Virus TI2 pricing....

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Digital village have them listed for £2324.00

Thats £700 more than the original TI.

Access used to bring new products to the market for roughly £50-100 more than the previous model. So whats the extra £700 all about.....

I'd like to buy the TI2.....but the price increase is too much for me (I think)

Comments?

DS

[marc]

Digital village have them listed for £2324.00

Thats £700 more than the original TI.

Access used to bring new products to the market for roughly £50-100 more than the previous model. So whats the extra £700 all about.....

I'd like to buy the TI2.....but the price increase is too much for me (I think)

Comments?

DS

which extra GBP700? we didn't increase the price.

marc

[Monobeat]

I am guessing it's because of a huge secret ram chip on-board that Access is going to tell us about in 6 months...

It's the Access way. They release and then stretch out the goodness by unveiling the potential along the way. This new TI MKII is SURE to have tons of features that the original TI does not have. I cannot concieve of why they would go through all the trouble of this release without holding back some super secrets goodies under the hood.

I'd pay the extra for user sample memory on-board/ or some other ingenious "not yet told about" feature...

Or maybe I'm wrong... but I suspect otherwise.

[Timo]

which extra GBP700? we didn't increase the price.

marc

http://www.dv247.com/search/0/0/ProductQuantity/Descending/Virus/1/

Access Virus TI2 Desktop Synthesizer £1,774.28
Access Virus TI2 Keyboard Synthesizer £2,324.63
Access Virus TI2 Polar Synthesizer £2,324.63

= £703.87 difference between TI-kb and Polar and the new TI2 variants. They haven't dropped the prices of their TI mk1 range yet.

DV247 (Digital Village) is the UK distributor for Access Music.

I guess they're price-fixing the pre-order aspect.

If those are anywhere near the real prices, I'm out of the bidding.

[marc]

http://www.dv247.com/search/0/0/ProductQuantity/Descending/Virus/1/

Access Virus TI2 Desktop Synthesizer £1,774.28
Access Virus TI2 Keyboard Synthesizer £2,324.63
Access Virus TI2 Polar Synthesizer £2,324.63

= £703.87 difference between TI-kb and Polar and the new TI2 variants. They haven't dropped the prices of their TI mk1 range yet.

DV247 (Digital Village) is the UK distributor for Access Music.

I guess they're price-fixing the pre-order aspect.

If those are anywhere near the real prices, I'm out of the bidding.

i need to follow this one up once i'm back in the office. let me just add that DV is not our distributor (we distribute directly to various dealers) and we did not increase the price worldwide but adjusted exchange rates (which in effect does result in a _cheaper_ price in the US for instance).

best, marc

[Splat!]

Marc, if there are any secret features on the new TI2, now is the time to tell or secretly PM me :mrgreen: before I blow some extra money off on a Blofeld. :rolleyes:
________
buy iolite vaporizer (http://vaporizers.net/iolite-vaporizer)

[trance gate]

Hi!
This is me second Ti! I had to send first one because of money need but I've missed it sooo much.

Whatever,
I ordered a ti|2 desktop from thomann , 1599 euros.

I hope it doesn't take to much to arrive!

greetings

[kogmachine]

I think the TI mk1 looks better. Bigger logo and wood that covers the entire sides... The mk1 Polar looked good with the wood under the keys... I figured the mk2 would at least have firewire instead of USB.

[Cantankerous]

I don't see a way to rackmount the Ti2 desktop either which is how I have, and need my current Ti to be.

[annikk.exe]

Why would firewire be better? Firewire transmits at 400mbps but USB2.0 can go at 480MBPS..


-Annikk

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

i need to follow this one up once i'm back in the office. let me just add that DV is not our distributor (we distribute directly to various dealers) and we did not increase the price worldwide but adjusted exchange rates (which in effect does result in a _cheaper_ price in the US for instance).

best, marc

Timo - thanks for posting the Digital Village link....I meant to do that but was too busy having a heart attack.

Marc - UK customers would be grateful for your input. I think I need to hear it from the horses mouth (Access) before I part with a serious amount of money. I'd hate to think DV have recklessly hiked the price to 'cash in' on this. They are a very reputable UK music shop/chain.

If the price turns out to be £2324....then so be it. Its an exceptionally good synth....

Thanks

DS

[oblivion]

It would not be fair to reveal secret functions or hardware differences after 6 month or so, because of the mk1buyers think they do a really good deal now and suddenly mk2 has lot of new functions.

I would at least feel fooled and angry.

It is time for Access to tell the difference in hardware (Sample RAM?)now to the future customers.

Lets se what price difference it will be, if none? if it is more expensive, there must be a big difference in hardware=DSP:s are getting more powerful and sheaper.

[marc]

Timo - thanks for posting the Digital Village link....I meant to do that but was too busy having a heart attack.

Marc - UK customers would be grateful for your input. I think I need to hear it from the horses mouth (Access) before I part with a serious amount of money. I'd hate to think DV have recklessly hiked the price to 'cash in' on this. They are a very reputable UK music shop/chain.

If the price turns out to be £2324....then so be it. Its an exceptionally good synth....

Thanks

DS

okay, here's the deal. on our side, the price has never changed - it was never increased. but the pound/euro conversion, plus the fact that DV is trying to get rid of old stock caused this rather irresistible "special offer" (which eventually is sold out anyway). what you guys make of it is totally down to everybody individually and i don't think i want to comment on it further.

best, marc

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Thanks for the help Marc :)

UK customers go here: http://www.thomann.de/gb/access_virus_ti2_keyboard.htm

They are listing the TI2 keyboard at just under £1900. Atleast thats a saving of £400....

Keep an eye on Thomann....most UK shops will price match a European distributor if they hold the unit in stock. As soon as the little bar goes green....im making the call to DV. Boy....will they love me.

DS

[IamEvil]

I bought my Ti 61K brand new for £1,200 in Dec 2007.

The price rose to around £1,600-1,800 within a year.

With the new Ti v2 being sold at £2,324, it is nearly double what I paid.

I don't know who is making the money , it isn't down to UK Pound Vs Euro as nothing else has doubled in price in the last 12 months.

For E.g: This time last year, I was pricing up a Tascam DM4800 mixer + meterbridge + firewire card bundle for £4,600 from Thomann , the price of this is now £5,133 - which is nothing like the inflation ratio described above.

If the DV price is genuine, I think you've just cut me out from being a buyer of your future synths.

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

IamEvil - you live in the UK?

Use European dealers to force down prices...

Sounds like DV are pricing the TI2 high so that the original TI's look more attractive....hence clear the old stock.

At 9.30am tomorrow morning DV are going to find out that they shouldnt have tried to pull the wool over my eyes. If Thoman can do the Euro to GBP conversion at £1900.....then how the hell did DV make it £2324....

DS

[teethofgold]

firewire would be better than USB1... which is the speed the current TI's are operating at. either a full USB2 or a firewire implementation would open up a ton of tracks.

[kogmachine]

From what I've been told Firewire sends data in a constant stream while USB sends data in pulses, making it better for audio work. There's also Firewire 800 @800Mbps.

[Monobeat]

There is no way Access would leak a secret about a future update or potential to unlock. That is part of the magic in my mind. I like surprised and I also like to be amorous of wonderful things that I don't have myself. It leaves a boy something cool to oggle over.

[Totty]

Around 2 grand in the UK is way too much for a Synth like this, I know it's not Access's fault, but my TI Polar was 1500 pounds, there isn't enough new in my opinion to warrant another 4 - 7 hundred quid, recession or no recession!

Guess my TI isn't going anywhere soon...

[kogmachine]

Around 2 grand in the UK is way too much for a Synth like this, I know it's not Access's fault, but my TI Polar was 1500 pounds, there isn't enough new in my opinion to warrant another 4 - 7 hundred quid, recession or no recession!

Guess my TI isn't going anywhere soon...

You have it bad over there too huh? I was lucky to keep my job. Half of my co-workers were laid off. We lost a lot of cool people.

The TI mk2 doesn't seem that much better anyway. 25% more processing power. What does that mean? More voices? I'm sure that with future OS updates that extra processing power will outshine the TI mk1 and it will reach it's plateau. The mk1 is still an awesome machine. I'll think I'll hold out for the TI mk3.

[Totty]

Yes it isn't good. They're saying it's officially a recession today!

Still got a job, just need to make that hit record now!

[synthfiend]

The price here in Australia has increased for the ti2 aswell, and there is no stock of the ti1 anywhere.
I bought my polar in august 2008 for $3900, they want $4700 for a polar now.
I think it's just the case that after a product has been on the market for a while (ala august 2008) that they reduce the price. I really dought access have changed anything more than what marc suggested, ie using lighter metals and redesigning the logic board for 25% more power, plus os3.
I bet the ti1 was the equivalent of $4700 back in 2005 when it was first released.
Like marc says, it's not access that has made the ti2 more expensive, I speculate that it has something to do with the distributors in each country....

[kogmachine]

Yes it isn't good. They're saying it's officially a recession today!

Still got a job, just need to make that hit record now!

Don't we all.

[LivePsy]

Totty, if I can assume you currently have a Polar and it works then why do you want a TI2? Gear lust is a fine thing and I have been as guilty as anyone, but the TI2 line is a hardware overhaul without any feature difference. Probably more about lower production cost, changes on the motherboard because of component supplies, improved reliability from things learnt from the TI1, updated looks...

Say you buy a 2.2GHz dual core laptop and 2 months later it comes out in 2.6GHz and also a higher price. Your 2.2GHz laptop doesn't need to be replaced. Say you bought a TB-303 in '82 then complained that they hadn't implemented FM: 10 years later it was prized more than any synth in that decade's current production.

The TI1 is not obsolete,
B

[Totty]

Totty, if I can assume you currently have a Polar and it works then why do you want a TI2? Gear lust is a fine thing and I have been as guilty as anyone, but the TI2 line is a hardware overhaul without any feature difference. Probably more about lower production cost, changes on the motherboard because of component supplies, improved reliability from things learnt from the TI1, updated looks...

Say you buy a 2.2GHz dual core laptop and 2 months later it comes out in 2.6GHz and also a higher price. Your 2.2GHz laptop doesn't need to be replaced. Say you bought a TB-303 in '82 then complained that they hadn't implemented FM: 10 years later it was prized more than any synth in that decade's current production.

The TI1 is not obsolete,
B

Hi LivePsy,

Of course, I agree, technology depreciated the second you pay for it, and then it only gets worse. Only yesterday did I bring my Roland XV5080 down from the loft and have a blast, it's still great, despite the age and value.

I am extremely grateful to Access for being mature about it and releasing OS3 to everyone, what a great gesture. I cannot think of another company that would do this. I'm just trying to work out what the future is of the TI2 if I did sell my existing Polar. What I'm saying is that I can't see enough benefit. Saying that, I'm sure i'm not Access's primary market. Yes I have GAS at the mo, who wouldn't with a new synth out and all. I would buy a TI2 if I felt that there wouldn't be a major overhaul in a year - but I guess that's the nature of the beast!

On the computer, thats why I sunk loads of cash in my MacPro 8 core. No it won't be the best for much longer, but it's so powerful, I'm hoping it'll last a good 4-5 years.

All the best

Michael

[LivePsy]

I bought a Santa Rosa macbook pro 2 weeks before the refreshed MBP with faster CPU, larger HDD and $100 cheaper came out, so I'm familiar with obsolesence. But the fact remains its very capable and I love it.

I bought a V-Synth at a fairly good price about 2 years before they were discontinued, and hate it but after reading up on a Nord Wave am going to force myself to be creative with the V-Synth. We're always looking for something new but not going to the effort to build a patch from scratch, find out how a particular sound works, and try the same patch on a different synth. Its hours and hours of time wasting, but its learning about sounds and how to get them from the gear we have, not the gear we want.

B

[Totty]

Totally, I'm with you mate.

I am very grateful for what I have, and I know that I am guilty of"chasing the rainbow". The amazing thing is, years ago I had so much less, but my creativity was so much higher. Production was lower, but my ideas were far more focussed with less gear.

But I'm still interested in new gear:p

[HVX]

Stateside, Sweetwater sound has posted their pricing…

Virus TI2 Keyboard (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VirusTI2Key/) = $2,865.97
Virus TI2 Polar (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VirusTI2Polar/) = $2,865.97
Virus TI2 Module (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VirusTI2Desk/) = $2,090.97

That's a little less than their price on the previous TI. I think the Kb/Polar were going for $2,975.97, and the Module was $2,165.97. So that's a $110 and $75 difference, respectively.

[Splat!]

Totally, I'm with you mate.

I am very grateful for what I have, and I know that I am guilty of"chasing the rainbow". The amazing thing is, years ago I had so much less, but my creativity was so much higher. Production was lower, but my ideas were far more focussed with less gear.

But I'm still interested in new gear:p

I totally agree with you. Other than improving sound quality, most of my recent investments have merely killed my ideas and effort. I love my Virus and V-synth GT to bits and pieces, but creativity seems to be fading away :-(
But, maybe thats just me...
________
teen videos (http://teenvid.org)

[sysex]

It would not be fair to reveal secret functions or hardware differences after 6 month or so, because of the mk1buyers think they do a really good deal now and suddenly mk2 has lot of new functions.

I would at least feel fooled and angry.

It is time for Access to tell the difference in hardware (Sample RAM?)now to the future customers.

Lets se what price difference it will be, if none? if it is more expensive, there must be a big difference in hardware=DSP:s are getting more powerful and sheaper.


slightly OT for a moment, but ^ ^, tell that to Waldorf and their 150$ Blofeld Desktop upgrade for 60mb sample ram. which has been sitting inside my blofeld desktop for over 6 months now waiting for the 150$ challenge/response to unlock it. /sigh

[Monobeat]

I used to be a Reason prodigy, I could make that beast so anything and people loved my music to pieces. New songs made every week for years.... then I switched to hardware. Only now after 4 years of getting in the groove with hardware, have I started to find my new flow. It's tough... but highly rewarding in the end... after so much struggle with, "What the hell happened to me?"

[LivePsy]

Mono, how do you cope in hardware not being able to pull out your 29th compressor like you can in Reason? :) More seriously, how do you get hardware to sound so 'pro' without the sidechaining and eqing you can do in software? I'm leaning towards hardware, but its tough to ignore so much control in software.

B

[Ceri JC]

Mono, how do you cope in hardware not being able to pull out your 29th compressor like you can in Reason? :) More seriously, how do you get hardware to sound so 'pro' without the sidechaining and eqing you can do in software? I'm leaning towards hardware, but its tough to ignore so much control in software.

B

This is the main thing I miss when working with hardware. Not the being able to save a whole track (including all patches/settings) as a self contained file, or work on dozens of different tracks at the same time, or even the portability, all of which seem to be common things pros cite as the reason for moving from hardware to software. Unless you're super rich, even if if you have a fairly well equipped studio, you probably don't have several of the same bit of equipment. I like the SH-101, but if I want two different sounds out of it, I can't just open another instance, I need to get one just right, record all the takes of all the different notes on it, record and save that, then change to the other part. If I then want to go back and tweak the first sound, or change the melody on it a bit, I can't. Don't even get me started on recording chords this way. ;)

Same goes for FX units. Say I want to use an RE-201 for a bit of reverb on a snare, some tiny delay on a hh and a big long booming echo on a chord. This means recording all 3 parts seperately and takes about half an hour before I'm happy with it. And as described, I can't then go back and tweak any of the previous parts, if I don't like them, or they don't fit with the new bits, I have to redo them from scratch. Doing the same thing in software takes me under a minute and I can keep altering it after I've done it indefinately.

This means it's vastly slower to work with hardware, the way I make music. At the moment, I am trying to overcome this to some degree by "sketching" tracks in software, then recreating them on hardware for better sound quality and more of an ability to play/improvise around the tracks. I am also going to look at a new mixers with lots of fx send/returns and a switched patch panel to at least increase the speed of this sort of routing (even if it'll never be as fast as software).

One great advantage I've found though is that I finish tracks a lot quicker; when you're forced to either abandon the track or press on with it as it is, with something less than perfect, you often opt for the later. In software, you can just keep on going back and tweaking it indefinately and get a bit caught up in perfectionism that doesn't really matter/come across when you listen to the track a week later.

I was talking to a mate about this a few weeks back and he pointed out that to a certain extent, we'd been spoilt. I started with software (albeit in the early days, when it was quite crude) so always took its strong points for granted. The people who started with hardware and were used to working with old "one patch at a time" synths must have really been blown away once software got good.

[tricky]

Well the only difference between the TI MK 1 and TI MK 2 as far as i can tell is 25% more calculating power a facial makeover and a nice big price tag. I for sure wont be trading my MK 1 for a MK 2. Perhaps Access could give me back 25% more calculating power thus enabling me more polphony by losing things like the atomiser which IMO is an awfull sounding 1 trick pony , also the ability to use the TI as a sound card is a total waste of time IMO how many people realy use this i know of none, and what about the vocoder lol. You see when i buy a synth all i want to buy is a synth, but in terms of synth sounds this is where the virus ti excells it simply sounds fantastic. I think it would be great if access could give us the ability to load only the components we need to use into the TI. I would also like to see a VST only version of this synth that way we could lose the hardware which lets face it is an oversized dongle, there are plenty of surface controllers out there that do a great job these days.

[Ceri JC]

Well the only difference between the TI MK 1 and TI MK 2 as far as i can tell is 25% more calculating power a facial makeover and a nice big price tag. I for sure wont be trading my MK 1 for a MK 2. Perhaps Access could give me back 25% more calculating power thus enabling me more polphony by losing things like the atomiser which IMO is an awfull sounding 1 trick pony , also the ability to use the TI as a sound card is a total waste of time IMO how many people realy use this i know of none, and what about the vocoder lol. You see when i buy a synth all i want to buy is a synth, but in terms of synth sounds this is where the virus ti excells it simply sounds fantastic. I think it would be great if access could give us the ability to load only the components we need to use into the TI. I would also like to see a VST only version of this synth that way we could lose the hardware which lets face it is an oversized dongle, there are plenty of surface controllers out there that do a great job these days.

Although I could live without the vocoder and atmoiser, if you couldn't use the TI as a soundcard, I personally wouldn't have gotten one.

I also like the hardware, specifically the negligible cpu-drain of complex synth patches and again wouldn't have bought it without it. I run an EEEPC as a sequencer (and it's more than adequate for this) for the Virus. If I was running comparable softsynths on it, it'd die. That said, I'd like a licence for a VST-only one to be included with every hardware one, so I could run it on my laptop away from my TI (for making patches etc.). Then when back in the studio, I could use the TI to alleviate CPU load.

EDIT: Oh and I don't know for sure, but I imagine that the way the TI works, when Atomiser isn't being used, it's not appreciably eating DSP clock cycles (same way distortion doesn't when it's turned off).

[teethofgold]

Oh and I don't know for sure, but I imagine that the way the TI works, when Atomiser isn't being used, it's not appreciably eating DSP clock cycles (same way distortion doesn't when it's turned off).

that is correct... only the functions you use create dsp load. there is a whole section of the manual which explains how to squeeze the most polyphony out of the device.

[Timo]

Well the only difference between the TI MK 1 and TI MK 2 as far as i can tell is 25% more calculating power a facial makeover and a nice big price tag. I for sure wont be trading my MK 1 for a MK 2.

Yes, at the moment it is very puzzling. There was a huge difference between the Virus C and TI, even at the start of the TI's life (before it was updated further OS upgrades), but there is negligable difference between TI and TI2, and for a £700 difference in price it's pure daylight robbery.

I think it would be great if access could give us the ability to load only the components we need to use into the TI.

That would be a nice feature, but it wouldn't affect polyphony, only ROM storage that could be better used for other features if/when called upon.

I would also like to see a VST only version of this synth that way we could lose the hardware which lets face it is an oversized dongle

I would peronally hate to see a VST version. The reason I like the synth is because it is hardware for tweaking away from the computer, and also that it's not on every warez user's harddrive.

[kuniklo]

I suspect the main motivation behind the TI2 was that it was getter harder to source some of the original parts. It's not meant to be a big step forward, it's just a hardware refresh.

[kuniklo]

At the moment, I am trying to overcome this to some degree by "sketching" tracks in software, then recreating them on hardware.

I work the other way. I sketch out a full track in hardware, then track it into software for detailed mixing, compression etc. This way I spend most of my time away from the computer but still use it for the things it does uniquely well.


One great advantage I've found though is that I finish tracks a lot quicker; when you're forced to either abandon the track or press on with it as it is, with something less than perfect, you often opt for the later.
This is definitely something I like about working with hardware, actually. It forces you to focus on the things that matter the most and doesn't allow you to reconsider every little detail 100 times.

[Monobeat]

Back to the soft vs. hard thing. The composition phase of making music was the hard thing to switch up. I commit more easily to synthesized sounds, and keep midi and patch info on hand in the case of needing to retweak anything. That way, through using good converters, and committing to getting my audio on the sequencer, I can take advantage of both worlds, in a "quazi compromise" that seems to work well for my brain and studio flow.

[Timo]

I suspect the main motivation behind the TI2 was that it was getter harder to source some of the original parts. It's not meant to be a big step forward, it's just a hardware refresh.

It was five years since the TI was released, the longest in Access history of producing follow ups. You'd expect a marked step up.

I guess it's because the DSP chips are so modular, the lines are blurred. Would've liked to have seen some expression controllers on the TI|2, though.

[microCharles]

Why would firewire be better? Firewire transmits at 400mbps but USB2.0 can go at 480MBPS..

My almost complete electrical engineering diploma tells me that Firewire has a dedicated DSP chip for transfert, while USB require the main host CPU intervention more often. This result in Firewire being around ~20% faster compared to USB, mostly for large transfers (Hard drives, Sound interfaces).

The 400/480Mbps (mega BITS per second, not BYTES) rate are the theorical electrical max speeds the specification would handle.

Imho, Firewire is far greater than USB 2.0 for many reason, architecture, speed, convinience and more. The only thing is that since Apple made Firewire, Microsoft obviously used its ugly marketing machine to promote USB instead, because they like cheaper, less reliable solutions (just like Windows!)

I love snow.

[LivePsy]

Was it 5 years since the TI was annouced, or delivered? Either way, it is a long time and I'm inclined to think that the Virus has gone about as far as it can go. What was the successor to the V-Synth? 2 of 'em in a GT and nothing startlingly different. The only thing that could be a next step for Access might be a G2 Nord modular type idea, has which merit but it has already been done. Production and development at Nord for the NM has apparently stopped with a lot of discouraged posters.

Some of the constraints on expanding the Virus is that the knob interface already cannot keep up with the parameters. So we're constantly jumping between a single knob twiddle and digging into the menus. A next step for Access should dispense with so much knobbage and perhaps free the architecture to be virtually patched, including audio frequency modulation routings.

Cheers,
B

[kuniklo]

It was five years since the TI was released, the longest in Access history of producing follow ups. You'd expect a marked step up.
It puzzles me a bit that they didn't upgrade the USB interface, but since I intend to use mine over midi only I don't care much.

At least Access have made quite a few significant improvements to the firmware in the last five years. The granular stuff alone was a huge upgrade.

Now if they'd just add a comb filter...

[kuniklo]

Back to the soft vs. hard thing. The composition phase of making music was the hard thing to switch up. I commit more easily to synthesized sounds, and keep midi and patch info on hand in the case of needing to retweak anything.
I think this is a smart way to work. You can push forward without worrying too much about patch storage and recall etc but if you really *need* that sound back you can probably call it back up.

[Joey]

Was it 5 years since the TI was annouced, or delivered? Either way, it is a long time and I'm inclined to think that the Virus has gone about as far as it can go. What was the successor to the V-Synth? 2 of 'em in a GT and nothing startlingly different. The only thing that could be a next step for Access might be a G2 Nord modular type idea, has which merit but it has already been done. Production and development at Nord for the NM has apparently stopped with a lot of discouraged posters.

Some of the constraints on expanding the Virus is that the knob interface already cannot keep up with the parameters. So we're constantly jumping between a single knob twiddle and digging into the menus. A next step for Access should dispense with so much knobbage and perhaps free the architecture to be virtually patched, including audio frequency modulation routings.

Cheers,
B


There is A LOT that can be added to the virus...

more deep FM implementation

comb filters

more envelopes

more filter emulations

etc...

there is a lot of unexplored territory for the virus

[LivePsy]

Yes, those could be added but I don't think that does much for the branding of the Virus. The Virus is very successful, which is becoming uncommon in the hardware synth world. How many of the extra TI features not already in the Virus C are being used heavily? Not much I suspect. A flood of small extra features confuses the identity of the product and makes the interface more complex while Access already have a magic formula.

B

[Timo]

How many of the extra TI features not already in the Virus C are being used heavily? Not much I suspect.

I don't know Psy, all the new oscillators from the TI mk1 are sure getting a workout.

And there's Atomizer that is being caned although, personally, I tend to think of the atomizer as being something separate to the Virus. Almost a foreign entity.

Unlike Atomizer, I think all the things Joey mentioned would be a natural extension to the Virus sound and architecture, adding more usability and depth to it. For example the Moog emulated filters of the Virus C are a mainstay, why not add to them, or add greater flexibility in the LFOs and envelopes, or add FM as a new oscillator type. These things certainly wouldn't damage what the Virus is. They'd enhance it, and carry it further.

That's one of the reasons I'm just surprised the TI|2 hardware hasn't taken a step forward. I thought Access had a prime opportunity not to rehash the same hardware interface, and add something like a step sequencer (like the Radias for example) to the user interface with 16 buttons/knobs or similar - just something to differentiate it from former Viruses yet enhance it at the same time.

If anyone wanted a simpler Virus then by all means they could grab a Virus B or C.

My 2¢.

[LivePsy]

Hi Timo. I won't disagree with you :). Whatever our views are, its a luxury to be discussing this (like we own Access or something) rather than moaning about an unsupported product with unfixed bugs. I can understand if Access leave the TI2 as it is. However, a totally new product with modular flexibility and many choices of osc and filters would have a place alongside the TI and I wouldn't feel cheated for having a TI now and seeing such a behemoth announced in a year or two.

My feeling is that hardware synths are not the place to explore radical new synth technologies and boutique emulations. The production cycle is too long and the physical delivery adds costs which require the manufacturer to make a synth guaranteed to be popular. The original Virus was exactly that even though we didn't know it until we fell in love with it. But good ideas which don't get mass appeal are just another business loss. Software (with optional specialised hardware to plug into your USB port) is where the open ended versatility and experimental stuff can best succeed.

If the TI can turn into Reaktor with an OS update, I'm so there already. If not, I am still completely happy with it.

Cheers,
B

[Talos]

In my opinion, the only mistake Access made with the TI 2 is in the naming of it.
The "2" implies it is a new version with new features, but Mk1 owners have all the same features through OS updates.

If it had been called Virus TI Stage, or something that implied "TI Final version for live use", I think it would have been received much better.

[Joey]

Hi Timo. I won't disagree with you :). Whatever our views are, its a luxury to be discussing this (like we own Access or something) rather than moaning about an unsupported product with unfixed bugs. I can understand if Access leave the TI2 as it is. However, a totally new product with modular flexibility and many choices of osc and filters would have a place alongside the TI and I wouldn't feel cheated for having a TI now and seeing such a behemoth announced in a year or two.

My feeling is that hardware synths are not the place to explore radical new synth technologies and boutique emulations. The production cycle is too long and the physical delivery adds costs which require the manufacturer to make a synth guaranteed to be popular. The original Virus was exactly that even though we didn't know it until we fell in love with it. But good ideas which don't get mass appeal are just another business loss. Software (with optional specialised hardware to plug into your USB port) is where the open ended versatility and experimental stuff can best succeed.

If the TI can turn into Reaktor with an OS update, I'm so there already. If not, I am still completely happy with it.

Cheers,
B

See I think thats where we differ... I don't want a computer and I don't want reaktor, I want a great sounding instrument.

I agree with you that we should be happy with the Ti the way it is... I definitely am happy with it.

When I talk about new features I mean for future access models... the way I see things the virus name has gone pretty far, I wouldnt be surprised if the next thing access rolled out had a different name or concept altogether

If they want to add them to the Virus Ti then fuck yes, but I am content with it this way too.

As for the TI features going unused... I don't use viruscontrol really at all, but I make it a point to use the newer TI stuff that brings its full potential out

the hypersaw stuff and wavetables offer way too much variety to bother with analog emulation, I have my analog synths for analog sounds... I use the virus for sounds other gear cant even come close to

[LivePsy]

See I think thats where we differ... I don't want a computer and I don't want reaktor, I want a great sounding instrument.

Actually, I don't want a computer either! But I see that is the direction to go if you want 10 filter models and 20 oscillilator models and serious modulation of anything to anything. If a Virus had those capabilities and you only wanted to use the hardware knobs, that's an extremely complex thing to manage in a 3 line display. Personally I would want a computer editor but leave the performing to the Virus standalone - yes good old MIDI!

B

[Joey]

Actually, I don't want a computer either! But I see that is the direction to go if you want 10 filter models and 20 oscillilator models and serious modulation of anything to anything. If a Virus had those capabilities and you only wanted to use the hardware knobs, that's an extremely complex thing to manage in a 3 line display. Personally I would want a computer editor but leave the performing to the Virus standalone - yes good old MIDI!

B

all I really want are comb filters

and maybe a third envelope

[emdebee]

I know it's been said before but all I want is reliable timing with the arps and envelopes using Virus Control... I can't believe that this is still an issue - hrmmm

It's doing my head in!

[marc]

I know it's been said before but all I want is reliable timing with the arps and envelopes using Virus Control... I can't believe that this is still an issue - hrmmm

It's doing my head in!

i don't think there is any type of timing problem as long as the rest of your system is okay. can you be a little bit more specific?

marc

[markorbit]

but there is negligable difference between TI and TI2, and for a £700 difference in price it's pure daylight robbery.

Maybe Access could not have given the original TI owners the new functions of the TI2. Would that be more acceptable?

I think Access were more than fair with this decision and let's not beat them with it!

[Talos]

Maybe Access could not have given the original TI owners the new functions of the TI2. Would that be more acceptable?

I think Access were more than fair with this decision and let's not beat them with it!

I agree totally, I think Access strategy works really well for them and us the customers.

Every year since release the TI has had significant and useful features added, this has made what I thought was an expensive item more and more reasonable value.

I just hope the original TI doesn't get left behind at some point because TI2 users demand unique features.

[Cantankerous]

I agree totally, I think Access strategy works really well for them and us the customers.

Every year since release the TI has had significant and useful features added, this has made what I thought was an expensive item more and more reasonable value.

I just hope the original TI doesn't get left behind at some point because TI2 users demand unique features.

I fully agree with this. I know Marc said the Ti wasn't going anywhere, and that they were planning on releasing OS versions for both variants 'as long as technically possible'. I highly doubt a mere 25% more processing power of the Ti2 will allow for exclusive features not found on the original Ti. If that happens, it will be merely to separate the Ti from the Ti2 once and for all. I really hope this doesn't happen. It will only take one release of such an update to have many of us already feeling left behind.

I also agree that Access has hands down the BEST customer service around. I never got my Ti till last June, but even since then there have been many, many great additions and improvements to the Ti. In a mere 8 months I have gained so much that I never thought I would have. I can only imagine how much people have gained who first got their synth since it was released nearly 2.5 years ago.

I think other companies should take a good hard look at how Access works to keep its customers happy. Novation for instance is now charging $30 for a 'pro' upgrade to their Automap software. I emailed about this and they said it was to cover development costs. Sounds like a cash grab to me. Do you not thing it cost Access hundreds upon hundreds of hours to research and develop all they have added to the Ti range of synths? They allowed us all to benefit from this without dipping further into our pockets for even a single penny. Shame on you Novation. I for one will not pay for an update I feel I should have considering I already payed good money for your hardware.

[emdebee]

i don't think there is any type of timing problem as long as the rest of your system is okay. can you be a little bit more specific?

marc

Hi Marc... I sent a Logic 8 project to Access shortly after my purchase which exhibited notes being cut off at random and issues with the Arps not being triggered correctly - ie. the Arp pattern not starting at the beginning as it should. The TI was not even close to being DSP stressed. From memory, the main issues were when only 2 patches were playing, in contrast to 6-7 patches playing at the same time with no problems whatsoever. This issue was replicated by Access, but surprisingly at different measures within the same project! The issues with the random cutting off of notes was fixed with a firmware/software update (I think it was 2.7.3), but the original project that I sent to them STILL has issues with the ARP accuracy to this day.

I can assure you that my system is fine... and I have the same issues on 2 seperate installed systems, both of them now running OS X 10.5.6, Logic Pro 8.0.2, 17" MacBook Pro - Core2Duo 2.33GHz - 3 GB RAM (TI Firewire Chipset), RME FF800. I don't have any issues with anything else at all on my DAW's...

It's got me buggered, and it's been an issue ever since the purchase of my TI Keyboard.

[marc]

The issues with the random cutting off of notes was fixed with a firmware/software update (I think it was 2.7.3), but the original project that I sent to them STILL has issues with the ARP accuracy to this day.

please send me the project privately or at least the case issue number so i can look it up in support.

thanks, marc