is better analog output or usb output?

[FABIO 1973]

Hello,sorry for my bad language......my name is Fabio from Italy :p

i have a problem with the my Virus Ti desktop and Cubase Sx 3 .....i have questions for you

1 ) is better "analog output" or "usb output"? better quality audio ?

2 ) my Virus Ti now is connected with the "analog output" but the sound of arp and seq is not synch with Cubase sx 3.......
thanks help me .....Ciao a tutti :p

[shaneynclan]

in my case they pretty much sound exactly the same.

[maelstrom808]

I may be wrong on this, but I think that the only time you are going to be getting better sound out of the analog outs is when you are running at very high sample rates (96k or higher).

[wildbill]

I may be wrong on this, but I think that the only time you are going to be getting better sound out of the analog outs is when you are running at very high sample rates (96k or higher).


AFAIK, there's no way to change the output rate of the Virus - it's fixed from within the processor.
You can of course change the recording sample rate if you're using a DAW, but that affects at what rate the computer is recording, not the rate that the Virus is outputting.

[The Machine]

i didnt noticed the sound difference

[Yornav]

I posted a thread last month... about quality usb vs analog...
Usb, sow I have heard it streaming 16bit 44.1 or 48khz

The analog D/A convertor is 24bit 192khz
My guess is that with for example a motu were you pick up the analog signal of the virus and then stream it in 24bit and whatever higher samplerate to your pc, there will be a big difference because the D/A convertor of the virus never went to 16bit and lower samplerate in the first place. Wich it does via USB.

I think...

[Yornav]

Of course... If you know how a human ear works and how dance music works vs classic music... and all the theory I did not mention ...

Dance music is not dynamic enouch to use $$$ of gear...

[Roby31]

Dance music is still less compressed that pop music or the "not homemade independent productions" in rock's sub-genres :)

Anyway there's no evidence (and AFAIK, no need for) Access has the TI audio engine to stream data at different sample rates to the USB and the DACs...

[izimizam]

i couldnt hear any difference between the 2 myself but i prefer digital as a rule as i have a noisy roland rack mixer and also some hum via that mixer.I have avoided usb audio though as i think it can lead to problems and not just on the virus ti - many usb audio interfaces are flakey.

[grs]

Its a trade off between
1) USB; no noise and low bitrate
2) ANALOG; Slight noise floor and higher bitrate.
Personally unless I am hitting a sound with massive compression the bitrate issue is a no issue. When I have used High compression on USB sound you can hear the 'zippy' truncation in the quiet parts or tails of sounds.

Consider also:
USB is sample accurate, always in time with project regardless of buffers and samplerate of project.
ANALOG outs are tight but drift a bit let's say plus or minus 3 milliseconds. It also pesents re-routing and delay miss match issues and you have to understand and calibrate your delay setting on the incoming audio.

So for least pain go for USB, and for character go for Analog.

[synthfiend]

I am planning to buy a decent soundcard like the RME Fireface UC and just use the MIDI din connectors and record the analogue outs on the TI into the Fireface.
I believe the sound is much better this way.

[synthfiend]

my theory (albeit it be wrong) is you should be capturing the audio that you can hear (ie. the sound coming out of the analogue outs) not some digital representation of what you should be hearing being written to your harddrive.

i think a good A/D converter is the way to go:cool:

[luddy]

Its a trade off between
1) USB; no noise and low bitrate
2) ANALOG; Slight noise floor and higher bitrate.


I did a test about a month ago where I recorded via S/PDIF and ran the resulting wave files through a program that calculates effective bit depth -- the number of bits that are changing in the audio. Long story short, the S/PDIF output on the Virus appears to me to deliver 24 bit audio. I found the same for the USB output. This in spite of the fact that the Virus appears as a 16-bit audio interface to the OS (when used as a sound card / audio interface).

The docs for the Virus claim that the analog outs are 192KHz/24bits, but I think that's kind of silly on the face of it. I think it's clear that the Virus is not operating internally at 192KHz. The parts themselves -- the actual converter chips -- may have such a capability, but it's hard for me to see how the Virus could be making use of it.

So, from what I'm able to measure, it's probably not true that the USB/SPDIF outputs have any kind of intrinsic disadvantage compared to the analog outs (which are also fine outputs).

-Luddy

[ian]

The reason the TI converters run at 192khz is something called upsampling. It is pretty common in digital hi-fi equipment.

Essentially the DAC is outputting at a higher rate than the audio engine because these creates smoother filtering on the digital to analog conversion which results in better stereo imaging and fullness of the sound.

A sample rate of 192k probably is not that useful in the actual synth engine (though I think 96k is).

Much of the advantage when you go beyond 96khz is simply the filtering for the A/D or D/A conversion. The higher the sample rate the wider the bandwidth for the anti-aliasing filters which allows more accurate impulse response. This is why DSD recording sounds very analog or realistic, with such a high sample rate they have essentially no digital filtering at all.

A friend of mine has a CD player that upsamples to 24/384khz. Although the source quality is limited, it is surprising how much better it sounds just by the upsampling on the output end.

Theoretically, 24/700k would sound pretty much identical in the level of presence and fullness as analog. We still have a long way to go.

[synthfiend]

I guess that explains why the analogue outs sound richer than the USB. That's why I plan to buy a decent a/d converter to record Virus parts

[rdilago@zonnet.nl]

When in VC i change output to Analog (Out 1+2) would this change be only for that patch? Would that change be permanent?
as i don't want to make the change every time a start up.

please give me your experiences and advice.
i noticed clcks and pops on usb output and not on analog, not on every sound
but still to often to my taste. now i intend to use analog outs and mix that with my other gear.

[grs]

To my ears the USB sounds dithered to pretend to be 24bit.
The VC must accomplish this post USB transfer.
I think the analogue is nicer and is actually 24bit 48khz, if you switch your DAW to 44.1 or multiples of then its 44.1.
One test I did had the same sound sent via USB and ANALOGUE and going through harsh mega compression, A sound with a reverb tail. The USB one had that digital break up distortion before silence, the analogue one faded into the noise floor.
But for me that was the only time I saw the USB as lesser.
There was a time also when the VC was young and you could put a bit meter plugin on it and it would say 16bit.