Maschine or Akai MPC

[MBTC]

If you could have one or the other, but not both, which would you choose and why?

If you already have one or the other or both, what do you like about it / them and what would you do different?

[oscillator]

I had a MPC500 which was cool at the beginning but going deeper i found it to be very frustrating and limited for what i want.
The biggest problem for me is that it don't have any loop function !!!
If you got a loop you can't use it in a fast way, but you have to record a midi note each time the loop closes !!! The pads are very hard to play, the effects are very limited and the resampling is a struggle. I sold it.

Now i have a Korg PadKontrol with Ableton live, that is a good combination.
Maschine is basically a padkontrol with a software sequencer integrated, so if you are more beat oriented and you don't have any DAW it could be a good choice.
However to me Maschine it's very high priced for what it does, and you have to learn a new software, which is a little time consuming for your workflow.

My advice is if you already use a DAW, buy a pad.

[MBTC]

I use FL on the PC and Logic Pro on the Mac, so I'm currently researching how well it works with those DAWs. When I started looking into it, I figured coming from a software company like NI, the software integration would be ideal, but since I've already read at least one guy that said the FX applied to grooves on Maschine are lost when he drags them into Pro Tools (and the realtime FX were one of the things that appealed to me, so I may need to research that a bit more).

Also, I'm very interested in the Akai Max49 as an overall keyboard controller with Akai pads built in, and more importantly the little touch sliders. Just waiting for the reviews to come in to see how it fares (as far as I know it is not released for another month or so).

[Innovine]

I dislike all the issues and troubles (and indeed, the amazing flexibility and possibilities) that laptops bring, so I have a hardware-only studio with an MPC1000 running jjos 0S2xl. I find this limiting, but in a creative way. It's great to be able to curl up on the sofa with my headphones on and just poke away at the mpc. I don't think I'd ever get the same feel from a laptop and a controller, there's always wires and configurations and plugins and routing and moving a mouse around and clicking on things. That's not playing music in my mind.

[enossified]

Unless you meant the new MPC Renaissance, the first question is whether you want to work computer-free. If so, the MPC is the choice.

[Berni]

I have owned many MPC's including the 2000 xl & 4000 & still own some MPD24 pads but rarely use them. If I was going to buy one or the other right now I would get the Maschine. Despite the new additions to the mpc range I think the whole concept is a bit long in the tooth now & a bit limiting as to what you can do with it. On the plus side though most of them dont need a computer unlike the Maschine. So I guess it's what you want out of it but the Maschine although a little pricey has way more flexibility & scope & if you can wait a while I guarantee the price will come down or just get the smaller version. Just my 2c.

[MBTC]

This would be more of a "fun" gadget for me than anything else. As a former drummer, there's something about the mechanics fo tapping pads that appeals to me, even if all things are obtainable another way... the popularity of Maschine and the fact everyone that has one seems to love it is what got me thinking along this line. Also the fact that the Mikro is so inexpensive. I definately do not want to drop a $1300 for the NPC Renaissance... $350-600 for a curiosity gadget gets my attention.

I definately am not trying to get rid of the computer -- more integration is better for me.

Thanks for all comments so far.

[MBTC]

I ended up getting the Maschine (full model, not the Mikro, because I wanted the extra screens and knobs and the shortcuts to things like groups).

Absolutely no regrets or buyers remorse! This is one piece of kit I'm keeping (and no, you don't have to be a hip hop artist to like it). Love the feel of the pads, different from Akai pads but much better for my needs. This thing will get used a lot and is the first piece of gear I've used that rids me of my desire to play an actual drum set, and I've only spent a small amount of time with it (its very easy to learn, no nonsense, and everything including the software just works). What struck me first about it was that as I play, I seem to get the level of expressiveness I was seeking but never got from my old Akai MPD when I mapped samples to it, or those old school Alesis machines. Maybe it's just the drummer in me that loves it because it fills a functional gap in my percussion needs, but every one who owns one seems to love it, so I recommend it if you have even a passing interest in it.

[oscillator]

Cool, let us know your future experience of songwring inside a DAW, and how Maschine tracks interacts with it. Have fun!

[Berni]

Damn now I really want one...MPD24 for sale, anyone?

[MBTC]

Damn now I really want one...MPD24 for sale, anyone?

I had a MPD16 once upon a time... It was okay for the price, but without something like the software that comes with Maschine and all the drum kits, it was always more work to get it into a useful state than I wanted to mess with. The pads were okay but a little mushy for my taste.

Take your hand and lay it flat on a table -- now tap all your fingers in a fluttering motion, as if you were doing super-fast arp hits. That's how fast these pads will respond to your drum roll attempts :) Plus velocity pick up is great and the knobs feel nicer to work with than my Novation Remote SL.

I saw a review on youtube where some guy prefered the Akai style where you can kind of hold a pad partially down and nudge it a little for the next note, and his complaint was only that the Maschine was going to change the playing style he was used to.... but most folks like it including me.

I'm mostly experimenting with it right now. You know all those drum loops you encounter, yet refuse to put them into your music because it feels too auto-pilot and karoke-like, robbing you of ownership of the track, even though they sound perfect? You won't need them with this... its very quick and intuitive to put together wicked good loops them bounce them down to a .wav file at whatever tempo, and what's better is they are yours - you played them yourself :) A lot of stuff comes together for me with this that just isnt possible using a keyboard with weighted keys (or even one without).

[MBTC]

Cool, let us know your future experience of songwring inside a DAW, and how Maschine tracks interacts with it. Have fun!

I'll write more when I've spent more time with it inside the DAW. The integration so far is fantastic, the Maschine plugin inside the DAW works without a hitch, as does running the standalone Maschine software and accessing plugins (you can use the Maschine as a DAW in other words).

Then you can hit SHIFT-CONTROL on Maschine to toggle between MIDI mode (where it is like any MIDI controller controlling sounds in the DAW), or Maschine software mode where it is your DAW. It's really quite seemless.

I think only the recent FL beta lets you drag and drop your Maschine patterns directly into the DAW, and I want to stay with official release for now. But, supposedly you can drag your work on the Maschine in as an audio clip or MIDI data! I can't emphasize what that does for you in terms of workflow. This is really the future of hardware/software integration. Some folks say they are happy to just compose using Maschine alone! Me I am much more into complex melodies and need a keyboard for that, but my beats and bassline type of work is getting put down with this thing going forward.

[Berni]

Yeah I've been on the fence about the maschine for a while now but heard nothing but good things about it. The Akai pads I have are a pain to work with so I don't use them much but miss putting down beats with them. I also used to be a drummer.
I have been using Traktor for my DJ gigs for about a year & a half now & it is rock solid & reliable. I think the maschine would not only be a useful studio tool but I could also integrate it into my DJ sets...ok I'm sold, ordering one next week. Now if only access could produce something as intuitive & reliable ; )

[MBTC]

Yeah I've been on the fence about the maschine for a while now but heard nothing but good things about it. The Akai pads I have are a pain to work with so I don't use them much but miss putting down beats with them. I also used to be a drummer.
I have been using Traktor for my DJ gigs for about a year & a half now & it is rock solid & reliable. I think the maschine would not only be a useful studio tool but I could also integrate it into my DJ sets...ok I'm sold, ordering one next week. Now if only access could produce something as intuitive & reliable ; )

If you get the full model, try to order from a vendor that includes a free Decksaver cover for it if you can. I ordered from ZZounds and the cover was a free pack-in... they cost about $70 US otherwise, and you will definately want one of these or similar to protect the front, either from dust just sitting in the studio or being banged around when in a bag. Also you'll get a $30 voucher from NI to use toward one of the sample packs, so might as well listen to the demos for them ahead of time and decide which one you want :) Each of them comes with tons of kits, more than the demos would have you believe.

[Berni]

Thanks for the heads up on the Zzsounds deal, the cover will come in handy. Just a waiting game now ; )

[feedingear]

Let us know how you go Berni. A uni friend of mine produces a lot of tech stuff and he loves Maschine - http://www.beatport.com/#/artist/ketracel/150911

[Berni]

Let us know how you go Berni. A uni friend of mine produces a lot of tech stuff and he loves Maschine - http://www.beatport.com/#/artist/ketracel/150911

Hey Matt,
Will do but I'm to cheap to pay for fast shipping so it's coming ground...should get it by next week...4th of July is gonna slow things down here in the states.

[MBTC]

Hey Matt,
Will do but I'm to cheap to pay for fast shipping so it's coming ground...should get it by next week...4th of July is gonna slow things down here in the states.

If you want a teaser to keep you busy while you're waiting and have an iOS device, download the iMaschine app. Not quite like the real deal but might get you through the holiday week :)

http://www.native-instruments.com/#/products/producer/imaschine/

[Berni]

If you want a teaser to keep you busy while you're waiting and have an iOS device, download the iMaschine app. Not quite like the real deal but might get you through the holiday week :)

http://www.native-instruments.com/#/products/producer/imaschine/

yeah been playing with this for a while on my iPhone ; )

[FSTZ]

yeah.. this thread makes me want to go buy Maschine

I am a fan of the iPad app but I would love the hardware and the decksaver to boot.. I have them for most of my gear, except my TI polar

[MBTC]

yeah.. this thread makes me want to go buy Maschine

I am a fan of the iPad app but I would love the hardware and the decksaver to boot.. I have them for most of my gear, except my TI polar

I will probably sound like a shill by saying this, but at the price point these go for, it's hard not to recommend them unconditionally. Honestly if the Virus TI2 and the more compact Snow were $600 and $350 like Maschine, I would own several of the things; the price point makes a world of difference. Not to imply the Maschine is ever going to replace anyone's Virus or other synths of course, but the price point of the Mikro isn't much more than a good VST.

I am mostly a software workflow guy, and although sampling, sample editing, slicing etc is plenty easy enough in software, there is something about doing it on Maschine that I prefer. Maybe it's because my intro to sampling was a Roland S10 back in the 80s, where everything was done on a relatively small LCD and the associated limits of that board? I still have only played with a small amount of what it has to offer. It is simple yet deep.

[Berni]

Goddam it! NI have just knocked $200 off the price of Maschine till the end of August! Bloody typical, I should have took my own advice & waited a bit longer. Oh well still looking forward to getting my hands on this.

[MBTC]

Look at ZZounds low price guarantee, if you find it cheaper within 30 days they refund the difference. Just ask them for your check for $200 :)

And yes, getting this thing plus the decksaver for only $400 is an UNBELIEVABLE deal. Even better when it comes at you as an after the sale surprise.. lol

[Berni]

Yup they are gonna refund me the $200. A really good deal right now for anyone looking to get one of these...mine comes tomorrow :)

[Berni]

Omg!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MBTC]

Omg!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mmm hmm. That. :cool:

[Berni]

OK I promise I will start my own thread on this (I feel I have hijacked this one enough) but I thought I would give a quick 'out of the box' review as some people on the forum seem interested.
For $400 US dollars I got the maschine which is made of the same type of plastic that my S4 traktor controller is. Hard, rugged, wont rust & LIGHT, something very important to people like me that hate lugging around bulky, heavy equipment. The pots are nice & the buttons & pads have that nice rubbery feel & light up when you press them...disco floor joy!
You also get a free deck saver perspex cover if you get it from Zzsounds which not only looks cool but is very useful. It also comes with the maschine software & samples DVD & komplete elements DVD all of which had the current versions of the software on them, no messing around on the net trying to find the 'current working version' on a web site. Between them there are 10+Gb of samples on them! Worth the asking price alone. There is also a printed set up guide & USB cable so no excuses that it's the usb cable that might be the problem with the software ; )
Obviously the installation took a while but I dont mind waiting around for new sounds & went without a hitch. Registered it with the service centre & I was up & running. The first time I ran the software it was smart enough to go through all the plug ins on my system & add them to its data base so this also took a while (got a LOT of plug ins) But when it was done I went right to the many preset tracks & had a good mess around...total joy! Everything just worked right out of the box. Didn't have to email tech support once, buy a USB card, hub or cable or configure my computer in any way...access could learn a LOT from there Berlin counterparts.
The weekends are always busy for me but I will post more on the integration side of things when I have some time next week....so far it is looking good & already I am loving this thing. It is soooooo much fun! Big thanks to MBTC for the heads up, got to be the best $400 I have ever spent...really good value for the $ :)

[MBTC]

Glad to hear you're happy with the purchase (though I though you would be) :)

Also looking forward to hearing how you're using it. Me, I've been really busy with work the past few days so I keep trying to carve out a couple of hours of entertainment time to play around with it and learn some things. I learned the two or three things I wanted to know most with it in the first half hour or so, but I really want to watch some how-to vids and see what all can be done with it.

[MBTC]

Had some free time today to play around, and wanted to post a tip I will probably use a lot with this thing. Although it's not a technical revelation (will probably sound trivial), it can have a nice effect on the realism of percussive sounds. Sometimes in electronic music you don't really want realistic drums or expressiveness, repetitiveness is a good thing on the dance floor, but if you do like the occasional sound of actual drums this is a cool feature.

Once you've got the basics of recording/sequencing things the way you want it (to some that might be step sequencing, to some regular linear patterns), take some sound you like, maybe a tom drum or a snare depending on what you're doing with the beat, and go into pad mode (this is where one sample is mapped across all pads). Remember Maschine lets you do what you want to each sound to each pad in each group!

Now, add slight variations to pitch, decay, release etc across the different pads, but all using the same sound, but do it in some logical way. For example, top row left to right could be a slightly higher pitch than the vertical row beneath, where decay or release opens up slightly horizontally from left to right. It doesn't even have to be that organized, you can just go nuts and add random variations! But if you have specific "realism" goals or want to mimick how actual drums behave as you hit them more in the center versus the edge, you can do that too.

All of this could be done without Maschine, but would you? Part of it is the interaction with the controller itself and the way the software is laid out that is conducive to this. Any DAW would let you map sounds to different keys on a MIDI keyboard, but taking time to do so is a pain, remembering what is what is a pain, and the worst part is that playing them would not feel intuitive or musical like real drums. The usability of Maschine makes all this a two minute job, and the cumulative effect when you play with your fingers can easily be something that truly sounds like an acoustic drum set.

BTW, it's also perfect for doing Skrillex-sounding dubstep stuff if that's you're thing. That's not my musical goal but it's definately fun to do sometimes with this thing!

[FSTZ]

that's sick news!

I am so screwed for cash flow right now after my recent iPad purchase.

I'm afraid the missus wont let me purchase any hardware for a bit.

[Berni]

That sucks, there are some amazing deals from NI till the end of the month. I also updated my Komplete 4 to Komplete 8 for only $114! A no brainer at that price as all the instruments/samplers are now totally integrated with the Maschine. 12 dvd's of software/samples! Took me all evening to load it all on but was well worth it.
After messing around with the Maschine for only a few hours I knew I would never use my MPC pads again so I sold them on ebay for just over $100. So for around $400 I now have the Maschine & around 140gb of software & samples! I also got an e voucher for $30 to spend in there online store a free upgrade for the abbey road drum studio & a free copy of 'retro machines Mk2'. All for less than half the price of a virus snow.
RIP MPC...RIP Virus.

[oscillator]

NI endorser? ;)

Seriously... MPC is a little out of date, but a used Virus is a must for anyone wants to tweak good hardware without going into 'screened red eyes'.

After 1 year and a half with my Virus C i feel there is a lot to learn & to do.

Don't do battles... :)

[TweakHead]

Yes, same here... More a less a year now with a Virus C and I feel we've become friends for life! The Machine really looks interesting though, would love to get my hands on one of those! And the new Komplete Pack is awsome! Old classic workstations like Yamaha's Motif or the like feel totally outdated by that, as well... So yeah, Native Instruments rocks!

But the reason I'm posting here is to ask what kind of integration you have on the instruments like Massive, Absynth, etc... Is it only sample based? Or does it allow you to use the full instrument inside? And what about the stand alone? Does it work to?

Cheers to you guys!

[MBTC]

But the reason I'm posting here is to ask what kind of integration you have on the instruments like Massive, Absynth, etc... Is it only sample based? Or does it allow you to use the full instrument inside? And what about the stand alone? Does it work to?


The Maschine software works pretty much the same in standalone and plugin mode, as far as I've been able to determine.

But the software let's you specify your plugin folder, which it then scans and integrates like any other DAW.

Because I already own Massive, it shows up in the browser (i.e. tightly integrated with Maschine) and I suspect other NI plugins do...but yes you can just use that synth to be played with the pads and knobs, doing everything with the synth you could do any other way. Massive parameters are automatically mapped to Maschine knobs depending on mode. I have not yet seen my non-NI plugins show up inside of the Maschine software, but I'm not sure if that's a limitation or just somewhere I haven't been yet. I'm going to say it's a limitation, because the whole purpose of the Maschine browser is to help organize and categorize the enormous library of sounds. So, if you did want to use a different synth there are a number of things you can do. First, you can just set the Maschine to MIDI mode and use it within the DAW the way you would a keyboard (very easy to switch in and out of MIDI mode). Or, what I suspect is popular these days, you can use the synth plugin to generate the sound from the synth, then sample it directly into Maschine and cut it up and mangle it there.

I do now have a craving to buy Komplete to get all of the other stuff, just because of the integration with the Maschine. Maybe Battery too. That's whats great about the NI stuff, it does justice to the term "total integration" without calling it such.

But, the current sales on Komplete are mostly only of benefit to upgraders of prior versions, so I'm gonna hold out for a steal on a first time purchase.

In the meantime, these sales on Maschine are incredible, $400 for the full unit or $250 for the Mikro! With only $150 difference between the two, if at all possible I say get the full unit, because I do use the extra knobs and buttons, and without them you'll need to take the long way around to do some things.

One of the more amazing features to me is to be able to quickly create a drum loop or groove, then just drag and drop that with the mouse into the DAW as an audio clip! Over the top good stuff.

[Berni]

NI endorser? ;)

Seriously... MPC is a little out of date, but a used Virus is a must for anyone wants to tweak good hardware without going into 'screened red eyes'.

After 1 year and a half with my Virus C i feel there is a lot to learn & to do.

Don't do battles... :)

No not at all & NI have had there share of putting out crappy hard/software but I really think they have got there act together these past few years. Of course I would never sell my virus...it would leave a big hole in my rack ; ) but having had all the hassle of it not working properly all these years with no end in sight has tainted it a little for me & the latest bug ridden OS is really doing nothing to help its reputation. You have a C so this doesn't bother you so much. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are so many alternatives out there at a fraction of the cost of even the cheapest virus it's hard to see much future for the synth.

[TweakHead]

One of these things along with the Komplete Pack... Pretty much blows every workstation and sampler out of the water... I had no idea this had evolved to this point! So for instance, when you load Massive in there, you have access to the whole plug-in even on stand alone? What I mean is, would it be usable in a Live setup without charging the laptop's cpu? Using plug-ins entirely on the Maschine's DSP engine, I mean... And how many of the expansion packs and samples can u load to its inner memory?

Thanks!

[Berni]

Yes, same here... More a less a year now with a Virus C and I feel we've become friends for life! The Machine really looks interesting though, would love to get my hands on one of those! And the new Komplete Pack is awsome! Old classic workstations like Yamaha's Motif or the like feel totally outdated by that, as well... So yeah, Native Instruments rocks!

But the reason I'm posting here is to ask what kind of integration you have on the instruments like Massive, Absynth, etc... Is it only sample based? Or does it allow you to use the full instrument inside? And what about the stand alone? Does it work to?

Cheers to you guys!

As MBTC says in standalone you can use the plugins just like in any other DAW. Just click on the track the plugin is on & its GUI comes up & all the basic 'tweaking' parameters for the patch, fx or whatever are mapped to the maschine so you can just use that or go in deeper if you need. It also works very well with my midi keyboard. Just press a pad with the sample/instrument on it & the keyboard is mapped so you are not restricted to just playing things with the pads. It's really fun using both together ; ) I think all the half price deals finish at the end of the month so dont sleep.

[MBTC]

One of these things along with the Komplete Pack... Pretty much blows every workstation and sampler out of the water... I had no idea this had evolved to this point! So for instance, when you load Massive in there, you have access to the whole plug-in even on stand alone? What I mean is, would it be usable in a Live setup without charging the laptop's cpu? Using plug-ins entirely on the Maschine's DSP engine, I mean... And how many of the expansion packs and samples can u load to its inner memory?


Ok I understand your question better now. Maschine always needs a computer to connect to. There is no DSP, persistent storage, etc on the unit itself. All software is executed on the computer, the Maschine hardware is a control surface that interacts with the Maschine software. If you had only one or the other, you do not have Maschine (I saw a guy once asking if he should buy a Maschine on eBay where the owner did not have the software or license.. luckily others told him no, its probably stolen). Actually without the Maschine software, you can still very easily use it in MIDI mode and it still makes a groove or percussion controller with pads like no other, and it has MIDI ports, but there's no separate power adapter or audio outs so you still need to connect it to a computer even for that.

The official FAQ is here:
http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/maschine/?page=2169

Honestly with Maschine, the hardware and software are inseperable, the way they work together really epitomizes modern integration of musical gear with computers that they amount to much more than the sum of the parts involved, and everything just works.

I hope nobody would let the computer connectivity requirement dissuade their purchase -- when is the last time anyone saw a producer or DJ without a computer around anyway? Once you start using Maschine it all makes more sense. There are some things that you'll enjoy doing on the Maschine itself and some things you'll want to reach for the laptop. Well maybe... Some people like using only Maschine to do everything, and if you want you can really kind of forget that its connected to a computer. That's another major benefit -- the usability of the hardware is like a really well designed workstation. You can do what you need just using the knobs and buttons. I actually use a combination of the Maschine controller and the mouse for most of what I do with it.

If they did ever add a DSP, hard drive, memory etc into the unit, I think it would be three times the cost, three times as large and heavy, a third as usuable and flexible they would just be competing in a space dominated by Akai at that point.

[MBTC]

I've been watching some youtube vids since I posted the above message. I didn't realize at the time I wrote it that the MPC Renaissance is really just a $1300 MIDI controller, its not a standalone unit. If anyone really wants a groove box that is designed for mobile / pickup and go / battery operated etc without the need for computer integration, you could look at the BKE Beat Thang... although it seems very hip-hop oriented which is not what I do, separation from the computer is a non-benefit to me, it doesn't have as many pads as Maschine and most importantly I like Maschines integration with other Native Instruments synths and sounds, which are best in the business. The Beat Thang also costs $1000 versus $400 for full Maschine or $250 Mikro.

I guess to each his own but Maschine is still the winner for my music style.

[Berni]

In fact all 3 of the latest MPC's require either a computer or iPad to work, so I guess the days of the stand alone units are gone. Unfortunately Akai do not have a good reputation when it comes to software so I personally would not touch them. Been burnt way to many times by Akai in the past. There are still 2 buttons on my old s6000 that have never worked due to the fact that the software for the machine was never fully developed...& this was there flagship sampler back in the day & dont get me started on there attempt at 'integration' with there Aksys software...probably one of the biggest pieces of crap software I have ever had the misfortune to use...but not the only one ; )

[MBTC]

When I looked into the Renaissance, it seemed like Akai was really demoing the software, without mentioning the fact that the pad controller probably cost more than the laptop it was linked to (guess which of the two was doing the real work)?

I have to admit I'm still eyeballing the Akai Max49 for a keyboard controller -- not that I really need one but I have some specific uses for those touch faders if they are sensitive enough. Half a year ago the Akai pads on it looked like fun too... not so much aince I got Maschine, no more use for any other pads now.... and what you've said about Akai's software history makes me think I should proceed with caution. Some of the tricks like arping from the controller looked good, but now I wonder if everything works as advertised. I don't think they've even released it yet, and they demo'ed it at NAMM last winter? For fucks sake.

[TweakHead]

Yeah, it seems like Maschine was won the battle! Hands down!

Some people said that Access could learn a great deal from the integration on Maschine. I'm just guessing here, but I think it's a lot diferent to have an hardware unit running dedicated software on the computer, or having it appear on the computer but run from the hardware's own dsp engine. For one, I like the second example the most - just like I think Universal Audio is awsome. High quality and no cpu strain, you really can't beat that.

The Maschine is diferent... You get the hands on approach, like analogue hardware, but access to a lot of sounds and instruments, everything very thought through and stuff, it's wild... And I don't see anything even remotely similar on the market, they nailed it.

[Berni]

When I looked into the Renaissance, it seemed like Akai was really demoing the software, without mentioning the fact that the pad controller probably cost more than the laptop it was linked to (guess which of the two was doing the real work)?

I have to admit I'm still eyeballing the Akai Max49 for a keyboard controller -- not that I really need one but I have some specific uses for those touch faders if they are sensitive enough. Half a year ago the Akai pads on it looked like fun too... not so much aince I got Maschine, no more use for any other pads now.... and what you've said about Akai's software history makes me think I should proceed with caution. Some of the tricks like arping from the controller looked good, but now I wonder if everything works as advertised. I don't think they've even released it yet, and they demo'ed it at NAMM last winter? For fucks sake.

Yeah Akai are notorious for advertising features that NEVER get implemented. I know I wont get fooled again.

[Berni]

Yeah, it seems like Maschine was won the battle! Hands down!

Some people said that Access could learn a great deal from the integration on Maschine. I'm just guessing here, but I think it's a lot diferent to have an hardware unit running dedicated software on the computer, or having it appear on the computer but run from the hardware's own dsp engine. For one, I like the second example the most - just like I think Universal Audio is awsome. High quality and no cpu strain, you really can't beat that.

The Maschine is diferent... You get the hands on approach, like analogue hardware, but access to a lot of sounds and instruments, everything very thought through and stuff, it's wild... And I don't see anything even remotely similar on the market, they nailed it.

For sure & funnily enough out of the hundreds of plug-ins on my system the only one that brings it to its knee's, crashes & puts more of a strain on it than all the others is the one that uses the synths own DSP engine. I think you know the one I am talking about ; )

[MBTC]

Some people said that Access could learn a great deal from the integration on Maschine. I'm just guessing here, but I think it's a lot diferent to have an hardware unit running dedicated software on the computer, or having it appear on the computer but run from the hardware's own dsp engine.

It is a different scenario from a tech standpoint -- Maschine uses the CPU and other resources of the PC it's connected to. Virus has an additional challenge here, which is sending audio data across the wire and back into the DAW. Most folks would agree this in itself is a latency prone process (sending any audio back to the DAW that is), but there is just always this laundry list of unexplained mysteries lingering about the Virus, and it seems to me Access has never really stepped up to the task of answering them... like if the speeds allowed by USB cannot handle moving audio back and forth reliably and without all sorts of issues, why attempt it at all? Why is the full speed of USB 2.0 not even realized. Will it ever be or is there some insurmountable hurdle here? Why the exhorbantly high cost of the hardware when the software largely doesn't work, and the board itself actually offers very little that a high-end VST combined with a good MIDI controller and audio interface can't match or exceed? Why do people fear the OS releases, afraid the new version will be buggier than the one they are currently running? Why can't Access partner with DAW vendors and get everything working solidly? What's next on the horizon for Access and why show up at something like Namm just to announce a couple of software features like a new filter or two?

The mysteries that lie within never end.

In my opinion the closest they have come to something like Maschine was the Powercore setups. Why did that seemingly go nowhere (see above regarding pricetag)? Writing a plugin for a proprietary DSP that allows the customer to scale is a great idea, but follow up on it, grow the idea, don't just put a product out and let it rot.

We can only speculate about some of the answers, but most would say that Access is simply riding on the reputation of the Virus, which originally was a smoking hot piece of VA gear that came out at a time when pure software solutions were really no match for it. Times have changed, so a lot of people are frustrated to see these $3000 pricetags on a synth that's offering the sound of $99 plugin.

Why doesn't Access just offer a pure software version of the Virus, charge $500 or something just as an inflated opportunity to cash in on the halo effect? Well surely it would get pirated into oblivion, so I'm not sure we can blame them here.

In some ways Maschine is sort of an anti-piracy dongle that provides tremendous value as a synchronized controller. I don't see why Access couldn't do something like this. It would be nice to see them do another Powercore-like add-in card that had it's own powerful DSP, but I don't think they will because so many folks are producing on their laptop these days, so that market has narrowed.

I do believe they will have to do something to keep the Virus going, and I have to admit I'm excited to see what that might be. Does Thunderbolt provide the performance they need to really get the Total Integration stuff working?

But, as a standalone synth or live instrument, it still has a lot of value and enormous respect for the brand. Whether it survives the times or just becomes another vintage synth, remains to be seen.

[FSTZ]

ahhh... and this is the reason for the big sale!

http://cdn.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/native-instruments-maschine-mkii-640x489.jpg

[MBTC]

ahhh... and this is the reason for the big sale!


It's always that way with sales, but no regrets here -- color coded pads are nice, but I doubt I'd invest time to use them logically. They probably have more appeal if you use the system in front of others / at a club. And if I really needed them, I'd still say pick up a full 1st gen Maschine for $400 then buy a Mikro with the money you saved plus fifty bucks, getting two of them then you can do the Jeremy Ellis thing :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtXHghVH1d4

I'm just concerned that they will bundle a free, white Jeremy Ellis suit with each purchase, without a t-shirt alternative option.

[Berni]

You always know when NI sell stuff off cheap they are getting ready to put out the next thing they have lined up. The next Komplete line up will be announced shortly ; ) I think the major selling point is it comes with Massive but I already have that & I'm not sure about the multi coloured pads, makes it look a bit like something fisher price would make, Lol. I do like the back lit white buttons though as I'm struggling to read mine in low light/gig situations & the new screens look easier to read but I dont think I would give another $300 for those minor improvements. Of course if I didn't already own one I would definitely be getting this but I'm quite happy with the old one. I wonder if the new software will be compatible with the older version?

[Timo]

ahhh... and this is the reason for the big sale!

http://cdn.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/native-instruments-maschine-mkii-640x489.jpg

Who needs a lighting rig for 70's disco night if you have one o' those?

[MBTC]

I think the major selling point is it comes with Massive but I already have that & I'm not sure about the multi coloured pads, makes it look a bit like something fisher price would make, Lol.

From the website it sounds like the 1.8 software update will give Massive to all Maschine users -- quite a good deal for those who didn't already have it, especially for those who bought the first gen at the big discount prices.

For the colors, I do think it would be nice to have the ability to assign all pads of a type to a certain color, but I'm not sure I'd go to the trouble of really using it... and if I were buying right now I'd buy the 1st gen at a discount again, because the ability to assign colors is not going to be worth another $270 added to the $400 price of the first-gen.

[Berni]

Who needs a lighting rig for 70's disco night if you have one o' those?

Me, there is no mirror ball!

Now they are bundling it with Massive, even @ 699$ they are going to kill everyone. As I said in an earlier post RIP MPC, RIP Virus. Totally out classed & out programmed.
Who in there right mind would spend $1300+ on the cheapest virus the snow when they could get this for almost HALF the price?
With this thing you can make music right out of the box...try doing that with a virus...you are also going to have to spend a lot more money & time before you get anywhere near. As long as you have a decent computer, and lets face it, its #1 in any producer's kit, you can create a track from start to finish with this thing without any DAW. It is the future...sampling & synthesis & DAW combined with cool hardware. Someday all......ahhhh schucks the last bit was far too corny ; )
Anyone who has Massive & Mashine knows what I'm talking about when I say 'Rise of the Mashines'

[oscillator]

ahhh... and this is the reason for the big sale!


The pads are not for 'looking good for the audience' purposes.
Unfortunately for all discounted and previuous Maschine owners they are logically-visually assigned to banks!!!! So you know what banks you're playing with.

As i said earlier this thread smells like endorsers spirit, cause no one on planet earth would be so crazy to defend a software superiority against hardware synths like the Virus, come on!!!

[MBTC]

The pads are not for 'looking good for the audience' purposes.
Unfortunately for all discounted and previuous Maschine owners they are logically-visually assigned to banks!!!! So you know what banks you're playing with.

As i said earlier this thread smells like endorsers spirit, cause no one on planet earth would be so crazy to defend a software superiority against hardware synths like the Virus, come on!!!

I don't see the Maschine as a replacement for a Virus, but Berni's comments about the overall bang for the buck as an instrument (for two different purposes of course) of the Maschine versus the Virus are on track, because the difference is amazing. Anyone who does not realize this has not had their hands on both.

I use Maschine as a percussion instrument, groove machine, sampler and "aggression outlet" (lol). It satisfies an intrinsic need of mine to play drums, yet as a device it is capable of so much more. It *is* a hardware device as as a Virus is, the entire experience, even with NI synths like Massive, is so tightly integrated that the differences between what it offers and advantages of any hard solution like Virus (not picking on Virus specificially but any digital VA synth), even with a DSP residing in the same physical box as the knobs, are purely fictitious. Get your hands on one and you'll see what I mean. Is it a piece of hardware someone who doesn't want a connection to the PC should get? Not at all. But I do think absense of a PC connected to instruments is becoming an increasingly rare thing.

[Berni]

I don't see the Maschine as a replacement for a Virus, but Berni's comments about the overall bang for the buck as an instrument (for two different purposes of course) of the Maschine versus the Virus are on track, because the difference is amazing. Anyone who does not realize this has not had their hands on both.

I use Maschine as a percussion instrument, groove machine, sampler and "aggression outlet" (lol). It satisfies an intrinsic need of mine to play drums, yet as a device it is capable of so much more. It *is* a hardware device as as a Virus is, the entire experience, even with NI synths like Massive, is so tightly integrated that the differences between what it offers and advantages of any hard solution like Virus (not picking on Virus specificially but any digital VA synth), even with a DSP residing in the same physical box as the knobs, are purely fictitious. Get your hands on one and you'll see what I mean. Is it a piece of hardware someone who doesn't want a connection to the PC should get? Not at all. But I do think absense of a PC connected to instruments is becoming an increasingly rare thing.

Agreed & I'm not sure how anyone can have any kind of perspective on something they have never had any experience with...what are these 'banks'? My Maschine doesn't have 'banks'.
Unless you are a total purist running your analog outs to an analog board & recording on a reel to reel then you probably use a computer & DAW to record your virus so WTF. The Maschine is way more hands on than any Virus & I find myself using the mouse very little. Dont knock it till you've tried it as the saying goes...it is the future. There is just no way hardware manufacturers like access can justify the price tag of there products any more.

[TweakHead]

Times have changed, so a lot of people are frustrated to see these $3000 pricetags on a synth that's offering the sound of $99 plugin.



Well, agree on the most part of your post... But I wouldn't say this, not in this lifetime. I own a Virus C and still haven't found a VST that sounds nearly as good. And I don't even have integration of any kind for this. I'm still thinking of getting one TI whenever I can, mainly because I find the new features quite interesting, even without considering the integration - which is what most people refer to as an advantage when upgrading to the ti line. Yeah, it must be great when it works flawlessly - and some people I know say it does on their system. I find the Virus one of those synths that rewards the time you put up with it, it takes some programming to get the real juicy sounds out of it. But it's been a year now, and I'm still crazy about it, really! Just the FM leads alone, along with the super warm sounding filters would make me happy! The only VST I find even remotely similar in therms of options and sound quality is Diversion from Dmitry Sches, and it's still a pc only thing, and I'm running a mac, but was totally blown away by that one...

And yeah, I love Native Instruments's instruments (how funny eheh), and I'll probably get me one of those Maschines to... Would be great to have so many options at hands and such a streamlined interface, no doubt. But as I see it, they serve quite different tasks... I'm mostly a synth guy, I enjoy getting lost in knob action...

Cheers

[oscillator]

The future? Maybe, but not now lol.
You're right and it's easy to say i don't have it so i can't judge it, but i'm not a purist of any kind, just think all thoughts about 'this is the future' 'this is is the past' are a little annoying, and don't consider a simple factor: creativity.

Agree with TweakHead about they serve quite different tasks, and for the VST discourse i would suggest anyone to try to run 16 instances of Massive, then let us know if your computer needs a blood transfusion to live again... ;)

[MBTC]

Agree with TweakHead about they serve quite different tasks, and for the VST discourse i would suggest anyone to try to run 16 instances of Massive, then let us know if your computer needs a blood transfusion to live again... ;)

16 instances of Massive is more than I need, but in terms of voices available that would be roughly equivalent to just as many Viruses. Think of it like this, you could get three PCs that can each comfortably run 6 instances of Massive under the worst of conditions. Run the output from those PCs into a centralized audio interface, such that you've lost one of the latency/timing benefits of VSTs and are now comparing things more fairly with the Virus.

You now have roughly the processing power / sound / voices of 18 Viruses, but you've spent about $3,500 instead of the $57,000 (and impossible technical logistics) it would cost you add 18 Viruses (I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that a single snow is roughly equivalent to an instance of Massive... the Ti2 I once owned could not produce anywhere near as many voices as I can get out of Massive without dropping notes). You are also dealing with the power output, heat, and shelf space of three mid-range PCs instead of 18 Virus units.

[Berni]

The future? Maybe, but not now lol.
You're right and it's easy to say i don't have it so i can't judge it, but i'm not a purist of any kind, just think all thoughts about 'this is the future' 'this is is the past' are a little annoying, and don't consider a simple factor: creativity.

Agree with TweakHead about they serve quite different tasks, and for the VST discourse i would suggest anyone to try to run 16 instances of Massive, then let us know if your computer needs a blood transfusion to live again... ;)
Ever tried to get the virus to play 16 patches in multi mode? 3-4 tops is the best my TI will do before it starts crapping out so again I'm not sure what you are talking about...are you? The whole arguement that the Virus saves on DSP is pretty much a moot point in 2012. Computers are way faster than when the first TI came out & virus control is STILL the biggest computer resource hog than any other plug in on my system.
The virus & the maschine are both musical instruments & both serve the same purpose, they are made to make music. One is going to cost you a lot of money, time & grief to achieve that purpose & the other is the maschine.

[TweakHead]

Ever tried to get the virus to play 16 patches in multi mode? 3-4 tops is the best my TI will do before it starts crapping out so again I'm not sure what you are talking about...are you?

Yeah, I barely even use the multi-mode even... But I guess I'd be using it more with a TI... But that's interesting, are you using unisson and stuff like that? And are you using the first TI or TI2? And is the TI2 worth it, compared?

But getting back on topic. I think the thing is: the virus is pretty handy, mostly the ti line, being able to store patches within the project, editing inside the daw, etc... And it rules at what matters most to me: which is the sound quality and versatility... There's so many sounds you can get out of it, and the filters totally rock!

If you compare it to the Nord Lead, or something like that... The new ones are somewhat similar to my Virus C, and with less functions. So yeah, natural to be picky about it when it costs so much, but I think they have the edge here - even considering the problems. And for sure they have the sound quality!

And again, I really can't say much about the Maschine (even though I'm pretty sure it rocks Big Time), but I can say something about Native Instruments, and they rock to! Just take a look at what Tim Exile is doing with Reaktor, or the influence Massive's had on bass music, or the kind of depth you find in Absynth, etc etc... And those who get the full Komplete pack, they get something better - in my opinion - then any Korg or Yamaha workstation on steroids...

So, to be honest, there's no point discussing which is better or more integrated... The best thing is to have both, as both the virus and native instrument's stuff are high end stuff for musicians...

[Berni]

Yeah, I barely even use the multi-mode even... But I guess I'd be using it more with a TI... But that's interesting, are you using unisson and stuff like that? And are you using the first TI or TI2? And is the TI2 worth it, compared?

But getting back on topic. I think the thing is: the virus is pretty handy, mostly the ti line, being able to store patches within the project, editing inside the daw, etc... And it rules at what matters most to me: which is the sound quality and versatility... There's so many sounds you can get out of it, and the filters totally rock!

If you compare it to the Nord Lead, or something like that... The new ones are somewhat similar to my Virus C, and with less functions. So yeah, natural to be picky about it when it costs so much, but I think they have the edge here - even considering the problems. And for sure they have the sound quality!

And again, I really can't say much about the Maschine (even though I'm pretty sure it rocks Big Time), but I can say something about Native Instruments, and they rock to! Just take a look at what Tim Exile is doing with Reaktor, or the influence Massive's had on bass music, or the kind of depth you find in Absynth, etc etc... And those who get the full Komplete pack, they get something better - in my opinion - then any Korg or Yamaha workstation on steroids...

So, to be honest, there's no point discussing which is better or more integrated... The best thing is to have both, as both the virus and native instrument's stuff are high end stuff for musicians...

I have an original TI Desktop & 3-4 averagely complex patches is its limit. I have had a virus from A onwards & none of them have ever come close to the 16 channel limit. The virus is a killer sounding synth & the only reason I have kept mine despite all the grief it has caused me but it has some serious drawbacks & the cost is a major factor, its just way to expensive for what it is.
I have 2 DAW's, Pro tools & ableton live & VC has never worked reliably enough in either of them for me to use it but it runs like a champ in the Maschine stand alone software! No sync issues, pops, clicks or just plain crashing on me. It works great & I'm not even sure access support the Maschine platform yet so I am very happy with this thing.

[MBTC]

I have 2 DAW's, Pro tools & ableton live & VC has never worked reliably enough in either of them for me to use it but it runs like a champ in the Maschine stand alone software! No sync issues, pops, clicks or just plain crashing on me. It works great & I'm not even sure access support the Maschine platform yet so I am very happy with this thing.

Jeez now you're making me want a Virus to go with my Maschine :) The VC plugin worked well enough for me in FLStudio (wasn't using Logic yet at that time so didn't try it), it was just that the latency and overall impact on the workflow was detrimental. I don't remember crashes and such, just that I was going to dealing with bouncing down a lot if I kept it, sort of defeating the purpose I bought it for (realtime knob tweaking). However as painless as Maschine makes sampling, I might be able to do some cool things if I added a Snow. Polyphony/complexity/CPU of the Virus (which I was woefully unimpressed with and I was using a TI2 desktop) would become less of a sticking point then.

Do you do much sampling from VC into Maschine? I don't think it would really satisfy the need I originally bought the Virus for, but it might be a cool toy (especially if I snagged a used Snow for this purpose for example). Then again, using it like that I'm not sure I'd get much benefit from the Virus versus Massive or any other VST going through Maschine.

[TweakHead]

That's amazing that it works better inside Maschine then it does on the DAWS you own... I'm with logic here, is it better or worse? I mean, for getting the extra oscilators and fx only, without using the VC it would be a whole lot of money down the window, for sure... Do you actually think it's worth it? Considering I have a Virus C? Yeah, no doubt you support my wish to get Maschine, NI should pay you as you've convinced me more then their website...

And while I'm at it, how does it work with Maschine? You sample phrases as you go along? Does it run well in midi? I actually think it must me heaven to work that way... chop chop, stretch, etc, gooooooo... is it like that?

[Timo]

I do admit that price of the Virus has been placed out of the limits of a lot of people, myself included. The Indigo2 (Virus C engine) used to be £1,150 - now its direct successor the Polar TI2 is £1,820 - that's a wallet busting increase, particularly in this economic climate. The same amount could stand to get you a top end computer with dual-quad cores for 16 threads and stacks of RAM.

That said, the TI is a hell of a unique professional sounding synth. I'm really interested to see where the Virus line goes next. Access have seemingly been relaxed in adding updates the last year or so, makes me wonder if there's something else waiting in the wings that is taking up their manpower. :) I just hope they're not resting on their laurels and being content for software VSTs to surpass them.

[Berni]

Jeez now you're making me want a Virus to go with my Maschine :) The VC plugin worked well enough for me in FLStudio (wasn't using Logic yet at that time so didn't try it), it was just that the latency and overall impact on the workflow was detrimental. I don't remember crashes and such, just that I was going to dealing with bouncing down a lot if I kept it, sort of defeating the purpose I bought it for (realtime knob tweaking). However as painless as Maschine makes sampling, I might be able to do some cool things if I added a Snow. Polyphony/complexity/CPU of the Virus (which I was woefully unimpressed with and I was using a TI2 desktop) would become less of a sticking point then.

Do you do much sampling from VC into Maschine? I don't think it would really satisfy the need I originally bought the Virus for, but it might be a cool toy (especially if I snagged a used Snow for this purpose for example). Then again, using it like that I'm not sure I'd get much benefit from the Virus versus Massive or any other VST going through Maschine.

Hey you started it, Lol. If you already have Massive then I dont think you need the virus unless you absolutely have to have the virus sound & the cash to blow, Massive does more than a good enough job. TBH I only got done RTFM tonight so I haven't really got into the sampling side of it so much. I like the fact you can 're-cycle' samples with it though but since I have pro tools & live & Kontakt I dont know if I really need it. Maybe when I get more into using it stand alone who knows, but its there.

[Berni]

That's amazing that it works better inside Maschine then it does on the DAWS you own... I'm with logic here, is it better or worse? I mean, for getting the extra oscilators and fx only, without using the VC it would be a whole lot of money down the window, for sure... Do you actually think it's worth it? Considering I have a Virus C? Yeah, no doubt you support my wish to get Maschine, NI should pay you as you've convinced me more then their website...

And while I'm at it, how does it work with Maschine? You sample phrases as you go along? Does it run well in midi? I actually think it must me heaven to work that way... chop chop, stretch, etc, gooooooo... is it like that?

Yeah those NI mofo's should be getiing one of those new ones coming out next month over to me for free ; ) Plug ins work the same in Maschine as in any other DAW, VST or AU. If your familiar with the MPC pattern based sequencing then this is what it is based on. Build up groups of sounds, create patterns with them then build them into a track.

[Berni]

I do admit that price of the Virus has been placed out of the limits of a lot of people, myself included. The Indigo2 (Virus C engine) used to be £1,150 - now its direct successor the Polar TI2 is £1,820 - that's a wallet busting increase, particularly in this economic climate. The same amount could stand to get you a top end computer with dual-quad cores for 16 threads and stacks of RAM.

That said, the TI is a hell of a unique professional sounding synth. I'm really interested to see where the Virus line goes next. Access have seemingly been relaxed in adding updates the last year or so, makes me wonder if there's something else waiting in the wings that is taking up their manpower. :) I just hope they're not resting on their laurels and being content for software VSTs to surpass them.

Agreed, who has $3000 + to blow on a synth nowadays? And yes access have done very little other than a face lift & a few extra features to the TI range since it came out 7 years ago...including not sorting out there buggy software. The small cash incentive being offered to existing owners to buy a new virus is either a sign of something new on the horizon or they are going out of business. The fact is they are going to have to pull something really special out of the hat to survive in todays market place.

[TweakHead]

Agreed, who has $3000 + to blow on a synth nowadays? And yes access have done very little other than a face lift & a few extra features to the TI range since it came out 7 years ago...including not sorting out there buggy software. The small cash incentive being offered to existing owners to buy a new virus is either a sign of something new on the horizon or they are going out of business. The fact is they are going to have to pull something really special out of the hat to survive in todays market place.

Yeah, and they'd better be up to it right now... I mean, there's a lot of people here who own the previous editions, wouldn't really mind upgrading but even with the incentive, it's still a very long stretch to get there, it's just to much money right now... So it's not like their products don't seduce people anymore, because of plug-ins or whatever, it's the price range... Even the Snow goes for more then a Nord Lead or a couple of Blofelds, or UltraNova, Roland Gaia, MiniBrute, the announced Pulse2, etc, it's not like it's a bargain...

[FSTZ]

From the website it sounds like the 1.8 software update will give Massive to all Maschine users -- quite a good deal for those who didn't already have it, especially for those who bought the first gen at the big discount prices.

I didn't know this was going to happen

I just might buy a second hand Maschine from someone who decided to upgrade.

[Berni]

Maschine 1.8 out now, includes Massive, free for all Maschine owners! Nice ; )

[pixie]

Right now, I think Maschine and a free Massive copy, is the best deal around. But IMO the MPC 1000 with JJ OS firmware is the best piece of kit you can buy to support a virus.
My studio has finally reduced to a minimalist setup.
My Virus KC is hooked to an MPC 1000, a pair of midi cables and audio jacks, and you don't even need a mixer since the output signal runs directly through the MPC.
The MPC brings everything a virus need without turning on a computer:
Solid pattern based sequencing with graphic edition
A real sampler, with editing and record
Huge sample libraries stored on CF
16 PADs to bang the drums, launch sequence, and real time track muting.
What else ?
a handy compression and EQ tool,fx , audio bounce, good audio converters. A drum machine with endless sounds.

And the best thing of all, like someone said a few posts back, is curling up in the sofa making some music and feel like playing a real instrument instead of clicking madly on a grid.
I was an ableton and reason user, and somehow I really enjoyed these softwares. But now I really feel they are history to me. The virus being the real backbone of my sound, I'm going hardware, and not going back.

[pixie]

Right now, I think Maschine and a free Massive copy, is the best deal around. But IMO the MPC 1000 with JJ OS firmware is the best piece of kit you can buy to support a virus.
My studio has finally reduced to a minimalist setup.
My Virus KC is hooked to an MPC 1000, a pair of midi cables and audio jacks, and you don't even need a mixer since the output signal runs directly through the MPC.
The MPC brings everything a virus need without turning on a computer:
Solid pattern based sequencing with graphic edition
A real sampler, with editing and record
Huge sample libraries stored on CF
16 PADs to bang the drums, launch sequence, and real time track muting.
What else ?
a handy compression and EQ tool,fx , audio bounce, good audio converters. A drum machine with endless sounds.

And the best thing of all, like someone said a few posts back, is curling up in the sofa making some music and feel like playing a real instrument instead of clicking madly on a grid.
I was an ableton and reason user, and somehow I really enjoyed these softwares. But now I really feel they are history to me. The virus being the real backbone of my sound, I'm going hardware, and not going back.

[Berni]

Right now, I think Maschine and a free Massive copy, is the best deal around. But IMO the MPC 1000 with JJ OS firmware is the best piece of kit you can buy to support a virus.
My studio has finally reduced to a minimalist setup.
My Virus KC is hooked to an MPC 1000, a pair of midi cables and audio jacks, and you don't even need a mixer since the output signal runs directly through the MPC.
The MPC brings everything a virus need without turning on a computer:
Solid pattern based sequencing with graphic edition
A real sampler, with editing and record
Huge sample libraries stored on CF
16 PADs to bang the drums, launch sequence, and real time track muting.
What else ?
a handy compression and EQ tool,fx , audio bounce, good audio converters. A drum machine with endless sounds.

And the best thing of all, like someone said a few posts back, is curling up in the sofa making some music and feel like playing a real instrument instead of clicking madly on a grid.
I was an ableton and reason user, and somehow I really enjoyed these softwares. But now I really feel they are history to me. The virus being the real backbone of my sound, I'm going hardware, and not going back.

U can curl up on the sofa with an MPC 1000 & a virus KC? Guessing its a damn big couch.
Samplers & synthesizers are not real instruments in the contemporary sense no matter which one u use. Of course anything that makes a sound is an instrument but at what point do u decide its not for me? When u can't get it to make the sound u want I guess. Stick with what your happy with.
The 1000 would not be my first choice of MPC TBH & non of the latest MPC range are stand alone anymore so its a dying breed.
My Maschine & macbook pro fit nicely on my couch ; ) Just have to kick one of the cats off.

[FSTZ]

bagging a Maschine Mikro MK2 this weekend.

now if only I can buy some time to use my gear

[Berni]

bagging a Maschine Mikro MK2 this weekend.

now if only I can buy some time to use my gear

Couldn't resist eh, u wont regret it, best $400 I've spent all year. Also another added bonus with the new software is u can use the transport buttons & knobs to control your DAW so it also makes a great controller.

[FSTZ]

You're right.. I couldn't resist

I have a close friend who also helped influence my decision.

I needed some kind of drum machine / sampler to replace my awesome (yet dated) FXPansion Guru application

the added bonus of NI Massive with the unit was mere icing on the cake.