View Full Version : Seems to me or all Viruses are packed full of problems?
Hey there,
I have several other pieces of hardware equipment (namely JV-1080, M1R, FB01, TX1P, DSS-1) and never had to tweak around them to make them work properly.
Instead, I installed the newest operating system for my Virus Rack (2.2, dated 2004!) and it still has some problems, like hard-clipping some instruments while keeping the volume to 127 (seems to clip the internal A/D D/A), a noisy hiss (not too loud), and the WARN mode working only in MULTI while editing patches.
Reading this forum, seems that *every* Virus got some annoying problem, here or there. Since all the other hardware I got is Japanese made, are Japanese better in engineering and manufacturing instruments than good old Germans?
I wonder why Access releases stuff with trouble.
Doc Jones
15.03.2009, 02:25 PM
keep in mind that the people that have issues with their virus are the ones that are going to post about it to try to find a resolution. Very rarely will a person just randomly post on a forum "hey, it's Tuesday and everything is running great"
by the way, it's Sunday and my virus is working great ;)
keep in mind that the people that have issues with their virus are the ones that are going to post about it to try to find a resolution. Very rarely will a person just randomly post on a forum "hey, it's Tuesday and everything is running great"
Of course what you say is right, but it's a LOT of people complaining if you know what I mean... just give a look to the appropriate section and even to this one: sync problems, crash, freeze, blink, glitches in the OS, unwanted distortion... there's a payload full!
Also my Virus is working neatly and sounding great, but I have to keep in mind that some patch *requires* to be tampered in order to be playable...
mitchiemasha
15.03.2009, 07:04 PM
no 1 remember old skool synths? they were very unstable.
things like the jv1080 (i still have 1) are actualy a rom player (sample based) and not a synth as such.
I have a nord 2 this is great, retails for abt the same i think back then. it is only 4 part and has no effects. thats lots more crammd in your virus to use up its power.
lots of problems are usealy due to incorrect set up, especialy ti related. we are a demanding bunch too so they keep having to make rush releases.
if anything they should be praised for how well they deal with there customers and the stuff they give us for free. like the new plug in software Ti2 for the Ti1. they could of jst kept the new features as new features of the Ti2 or even charged for ppl to upgrade.
Hey there,
I have several other pieces of hardware equipment (namely JV-1080, M1R, FB01, TX1P, DSS-1) and never had to tweak around them to make them work properly.
Instead, I installed the newest operating system for my Virus Rack (2.2, dated 2004!) and it still has some problems, like hard-clipping some instruments while keeping the volume to 127 (seems to clip the internal A/D D/A), a noisy hiss (not too loud), and the WARN mode working only in MULTI while editing patches.
Reading this forum, seems that *every* Virus got some annoying problem, here or there. Since all the other hardware I got is Japanese made, are Japanese better in engineering and manufacturing instruments than good old Germans?
I wonder why Access releases stuff with trouble.
the warn mode was intended to work in multi mode only. in single mode, it appears obvious that storing a patch stores all changes, in multi mode you store the multi but not the changes possibly made to the single sounds.
if you clip a sound you have to turn it down, that's just the way it is.
the D/As used at this time don't have the specs available to D/A we use nowadays and i'm pretty sure that the equipment you've listed above has worse D/As than the ones in the virus rack.
as for bugs i think they are just a part of every software distribution. i won't start comparing but at least the synths you've listed above are not perfect either. the difference is: we (access) care about the bugs.
best, marc
My Korg (Japanese) clips and distorts to hell if the levels aren't manually set up properly.
... and it still has some problems, like hard-clipping some instruments while keeping the volume to 127 (seems to clip the internal A/D D/A)
With digital, regardless of how much headroom a person is given, people still want to turn it up beyond it!
Unfortunately that's not how it works, and you need to recondition your perceptions of working with digital, otherwise no headroom will ever be enough.
Imagine you're in a room. There's a wall in front of you, and you run up to it, headbutting it trying to go beyond it. That's someone trying to exceed 16-bit.
Now imagine a scientific boffin has removed that wall and has given you a new wall about 15 yards away. You say "yay!", and despite having all this extra room to bounce around in you instead turn up the level and run up to the wall and repeatedly headbutt it in an attempt to go beyond it. That's someone trying to exceed 24-bit.
Now imagine a scientific boffin now removes this wall and instead gives you a new wall about 30yards away. You say "yay!", and despite having all this massive, massive space to bounce around in you instead turn up the level and run up to the wall and repeatedly headbutt it in an attempt to go beyond it...
Where will it end?
Learn to use the signal within the barriers you're given, not beyond it. You don't always have to use the last 10% of the available headroom. This might have been the case when using 8-bits as the noise floor was high, but this was reduced substantially when using 16-bits, but with 24-bit the noise-floor is literally insignificant! So explore and use all the space within it.
If you use loads of unison, etc. where the patch needs more headroom as the overall sound level increases, you should turn down the overall patch level accordingly. That's perfectly normal! It will not hurt the signal! The Virus uses 24-bit for calculations and has 24-bit D/A. You have tons of room for all the signal. You just need to learn to use it.
I generally tend to keep my patch levels at 90-100, and only consciously turn them up beyond that when needing a 'level boost' for very quiet patches.
If any patches clip, turn the internal patch level down. If you find the rest of the signal is now too quiet for you, you either need to program your patch to be less dynamic in the first place, or you can use a compressor or limiter after it if desired.
and the WARN mode working only in MULTI while editing patches.
That's because editing Multis on the earlier Viruses actually overwrite the Single patches that are being referenced. There is no extra memory in Multi mode for storing tweaked patches within them. So if you tweak a patch in Multi mode, that same patch will also be permanently changed in Single mode.
I'm not sure about your noise/hiss query, you might have to go into more detail with that for us.
[damn, did it really take me that long to write]
aetheria
15.03.2009, 08:50 PM
Just my experience here - for a while when the TI was new the OS seemed to have some problems and people were having different issues with things like clicks and pops. Things got a lot better over time though.
I bought a used KB model and can tell you one thing - a lot of the issues I had had with it disappeared immediately when I dismantled it and thoroughly cleaned it. I sprayed every knob thoroughly with contact cleaner, sprayed the inside thoroughly with compressed air, put it back together, and it has worked great.
It seems that gunk that gets into the knobs can cause havok somehow with the circuitry - that at least is what was happening in my case.
One nice thing about the way the Virus is built is that it is extremely easy to take apart.
Beyond all that, I just want to say that the sounds that this instrument is capable of creating are absolutely mind-blowing and I have never heard anything in my life like it. Even if I could only play one sustained chord on my Virus, if that was the only use for it, it would still be eminently worth it to me because that sound is beyond comparison to any other synthesizer I have ever heard.
the warn mode was intended to work in multi mode only. in single mode, it appears obvious that storing a patch stores all changes, in multi mode you store the multi but not the changes possibly made to the single sounds.
if you clip a sound you have to turn it down, that's just the way it is.
the D/As used at this time don't have the specs available to D/A we use nowadays and i'm pretty sure that the equipment you've listed above has worse D/As than the ones in the virus rack.
as for bugs i think they are just a part of every software distribution. i won't start comparing but at least the synths you've listed above are not perfect either. the difference is: we (access) care about the bugs.
best, marc
Thank you very much for you answer and thank also to the other answers.
The WARN mode is especially useful when editing also a SINGLE, because it engages also when one is trying to change instrument without saving (in MULTI) not only when pressing the STORE button!
Your answer addresses very well my doubts and I will keep it in mind.
Best regards
The WARN mode is especially useful when editing also a SINGLE, because it engages also when one is trying to change instrument without saving (in MULTI) not only when pressing the STORE button!
sure, it is intended to warn people who might forget to save the changes done to a SINGLE used in a MULTI mode context.
marc
telson
16.03.2009, 01:09 PM
the difference is: we (access) care about the bugs.
fsx : PAY ATTENTION TO THIS !!!!! ;)
Talos
16.03.2009, 03:34 PM
Seems to me or all Viruses are packed full of problems?
I wonder why Access releases stuff with trouble.
Mine isn't packed full of problems or trouble, it's packed full of widgets that make Bass 'n' Supersaw 'n' Wavetable goodness.
Honestly, I'm not sure why some people are so down on the Virus recently, the TI is way better than the old C, which I made many of my best (Drum n Bass) tunes on.
I have heard many great sounds made with the TI and enjoy it as the next development in Access Virus line.
On top of that I have not experienced better tech support (AND new features!) than Access provide, even though some of my Synths cost a lot more.
Great post Timo, I think you nailed it there.^
thelike5
16.03.2009, 03:54 PM
I purchased my first access synth (Snow) as soon as it was announced. I was amongst the first people in North America to own one.
I usually don't like to buy the first batch of anything but with Access I knew that whatever was released was going to be frequently updated, supported and most importantly, sound amazing.
The TI software has seen its fair share of glitches, no doubt, but the current OS is stable and runs fine for me.
Access got my money over Waldorf becuase they support what they release better then anybody. If Korg or Roland ever had a TI1 type of software to begin with, then released a new line of sythns that used a TI2 protocal, do you think things like patches would be backwards compatible? They wouldn't and at that point your first version TI1 synth would have stopped being supported.
Sure, you can save a few dollars with Korg or Roland if you wait until the product is about to be phased out as every thing gets lowered dramatically but at the same time you know the support is getting dropped, too. Access also flat out sounds better (in my opinion) then any other VA on the market.
You get what you pay for.
Cantankerous
16.03.2009, 05:39 PM
Mine isn't packed full of problems or trouble, it's packed full of widgets that make Bass 'n' Supersaw 'n' Wavetable goodness.
Honestly, I'm not sure why some people are so down on the Virus recently, the TI is way better than the old C, which I made many of my best (Drum n Bass) tunes on.
I have heard many great sounds made with the TI and enjoy it as the next development in Access Virus line.
On top of that I have not experienced better tech support (AND new features!) than Access provide, even though some of my Synths cost a lot more.
Great post Timo, I think you nailed it there.^
Is DnB your primary musical style? Do you have any tracks of yours that I can hear?
I purchased my first access synth (Snow) as soon as it was announced. I was amongst the first people in North America to own one.
I usually don't like to buy the first batch of anything but with Access I knew that whatever was released was going to be frequently updated, supported and most importantly, sound amazing.
The TI software has seen its fair share of glitches, no doubt, but the current OS is stable and runs fine for me.
Access got my money over Waldorf becuase they support what they release better then anybody. If Korg or Roland ever had a TI1 type of software to begin with, then released a new line of sythns that used a TI2 protocal, do you think things like patches would be backwards compatible? They wouldn't and at that point your first version TI1 synth would have stopped being supported.
Sure, you can save a few dollars with Korg or Roland if you wait until the product is about to be phased out as every thing gets lowered dramatically but at the same time you know the support is getting dropped, too. Access also flat out sounds better (in my opinion) then any other VA on the market.
You get what you pay for.
Ok I didn't want to put shame on their products, I was just pointing out something that seems to be seen quite often here. For example, even after having upgraded to the latest (and last due to its age) OSR, I couldn't fix the demosong to play like the one on the website (the very nice fluxcompensator.mp3). So, to solve the problem I overwritten it with 512 new patches, which they provided for free (very admirable).
So please stop harassing me with accusation! =P
I wouldn't exchange my Virus for another synth AND if I will have enough money I would purchase another.
suzzymackenzie
17.03.2009, 07:44 AM
I think that Access really does care about those bugs. All bugs captured are very well looked after, in a humane (if secure) environment, before eventual shipping to Japan where they are rehabilitated and found work in lesser machines.
My perspective wasn't progress to Virus from other synths: the Virus is the first synth I have ever owned. I certainly had some naive notions that modern digital stuff works first time every time, but I have been slowly adjusting to the reality that is the mixture of science and artistry that is complex hardware inspired and enabled by software. From Timo's post I derived the more general message that the task and joy is to work within this instrument's (already generous) limitations. If the Virus really does, statistically, throw up the most issues - and I guess this honour has to go to one synth or another - for me this is more than compensated by the sense that there are people in labs and offices dedicated to making it work and making the next one work even better :)
annikk.exe
17.03.2009, 09:39 AM
My Virus TI isn't the first synth I've owned, but it's by far the most powerful and complex synth I've ever used. Given the enormous power and flexibility of the device, I'm willing to forgive the occasional stuck note or bootup connection problem.
Also, it's called Virus. VIRUS MAN. The name alone makes me melt and want to forgive any failings. :>
VIRUS.
Yus.
-Annikk
Purusha
19.03.2009, 08:44 AM
the difference is: we (access) care about the bugs.
best, marc
*Spits coffee over his monitor*
http://www.petitiononline.com/VIRUSTCP/petition.html
telson
19.03.2009, 09:48 AM
Purusha what is that ?
so ... what ?? :p
go there and sign ... too easy to do , to easy to say
or run and get a Korg or Alesis or Waldorf
find a synth without bugs and buy it
Shambler
19.03.2009, 10:22 AM
I have only had problems with beta OS releases which is understandable.
Other than that my VirusTI Desktop has been ultra stable and sounds great!
Personally, my TI is *finally* stable, and ****ing awesome.
*Spits coffee over his monitor*
http://www.petitiononline.com/VIRUSTCP/petition.html
purusha, don't forget to point users to the thread on the TC website as well. the one where TC and us stated that we are looking into it. this ways they also can see how you try to give me a negative image.
but this doesn't mean it's suddenly okay to post off topic or misleading just to make sure as many people as possible know what you think about access, about your problems and recently about me personally.
you know that we said we're looking into the TC related problems some time ago. you also know that there was a more recent post on the TC forum which states progress.
i'm getting a little tired of your attacks to be honest. and you repeat to shoot the messenger - not the sherrif:
http://forum.tcelectronic.com/viewtopic.php?id=2449&p=9
marc
annikk.exe
19.03.2009, 03:45 PM
Stop being mean to Marc!
Marc is not Access. He just works for them. He is not solely responsible for their victories or their failings. Marc anyway is nice and helps people on these forums with their problems for free.
Besides, it sounds like Access are looking into your concerns anyway. They have a much faster turnaround for patches and the like than other synth manufacturers. How about some patience while they do their work?
Sorry to hear you spilled your coffee. Maybe instead you would like a nice hot cup of **** *** **** **...
./growl
-Annikk
LivePsy
19.03.2009, 09:50 PM
If I could do my life all over again, I would buy all the keyboards I have but never read forums. I've wasted so much time reading complaints, thinking about the negatives of a product and at times defending a product from an angry post. A single complaining post gets seen by hundreds of people but hundreds of people happily using a TI never gets noticed.
If equipment does something odd or lacks a feature then give the manufacturer a chance to fix it, or move on. Its your loss, don't make the rest of the world suffer with you.
B
Purusha
19.03.2009, 10:30 PM
purusha, don't forget to point users to the thread on the TC website as well. the one where TC and us stated that we are looking into it. this ways they also can see how you try to give me a negative image.
but this doesn't mean it's suddenly okay to post off topic or misleading just to make sure as many people as possible know what you think about access, about your problems and recently about me personally.
you know that we said we're looking into the TC related problems some time ago. you also know that there was a more recent post on the TC forum which states progress.
i'm getting a little tired of your attacks to be honest. and you repeat to shoot the messenger - not the sherrif:
http://forum.tcelectronic.com/viewtopic.php?id=2449&p=9
marc
This thread:
http://forum.tcelectronic.com/viewtopic.php?id=2449
which I've repeatedly linked to from this forum. I agree, it's well worth checking out for anyone who thinks I might be misleading people.
This thread is titled "Seems to me or all Viruses are packed full of problems", so I'm very much on-topic I reckon.
Yes - you said you were looking into the problems in October last year and we're still waiting.
Please provide evidence of any "attacks" I've made on you. I'm not aware of any.
Chris
Purusha
19.03.2009, 10:33 PM
They have a much faster turnaround for patches and the like than other synth manufacturers. How about some patience while they do their work?
More than 5 years to even get Access interested in looking at those issues!
Reckon my patience lasted 3 of them.
;)
Edit: for clarification, I'm talking about virus on powercore here, not ti. I also own a ti, but haven't had any major issues with it so far. The virus b I used to own was solid.
Please provide evidence of any "attacks" I've made on you. I'm not aware of any.Chris
chris, here is just two examples:
"My experience with Marc over at virusti.com wasn't good though. It ranged from patronising me to ignoring me."
"He has had a habit of trying to make me look bad every time I've mentioned the virus problems in the past."
you can post whatever you like about the company i'm working for. but you shouldn't post statements about me since you don't know me a thing. to keep things simple i'll do my best to ignore your posts in the future. that will make a part of your statement true but at least you will have no reason to feel being patronised or made looking bad.
marc
telson
20.03.2009, 07:04 AM
More than 5 years to even get Access interested in looking at those issues!
Reckon my patience lasted 3 of them.
3 years of patience purusha ?????? 3 years ????? :eek::eek::eek:
it means that you love extremely your powercore and your virus ;)
bravo bravo purusha , good choice really !!! ;-)
Purusha
20.03.2009, 08:44 AM
chris, here is just two examples:
"My experience with Marc over at virusti.com wasn't good though. It ranged from patronising me to ignoring me."
"He has had a habit of trying to make me look bad every time I've mentioned the virus problems in the past."
you can post whatever you like about the company i'm working for. but you shouldn't post statements about me since you don't know me a thing. to keep things simple i'll do my best to ignore your posts in the future. that will make a part of your statement true but at least you will have no reason to feel being patronised or made looking bad.
marc
Hardly "attacks"!? They're my personal (and perfectly justifiable) thoughts on my previous dealings with you: a representative and spokesperson for Access. Access being a company I have handed considerable sums of money to over the years (Virus B, Powercore Virus, Virus Ti).
Like I say - the hardware has generally been great. The Powercore version (which is part of the Virus family) is almost un-usable for the vast majority of people - as Access (after several years of seeming denial) now seem to have conceded.
It's not like I'm constantly bashing Access. I have done my fair share of praising them and holding them up as example in the past. E.g.:
http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31875&sid=707d1d6a834bfd6b0ddf2f43c084f34e
Even though I own a Ti, I'd still like to use my Powercore DSPs to run virus along-side if we can get it going.
It's great that, after a great deal of pressure from me, and people in the same situation, Access has now started work on bug-fixing. I really appreciate that. With luck, we'll get a beta in the next month or 2.
I may not be a professional musician who relies on this kit, I'm more of a hobbyist or semi-pro, but surely that shouldn't mean I can't ask for fundamental problems to be addressed in what's probably the most expensive piece of software I own (650 UKP-ish when I bought it IIRC)?
it means that you love extremely your powercore and your virus ;)
What it actually means is: I have a fair few patches I originally put together on a Virus B which I'd like to keep using.
;)
I'd no intention of derailing a thread on here, but saying that Access cares about bugs where the rest don't - given many people's experience with this member of the Virus family, was something I really couldn't leave un-challenged.
So - I'll leave this thread and take the fight back over to the TC now that I know you are actually reading the comments over there.
Chris
telson
20.03.2009, 09:58 AM
i think that your major problem is Marc , and not powercore
however , keep in mind that we like and respect Marc
his help is precious ;)
Purusha
20.03.2009, 10:13 AM
i think that your major problem is Marc , and not powercore
Sorry, but that's really not the case at all.
If and when the software works properly, Marc will disappear off my radar.
Talos
20.03.2009, 11:30 AM
Sorry to join, I was holding off but after 5 negative comments I feel I have to say, this was a good thread until Purusha shoved his way in.
Purusha, firstly you already have threads about your pet gripe that interested people have posted in.
I am not one of them. I own a Powercore Virus and am happy with it. Sorry if you're having problems but you are in a minority.
If you NEED to use a Virus B for your sounds as you say, why are you using a Powercore and complaining? The Virus B is very affordable and totally stable.
Second, there is NO EXCUSE for your comments aimed at specific people, especially when said people help the community for no personal gain.
If I had seen you helping new users out I would defend you also, however I have never seen anything but negativity from you.
Please don't quote me or answer I am not looking for an argument, simply stating my opinion.
Thanks for ruining another thread I WAS enjoying.
Purusha
20.03.2009, 11:51 AM
If I had seen you helping new users out I would defend you also, however I have never seen anything but negativity from you.
Here's my posting history on this forum:
http://www.infekted.org/virus/search.php?searchid=63108&pp=25
Only the last few messages could be construed as "negative" I reckon.
Unless anyone else has a point to raise with me, I'll be off...
Talos
20.03.2009, 01:03 PM
No, it isn't, And I did state clearly that I didn't want to argue with you over nitpicky points.
Please do be off, and leave your bad attitude somewhere else.
This forum is AFAIK meant to be about Virus Synths not grudges.
Prime NL
20.03.2009, 01:11 PM
Here's my posting history on this forum:
http://www.infekted.org/virus/search.php?searchid=63108&pp=25
Only the last few messages could be construed as "negative" I reckon.
Unless anyone else has a point to raise with me, I'll be off...
*Clicks link*
Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms. :rolleyes:
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