Why does my Indigo2 sound bassier/phatter than my Ti2?

[nowtime]

I am a proud recently new owner of a brand new Ti2 Polar. OMG what an instrument! Such a joy. 8)

The first day I had it I did some side-by-side comparison with my Indigo 2 (with the "Indigo" written in script). All in all the Ti2 seemed brighter and more digital, the Indigo seemed warmer (could have been my imagination).

But then I compared same-named patches and the Indigo versions were bassier, and phatter. Definitley richer low-end. (in fact on some patches I couldn't even get to the lower octaves that the Indigo was set at - maybe I just need to transpose those patches down?). But when comparing within the same octave, there was a big difference in sound.

Anyway, what could account for this? Is the Indigo a phatter beast? Is there something different in the Ti patches - maybe a sub-oscillator or the eq?

I have other priorities, but I would love to do more tests, even though I must soon sell the Indigo :(

Thoughts?

[Timo]

Indigo (1) has no parametric EQ and will ignore EQ settings from Virus C upwards.

I think you may be hearing the differences in patches and features from later models compared to what settings the Indigo can utilise.

[Roby31]

Turn "character intensity" up ("analog boost" in the TI1. always played a major part in how the Virus sounds "compared" to the earlier models, imho)

[Timo]

Indigo has analog boost, I assumed the TI would support this when using the same patch without having to turn it up yourself. Reverse compatibility and all that.

[Roby31]

Eh, I don't know if that's the actual stuff he's describing :) I never experienced the same discrepancy, the only way to check would be analyzing the single patches (and reproducing them at the same volume - i.e. the Indigo must be lowered a bit)

[Barely]

Yes, there is a discrepancy, I have a KB and TI2 here, same patch (my own) and the difference is clearly audible.
It's just like Timo said, boost a little bass and heights, maybe analog boost and there you go.
I can also hear some unwanted distortion in some of the older downloadable patches, looks like you will have to fine-tune your favorites.
The new sounds however, be it preset or selfmade, sound GRRREEAT and don't lack any stomach punch, facemelt, earbleed, kidney stone crumbling or whatever you're after.

[Timo]

Hi Barely, this subject does keep cropping up. Given you mention it, any chance you could perhaps export a patch from KB to TI2 (not the other way around of course) and individually record the KB and TI2 playing the same short MIDI piece (whatever you wish) or somesuch, making sure the levels are similar. Would be really interesting to listen to them and analyse them.

[Barely]

Hi Barely, this subject does keep cropping up. Given you mention it, any chance you could perhaps export a patch from KB to TI2 (not the other way around of course) and individually record the KB and TI2 playing the same short MIDI piece (whatever you wish) or somesuch, making sure the levels are similar. Would be really interesting to listen to them and analyse them.

I thought about that, as well :)
I'll see if I can do this tonight

[Barnelby]

I've been trying to investigate this for a while...

What I've been able to find in the research I have done (and please note I am no expert I am just repeating what I have heard)...The TI2 has different DACs than the previous models...

I remember reading that the DACs in the TI2 are higher quality and therefore more accurate... why that would cause the sound to be more punchy or fat in the older models is beyond me; I suppose that along with a clearer image of the sound more artifacts may be revealed that take it down a notch?

Yeah bring on some sound clips I'm dying to hear the difference...

[marc]

I thought about that, as well :)
I'll see if I can do this tonight

please post some examples, i would like to understand what you mean as well.
best, marc

[Barely]

please post some examples, i would like to understand what you mean as well.
best, marc

I did this in the other thread:
http://infekted.org/virus/showthread.php?t=32814

bottom line is, they sound exactly the same, I only had the TI2 transposed 1 octave down *doh* :)

I'll see if I can find some sounds that were (internally) distorted on the TI2, whereas they were not on the KB.
As I am selling my KB tomorrow, this might be a little hard :)

But as far as I'm concerned, the Virus KB patches sound not a bit thinner on the TI2.
There are some people on vintagesynth and other sites that claim the "old" viruses sound beefier.
I believe they are simply blinded by the fact that they are louder, just as I was ;)

[feedingear]

hmm. possibly the same kind of people who use compressors and get the make up gain structure wrong, and think its "slamming" cause its simply louder. mixing lesson 1: always reference and compare changes at the same volume! :)