Hardware samplers...

[IamEvil]

I need a sampler... I could buy Kontakt, but for around the same price I can get a used hardware box (which I prefare to use).

My previous experience of sampling is with the yamaha A3000 and thats basically it.

I want the sampler to do mainly drums and also to sample synth sounds for that "hard trance" type sound. - this will probably change as I run around like a madman with a microphone

My choices are:-

* Get an Akai S5000/6000 for about £300-400 + another £300 to fully load it with USB+effects . I love the large screen and removable controls on the S6000

* Get a Yamaha A5000 for about £200, Total Bargain for what it does , even worth the money just to use it as an effects processor.

* Get an Emu E4 ultra for about £400. Not had any experience with them.

So Im leaning towards either the Akai or the Yamaha, my pocket says the Yam but my "that will look cool in my rack" side says the akai.

Does anyone here fancy throwing some input in to help me with this rather hard choice ? :)

[AlexHall74]

Every piece of Yamaha gear I've owned has sounded great, been of quality construction, and priced fairly. But the Akai's workflow might be easier with the big screen. Is there a software editor for either model? Which one can you load up and configure the way you want easiest?

I've always wanted a hardware sampler. Maybe next year.

:)

[IamEvil]

yeah , i think you can get an editor for the akai via its usb.

ive just been speaking to a guy with an akai S6000 which he wants £200 for.

I think Ill be going that route. Hopefully he wont rip me off when I send him the money :)

[AlexHall74]

Whoa! Be careful. Is it eBAY you are looking at the Akai on? If so, common sense will keep you safe:

(1) No Payments via Western Union outside of the auction,
(2) No payments with anything other than Paypal as they give you $1,000 buyers protection, your credit card should also,
(3) Only deal with sellers that have a decent amount of transactions (20 or so) over the course of a year or more with as close to 100% feedback as possible.
(4) Look at their profile to see if they have sold any music gear before if you can.
(5) Also, ask them a question or two about the piece of kit to test their knowledge of it and read the reply to see if they are at least knowledgeable about its basic functions.
(6) Ask them to post an additional picture, something a little obscure, like the item with a small stuffed animal on top of it, as doing so is a good way to prove that they have the item in their possession and that they are not just grabbing JPEGs of gear off Google and listing them for sale on eBAY in an attempt to scam gear whores like us.

This info is important, it would have saved me from getting scammed a year or so ago. I bid on a Mackie Onyx Satellite before Christmas in 2007. The seller actually had decent stats, 30 or so transactions, 99.xx% positive feedback, looked normal. I didn't ask any questions of the guy, I just kind of bid on good faith, bad move. It turns out that the guy's eBAY account AND PayPal account had been hijacked by some dude in China. Since the guy's username and password were the same on both sites the hijacker changed the payment details to be accessible to him in China, then listed a bunch of gear on eBAY, with stock pictures and a few others that he Googled (I researched this after the incident). The Satellite did not arrive after a month, I emailed the seller, no response for a week. The seller's name on eBAY was "AndyKee." When I tried to access the same user's info on my PayPal profile it was a very Asian name, like "Xiao Ying" or something like that. PayPal recoverd $260 0f the $285 I paid, but it took almost a month. I've bought alot of gear on eBAY, and luckily only been scammed once and not too badly, but this incident was a wake up call.

Good luck.

-Alex

[IamEvil]

no its not ebay , its from some obscure local "stuff for sale" type website/forum I found online.

Ive spoken to the guy via phone and email and he wanted me to collect in person (which I cannot do due to work/distance)

I have his full name, his full address and his work phone number and address. I guess I have to trust this guy and my gut feeling is that he is legit.

wish me luck :)

also sorry about your misfortune with ebay , I dont use ebay apart from the odd cables n bits for this very reason. I prefer to deal with people who dont hide behind log in names who share full contact details.

One last thing, After this purchase, my little home studio will probably be nearing completion (not bad for 4 months of not boozing, living the life of a recluse and selling everything else I own) so it will be just the final polishing steps left. Im thinking of an Aphex 204 exciter.. are they worth having or do they do more harm than good. Ive read a few reviews online and it sounds just the ticket , is it hype ?

[AlexHall74]

That's a good point you make about eBAY having questionable validity overall as all users can hide behind aliases of one variety or another. There's no substitute for first hand exposure to the product and to the current owner I guess.

As far as the Aphex Aural exciter, I've heard very little good about it, see here:

http://studio-central.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=60294&highlight=aphex+aural+exciter

Tweak's site is an amazing resource. I learned all I needed to for my first year of recording by reading through Tweak's Guide (http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm) and by reading the forums.

As far as good vocals, there's a few things for certain you will need:

(1) Good microphone
(2) Good microphone preamplifier
(3) Good nearfield monitors to check the tracks
(4) A room with good acoustics
(5) A singer who actually knows how to sing!

;)

My quest for an ideal DAW configuration has been interesting, I'm almost done actually considering my budget and overall lack of time to utilize it all. The best adice I've come across is "Buy good quality gear, and buy it once."

-Alex

[XLR8A]

The Akai S5000/S6000 series are a bit problematic in terms of stability, they tend to freeze quite oftenly without even giving you the ability to save your program. If you want a computerish unstable sampler with many cool features - get Kontakt, i think it's the best software sampler available today.

However, if you still want to go the hardware route, get yourself an Akai S3200XL (but XL not the regular S3200) or EMU E4K if you'll find one. EMU E6400Ultra is also a good choice, but you can forget about the RFX card because it's way too buggy.

When buying an EMU, pay attention to the data wheel to make sure it doesn't skips data. When buying an Akai, pay attention to the screen backlight to make sure it doesn't fades out. Those are the most common problems with those samplers.

[AlexHall74]

Nice info, XLR8A, thanks for that.

-Alex

[IamEvil]

The Akai S5000/S6000 series are a bit problematic in terms of stability, they tend to freeze quite oftenly without even giving you the ability to save your program. If you want a computerish unstable sampler with many cool features - get Kontakt, i think it's the best software sampler available today.

An S6000/Zip/Hard drive/lots of cards should be arriving by post tomorrow. Ive tried the software route with synths/samplers and it just doesnt connect with me. I find it tedious instead of fun to program sounds. Also my pc runs out of steam rather quickly after a few softsynths/effects so prefer to use the hardware bits, though Ill probably get the Kore2/Komplete 5 set when Ive updated the pc towards the end of the year.

However, if you still want to go the hardware route, get yourself an Akai S3200XL (but XL not the regular S3200) or EMU E4K if you'll find one. EMU E6400Ultra is also a good choice, but you can forget about the RFX card because it's way too buggy.


What are the older Akais like ? I know you can get the S1100/S950s etc for beer money on ebay and Ive been quite tempted to get one just to try out.

cheers

[XLR8A]

Well, the older generation Akais have much slower DSPs (something that pisses off any experienced Akai user) and another problem is that they aren't communicating well with the newer computers over SCSI. That means, if you want to hook it up with a computer to transfer samples back and forth - you'll have to find an old P3 with Win98, or a better option would be an old Mac G4 with OS9. That's it, you stuck in a stone age here. Another option is sample transfer over MIDI but it takes ages and kills your workflow, and the last option is to insert and eject and insert and eject and insert and eject Zip drives and being prepared for losing all your data quite often... Btw, older Akais have only one 12db Low-Pass filter and that's it, except S3200 and S1100 with the second filter board that adds a nice HPF BPF and Notch filters. For some people it's not a problem at all though, depends on the type of music you make.

[tricky]

Hi guys another good tip for buying on ebay is to email the seller and ask if it will be ok to pick up the item yourself and pay cash if you win the item, even if it is 500 miles away, if the seller agees then its more than likely legit if the seller dont agree then be cautious there's a good chance the seller might not even have the item (scumbag). Then after you win the item email the seller again and tell them you are unable to pick up item for what ever reason you choose including an apology then pay for the item as normal paypal etc. good luck and happy bidding

[Hollowcell]

I am on the lookout for an old 6000 as well actually - not easy to come accross a good one.

I have a 3000 and a topped out ESI4000, and I tend to lean towards the Emu for anything that requires 'meat', and then I use the Akai for anything that needs 'punch'. The Akais seem to work so well with snares and high end. I never seem to use my Akai for anything other than beats too. The Emu works as a jack of all trades though.

So how did you get on with the 6000? Did it come?

[LivePsy]

I will get kicked off this thread for being a traitor, but here goes.

I have copied some favourite kits from MPC2500 to drum rack instruments in Ableton Live. And smugly thinking that hardware rules. But after getting the eq and compression to match the MPC, the sound from Live is so close that it is only slightly detectable with headphone A/B comparisons. So close, that Live would easily pass for the MPC soundwise.

Sure, I have loved the S-550, ASR-10 and A3000 in their day. But a lot of that magic sound can be created in new gear. I'm only saying because I am surprised it can be done.

Cheers,
B

[IamEvil]

I am on the lookout for an old 6000 as well actually - not easy to come accross a good one.


So how did you get on with the 6000? Did it come?

Yeah it arrived , there was a bit of a mess up with the delivery address but that got sorted eventually.

The sampler is great but not as powerful as I expected regarding its filters (crap), effects (so so), internal sound routings (very basic) - A yamaha a5000 eats it for breakfast with everything apart from sample ram and ease of use. it is immaculate though apart from the screen was losing a bit of brightness-so I just bought a new lcd screen for £160. I could have lived with the old screen but thought i had better replace it just incase it dies when stocks arent available anymore.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4679/dsc00030fx9.jpg

[Hollowcell]

Glad to hear that it made it ok - looks pretty damn cool in that rack as well! Yeah I never found the filters on the Akais to be much of a strong point either - they tend to be more functional than pleasing.

@ LivePsy, I have tried a few softies for samplng as well, but I always head back to the hardware. I think as I have a set of outputs routed to the Emu at all time, it's just natural to bounce things to it - and something happens when you record into the analogue ins (probably quality loss :)) that I like. Then there's the filters etc. Hey what version of Live are you using?

[XLR8A]

Nice one, it looks sick in this rack!:)

Personally i find Akai standard filters like LPF and HPF are much better sounding than EMU equivalents, especially with resonance cranked up to higher values, but EMU is still stronger than Akai with his unique sounding Z-Plane algorithms like Peak-Shelf and other non-standard Morph type filters.

[LivePsy]

@ LivePsy, I have tried a few softies for samplng as well, but I always head back to the hardware. I think as I have a set of outputs routed to the Emu at all time, it's just natural to bounce things to it - and something happens when you record into the analogue ins (probably quality loss :)) that I like. Then there's the filters etc. Hey what version of Live are you using?

Hi Hollowcell,

I know its hypocritical of me to talk up software when I have virus :) but its surprising how close the sound is if you take the time to match Live's drum racks with a hardware sampler. New to live 7, the drum racks give you complete control over drum samples including putting the effects inside the rack. A portable instrument you can move from project to project. No need for a third party plugin. Plusses - its enormously powerful and can copy 99% of the character of hardware. You can stick in synth generators instead of samples. Minusses - a ton of parameters to control all by mouse and the way it hides and shows sections is a tad confusing.

The MPC was programmed in around 30 minutes. The copy in drum racks is almost complete after 2 days :) Oh, I guess that is another minus...

If you sequence in software, perhaps sampling can be software as well. I don't think a TI can be done in software, of course!

Cheers,
B

[ehasting]

I would have voted for the emu e6400 classic/ultra any day when it comes to filtering. It has a diffrent flavor then the akai, and the akai is probably a very good instrument for playback of original source. I find the emu coloring the sound a bit more.. and the filters does more with the sound. But that is what i love with the emu. The emu acts more like a synth with its extensive routing matrix. but it also miss out easy features like ping-pong loop (it can be achived with copy and past, so no big loss). and there is no sample choping features to map up drum samples quickly (like recycle).. i realy hate that :(

But the emu is a sampler synth which realy can alter the sound into another world! :)

http://www.higen.org/wp-content/uploads/vandetta_-_bitter_taste.mp3 <-- drums and bass from emu.
http://www.higen.org/wp-content/uploads/higen-my_shark_always_win.mp3 <-- same again.. drums and bass from emu.