What Firewire Audio Interface has the best value to feature ratio

[Nobl1v1on]

Ok I have been reading non-stop for weeks about audio interfaces. I have found that for my budget firewire is probably the way to go for me. Furthermore, I have really been looking into the newer Focusrite Saffire line, particularly the Saffire Pro 40, and the other items in that line. They present what seems to be sufficient features for running a bedroom studio and being able to put together more professional sounding music production work. It just seems like the market for these sort of products has become SOOOOOO inundated with gear claiming all these great features ect. I mean I was even beginning to wonder if I needed a 12 or 14 channel mixer if I were to purchase a interface with enough I/O. Anyway, where I am trying to go with this is; my fellow gear heads out there what are your opinions on Firewire interfaces. The ones you are presently using or have had an opportunity to use, because as we all probably know the sales staff at the Sweetwater and Mucian's Friend of the world will tell you they are all good. I finally have an opportunity to put together my home studio kit and I do not want to blow it in one of the more important aspects of having a solid setup...:confused:

Thanx In Advance
Lars:
Nobl1v1on:

Virus TI2 61 key, Roland JP8000, Elektron SFX 60 Mk.II Monomachine, Novation X-Station, Yamaha QY-70, Boss DR 202 Dr. Groove.

[feedingear]

If anyone has any specific advice regarding Firewire audio interfaces with using a PC setup (Core 2 quad 2.3ghz, 4gb ram, XP, Cubase 5) I'd really like to hear some advice as well - as I am considering getting an interface so I can send outs from Cubase into my filterbank, and back into the DAW.

[merlin]

Hi folks,


I have been reading and reading and asking a lot as well and this is what I have found:


-There are probably two major brands of firewire intefaces which have proven their quality: RME and Motu.

From these two, RME has slightly better sound quality (clear, crisp/clinical accuracy, anyway: German quality:)), while Motu (Canada) has some extra options and sounds a little warmer. For example, the Motu 828mkIII has eq and compressor/limiter per input and per submix.

-Check your firewire interface. If you are on a p.c. see to it that you have a firewire interface with a texas instruments chipset as these have proven to work. pci firewire cards with ti chipset are availabe for 25 euro' s or so.

-The firewire audiomarket has opened up lately. A lot of different brands are now selling fw interfaces as well, for example lexicon. whether these products are good or perhaps better, remains to be seen; At least rme and motu have survived the test of time but that does not mean the others sell rubbish. I am only saying the gamble is a little higher.

- I own a motu 828mkIII and I am very happy with it. The eq and compressor do a very good job and the sound without these features is already very good. I decided for that one as I came from an m-audio pci interface. Whatever I would have bought, it was already a big step up and I considered the features handy and welcome. This audio interface is now abused as my virtual mixer and mastering suite and can be used standalone/without a computer as well.


M.

[Timo]

I'm using Motu Traveler with Windows XP (Intel Core2 quad), and it works great. Regularly running audio from external synths/guitar into the computer and using VST effects on the incoming signal in near realtime at 1.5ms (44100Hz @ 64 buffer, or even 96000Hz @ 128 buffer) without any glitches. Admittedly I haven't stressed it with loads of multi-channel stuff, but am gearing up various things to try it.

If I'd had the money I'd have gone for the RME Fireface, but am pretty happy with the Motu. Has a nice GUI screen and routing possibilities too. Because it can be bus-powered by 6-pin firewire from the computer (which is the way I'm using it), it also removes one possibility of floating earth/ground issues too. You can still use a power adapter if you wish, though.

[Timo]

Motu Traveler review (June 2005): http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun05/articles/motutraveler.htm

RME Fireface 800 review (Dec 2004): http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec04/articles/fireface.htm

RME Fireface 400 review (July 2007): http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul07/articles/rmefireface400.htm

The Traveler mk3 has just been released, too (but not reviewed yet): http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler-mk3

[Hollowcell]

I went through the same thing a month of so ago as I needed an interface for live use - I ended up with an Echo Audiofire 4 for the following reasons:
1) Good PC driver support.
2) Same AD/DA converters as the Fireface 400.
3) Quite good Pres (with no digital gain).
4) No onboard FX or gimmicks, just a straight forward interface with good sound.
I have been very happy with it so far, and have even used it for some on location recording which wasn't the reason I bought it in the first place.

You have to watch out for with Firewire interfaces on PC though, as if your laptop has an inferior chipset the interface will not work well. Just make sure your laptop/PC is using a TexasInstruments chipset for Firewire and you'll be right.

[fgimian]

I went through the same thing a month of so ago as I needed an interface for live use - I ended up with an Echo Audiofire 4 for the following reasons:
1) Good PC driver support.
2) Same AD/DA converters as the Fireface 400.
3) Quite good Pres (with no digital gain).
4) No onboard FX or gimmicks, just a straight forward interface with good sound.
I have been very happy with it so far, and have even used it for some on location recording which wasn't the reason I bought it in the first place.

You have to watch out for with Firewire interfaces on PC though, as if your laptop has an inferior chipset the interface will not work well. Just make sure your laptop/PC is using a TexasInstruments chipset for Firewire and you'll be right.

I have been using a Layla3G for ages and absolutely LOVE IT! But of course, that's PCI. I was always curious to know how the Echo firewire interfaces performed. Can you get low latencies with the Audiofire? I usually run at 6ms with no issues with my Layla3G. It can go lower and works well, but starts to crackle when the project gets too busy.

[feedingear]

What are the pluses and minuses of using USB 2.0 interface over the Firewire interface? This isnt an area I know much about.

I am considering either a MOTU 828mkII or a MOTU Ultralike MK3 Firewire. Any help would be much loved!

[Hollowcell]

I have been using a Layla3G for ages and absolutely LOVE IT! But of course, that's PCI. I was always curious to know how the Echo firewire interfaces performed. Can you get low latencies with the Audiofire? I usually run at 6ms with no issues with my Layla3G. It can go lower and works well, but starts to crackle when the project gets too busy.

Yeah I went through a bit of setup issue at first as the Audiofire drivers weren't performing as well as I wanted - it was about 7ms in/out, but I wanted it to perform as well as my the desktop running PCI-RME in the studio was. I ended up trying the much hated ASIO4ALL driver and now the latency is no trouble at all with huge sets. Keep in mind I haven't done any huge multitrack recording though.

What are the pluses and minuses of using USB 2.0 interface over the Firewire interface? This isnt an area I know much about.

Pluses for USB: Pretty much complete connectivity, and very little chance of incompatibility..... but slow as all fuck - looking forward to reading about RMEs new USB box when it's more widely used as they might have squeezed more juice of USB2 (USB will always be slower, but RME are amazing with their gear).
Pluses for FW: Fast enough, but for great results needs more specific chipsets on the computer running the interface.

I would be going PCI for a desktop based DAW, but if you need to have something for both a laptop and desktop, then FW isn't a bad option these days. USB just didn't come close for what I needed, but maybe the new RME might be different - won't hold my breath though.

[feedingear]

I'm using desktop only, so Firewire cross compatability isn't an issue - so you think PCI/PCI-e is the way to go? Any recommendations as to what sort of brands/gear to investigate?

[gjvti]

Motu 828mkIII is great and if it had midi control in stand-alone mode it would be heaven! RME has full midi control, obviously better sound quality, but have no built in per channel eq/filter and compressor (what was important for me) - though I understand you can use send-return strategy, if you have an external effect processor, on RME as well. Of course, all these effect things are more important for mixer and not so important to interface.

[Hollowcell]

I'm using desktop only, so Firewire cross compatability isn't an issue - so you think PCI/PCI-e is the way to go? Any recommendations as to what sort of brands/gear to investigate?

Compatibility still can be an issue even on a PC destop as it all depends on what FW chipset your mainboard has. Even if you buy a PCI to FW card you still need to make sure of the chipset - that's FW for you though.

On a desktop I would always go PCI unless you want to buy something for both a laptop and desktop straight off, as it might be cheaper to kill two bird with one stone. Although if I add it up, it was actually cheaper for me to get the Echo and the 9632 over say an FF400.

My needs are maybe different though as I still run an old analogue mixer, outboard compression, FX and hardware synths and samplers. If you need the on-the-interface processing for FX and complex mixing you might want something different.

[Timo]

I think PCI is favourable to USB/Firewire if you have a desktop PC only due to having more bandwidth available and being directly addressable. Stands to offer lower latencies and more channels at those lower latencies.

That said, I can run my firewire Motu at the lowest buffer and get away with it, even at 96KHz @ 128 buffer (1.3ms) or more usually 44.1Khz @ 64 buffer (1.5ms), but have not tried it under a greater amount of multi-channel load yet, which is where the real test begins.

[TheHobbit]

Historically I agree with regarding PCI(e) for interfaces/bandwidth however i finally stretched myself to a RME FF800 and do not regret it.
Very clear sound, excllent configuration (especially it using input/outputs for external buses/effects/synths/outboard gear in general).

The nice thing with firewire is being forunate enough to have a macbook pro i can play around with samplers/reason/cubase on the move and hook it up FF800 between the lappy and desktop pc so suits me.

I read loads about audio interfaces and tbh the RMEs are highly spoken of on every forum i visited. Went to the local store to hear it vs motu and echo audio, rme won hands down for me. Loving it ...

Links :

http://www.tweakheadz.com/soundcards_and_audio_interfaces.htm


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/358197-m-audio-profire-vs-rme-fireface-details.html#post3839726





d•.•p

[fgimian]

Historically I agree with regarding PCI(e) for interfaces/bandwidth however i finally stretched myself to a RME FF800 and do not regret it.
Very clear sound, excllent configuration (especially it using input/outputs for external buses/effects/synths/outboard gear in general).

The nice thing with firewire is being forunate enough to have a macbook pro i can play around with samplers/reason/cubase on the move and hook it up FF800 between the lappy and desktop pc so suits me.

I read loads about audio interfaces and tbh the RMEs are highly spoken of on every forum i visited. Went to the local store to hear it vs motu and echo audio, rme won hands down for me. Loving it ...

Links :

http://www.tweakheadz.com/soundcards_and_audio_interfaces.htm


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/358197-m-audio-profire-vs-rme-fireface-details.html#post3839726





d•.•p

What sort of latency can you achieve with the RME? :)

[TheHobbit]

Ah latency well that really depends on your PC rig...

On the Pentium 4 desktop my latency is as : 3ms / although run at 5ms

On the I7 rig it is approx 2

All depends on what buffer sample setting you are set to...

Higher buffer setting (ie 1024 = higher latency/longer time) but handle more plugins/sounds/audio streams

Lower buffer ie 128 = lower latency and less plugin/sounds/channels streaming simultaneously

Do a search (I know you been looking) there is loads out there.

On DPC Latency checker I am getting approx 213us (2ms) on 512sample buffer.

Guess it depoends on how many instances of audio your are intending to record at once and your cpu overhead when running plugins and the like.

If youare doin many audio streams it has Firewire 800 or 400 - 800speed provides more bandwidth so more audio streams at once with lower latency settings.

(Im not a pro - so if I am wrong sure others will nip in with an ammendment).

@_@ Of course you have to add the whole routing which can double so a 3ms latency will actually be 6-8 depending on processor latency/midi interface/cbaling/routing and any other hardware/proesses the signal goes through before reaching it destination!? :)

[fgimian]

Ah latency well that really depends on your PC rig...

On the Pentium 4 desktop my latency is as : 3ms / although run at 5ms

On the I7 rig it is approx 2

All depends on what buffer sample setting you are set to...

Higher buffer setting (ie 1024 = higher latency/longer time) but handle more plugins/sounds/audio streams

Lower buffer ie 128 = lower latency and less plugin/sounds/channels streaming simultaneously

Do a search (I know you been looking) there is loads out there.

On DPC Latency checker I am getting approx 213us (2ms) on 512sample buffer.

Guess it depoends on how many instances of audio your are intending to record at once and your cpu overhead when running plugins and the like.

If youare doin many audio streams it has Firewire 800 or 400 - 800speed provides more bandwidth so more audio streams at once with lower latency settings.

(Im not a pro - so if I am wrong sure others will nip in with an ammendment).

@_@ Of course you have to add the whole routing which can double so a 3ms latency will actually be 6-8 depending on processor latency/midi interface/cbaling/routing and any other hardware/proesses the signal goes through before reaching it destination!? :)

Very impressive figures mate, I'm generally running at 6ms with my Layla3G and never have any issues, it can go down to 3ms but gets less stable on bigger projects.

[absynth]

rme fireface400 and everything is good ;-)

[feedingear]

Bit the bullet and got a MOTU Ultralite MKIII off ebay for 800 AUD almost new. Thanks for all your help and information.

Exciting times! Now I have to put my Tascam US 144 up for sale :D.

[MKUltra]

someone on another forum recommended an RME expresscard PCI bus with one of their external interfaces
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdspe_expressc ard.php (http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdspe_expresscard.php)
I havnt checked the price yet but was also considering a few different firewire interfaces

but I need it for a Macbook pro

[Timo]

ExpressCard is good. I believe it's a much more tightly integrated path with the CPU and motherboard than USB/Firewire.

Guess you can't use expresscard soundcards with a desktop, though? Potentially limits its flexibility. I guess you can buy breakout boxes for PCI expresscard though.

[synthfiend]

Same price as FF400 but supposed to have similar latency as PCi on decently speced PC. It is USB. Apparently you can get lower latency than FireWire because FireWire has built in latency.