Help, need suggestion for a sequencer!

[jdmmade]

Hey guys, I am looking at investing some money into an awesome sequencer.... The part that really made me interested is the endless creation so I want to resort to nice software for sequencing in terms of quality drum samples and really nice effects and features, for the drum part I want something that sounds likes what John Digweed, or Hernan Cattaneo use. I have been looking at a few, for instance Cubase 5, Sonar, Ableton and all these nice pieces of software. I need something with superior drum samples that reflect off of todays electronic music and contain superior effects. I have a Virus TI 2, and a computer with 2.8 ghz dual core with 4 GB of memory with Windows 7, I also have a macbook too. Thanks much appreciated!:p

[Hollowcell]

Sounds to me you're looking for 3 things; a sequencer, a sampler and some good drum sample CDs.

[synthfiend]

Most sequencers do the job, big ones are Logic Studio for Mac and Cubase for PC. Live also very good.
I am also looking to purchase a sequencer, Cubase on the PC seems like the logical choice, you get way more bang for buck with a PC that a Mac.

As for making good drums, a lot of producers use good clean fat audio samples and just paste them onto the audio track, apparently more tight and predicable than using MIDI sequencers with a drum sampler or drum instrument in VST format.

[Hollowcell]

Most sequencers do the job, big ones are Logic Studio for Mac and Cubase for PC. Live also very good.
I am also looking to purchase a sequencer, Cubase on the PC seems like the logical choice, you get way more bang for buck with a PC that a Mac.

Yep, Cubase is great, and as I have been a user for around the 10 year mark, I can tell you it's really good for the things it does well, but.....
I have made the switch to Live and I won't be heading back to Cubase any time soon (except for mixing and mastering). Live is just so much damn fun to get tracks happening - specially once you have the APC - and it's so hands on it's insane!


As for making good drums, a lot of producers use good clean fat audio samples and just paste them onto the audio track, apparently more tight and predicable than using MIDI sequencers with a drum sampler or drum instrument in VST format.

I have never heard of anyone doing this for drums - talk about taking the 'music' out of 'making music', but each to their own though I guess. What genre are people doing this for?
I just can't imagine anyone stepping through whole drum patterns these days really.

[feedingear]

I attended a dnb lecture from Shockone the other day - he uses only audio samples in Cubase 5 to write his drum tracks and not midi/step. Hearing the results you can hear why - I normally would use a drum sampler/vst like Battery or Groove Agent but I am trying the older method with audio samples and I think it sounds a lot fatter.

Note this doesnt mean breaks or loops - you would use individual kick drums, snares, hats, + overlapping breaks etc - and control it all by grouping.

Being able to control clip volumes you can still program quite intuitively and dynamically.

That said - for writing its easier to fire in a quick midi pattern instead of dragging clips into place.

[feedingear]

If your interested - heres a short sample of me doing only audio sample work for drum programming in Cubase 5 - its pretty basic and just started. The two filtered breaks in there are also audio that i have recorded and layered/exported and then reprocessed.


http://www.failsource.com/Uploads/feedingear%20dub%20audio%20example.mp3

[Hollowcell]

Interesting...

The way I do it still means that I get multiple audio tracks all with the separate tracks for kicks, snare groups, and high end, but I can play them relatively live (depending on the number of tracks of course). I make sample layers on the MPC and EMU all going to their own outputs, and then while playing live off the pads off the mpc or/and the pads from my HPD they are being recorded into the PC to audio (on their own tracks) - never quantizing. I just can't imagine not playing the drums and just copy'n'pasting every single hit. Doing it this way means I can have people jam with me too which is damn fun.

I guess technically (in the above paragraph) I am skipping midi sequencing too by doing this, but that's not always the case as I do sometimes record live bashing onto the MPC sequencer when just getting ideas down.

Guess the cool thing about electronic tunes is there are heaps of different ways to get ideas out there, but fun is the aim of the game for me for sure.

[synthfiend]

I have never heard of anyone doing this for drums - talk about taking the 'music' out of 'making music', but each to their own though I guess. What genre are people doing this for?
I just can't imagine anyone stepping through whole drum patterns these days really.

most of the producers they feature on the Computer Music Masterclasses (they are all on Youtube - pretty good really) seem to use audio samples pasted on audio tracks. Types of music I have seen it used for is Trance and DnB.

I can see what you mean about recording the drums Live, that is a very interesting approach. I think it is way better to do it that way for some types of electronic music. I wish I had the dexterity to do that.

In the end (to me at least) it is all about achieving that syncopated groove that makes you want to shake your ass :p whatever way you go about it.

[Hollowcell]

In the end (to me at least) it is all about achieving that syncopated groove that makes you want to shake your ass :p whatever way you go about it.

Yep exactly. Approaches vary, and that's a damn good when it comes to not only electronica, but all types of music.

So back to the thread...
If you are into chopping and moving slices of audio around, then I would say go for Cubase.
If you are into playing live, recording that to audio and then triggering that audio live again (with a lot of hands-on control), I would say Ableton.

Good luck with the choice!

[feedingear]

Yeah thats it - at the end of the day it was personal preference. I was used to using Logic and wanted a PC to game/do other things on besides music so Cubase was the logical choice. I had used Ableton for a bit but only version 4 or 5 - would like to get the new one and play with that too.

[jdmmade]

A lot of people have been raving so between Ableton and Cubase you guys would say Cubase?

[feedingear]

I would recommend going in to a music store and firing up Ableton for a while and seeing if you enjoy the process of writing with it.

If you have any plans for live solo or duo performance I would go Ableton for sure.

If you like linear sequencing then Cubase is the go.

[Doc Jones]

A lot of people have been raving so between Ableton and Cubase you guys would say Cubase?
A vote for Live here. I used cubase for many years and it is a great program, but once I got my head wrapped around Ableton Live's session view, I could never go back to tradition daws.

[Hollowcell]

A vote for Live here. I used cubase for many years and it is a great program, but once I got my head wrapped around Ableton Live's session view, I could never go back to tradition daws.

Yep, in a nutshell.

[austin_tacious]

Based on your description of what you're trying to do Cubase would be a great tool. Ableton is a good DAW, but it's MIDI is rather limited by comparison. It's super at loops and audio manipulation.

Cubase does come with some sounds, but you'll do well to look to Loopmasters or some other sample libraries. Battery or Komplete from NI has tons of really good sounds to get yougoing in the right direction. Don't just use the stock sounds. Layer and manipulate the samples, process them, etc to get what you need otherwise you'll sound like everyone else, but behind the curve.