Make VC part channel look like it is in the Snow?

[Cantankerous]

Hi guys. Originally I was going to ask how the individual in this youtube video got his VC to look as it did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Pz4kN69Dw

I then realized, with only 4 parts showing, he must be using a Snow. I am wondering now. Since most of us don't, or even can't use all 16 parts of VC due to DSP limitations, why have it list 16 seperate channels having them so squished in view by default? Would it be possible in a future update to perhaps have the left panel blank, and the user can say, right click and choose how many channels he/she wishes to add to VC? Kind of like right clicking on a blank project in Cubase to add a track only when desireable? I would love to have a blank slate and just add say 3, 4 or however many parts the user wishes with each part being larger in size due to no longer having to display all 16 by default. In the video above I am loving the much larger size per channel, having a pan slider instead of a knob, and a much bigger activity bar. Anything under x amount of channels will have a pan slider due to size not being an option, and as soon as size does become an issue then it goes back to a knob like it is now. It shouldn't be too hard to implement I would think since clearly the snow already has such a view. Just need to adopt that to the bigger brother line of Ti's.

Thanks for reading.

[DiScO]

I like the sound of that. I think it's a great idea as I very rarely use more than 3 parts simultaneously for the very reasons you mention, but do struggle with the controls due to their size. Yes please Access! :D

Cheers.

[Cantankerous]

Thanks for the reply! It is nice to know that someone else sees where I am coming from. I think it is a terrific idea. Seeing the Youtube Video above clearly shows just how much clearer and easier VC is to use if the listed parts are larger. I really like my idea about being able to choose how many parts, cause NO ONE that I have ever talked to uses more than 3-4 parts max. Just a simple right click, add part and voila, it is there. No more having all 16 parts listed when you won't even use 1/4 of them.

[Totty]

Yep I'm with that one. I challenge anyone to use 16 parts and have no dsp issues (or even 8!). I think the whole synth should be limited to 8 parts. It may even work better then:)

[DiScO]

Yes, at most 8. I always find myself bouncing before I even get to 3 parts due to polyphony etc so I will never, and have never used 16 parts. I normally bounce with 2 now anyways as some patches are just so gutsy. Plus, from a timing point of view with the arps and stuff, once your happy and it's bounced it's not an issue when starting off half way through a bar etc. Anyone from Access listening? I would like to see this in 3.0.1 please!

Yours sincerely,

Virus TI lover.
:cool:

[Talos]

What you're talking about is purely cosmetic, and cosidering VC has just had a major facelift all for the better IMO, it's not necessary.

A dynamic part list might be desirable, but it's far down my wish list after things that actually affect the sound.

You can limit the synth to whatever number of voices you want already, no problems there.

I regularly use sounds with more than 4 parts. The 16 channels are just that, 16 MIDI channels. Why would you want to reduce the flexibility of the synth?

[Cantankerous]

We are not saying it has to have its flexibility reduced, we are simply asking for a way to manually assign how many parts/channels are visible at one given time without being dictated on it being 16 and nothing but. By having less parts/channels the view of each channel gets bigger and easier to work with. I would love to use a slider instead of a knob for panning and though it may be cosmetic, how things look play a big role in how a user enjoys using the product.

[marc]

Yep I'm with that one. I challenge anyone to use 16 parts and have no dsp issues (or even 8!). I think the whole synth should be limited to 8 parts. It may even work better then:)

you can do this already: just use 8 parts! - when midi was designed and a maximum of 16 channels was defined, nobody said that just because there are 16 channels you also can use 16 at the same time. it all depends on which sounds you choose and how heavy they are.

marc

[Totty]

you can do this already: just use 8 parts! - when midi was designed and a maximum of 16 channels was defined, nobody said that just because there are 16 channels you also can use 16 at the same time. it all depends on which sounds you choose and how heavy they are.

marc

Hi Marc, I know that.

But when the first Multitimbral synths were around I don't think they had quite the dynamic resources that we now appreciate. What I was getting at is that is that if the TI was limited to 8 parts, would it help it's resource allocation. I don't know that and I may be wrong, so please correct me if I am mistaken:)

Regards

[Cantankerous]

you can do this already: just use 8 parts! - when midi was designed and a maximum of 16 channels was defined, nobody said that just because there are 16 channels you also can use 16 at the same time. it all depends on which sounds you choose and how heavy they are.

marc


So Marc, now that you have officially seen and replied in this thread, what do you personally feel about the option to allow users to insert parts only as needed, keeping the channel list clutter free, yet bigger in size for parts/channels that are in use? Even if not permanently made this way, what are the chances of this being implemented as a manually changeable user option in a future release?

Just hoping that it would be official considered, if nothing else.

Thanks for reading and replying.

[marc]

So Marc, now that you have officially seen and replied in this thread, what do you personally feel about the option to allow users to insert parts only as needed, keeping the channel list clutter free, yet bigger in size for parts/channels that are in use? Even if not permanently made this way, what are the chances of this being implemented as a manually changeable user option in a future release?

Just hoping that it would be official considered, if nothing else.

Thanks for reading and replying.

a channel with an init sound is compromising any resource as long as you don't play it. if you refer to it visually i think it would be great but i'm not sure how to implement this right now.

best, marc

[Totty]

So if you don't use a channel it doesn't use any resource?

[Cantankerous]

Yes Marc, visually is exactly how I was thinking it would be beneficial as well. I understand that just because the parts are listed, doesn't mean you have to use them. But since no one ever uses all parts, why not have VC load with a blank palette on the left hand side of VC and the user can just add parts as they need them, and only add parts as they need them. I have no clue how to add parts in every DAW, but I love how Cubase starts with a blank work area, and just by right clicking you can select to add a track type, and the number of tracks you would like. Perhaps have something similar in VC where the user just right clicks on the blank area and selects to add a part, or a few at a time by selecting the amount they would like to add. If they want 16 parts then fine, 16 loads and looks just like it looks now. If not, then the parts can be shown larger in size much like they do on the Snow in the Youtube video posted in the first posting in this thread. I am sure you guys can figure it out, afterall, you have gotten much harder things working between the Virus and VC.

[Talos]

Why are you insisting people don't use xx parts, you can't know how most people use thier instrument. I regularly use 4 parts just for 1 sound, and I like having all the MIDI channels available at once in the browser.

Adding MIDI tracks as needed is counter-intuitive, I could just as easily say "please add a feature so people who DON'T use certain MIDI tracks can remove them one at a time"

If it was dynamic, so say as you drop patches onto a blank area it adds new channels ok, but that isnt what you have suggested.
To add MIDI tracks one at a time will certainly slow down my workflow and will not be appreciated as default behaviour!

I see no need for large pan / volume handles as they are already provided within the patch itself, on the hardware unit and of course under automation.

[Cantankerous]

Like anything my friend, it is a matter of personal preference either way. You seem hell bent on contesting my idea and that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Since you seem to feel I am insisting on things being a certain way, I will no longer share my feelings on this topic and will leave it up to other users whether they agree or not, and will also leave it up to Access themselves whether they wish to implement this idea, in any way, shape or form.

[marc]

So if you don't use a channel it doesn't use any resource?

a channel which doesn't play doesn't eat any CPU time. it can block resources (such as memory) though. therefore i said "with an init sound" because with the init sound, the delay and reverb are disabled.

best, marc

[Talos]

I'm not hell bent on anything thanks Cantankerous, but you don't seem to realise that removing the available options stops other users from using the VC the normal way (all options available at once).

However inverting your idea so people can remove existing channels or set a preference doesn't spoil workflow or existing practices.

My only gripe is that a new feature like this would detract from development time for actual sound related features. Considering the GUI is currently the best it has ever been, why fix what isn't broken?

[Totty]

a channel which doesn't play doesn't eat any CPU time. it can block resources (such as memory) though. therefore i said "with an init sound" because with the init sound, the delay and reverb are disabled.

best, marc

Thanks Marc, that's clear now.

Michael

[Totty]

Regarding the unused parts. No one said that other use their synth in a certain way. But if someone can show me a project successfully running more than 8 simultaneous parts id be rather pleased to hear that. It's my experience and others here that it's just not practical to do this due to dsp limitations.

So with that in mind, there isn't much to loose by only showing 4-8 parts initially, with scope to add more if necessary.

[Talos]

It's running 16 patches from the moment it boots up.

I use more than 10 TI patches in almost all my projects, I would be interested how many other people use on average.

[Totty]

So you can get 10 parts actually playing all at the same time? What are you playing 10 init patches?!:confused:

If I do that I get note stealing and pops

[DiScO]

I still think it's a top idea. You could have the option in the VC config page, something like a drop down list with the options 4, 8 or 16. That way, everybody is happy and you can either keep your 16, have a slightly larger 8 and an even bigger 4, which is what I would have it on personally. Would it really suck up that much development time? It's half way there with the snow aint it?

Cheers.

[Cantankerous]

Just a bump as I am sure this thread is long lost by now. I also posted this on the new Virus forum for greater view-ability.

Any word on whether this can be implemented? Considering the exact layout we are after is already evident in the Snow, can it not someone be worked to be loaded with the other Virus variants?

As DiScO mentioned above, an option in the VC config page to choose the amount of listed parts would be fantastic, and the less you choose, the bigger the parts are shown visually. If you still want to have 16, you can freely do so. Having the volume and pan as sliders would be a nice touch instead of having it set to pots which we know is only because of space constrictions, constrictions that wouldn't be a problem if my idea can be worked out.