i just don't get it :confused:

I have been told that 'some clicks' are expected when changing from a patch to another patch (due to parameter changes), and also some clicks appear when moving any 'knobs' due to digital parameter changes.

But...some say that OS 1.2.3 was click free, which i have not tried yet! If this is true, then it has to be a software problem and not a hardware one.

Stay in touch.

Cheers.

[steamyb]

Yup you're right Groove66

Although this patch is very temporamental.
It took ages to get clicks but they became evident using key velocity.

I've rolled back to 1.23 but I still got the same clicks however I didn't originally notice them till after version 2.0 was released.

I wondered if it had anything to do with the new oscillators however I ruled that out as the roll back to 1.23 didn't remove them.

I also get the clicks on inputs into the TI via S/PDif

I'm still waiting for a reply Access!!!!!!

Will keep you informed Groove ;)

[Groove66]

Thanks Steamy B for confirming this.

It seems that we have a bunch of TI users who are a little too protective about bad rep, those who seem to stand by thier Virus Ti's and claim to hear no pops and clicks, which is complete rubbish imho.

If Access know about it, and they claim to be able to reproduce the same clicks on reported patch names, then it seems that it's across the board on all units from desktop to polar ti.

I have asked a few users on the net, and some of them say they have no clicks, which i seriously doubt. They must be deaf honestly, i would really love to prove them wrong.

Who knows, maybe these few people work for access

[Khazul]

Who knows, maybe these few people work for access

I would doubt that - my experience so far has been that if they can reproduce a problem - they are open about it.

As far other users saying they had no problem - maybe thats true, or maybe they didnt try for long enough - who knows?

Standalone mode for most people isnt actually completely standalone - usb is probably still plugged in, and the TI is probably on external MIDI sync - either could be causing sufficient change in CPU use inside the TI to mean the clicks occur for one user on a given patch and not another.

The mere fact that it takes a variable amount of time to occure should tell you its perfectly possible for one user to experience the problem and not another, and of course can make it harder for Access to reproduce it.


I have been told that 'some clicks' are expected when changing from a patch to another patch (due to parameter changes), and also some clicks appear when moving any 'knobs' due to digital parameter changes.


The 'any' bit of that statement seems a little odd. There are certain paramter changes which are almost guranteed to cause a click - changing distortion types for example - basically anything that can result in changing the overall signal path rather than just change a param of something allready in the signal path. Similar could in theory occure when moving mix/send params to/from zero on delay, reverb, chorus and phaser or switching in osc 3, changing osc type, filter modes etc or changing osc phase param as these all involve a hard signal change. Probbaly never heard on the fx mix params as the 1 value is still nearly inuadiable.

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

I experienced faint poping and clicking noises on most patches when i had the TI. At the time people were suggesting it was a potential clipping issue and that reducing the patch volume would eliminate it. Well in my case this made no difference at all.

I bought my TI a full 2 years after they had been released. I was suprised to find it shiped with OS1.01.......and even more suprised to find the word 'DemoSong' stuck on as a sticker and not silk screen printed onto the chassis. Yes siree.....my TI was one of the oldies......conveniently passed on to me for a premium price, courtesy of Turnkey.

The whole experience kinda reminded me of when the early DX7's rolled off the production line and the Yamaha guys stuck MIDI legends on as stickers before getting round to proper silk screening them on.

The problem with complicated equipment these days it that its getting harder and harder to trouble shoot problems. Who really knows whats causing these pops and clicks? Is it the patch volume being set to high and clipping? Is it your soundcard? Is it your computer being a silly billy? Is it your soundcard.....maybe the drivers are conflicting with you printer? Maybe you have a dirty power supply and your TI hardware is super sensitive to little spikes in the supply? Or maybe there is a little glitch in the TI OS? Maybe a glitch in the DSP code for one of the effects (the delay seems to be a culprit sometimes). Ah, but maybe its not....because ive heard clicks and pops when all the effects have been switched off. Or maybe its a little capicitor or transistor in the output stage which has the wrong tolerance....maybe thats whats causing it. Maybe its the...... ..... ................. .. . ............. ... .. ............. ................. .... .. . .. . .. ...

........and once upon a time you could switch on a synth and instantly get down to the business of making music. All this high technology......is it really worth it? It really does change the creative process. Musicians have to be trouble shooters to get their equipment to work how they want as well as being song writers.....or is it just me?

DS

[steamyb]

Painfully correct sir

But!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What I can say is, this problem with snaps, crackles and pops (sounds like an ad for a cereal), is evident with only the power lead connected and a set of headphones. So why should this be related to USB, midi, drivers, souncards, inputs, outputs and shake it all about puts.

It feels like the TI has been released about 3 or 4 years too early.
In my opinion (and I'm sure you'll have your own) the TI should never have been totally integrated, it should have remained as a hardware synth only. Access could have released a controller keyboard with a software plugin package.

Just my thoughts, no shouting at me please!
I'm tired and on night shift :(



Digital Screams "phylosopher in music tech"

[Groove66]

Steamy B. any news yet?

Cheers

[steamyb]

Hi Groove

No sorry I've still no reply from Access as yet!
Just this minute E-mailed them again.

I wonder if it's going to be a major new OS update, it's been a couple of months since the last one.

previous versions were released frequently like every 4 or 5 weeks so I'm expecting one pretty soon.

[Groove66]

Hi SteamyB

I just heard back from them actually, and still they are not sure whats going on. They can reproduce these clicks, so it's not like we have special Ti's ;)

The thing is, if they dont do anything about it, then go ahead and release something new instead, they should offer some sort of upgrade path, otherwise current users will be seriously pissed...no doubt.

If i dont see any improvments on these clicks in the near future, i am just going to give up and keep the unit for what it is. It looks amazing and sounds great on the majority of patches. I'm loosing so much time and energy over this whole thing, it's just not worth it.

The funny thing is, i was listening to some of my recorded patches that have clicks on them through my Samsung TFT speakers (such tiny spakers) and could not even hear any of these clicks at full volume or lower. They appear on high resolution speakers and most good headphones. I hear them on my Genelecs and Adams as well as my cans, but not on small speakers.

But god knows how many of the rest of the Ti users can actually hear any of these clicks in the first place. Some just don't care (like chap i spoke to yesterday on another fourm - he knows about them but ignore those patches), some live with it (that will be me soon), and others are hoping it's an OS issue (i hope so too).

PS: i have found another Ti user that cannot reproduce clicks on Rom B 49 Halo MS. Maybe he didn't try long enough, not sure. The same goes for ROM F 19 Cremoma HS, i heard no clicks on his mp3 clip through my headphones. He sent me an mp3 clip of the 3 patches and i was suprised to hear no clicks on the first 2 patches. But he did get quite a few clicks on that patch 127 Zeepad in Rom O, which i did hear on this mp3 clip.


Lets see.

[steamyb]

This is the reply I got from Access.


"forwarded this to our R&D department. Unfortunately I have no news yet for you. It seems like this happens randomly as I wasn't able to reproduce the clicks today on a patch I was able to do this before.

Does this happen more or less frequently the longer the unit is on?"

Your response was better than the one I got I seem to be going round in circles with them.

As far as 'living with it', I don't think I can.
I have this as a hobby playing/programming keyboards and I don't have a highly paid job.
To pay £1500 for a piece of equipment that doesn't work properly or as stated pisses the life out of me.

You're right if Access were to release something new, those with 'faulty' machines should be given the choice to upgrade.
As you can imagine though there are still loads of bugs on the TI as well as our probs and I hope that Access are still working hard to resolve them.

Steamy

[Groove66]

Going by the responses both of us have got back from Access so far, as well as the research i have been doing in the last few weeks - i think it's safe to say that 'All Virus Ti's' have some sort of clicks going on.

It probably varies from patch to patch on different units, but i have now found 7 Ti users from all over including you (but excluding myself and my first Ti Polar unit) to reproduce clicks on atleast 1 particular patch (good news).

I do have a very strong feeling that this is fixable via an OS update (or a minor hardware mod at the worst, which i seriously doubt is the case). Surely we cannot all have faulty units.

From speaking to the many Ti's users on the web, all have come back saying that they do get the odd clicks once in a while (either from changing a patch, turning up the mod wheel, turning a filter knob, changing an effect, etc), even if they are not able to reproduce clicks on specific patches that other users get clicks on (if you see my point). In simple form, every Ti user must be getting these clicks in some form or another - bottom line.

'SteamyB' - did you ever get a click on patch 31 called EPZeply in rom N? please check it out. I got clicks on this patch with OS 2.0.3 (over a month ago), but i did reinstalled OS 2.0.3 and this patch played back perfectly. I was shocked. But now i have OS 2.0.5 and this same patch is fine, but as you know some are others not.

Access - please fix this soon.

[steamyb]

Hi Groove

I've not got any clicks on the Rom- N patch although I was expecting it. It is that type of patch I get the clicks.

I didn't hear any clicks on patches today until I played ROM - R Kismet.

Come on Access! I just can't trust any patch at the minute.

[Groove66]

Hi SteamyB

yeah that Rom N patch is fine on my machine too, maybe a currupted OS update caused it.

So your saying that you heard no clicks today? Even on the patches you normally hear them on?

I assume you still get clicks in Rom O 127 Zeepad SV - This one is a bad one.

I wonder if you can by a hardware click / pop eliminator (seriously). I got Waves plugs, but a simple hardware one would be cool.

[Groove66]

SteamyB,

I have another patch for you to check..lol.

Its ROM-I 50 Mandoid HS, i get some tiny tiny clicks after a while of playing. It may be more obvious if you put the release up on the ADSR. Or try it as it is.

Cheers.

PS: i was going through some more ROM banks and it seems like there are quite a few patches with clicks, some with delays causing them.

[F5D]

Sorry to hear that the TI still makes clicks and pops. That's one of the reasons why I still haven't bought one. In fact, none of my hardware synths make any clicks other than envelope clicks. I had a TI for a testrun a year ago when 1.2.3 was out. Otherwise it sounds good as all virus synths but I agree that the whole TI thing has ruined the quality and the synth is full of problems. I'm still waiting for a bugfree new virus synth...

[Khazul]

Have any of you guys posted all this info to access suport?

Im sure they would be glad to hear of the collection of patches on which this can be reproduced.

http://virus-ti.com/?go=contact

[Groove66]

Yep, Access know about the whole lot. They have informed thier R&D.

The worst thing is, i am on my second unit from a completely new batch. I cannot ask for another replacement if Access are not sure what the problem is themselves. And they claim that my unit is not faulty.

I have heard back from more than 8 others claiming to be able to reproduce these clicks including Access. Not to forget the various pop n click posts on the virusti forum

In every ROM bank, i have found atleast 3-5 patches with clicks so far. 'Some' other patches that do not 'seem' to have clicks, end up producing a slight click once in a while or if you change anything like a filter knob, or move the mod wheel up.

I have some fav patches from ROM B, G, H, N, O that have no clicks at all - None so ever.

Khazul, can you reproduce these clicks on the listed patches on this thread.

Like:

ROM 0 127 Zeepad SV - most obvious click build up.
ROM F 19 Cremoma HS play for like 10-20 seconds
ROM-I 50 Mandoid HS - play for 30 seconds random notes

Cheers.

[Khazul]

I have repreoduced it on one of the patches, havint tried on the others. I dont doubt it.

I doubt if there is anything wrong with your hardware. I do know of a whole bunch of thing that can cause clicks in mostly they are reasonable.

If I get the same - my disect some of these patches and see if there anything obvious about them.

Is any particularly quick at showing the problem?

Whats odd is the intermittent nature of the problem.

[Unknown Sound]

This topic was a great read guys. I have had the same problem which caused a lot of grief. After no help from the dealer and Access I almost sent the TI back as a result, but decided not to in the end. Two reasons:

1) I initially thought it was faulty but further research on the Net revealed other owners with the same problem so, a replacement unit could exhibit exactly the same behavior.
2) I wanted the Virus sound and didn't want a refund, hell what else sounds like the TI?...certainly none of my other synths.

Anyway here's my story with examples:

http://virusti.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=2800&hl=

I spent a huge number of hours tweaking every parameter in the affected patches. I finally found a way to minimize (not eradicate) the pops.

From Config:

1) Change Input from Analog to S/PDIF
2) Change Clock to 48Khz
3) Sync to Internal

The TI is now quite usable, with only occasional pops on some patches.

Lets hope a new OS will finally fix the problem.


-US

[steamyb]

Hi all

A big fanx to everyone who have taken the time out to verify this problem.
Just to recap :-

Access are aware of this situation and have recreated the problem themselves.

However.............

ROM-O 127 Zeepad

is also causing problems.
I've tried allsorts of editing to stop it but failed miserably.
But here's a catch I moved down to ROM O 120 Vangelis played for a few seconds and went back to Zeepad.
Guess what? clicks had gone.

I'm in a kerfuffle

[Groove66]

This topic was a great read guys. I have had the same problem which caused a lot of grief. After no help from the dealer and Access I almost sent the TI back as a result, but decided not to in the end. Two reasons:

1) I initially thought it was faulty but further research on the Net revealed other owners with the same problem so, a replacement unit could exhibit exactly the same behavior.
2) I wanted the Virus sound and didn't want a refund, hell what else sounds like the TI?...certainly none of my other synths.

Anyway here's my story with examples:

http://virusti.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=2800&hl=

I spent a huge number of hours tweaking every parameter in the affected patches. I finally found a way to minimize (not eradicate) the pops.

From Config:

1) Change Input from Analog to S/PDIF
2) Change Clock to 48Khz
3) Sync to Internal

The TI is now quite usable, with only occasional pops on some patches.

Lets hope a new OS will finally fix the problem.


-US


Yes, changing your unit for a new one will definately not improve anything. All Ti's have got these clicks in some way. Infact, i don't think any Ti user has a click free unit - no way. I am ready to be proved wrong though, but that is impossible right now.

I also agree that nothing i already own sounds like a Ti. My analog synths are special to me for what they do best - thick juicy sounds. But the Ti sounds great for those animated textures that analog cannot recreate for me. Its one of my best purchases, just cannot wait for the day these clicks go away.

[Unknown Sound]

Yes, changing your unit for a new one will definately not improve anything. All Ti's have got these clicks in some way. Infact, i don't think any Ti user has a click free unit - no way. I am ready to be proved wrong though, but that is impossible right now.

I also agree that nothing i already own sounds like a Ti. My analog synths are special to me for what they do best - thick juicy sounds. But the Ti sounds great for those animated textures that analog cannot recreate for me. Its one of my best purchases, just cannot wait for the day these clicks go away.

Yep, I'm with ya there. The sound from the TI is very special. Access got it right in theory but execution was fumbled. Lets hope they step up to the plate and release an OS that sorts this problem once and for all. Forget the new features, just give us a glitch free product. Access have a lot to learn from the likes of KORG who release 1.0 products relatively bug free.

-US.

[steamyb]

Hi peeps

I got word back from Acces regarding this.

Apparently my motherboard needs replacing.

However there is no guarantee this will be the same solution to everyones problems.

Let us know how yooz get on.

Cheers Steamy[B]

[Groove66]

Hi SteamyB,

Whats the update? did you get your motherboard replaced.

Apparently on the virusti forum, peeps are saying that it's to do with the LED settings (causing clicks)???

let us know,

cheers.

[steamyb]

Groove66

My TI KB is still awaiting repair it is expected to be completed after the 10th Sept.

The only engineer at Sound Control who can do this is on his holidays.

I tried the LED 'fix' settings and it only marginally improved clicks but they were still pretty evident.

Will keep you posted.

Steamy[B]

[Groove66]

Groove66

My TI KB is still awaiting repair it is expected to be completed after the 10th Sept.

The only engineer at Sound Control who can do this is on his holidays.

I tried the LED 'fix' settings and it only marginally improved clicks but they were still pretty evident.

Will keep you posted.

Steamy[b]


Cool, keep me posted please.

I'm suprised that your unit is being repaired by sound control and not Access in Germany...just make sure they do it properly, it really is something Access should be doing though.

[steamyb]

Holy F$%&k S&^t

Just had my TI KB away for repair to :-

Sound Control in Dunfermline.

Whatever you do if yours needs a fix DO NOT send it there.

Mine come back with the mains plug all smashed, dents in the wood panels,screws and washers falling out and loose parts inside.

I'm going to sue the pants off them.

Shoulda listened to Groove66

[Groove66]

Wow - wtf???

i am really sorry to hear that, what a bunch of f**kers.

I would seriously take action against them in all form. Make sure they give you a brand new unit in replacement - no matter what it takes. I cannot even imagine to think why it would be returned in such condition.

I am leaving my unit the way it is, but if i notice any big issues down the line within my warranty - i will shall demand a new replacement after this example.

Go get em! Best of luck.

ps: please report back.

[bishopkris40]

What do you expect from the twats you see in the shop, When I bought mine from Edinburgh it already had dents and scratches, the bloke could hardly lift it to get it in the box, nothing but young nerds who usually prefer guitars to synths, plus they're from FIFE (lol). I'm really starting to think it may be an I dea to contact access and begin a repair centre myself. But I'm not braving opening up my synth until I have finished my warranty

[steamyb]

When I bought mine from Edinburgh it already had dents and scratches, the bloke could hardly lift it to get it in the box, nothing but young nerds who usually prefer guitars to synths, plus they're from FIFE (lol).


I take it you're a Lothian? LOL

[Groove66]

Since updating to OS 2.5.1 my Ti Polar has no more clicks and pops with various patches.

The SE (sound engine) has been refined with this new OS.

Finally i am very happy with my Ti - and it sounds awesome without those horrible clicks.

Off i go to Virus land.