Syncing Arps from Polar to drummers click

[autococ]

I'm pretty sure this can be done but I haven't a clue how. I'm running a Polar TI live and I want to make sure that when I play an arp its locked into our drummers click track. Anyone have an idea how to do this?
Click can't come from the polar btw.
Regardez

Steve

[blairwillis]

What is the source of the drummer's click track?

If it is generated by something like a software sequencer or a hardware drum machine or synth, then the answer is simple. MIDI Clock Sync.

To try and sum it up, you will physically connect the source MIDI output to your Virus MIDI input, and set the Virus to External Clock sync mode in the Config menu.

When everything is hooked up properly, adjusting the tempo of the source device should result in the Virus tempo changing accordingly.

If this doesn't happen, then it may be necessary to set the source so that the MIDI clock signal is being sent to the appropriate MIDI port. For example, I use Ableton Live, and in the MIDI Preferences there are on/off settings for "sync" on each device output, and tend to be Off by default. Most hardware devices (synths and drum machines) tend to output MIDI clock On by default.

[autococ]

Hey thanks for the reply as this was really baffling me. I think I understand you but just to be clear i'll explain exactly what i'm trying to do:

For live purposes we're using a hard disk recorder to play some extra parts (backing tracks) basically because theres not enough limbs to play em. On the HD recorder is also the click track that the drummer plays to which is currently a track of audio. Basically my worry is this: if I hit an arp even slightly out of time its going to sound horrible (practice I know but I also sing and I just know that sometime this will happen). Thus I was trying to find a way to ensure that when I play an arp it would sync dead on the click....ie: not a BPM thing as a know the BPM of each track, but a sync/quantize sort of thing. Know what I mean?

[blairwillis]

OK, this is another thing altogether... outside the realm of MIDI clock sync. I'd imagine the HD recorder is simply playing an audio file (no MIDI information or clock sync). And if in fact you know the exact BPM (and exact means exact, not even a tenth of a BPM off) then you can simply dial in the BPM in the Virus, or edit the patch to the BPM you need so that it is always ready to go when you switch to that patch. If you use the same sound for different BPM'd tracks, then program two nearly identical patches, one in each BPM and switch to the appropriate patch for the appropriate song.

The whole bpm/sync thing is important to me, as I deal with multiple musicians running live loops, and without us all being exactly in tempo sync, we'd quickly drift after the loops repeated a time or two.

This is really the purpose of MIDI clock sync, which is to match the tempo/BPM of multiple sources or multiple musicians. If the BPM of the Virus is equal to the BPM of the backing tracks, then an arpeggiator will play at the proper tempo. It has nothing to do with when a phrase actually starts or stops.

> I was trying to find a way to ensure that when I play an arp it would sync dead on the click.

Getting the arp to start at the correct time is a matter of pressing the keys at the proper moment, and that is up to you and you alone... that's where the musicianship comes in. It's no different then playing with a live musician (without a clock) and having anything happen in "sync." You're either coming in on time or you're not. As far as I know, there's no way to artificially "quantize" your fingers. But as long as you start at the right time and you have exactly matched the BPM, it won't drift out of time.

That said... I imagine you could totally change the situation, and rather than use the hard disk recorder you could play the backing tracks and click track via a MIDI-clocked sequencer, then route your MIDI information through a groove quantizing filter... at that point, why bother playing it manually at all, you could just add the keyboard part to the backing track and it would always play perfectly. ...And that's called "programming yourself out of a gig." ;)

[shenme shenme]

this is not a perfect solution for every occasion, but have you tried the tap tempo feature? If you come in noticeably off, you could fix it with tap tempo. The real solution, however horrible, is to come up with a new method - for instance, a sampler (or a laptop) that can sync the backing tracks, the click track, and your virus all at once.

[Voom]

You could get a SMPTE to MIDI reader & stripe a channel on the HD recorder with SMPTE in sync with the backing tracks. Then read that back with the reader & send the clock to your virus to get the clock in sync.

That doesn't help with your arp triggering but...

If you were using Ableton to playback your tracks, you could program your arp tones into clips that are precisely quantized which you trigger with a MIDI whatever.

Or at that point, sequence the clips and drink a beer since you've successfully programmed yourself out of the gig ;)

[autococ]

Ah thanks for all the input....you really sorted this out in my head. The irony is that I was asking this question in the hope of keeping our show more live as it had been suggested that I put the arps on as backing tracks. Essentially the problem lies in one or two songs that have arps that 'hold' ie: I hit the arp once at the start of the chorus and leave it on. Its just that I know from tracking songs in protools that if the arp isn't bang on it sounds awful. Practice, practice practice eh?
Thanks again anyways!

Steve

[blairwillis]

Sounds like it's clearing up for you, Steve. Since I work a lot with live looping and multiple musicians, I really understand how it can get complex at times and we just need to sort through the possibilities to figure it out.

The best thing you have going for you in the current setup is that you know the BPMs, and therefore you will be able to match that. It's just a matter of matching your "1" to the drummer's "1".

I know what you mean about having a long held arp that needs to start right the first time.... and that's really up to your fingers.

[shenme shenme]

yeah, bang it out close to a thousand times, and you won't even think about it anymore. It's what kraftwerk would do, anyway. ;)

[Analogaddict]

Can't you sync the Virus clock to incoming audio? In that case, route the click to your Polar...

[Analogaddict]

Can't you sync the Virus clock to incoming audio? In that case, just route the click track to the appropriate input on your Polar...

I've tried the live tap tempo method, it's very difficult. Also, you need to "match" your 1st beat with the 1st beat on the track, and that doesn't just happen by itself...

[shenme shenme]

hmmm, i'm not sure exactly what the above porter is suggesting, but I guess you could rewrite your patch as a line-in patch, and then it would be triggered by the clicks in the click track, but this could be very limiting, and no less tricky than learning to play it perfectly. ;)

[autococ]

yea I'd thought about routing the click back into the Polar so it could sync to that but I just haven't had time to try out every option. I've had to settle for the practice, practice, practice option and even at that, one tiny mistake and the whole song falls apart! It makes for a nervous show but i'm going with it for now until I fulfill a few gigs comming up this week. I'll try to see this through in the next few weeks and if the planets align i'll post the configuration on here. TBH I have a few more pressing problems that I hoped someone on here could help me with....posted in new thread.

[miltrez]

I have just started using arps live on the stage. It has been working for me to dial bpm. Its kind of like learning a new way/style of thinking for me, I am getting pretty good with it, especially training my mind to key on the click. My only problem now is the drummer bumping the $&^%%@%# tempo knob and not realizing it....:)