VST+MIDI Control - is it possible?

[Coax]

Hello, mates! :)

I'm wonder can I connect my TI through midi and analog outputs, but still use VST control plugin?

If I just route the signal to the analog outputs from the VST control plugin the midi data still going through VST anyway and I've got huge delay. Virus midi in/out does not work than virus is connected through usb.

Every time than I need to record audio from my virus I need to disconnect USB.

So, can I make virus midi work than it's connected through usb?


Thanks! :)

[enossified]

Do you have a MIDI interface already? If so, just try it (doh). Virus Control will complain if it can't find your TI.

Are you saying you are getting high latencies with MIDI over TI USB and audio through another interface?

Did latency improve at all compared to running both audio and MIDI over TI USB?

What's your DAW, what's your computer, what's your audio interface, etc.?

Just asking because some (most?) users (like me) use the TI USB connection with no latency problems. That means something in your setup is the issue.

You seem to assume that the delay is the MIDI triggering the TI late. If anything, the MIDI timing over USB should be tighter than using a MIDI interface because the data doesn't have to be serialized over a (slow!) 31KHz link.

[Coax]

Hey, enossified! :) Thank you for reply.

Yep, of course I have MIDI interface. And virus work with no problem if usb disconnected.

Yes, if I select analog outputs in Virus Control I get very high latencies.

If I connect all through usb all sounds great.

My DAW is Cubase 5. Interface MOTU Ultralite MKIII.

QuadCore Intel Core i7-950, 3200 MHz
24GB RAM
Win 7 SP1

[enossified]

Yes, if I select analog outputs in Virus Control I get very high latencies.

If I connect all through usb all sounds great.

My DAW is Cubase 5.

OK, if you only get the high latency when using the analog outs through the MOTU why are you doing that?

Sorry if that sounds stupid :shock:

[Coax]

Sorry, don't understand. What do u mean? Because I need to record audio from virus :) And I get high latency only if I use virus control. If I connect virus through MIDI all sounds great.

[enossified]

You wrote:

If I connect all through usb all sounds great.

Then you wrote:

If I connect virus through MIDI all sounds great.

Do you get high latencies when routing audio over the USB connection (NOT analog to the MOTU)?

[Coax]

Do you get high latencies when routing audio over the USB connection (NOT analog to the MOTU)?
Just like I said - if I conned ALL (virus connected over USB and audio routed to USB output) over USB - I don't have latency.
If I connect virus over USB, but route sound to analog output - I got high lantecy.

[TweakHead]

don't route it through audio, then... seems pretty straight forward... unless you think there's real value on your soundcard's pre amps or something you can't afford to do without for some patches - if that is the case, then you can only bounce it down and either have some latency compensation feature on your daw, that would place the audio track on time, after recording, or adjust by hand... I think the problem here is you need to compromise... but I have a hard time imagining why you can't do without using the audio outputs if everything's sounding great through the usb connection man... just run with it...

other option would be, to make your patch and when satisfied, connect the virus as an external instrument through midi - like you'd have to do if you're using the virus C - make it play the midi and record the audio, I bet latency is better doing that, I mean I'm running such setup here (virus C through midi) and latency is hardly a issue, only when I'm running plenty (and I mean plenty) of tracks on a project...

Hope this helps, let us know

[TweakHead]

(doubled the post... sorry) EDIT

[enossified]

OK, why do you want to use analog outputs instead of USB? That's what I was asking.

In other words, if that works why are you not using it?

Back to your original question: try connecting the Virus MIDI in and out through the MOTU and try selecting the Virus Control VSTi in Cubase's VST Instruments rack. If it cannot detect a Virus attached, then it won't work. It's that simple.

I've looked all over the manuals and the Access forums and there is no discussion of using Virus Control with the MIDI ports instead of USB. My guess is it won't work if there is no USB connection at all.

Other things to check: in Virus Control do you have the Live switch set on or off?

Sorry if I haven't been very helpful :oops:

[Coax]

enossified, well.. I can't even export my project into wave file if I'm not bounce all virus tracks. Because of realtime export cubase error (CPU overload). I search many forums about that and did not find a solution.

And even if realtime export will work correctly I prefer to bounce all tracks and work with wave files. And cubase by a some reason do not compensate virus delay after recording. It's pretty annoying.

Like you said - many people record audio from virus analog outputs using usb connection with no problem.. And I can't understand why I have such a huge latency and cubase not compensate it.

Control VST do not detect virus if it's connected just with midi.

Yep, I try live switch - it's not help :(

You are helpful )) Thank you for support anyway :))

TweakHead , as I already said - I just feel more comfortable than I working with bounced wave files and cubase do not compensate virus delay by a some reason. Fixing delay by hand every time is pritty annoying.

[TweakHead]

yeah, I get what you mean. I always render my tracks down to. But that's besides the point, the usb connection is for control and audio streaming as well. and with that option, even though you'd still have to bounce down in real time, it should be in perfect sync with no delays, as precise as if you're using a vst instrument...

And if you were to use the virus without the usb connection, loosing all the TI capacities and run it through a midi interface and audio cables, you shouldn't get much latency either - I guess it just depends on your audio settings and the kind of setup you're running. If there's no automatic delay compensation, it should at least tell you how many ms of it it's happening. And there must be some option for you to put these value on the audio tracks and be done with, to...

I think you should look into your audio settings, adjust the buffer size, etc. See if you're running with the latest drivers for your soundcard. And try and use the usb all the way to see if there's still sync problems. If not, and if the sound quality isn't inferior to that of recording the audio outputs through the card - which would totally defeat the whole purpose of the ti concept, by the way - I'd be happy with it and use the pre-amps on the sound card for other synths and stuff...

it could also be that you're having the famous lags some people seem to experience when using the ti... folks say it's better with the latest update, I can't comment on that - 'cause like I said, I own a C - but if you haven't you should try it to...

Cheers

[TweakHead]

EDIT did the x2 thing again... sorry

[Coax]

Just notice one strange thing: if I turn off direct monitoring all sound perfect! Even through analog+usb. But then I record audio the record still sounds with delay :( how can it be?

[TweakHead]

my advice would be: disconnect the audio cables and try and make the virus stream sound using the usb for both monitoring and recording...

but it reminded me of something that happened to me a while ago: I was making a sound on the virus and I had an audio channel with input monitoring enabled, and also the direct monitoring on the sound card, so I heard a double, with a touch of "tape-delay-like" something between them... I only noticed when I recorded, and then I doubled the track and added some delay to the second one, to get that sound again...

but back to topic, it's kind of natural for the direct monitoring to come first, that's the reason it's called direct - there's no complex path the sound travels to before reaching the speakers. I really suggest you take a close look at the manual and try and run everything from usb (no audio cables plugged); and see how it goes. I really can't give you any specifics about configuring the virus ti for audio stream using usb or anything like that, 'cause I don't own one. but some people here maybe can assist you on that... but the manual should do it, I guess... After trying all this, I'd just go ahead and contact Access if problems persist...

[Coax]

but back to topic, it's kind of natural for the direct monitoring to come first, that's the reason it's called direct - there's no complex path the sound travels to before reaching the speakers.

Well, yes... And that's why I call it's pretty strange :) All sounds prefect than I turn OFF direct monitoring :) than I turn it on the latency comming back :)

[enossified]

enossified, well.. I can't even export my project into wave file if I'm not bounce all virus tracks. Because of realtime export cubase error (CPU overload).

OK, let's go back a step. If using the Virus Control VST the Virus tracks play in sync then you have a good starting point.

Forget about realtime export for now, let's just bounce the Virus tracks. You need to record the output from the VST into Cubase audio tracks and then you can mute the VST tracks.

Let us know if you don't understand how to do this.

This is one of the most confusing aspects of working with DAWs.

In Cubase you have MIDI tracks, audio tracks and instrument tracks.

Instrument tracks are used for VSTs that have only one audio output. To use Virus Control you should have placed it in the VST Instruments rack and then set up a MIDI track for each Virus part and audio tracks for the available audio outputs (6 in all).

Arm the audio tracks for recording audio from the Virus, hit record and the result should be you'll have audio on those tracks. Then you can do offline rendering of your project.

Good luck.

[Coax]

Tracks play in sync only if USB outputs are selected in virus control. If I want to bounce audio I need to select analog outputs - and from this moment cubase bounce tracks totaly out of sync.

[enossified]

to bounce audio I need to select analog outputs

That is not correct.

1. Open a new audio track, it should be armed for recording after opening.

2. Click on the input bus selector, you should see the Virus USB outputs available in the chooser menu. Select the one you want to use (there are 3 in all).

3. Press record on the transport.

[Coax]

Nope, I don't have USB outputs there. I think they will be there only then using Virus Asio as the main sound driver.

[Coax]

I notice one more strange thing. Actually the record starts BEFORE the midi starts playing 0__o How does it's possible? :)

450

So it's not actually the DELAY, but some kind of opposite thing :))

[enossified]

If USB outs are not available from the Virus then something is configured wrong. It does not have to be the main sound driver to operate as a VSTi.

I'll have to look into this at home when I have a chance.

[Coax]

I'll have to look into this at home when I have a chance.
Thanks. Maybe you take a screenshot of Virus USB outputs in audio track inputs section of your DAW? How it's must look like?

Here is mine:

453

It's just analog inputs of my motu. Here is bus section:

452

No virus outputs available.

[enossified]

Well, I've been talking out my ass. Sorry to get your hopes up.

I went through the process from scratch myself and found there is no way to route the output of a VST into an audio track inside Cubase. This is mind boggling, other DAWs do allow this sort of routing. Reminds me why I stopped using Cubase :sad:

So recording the analog outputs apparently is the only way to do it in Cubase.

Try inserting a blank bar at the top of your project, record the Virus track as audio and then realign the timing by hand. Yeah, that totally sucks.

Sorry again for wasting your time :oops:

[feedingear]

You will need to set up a bus (group or fx channel) first. Create a group channel, route the output of the Virus to the input of the group channel. Create an audio channel, and route the output of the group to the input of the audio channel. Done.

[enossified]

feedingear,

That bussing trick only works in the "full" version of Cubase. In Studio, Artist, Elements, LE and AI it is not available. Coax, which Cubase version are you using?