View Full Version : Namm 2013
Around this time each year I start poking around to see what might be up at NAMM, especially from Access.
Unfortunately this year, it looks like Access is a no-show.. no booth rental listed in their name. There is a booth rented by Access Associates, but that's these guys: http://www.access-associates.net
Its okay though, their Ukuleles would likely integrate with your DAW more reliably :(
Seriously though, this does not bode well for the Virus line at all. Several years now and nothing but disappointments and silly announcements like new filters that softsynths provide right out of the gate.
Sad.
namnibor
19.11.2012, 05:02 AM
Since technology has made communication literally light speed these days, companies of all sorts have a tight lid on what they are working on because Corporate Espionage is a very real threat to remain competitive.
With that said, it may be a really great offensive/defensive strategy for say Access in this case, to perhaps not have a space at NAMM, yet you can bet they send an envoy or two, attending just to see what "cards people have out on table"; new products in this case.
So say Access has something pretty innovative in development and after reviewing other companies' new products they see that another company is doing something similar, it would be advantagous for Access to develope way beyond what's out there or take a whole different direction for sake of fierce competition of target market.
Look what Waldorf did with the Pulse 2 last year! It was a physical prototype without the guts and no sound. They have been putting off release date ever SINCE Arturia MiniBrute was released, with now a Spring of 2013 projected release. Coincidence? Perhaps, but I think not.
I would rather Access or really ANY company release a finished, bug free product rather than spend years in updates making it work with so many different set-ups possible.
Would actually hope Access would go a different direction than continue down the Ti path. Analog is making a come back and would hope in that full circle complete, physical modeling and additive synthesis is re-explored. In fact, I predict that the given example of Arturia, a primarily software company releasing hardware could be the next new trend. Wouldn't it be cool if Izotope released a keyboard sampler hardware version of IRIS? Camel Audio doing same with Alchemy? Not just talking about a midi controller, something that like the Ti is happy on stage or in front of PC. With economies all pretty much in dire flux, would think these would be very precarious times to release new hardware that's truely innovative but yet at an accessable price-point.
My rant is over! The different Virus incarnations currently leave us with the whole universe of sound to explore.
Ashe35
19.11.2012, 05:15 AM
There *is* a booth listed for Kemper GmBh, Access' parent company.
namnibor
19.11.2012, 07:15 AM
There *is* a booth listed for Kemper GmBh, Access' parent company.
Love to learn new things each day! Thanks! http://kempermusic.com/
TweakHead
19.11.2012, 08:02 AM
Access is still the only company doing the integration thing! And besides that, even without the Virus Control plug-in in place, it still has the edge over any (I dare say it) synth on the market today - that offers as much connection with a pc as my good old Virus C, that still sounds better and has more sound design options then most things out there on the VA market even today...
I think the TI was a big and a bit risky step they took, but kind of a game changer for them. And now things are working better and just take a look at the number of extra options you've gained so far. And another thing, tell me one softsynth that does what the virus does - that has similar modulation options, for once, and the number of oscilator options, so forth and so on... If Virus was a plug-in, and only that, it would rule that world. If it was just hardware, same same...
Maybe there are some dificulties with the usb connection, that only gives certain ammount of broadband for communication with computer, maybe even the internal chips could see some change, but it's such a beautifull thing as is, really, that I honestly don't see how they've fucked up so badly as some people say... just my 2 cents!
There *is* a booth listed for Kemper GmBh, Access' parent company.
Aha.. thanks for the clarity. I should have remembered that.
Although, their booth is still very modest in size, so I'm not expecting a new hardware announcement.
Yep, I've just checked, they will be there in 2013 in the same place as they have in former years: http://www.infekted.org/virus/images/announce/Namm2012map.jpg
I would love to see an all new Virus with customisable/designable oscillator waveshapes and LFO waveforms. I think these alone would massively open the gates of sonic possibilities.
Berni
19.11.2012, 07:17 PM
Why even bother, all they did last year was announce a few additions to the software which is STILL in beta. Lame.
And another thing, tell me one softsynth that does what the virus does - that has similar modulation options, for once, and the number of oscilator options, so forth and so on... If Virus was a plug-in, and only that, it would rule that world. If it was just hardware, same same...
I really don't want to get into a debate here on hard vs soft synths. I'm a fan of both... but have you ever looked at the modulation possibilities of something like Zebra? There are lots softsynths out there that let you literally modulate anything via anything, especially ones with modular or semi modular architectures. When I had my Virus Ti2, the possibilities VC afforded at that time (2009 I think?) were not even close to the versatility of Zebra, though admittedly I have not had my hands on VC recently.
Why even bother, all they did last year was announce a few additions to the software which is STILL in beta. Lame.
I'm actually a little nervous about Access. When other hardware and software companies are adding and releasing new offerings in a prolific way, Access has been like the Mary Celeste this last year.
I really don't want to get into a debate here on hard vs soft synths. I'm a fan of both... but have you ever looked at the modulation possibilities of something like Zebra? There are lots softsynths out there that let you literally modulate anything via anything, especially ones with modular or semi modular architectures. When I had my Virus Ti2, the possibilities VC afforded at that time (2009 I think?) were not even close to the versatility of Zebra, though admittedly I have not had my hands on VC recently.
The customisable oscillator waveforms on Zebra2 look extremely cool too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfgoQYVP010
The customisable oscillator waveforms on Zebra2 look extremely cool too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfgoQYVP010
Not only do you have flexibility on the waveform, it is dead easy to take that waveform, modify it in some way (for example using the mouse to redraw the harmonics), then morph the waveform.
This is not the best example video, but if you watch about 10-15 seconds in, where he transitions the waveform between stage 1 and 16: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqjCrvcV8q0 it almost shows what I mean when I say its easy to start with one wave in stage 1, copy it to stage 16, tweakt it to a different wave, then morph so that stage 2-15 are slow transitions between the two states, then you can modulate between those stages pretty much however and using whatever you want. He is not using complex additive waveforms here so its not a good showcase, but sort of shows the morphing possibility (I couldn't find the exact video I wanted).
Here's a guy making a dirty bass sound, which shows editing the waveform a slightly different way, so if you combine the two vids you can kinda get the idea.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlMD7MsipyQ&playnext=1&list=PL950F4CAC866EC6E0&feature=results_main
Zebra is an absolute monster of a synth. There's a reason why Hans Zimmer made this his instrument of choice when he did the soundtrack to (Batman) Dark Knight Rises. You can even actually buy all the original sounds used in the movie for Zebra.
UPDATE: For some reason when I first clicked your link the vid didn't load so I proceeded with my post without seeing it, but it is actually a better vid for the features I was describing than the ones I posted... Anyway I will leave what I wrote for thread integrity even though it seems unnecessary now. As a side note, I find the MSEG feature just as valuable, although when Zebra first came out, there were not too many other synths available that had this feature, whereas these days it seems more synth designers are adding them... just more crazy modulation possibilities that you pretty much never see on hardware.
TweakHead
20.11.2012, 10:29 AM
I really don't want to get into a debate here on hard vs soft synths. I'm a fan of both... but have you ever looked at the modulation possibilities of something like Zebra? There are lots softsynths out there that let you literally modulate anything via anything, especially ones with modular or semi modular architectures. When I had my Virus Ti2, the possibilities VC afforded at that time (2009 I think?) were not even close to the versatility of Zebra, though admittedly I have not had my hands on VC recently.
yep, need no introduction to that one! Zebra is one of my favourites as well... What I meant was that it is still kind of rare to find fx parameters as modulation destinations, or something like Random for source, or the level of option for oscilators, for example, in just one synth - and it is... and why not say Reaktor? cause that would blow even the Nord Modular out of the watter when it comes to available options, right? But the point is the Virus, despite having a lot more to it, has almost a standard subtractive layout, that's very flexible - like we all know - but that's it, and on that championship, it still kind of ownes it. The filters to me are still the best sounding out there...
But yeah, couple that with the ability to draw waveshapes like on the Zebra, possibly even user wavetables, samples, so forth and so on... and it would be the beast to rule them all. some copying of massive's kind of lfos would be cool to, btw eheh
just give us a new beast to play with access - with no usb bugs on it! and we'll start a new access music religion right here
namnibor
20.11.2012, 05:40 PM
Wonder why USB 3.0 is not exploited by hardly ANYONE? Would a new Ti benefit with Firewire 400/800 or like I said, USB 3.0 rather than USB 2.0's inherent limitations? It's hard enough to even find a high quality pro audio interface exploiting USB 3, let alone external hard drives with it. Thoughts on this?
robert
Berni
20.11.2012, 07:43 PM
Wonder why USB 3.0 is not exploited by hardly ANYONE? Would a new Ti benefit with Firewire 400/800 or like I said, USB 3.0 rather than USB 2.0's inherent limitations? It's hard enough to even find a high quality pro audio interface exploiting USB 3, let alone external hard drives with it. Thoughts on this?
robert
There is also thunderbolt which seems to be gaining popularity. Looking through the latest sweetwater catalogue I see quite a few manufacturers adopting this connectivity for there gear.
namnibor
20.11.2012, 09:00 PM
There is also thunderbolt which seems to be gaining popularity. Looking through the latest sweetwater catalogue I see quite a few manufacturers adopting this connectivity for there gear.
Is "Thunderbolt" a propriatorial Apple product or is it being employed by PC's as well? I ask because a few months ago I had a professional custom-build powerful desktop/tower to use solely for audio and video intensive editing/production, having a few USB 3.0 and Firewire 400 as well as eSATA and is an AMD based system. Thunderbolt was not an option at the time for these pro geeks that built this for me.
Here's the scoop of poop with anything faster than USB 2.0 in-relation to say a couple hard drives with no less than 7200 rpm, 64 mb cache: The manufacturers of hard drives, external or internal, will ALL use the wording "transfer speeds UP TO 6 GBsec"....however the problem is that inherent faster/top transfer speeds are not utilized because USB 2 or even USB 3 devices do not actually transfer that fast and correct me if wrong, but Firewire 400 and USB 3 are comparable in speeds. When I use eSATA for an external third drive of same speed and cache soley for samples for like Izotope Iris's sample library, I actually get faster transfer with eSATA than even USB 3.
Sorry so long here but I guess I am asking why eSATA never really has been exploited expecially since eSATA goes right to motherboard and very fast memory for audio interfaces? I have read too, that USB 2 causes so many issues because USB 2 prefers to be propriatory in a direct connection and works great for audio but midi can be hit and miss. Lastly, I have found that whatever computer I may use, there's no problems as long as I use the EXACT SAME USB 2 port that I initially set-up audio interface with unless I want to go through reinstall procedures.
namnibor
20.11.2012, 09:11 PM
....**MAYBE** I should wait a bit when Access releases whatever they have up their sleeves, then get an used Virus Ti2 a bit cheaper when people start selling to buy the "next Virus"? :p
On a side note, Elektron's 'Analog Four" is being released Dec 3, and it's official in the FACT they are releasing it VERY incomplete. So much in-fact, not even an operational manual because they are not sure if all features can even be implimented~!! The device does not give me any GAS whatsoever because it seems to me to be a quasi-copy of DSI Poly Evolver BUT without the poly-thing and absolutely no wavetable osc's either. What's up with the ethics of companies releasing BLATANT incomplete products? Could this just be simple greed and expense of nervous systems of humans? I do not get it!
Back to the Mothership!
namnibor
20.11.2012, 09:15 PM
yep, need no introduction to that one! Zebra is one of my favourites as well... What I meant was that it is still kind of rare to find fx parameters as modulation destinations, or something like Random for source, or the level of option for oscilators, for example, in just one synth - and it is... and why not say Reaktor? cause that would blow even the Nord Modular out of the watter when it comes to available options, right? But the point is the Virus, despite having a lot more to it, has almost a standard subtractive layout, that's very flexible - like we all know - but that's it, and on that championship, it still kind of ownes it. The filters to me are still the best sounding out there...
But yeah, couple that with the ability to draw waveshapes like on the Zebra, possibly even user wavetables, samples, so forth and so on... and it would be the beast to rule them all. some copying of massive's kind of lfos would be cool to, btw eheh
just give us a new beast to play with access - with no usb bugs on it! and we'll start a new access music religion right here
Due to my now over military career, am quite new to the soft-synth scene BUT jumped right into Izotope Iris and wondering if you have checked it out? It is absolutely so cool! Imagine a hardware verion of something like a sampler on steriods? IRIS is pretty processor intensive, FYI. I like Camel Audio as well but honestly, have SO MANY hardware synths and prefer hardware, the few software things are just creative escape and fun for now.
Thunderbolt is an Intel thing, although Apple was first to introduce to market. You can buy a card to add it to your PC.
The Apollo interface (which is high on my wish list right now) has the option to utilize it (you have to buy a card to slide into the expansion bay of the Apollo, and their website currently lists Mac support with Windows support slated for 2012).
I never understood why the Ti2 did not utilize the full potential of even USB 2.0, and I've never seen Access answer that question. I'd like to believe Thunderbolt and/or USB3 would solve many of the problems I saw with the Ti2, but when the status quo is so shrouded in mystery it's hard to know what to believe.
Berni
20.11.2012, 10:37 PM
....**MAYBE** I should wait a bit when Access releases whatever they have up their sleeves, then get an used Virus Ti2 a bit cheaper when people start selling to buy the "next Virus"? :p
On a side note, Elektron's 'Analog Four" is being released Dec 3, and it's official in the FACT they are releasing it VERY incomplete. So much in-fact, not even an operational manual because they are not sure if all features can even be implimented~!! The device does not give me any GAS whatsoever because it seems to me to be a quasi-copy of DSI Poly Evolver BUT without the poly-thing and absolutely no wavetable osc's either. What's up with the ethics of companies releasing BLATANT incomplete products? Could this just be simple greed and expense of nervous systems of humans? I do not get it!
Back to the Mothership!
If I where u I would not wait around for access to release anything...its not looking to good for them & hasn't been for quite some time. As far as hard/software musical instrument manufacturers are concerned there are so many of them releasing products that don't match up to there advertising it is criminal & has been going on for decades with even some of the biggest names not coming through with the product they sell. Features promised not being implemented, buggy software, crappy build quality etc. etc.
If I buy software I download the demo & fully test before purchasing & if I buy hardware I get it from a dealer that will take it back if I am not happy with it after a month. It's the only way to avoid disappointment.
The fact is most of them are like drug dealers & do not have ethics, they just want your money.
Firewire's on its way out (try buy a laptop with one now, or even a desktop PC, your choice is very limited).
USB is a stalwart and here to stay. USB v3 is fully back compatible with earlier versions. USB v3 is also forward-compatible, allowing USB v3 devices to be used on older USB v2 ports (albeit at USB v2 speeds).
Thunderbolt is still seemingly fairly elusive, unless you're using Apple stuff, otherwise it's still not mainstream, a niche market.
All comes down to cost. Firewire was technically superior to USB, but firewire was deemed a premium product and USB won the battle overall because of cost - the lower cost of both the interfaces and separate devices. Again, Thunderbolt is superior to USB v3, but USB will win again, due to cost and relevancy to the userbase. If you need speeds that require Thunderbolt, odds on your usage is deemed a 'niche' thing compared to average people's usage.
For relevancy, compatibility and cost, USB is still the best bet to target most users as possible. If Access need more bandwidth, then a USB v2 HighSpeed chipset is needed (instead of the Full Speed chipset they've used in the TIs), or USB v3.
Berni
21.11.2012, 01:55 AM
Firewire's on its way out (try buy a laptop with one now, or even a desktop PC, your choice is very limited).
USB is a stalwart and here to stay. USB v3 is fully back compatible with earlier versions. USB v3 is also forward-compatible, allowing USB v3 devices to be used on older USB v2 ports (albeit at USB v2 speeds).
Thunderbolt is still seemingly fairly elusive, unless you're using Apple stuff, otherwise it's still not mainstream, a niche market.
All comes down to cost. Firewire was technically superior to USB, but firewire was deemed a premium product and USB won the battle overall because of cost - the lower cost of both the interfaces and separate devices. Again, Thunderbolt is superior to USB v3, but USB will win again, due to cost and relevancy to the userbase. If you need speeds that require Thunderbolt, odds on your usage is deemed a 'niche' thing compared to average people's usage.
For relevancy, compatibility and cost, USB is still the best bet to target most users as possible. If Access need more bandwidth, then a USB v2 HighSpeed chipset is needed (instead of the Full Speed chipset they've used in the TIs), or USB v3.
Yeah I agree, firewire's days are numbered but so is usb. The latest macbook pro's sport 2 usb 3 ports & 2 thunderbolt ports & flash drives. The only reason the usb ports are there are to plug your mouse or flash drive in. If you use it to connect to a large display, audio interface or whatever why would you use the usb ports on a computer that can go way faster than the usb bandwith & have the faster thunderbolt option?
I really dont think thunderbolt is a 'niche' market (apple computers are not a niche market, everyone I know uses them) & everyone wants there computer set up to run faster & more efficiently & the old technology will go the way of all old technology. Who knows what is next but the future connectivity is not usb as far as I can see. Even at 3 thunderbolt still smokes it.
Just my experienced 2c.
Ashe35
21.11.2012, 03:06 AM
Yeah I agree, firewire's days are numbered but so is usb. The latest macbook pro's sport 2 usb 3 ports & 2 thunderbolt ports & flash drives. The only reason the usb ports are there are to plug your mouse or flash drive in. If you use it to connect to a large display, audio interface or whatever why would you use the usb ports on a computer that can go way faster than the usb bandwith & have the faster thunderbolt option?
I really don't think thunderbolt is a 'niche' market (apple computers are not a niche market, everyone I know uses them) & everyone wants there computer set up to run faster & more efficiently & the old technology will go the way of all old technology. Who knows what is next but the future connectivity is not usb as far as I can see. Even at 3 thunderbolt still smokes it.
Just my experienced 2c.
I really don't see USB going anywhere. It is installed on the vast majority of PCs that are out there and/or being shipped, Thunderbolt isn't. Yes, Apple is a niche market, at somewhere around 15% of the market (unless you count iOS devices....). Thunderbolt still currently requires the Mux/Demux chips in each cable,. which makes even a short cable cost $40. The cost of implementing thunderbolt is higher as well... especially for storage type devices.
TweakHead
21.11.2012, 02:36 PM
Besides, it's kind of stupid for apple to drop support on firewire so soon, since there's tons of people (like me) who still have firewire soundcards and are not selling them on ebay to get new ones just because Apple decided that thunderbolt is the thing... It really isn't, so far. Besides the Apollo soundcard, I don't see many audio stuff out there with the thunderbolt option. So that's just an unfortunate case of big corporations pushing for their favourite standard, like when Sony has decided to adopt blueray for their gaming console - thus forcing the industry to follow. It's always the same with this kind of thing.
But guess what, we have a hard time deciding upon a good format that would solve the possible bandwith problems that the TI line is facing with the usb connection, now imagine you had to make such decision for the next Virus line. I think the above post makes a very valid point: usb is still the most global of all options, present in literally all computers nowadays, while firewire isn't on some of the new apples, and thunderbolt is mainly an apple thing, still - even though you can get it for intel pcs as well. So it isn't an easy solution for them. Maybe they could do something similar to what Universal Audio has done with Apolo, if it was feasable. But this just shows how much of a challange it must be to have a hardware unit in perfect sync with a daw, streaming audio in and out, and all of that. So much so, that even though everybody recognizes it's a good idea, not a single other company has tried such a thing. And I'd bet that Clavia or Waldorf wouldn't mind having their products advertising total integration as well. And even without it - here I go again - those synths have fewer options then the Virus line, and, even though this is my oppinion, hence totally subjective, I dare say that the Virus still owns it in terms of sound quality, specially the filters.
Since the industry hasn't really reached a new standard with more bandwith then usb, I really don't see them jumping to a new synth so soon. I think the chances of seeing them do an analogue are very remote, if any. They could throw some new totally virtual synth to get some revenues on the meantime, that would be cool, but somehow I doubt it... I'd bet that nothing is going to happen! Maybe they'll have a cake their, since it's they're celebrating 15 years down the line.
Berni
21.11.2012, 05:09 PM
I really don't see USB going anywhere. It is installed on the vast majority of PCs that are out there and/or being shipped, Thunderbolt isn't. Yes, Apple is a niche market, at somewhere around 15% of the market (unless you count iOS devices....). Thunderbolt still currently requires the Mux/Demux chips in each cable,. which makes even a short cable cost $40. The cost of implementing thunderbolt is higher as well... especially for storage type devices.
I think you miss understood my post. I didn't say usb was going anywhere I just don't think it has much of a future for connecting audio, video or whatever devices. It's good for plugging in your mouse, flash drive etc.
Of course with all new technology the price is always initially high, look how much hard drives have fallen in price these last few years compared to what they used to cost & now internal flash drives are coming down in price now they are becoming more widespread. Its just a matter of time
Back on topic.
Access: "Another day closer. The darkest night of winter is approaching."
http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/306769_10151202068643702_1468839607_n.jpg
The darkest night being the winter solstice (Dec 21) in the northern hemisphere.
Looks like a Polar TI2 Dark Star, but that's already been previously released.
It's got white knobs, so maybe a new Snow TI2?
Edit: Just realised the image is mirrored. Flipping and enlarging it gives this:
http://www.infekted.org/virus/images/various/viruswhiteknobs.png
... with an exit/mode button on the left, and a Whiteout patch loaded up.
The existing TI Snow also has an exit/mode button to the left, and has a volume knob directly underneath the exit button (with the same 'swish' above the volume knob):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Virus_TI_Snow.JPG
Whereas the Desktop and other versions don't:
http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/1800/VirusTI2Desk-xlarge.jpg
http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/1800/VirusTI2Key-xlarge.jpg
http://www.sweetwater.com/images/closeup/xl/1600-VirusTI2PDS_detail1.jpg
So, looks like the Snow is getting a limited edition Dark Star treatment or similar.
That's a shame, as it likely means that Access are not going introduce a new line of Viruses any time soon as Snow DarkStar and OS v5 will tide them over for another year. Good news for those who have existing TI1 and TI2s, however.
Confirmed, looks like they're releasing just 15 of them for this weeks so-called Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving in America.
http://i2.wp.com/www.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/access-virus-ti-snow-black-synthesizer.jpg
http://i1.wp.com/www.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Virus-SE-SnowBerlin-synthesizer.png
So the possibility of a new Virus TI3 line at NAMM 2013 may not be written off just yet. :D
AndrewM
21.11.2012, 11:03 PM
Way to be original about the color scheme access. :razz:
http://www.musik-schmidt.de/images/product_images/popup_images/Waldorf-Blofeld-Black.jpg
TweakHead
21.11.2012, 11:44 PM
Yeah, how could we have forgot this? There was still th:shock: e alternative paint for snow missing... Looks sexy!
namnibor
22.11.2012, 01:21 AM
Besides, it's kind of stupid for apple to drop support on firewire so soon, since there's tons of people (like me) who still have firewire soundcards and are not selling them on ebay to get new ones just because Apple decided that thunderbolt is the thing... It really isn't, so far. Besides the Apollo soundcard, I don't see many audio stuff out there with the thunderbolt option. So that's just an unfortunate case of big corporations pushing for their favourite standard, like when Sony has decided to adopt blueray for their gaming console - thus forcing the industry to follow. It's always the same with this kind of thing.
But guess what, we have a hard time deciding upon a good format that would solve the possible bandwith problems that the TI line is facing with the usb connection, now imagine you had to make such decision for the next Virus line. I think the above post makes a very valid point: usb is still the most global of all options, present in literally all computers nowadays, while firewire isn't on some of the new apples, and thunderbolt is mainly an apple thing, still - even though you can get it for intel pcs as well. So it isn't an easy solution for them. Maybe they could do something similar to what Universal Audio has done with Apolo, if it was feasable. But this just shows how much of a challange it must be to have a hardware unit in perfect sync with a daw, streaming audio in and out, and all of that. So much so, that even though everybody recognizes it's a good idea, not a single other company has tried such a thing. And I'd bet that Clavia or Waldorf wouldn't mind having their products advertising total integration as well. And even without it - here I go again - those synths have fewer options then the Virus line, and, even though this is my oppinion, hence totally subjective, I dare say that the Virus still owns it in terms of sound quality, specially the filters.
Since the industry hasn't really reached a new standard with more bandwith then usb, I really don't see them jumping to a new synth so soon. I think the chances of seeing them do an analogue are very remote, if any. They could throw some new totally virtual synth to get some revenues on the meantime, that would be cool, but somehow I doubt it... I'd bet that nothing is going to happen! Maybe they'll have a cake their, since it's they're celebrating 15 years down the line.
LOL....Access having an exact scale model Ti2 shaped cake, and cakes looking exactly like the Virus KB and KC and maybe a Belgium Chocolate Fountain made up with the Snow bodies on toing down to the Indigo at base of chocolate fountain...LOL!!! Sorry, my imagination went wild with you flip comment that "....maybe they will have a cake or something...", LOVE IT!!!
namnibor
22.11.2012, 01:26 AM
Yeah, how could we have forgot this? There was still th:shock: e alternative paint for snow missing... Looks sexy!
What's even more surprising is Mr. Hartmann has worked concurrently with Waldorf AND Access on industrial design so do not know how someone missed this OBVIOUS "looky-like" as they would say on "Absolutely Fabulous" reruns!!! LOL! It would be akin to Waldorf, when releasing the "Shaddow Edition" of the Blofeld Black Keyboard (which I own), and instead calling it their "Darkstar Edition Blofeld"....WTF?~~~:shock:
I really don't understand the whole "limited edition coloring" phenomenon. Seems like a low-rent marketing scam/gimmick to generate excitement
("look we changed something! And its in limited quantity") hoping to get a few suckers to line up and say "my current one is white so I want black now", or of course vice versa, just as a gesture from the marketing dept to try to manipulate the human psyche.
Who cares? Its not like anyone will be able to get parts for their "limited edition snow" in 20-30 years or so to keep it going like new, which is what makes classic cars or limited edition antiques exciting.
An utter waste of time.
namnibor
22.11.2012, 03:29 AM
I really don't understand the whole "limited edition coloring" phenomenon. Seems like a low-rent marketing scam/gimmick to generate excitement
("look we changed something! And its in limited quantity") hoping to get a few suckers to line up and say "my current one is white so I want black now", or of course vice versa, just as a gesture from the marketing dept to try to manipulate the human psyche.
Who cares? Its not like anyone will be able to get parts for their "limited edition snow" in 20-30 years or so to keep it going like new, which is what makes classic cars or limited edition antiques exciting.
An utter waste of time.
I have to agree wholeheartedly! it's blatant consumerism and marketing at it's most ugly underbelly image. On THAT note, I feel MOOG has fallen prey to this SAME sheepish marketing scheme, even with some of the new names of color schema of them with similar adjectives that mimic "Snow" or "Toxic"...absolutely nothing has changed as far as innovations, just the color. I do not mean to be slamming Moog because they DO analog very well, albeit expensively and at least I find even their "Slim Phatty" blatant marketing to the hip hop scene's incessant booming bass....but it INDEED is "SLIM" in that it's slim on features, compared to a Voyager, et al. To me it's like placing a wrapper on a pound of LARD that states "DIET LARD" or in my example, "SLIM (on features but it's)PHAT"...we synthheads have to bear a tiny bit of why even the "big three" (and others) will continue to repackage the same turd (did I say turd?) for years and years with no added innovation, whereas Access has always continued to strive to make instruments better and surprisingly better even through free updates. My rant shouts out to companies such as korg, whom has repackaged and renamed the very same triton engine for how many decades now? Then there's yamaha doing same with tyros, when yamaha actually had an innovative light-sequencer, Tenori=On, which they dropped like a rent-a-date! Dare I mention roland continuing to repackage the jupiter? What about re-exploring Additive Synthesis or something to remain "relevant" in an age where technology of software synths could easily push in the 6 feet of dirt on their graves unless they remain innovative as Access, Waldorf, and Radikal Technologies has and still do?
I have absolutely no GAS for Arturia's MiniBrute, BUT, I think they see the future and my prediction is the software synth companies will more and more come out with hardware as Arturia is and FYI--they have almost a YEAR or backorders because they will not compromise and keep manufacturing in France. it's what they put out NEXT that will keep me on the edge waiting.
Rant over but I think I make some relevant points ABOUT remaining relevant!! Happy Thanksgiving to those that celebrate it on here, wherever you are! We have to be thankful for companies such as Access that even their older incarnations of Virus still blow everyone else out of the water!!!
namnibor
22.11.2012, 03:59 AM
Confirmed, looks like they're releasing just 15 of them for this weeks so-called Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving in America.
http://i2.wp.com/www.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/access-virus-ti-snow-black-synthesizer.jpg
http://i1.wp.com/www.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Virus-SE-SnowBerlin-synthesizer.png
So the possibility of a new Virus TI3 line at NAMM 2013 may not be written off just yet. :D
At least it's not called "VIRAL YELLOW SNOW"!!!! LOL!
At least it's not called "VIRAL YELLOW SNOW"!!!! LOL!
LOL!... At least a yellow snow edition would show some creativity on their part instead of this black/white toggle.
Honestly the color changes would all make sense to me if it were a case of marketing people supplementing the technology innovation instead of supplanting it... as an example I alluded to before, if an automaker decides to make a limited edition of a car, it can be awesome if the car is historically important enough to be recognized several decades later. I don't think we will be able to buy replacement parts to keep our Ti Snows going in the year 2033, nor will we probably even care.
Admittedly without having actual insight into the company, as an engineer myself, I feel like Access is undergoing one of those moments I've seen in a few companies where the resource allocation has shifted from technical innovation to marketing. When that happens, the dead-end has been marked on the map and it is only a matter of time before the company goes belly up and blames things like the economy, current politicians, changing times and increasingly finicky consumers. The real problem, in my experience, is that some bean-counter in the back with the books decides hey marketing people cost $X per hour, while engineering people cost $X*2 per hour, and make a case to some CEO making $X^X per hour that the company can save money and increase sales by cutting engineering (thus innovation) and increasing advertising, thus kissing the arse of the CEO and making him feel more entitled to his already inequitable salary. The pattern continues ad infinitum.
namnibor
22.11.2012, 12:33 PM
Well, on an "up-note" and always being a person to be able to see the glass half-full rather, at LEAST Access IS releasing something! This also means that unbeknownst to anyone else, that Access may INDEED announce something new and cool at NAMM! I say this emphasising that a big part of being competitive is not showing your competetors what you may have up your sleeve because otherwise, company "B" may rather than wait until a product is actually complete, releasing it barely with it's "baby clothes" on such as case with Elektron's Analog Four. The O.S. is not even half-complete, no user manual because they are not even SURE if they can impliment projected specs! THAT's unacceptable marketing laced with greed and too much more psychologically to even go into here. I used that example because it truely shocked me because what they are BANKING ON is those diehards like *some* Apple "loyalists" that will stand in lines outside a store for days for the next iPhone when Apple had JUST released their last iPhone or iPad not even 6 months prior! It's a bit like the "sheep/sheeple" mentality. I swear Apple could put their brand on a toilet seat and charge $600. and those same "loyalists" would be in same lines! None of these companies would even attempt such things if people did not allow themself to be manipulated, let alone think FOR THEMSELVES!!
Remaining optimistic here that Access is currently working on something new and big. Would even be openly filled with glee if they released a hardware advanced polyphonic sequencer with innovative sampling that could be ALSO side-chained in a Ti set-up with ability to map those samples and morph across key-range:-) Happy Thanksgiving!
Berni
23.11.2012, 10:56 PM
My prediction for access at NAMM this year...old snow now gone slushy, black snow, get it ; ) & hopefully a full release of OS5...it's only been 11 months since they announced it FFS. Thats it.
Access loyalist's will defend them by saying that they are giving there synths extra features at no cost to them but guess what, access don't give a shit about existing owners (my experience anyway) they already have your money. The extra features are to try & sell the same TI they have been doing for 7 years because they no longer have the resources to develop a new synth. The whole 'darkstar' thing is like putting lip stick on a pig, it might look prettier but it's still a pig :lol:
namnibor
24.11.2012, 12:17 AM
My prediction for access at NAMM this year...old snow now gone slushy, black snow, get it ; ) & hopefully a full release of OS5...it's only been 11 months since they announced it FFS. Thats it.
Access loyalist's will defend them by saying that they are giving there synths extra features at no cost to them but guess what, access don't give a shit about existing owners (my experience anyway) they already have your money. The extra features are to try & sell the same TI they have been doing for 7 years because they no longer have the resources to develop a new synth. The whole 'darkstar' thing is like putting lip stick on a pig, it might look prettier but it's still a pig :lol:
I would have to disagree with Access not "having the resources...", as Access, as I recently learned, is a subsidiary of a much LARGER industrial electronics and metals company, which I think is quite cool! I am a free-agent in this life and not a loyalist to none other than God Himself and I firmly believe creativity is alive and well!
You can at LEAST acknowledge that Germany, as well as most of the Industrialized world except maybe China, has undergone a financial meltdown as of 2007 to present!
My own family roots are from Industrialists from the mid 1800's and remember when their factory fell on some hard times due to the 1970's USA Environmental Protection Laws implimented where if you were a huge company, you could pay the half million usd dollar fine and keep polluting to your heart's delight--my family had to re-engineer their whole operation and proud to say release only steam rather pollutants to this day. However, ANY financial meltdown or economic downturn, e.g. recession, is going to take patience even on we waiting "consumers" because as you well-know there's a revolutionary turn taking place in the synth market, where softsynths are more than likely making hardware makers kinda re-evaluate their approach based upon this. This ALSO depends on how Access may have patent-protected their Total Integration. Where software synths have a nebulous future as well in that just how LONG will company A continue to make O.S. and Driver/Code Updates to not ONLY stay up with Apple or Intel O.S. and their updates, but what about all the compatability updates for plethora of audio interfaces and DAW's for these all relatively small softsynth companies? Sorry so long but doing some "critical thinking" trying to see the whole picture from all angles, inside and out!
Access really did an innovative thing with the whole Ti concept and have to give them kudos for actually sticking with it in the long evolution of getting VC to work relatively stable! Right?
Perhaps Access has been doing R&D all the while to ensure the next step in this Ti journey has less bumpy roads for them and their customers?! Innovation and ingenuity as well as progress does not always happen in our self-created concept of "time'. Seven years...yet you have THE SYNTH of THE FUTURE!! Also, like it or not, real analog is making a comeback full-circle! I BET there's ALOT of the major synth maker's exec's having incredible loose bowels in viewing how successful Arturia is witheir hardware synth Minibrute. The past is the future and the future is the past--always has and always will be as it's the human way! Rant over and back to the mother ship!
namnibor
24.11.2012, 12:24 AM
My prediction for access at NAMM this year...old snow now gone slushy, black snow, get it ; ) & hopefully a full release of OS5...it's only been 11 months since they announced it FFS. Thats it.
Access loyalist's will defend them by saying that they are giving there synths extra features at no cost to them but guess what, access don't give a shit about existing owners (my experience anyway) they already have your money. The extra features are to try & sell the same TI they have been doing for 7 years because they no longer have the resources to develop a new synth. The whole 'darkstar' thing is like putting lip stick on a pig, it might look prettier but it's still a pig :lol:
Berni, did the Ti give you an incredible electrical shock at some point that it has left an electrical bad taste in your mouth to this day yet? LOL!
You can at LEAST acknowledge that Germany, as well as most of the Industrialized world except maybe China, has undergone a financial meltdown as of 2007 to present!
Meanwhile great products continue to emerge from other vendors in the economy... an example being Maschine, also from battered Germany :)
Berni
24.11.2012, 01:19 AM
Berni, did the Ti give you an incredible electrical shock at some point that it has left an electrical bad taste in your mouth to this day yet? LOL!
Lol..I have had a virus since the A model & probably know way more about access than you do. They do not manufacture the virus & they do not write the software for it....Now lets see if my predictions come true. If not I will show my arse in Macy's/Burtons window. Until then...give it up eh. If they have the resources they are not using them very well.
Berni
24.11.2012, 03:03 AM
Meanwhile great products continue to emerge from other vendors in the economy... an example being Maschine, also from battered Germany :)
Ahh those poor germans...nobody says, Lol, LOL LOL & yes loving NI's stuff right now. Not only value for money but actually work right out of the box.
namnibor
24.11.2012, 09:01 AM
:shock: Lol..I have had a virus since the A model & probably know way more about access than you do. They do not manufacture the virus & they do not write the software for it....Now lets see if my predictions come true. If not I will show my arse in Macy's/Burtons window. Until then...give it up eh. If they have the resources they are not using them very well.
Then you must not realize where the Waldorf-Music's great minds went while they took a bankruptcy holiday...working with Access!
....And I am supposed to be impressed by your "awesomeness" for knowing more about Access than I or anyone else? At least I can remain optimistic in this life, rather than a jaded cloud of negativity. The Korg MS20 I learned deep synthesis on back in '82 remains relevant to these instruments Access produced that are "new to me" (Virus KB and KC), because the same principles apply but even deeper. However, that does not mean I am a better sound designer than anyone else. It just means a chunk of time was dedicated to an extended military career and am now able to express in a post-traumatic way through very advanced instruments and learn by reading on many pro forums and learn from the wisdom of others. However, walking clouds of glum and gloom that cannot even recognize when a company IS releasing *something* as Access is but YOU happen to not LIKE it...seems a bit childish and somewhat sad! Why crap on other's positivity? eheh.... :shock:
TweakHead
25.11.2012, 09:00 AM
Oh, and let's not forget that Berni has a Virus, I bet he continues to use it to this day and he sometimes thinks: "hell, this machine sounds good, never getting rid of it, but on the meantime will be pissing on Access's parade so they get their act togheter and make a special Berni TI 3 with the brithish flag paint, not that darkstar crap of theirs, just for me" eheh. Keep the humour folks!
Don't know about any of you, I know this is just marketing blabla of some kind, but I actually think the black ones should be standard and the white ones special edditions for apple's fan boys, the kind of people who would cry if their synths don't match their imacs and i stuff... they could also sell some usb cabbles that would mimick the thunderbolt connections, so as to give a more stylish look.
Someone get me one of these black snows please, I'm in the epicenter of this crysis LOL, feel free to ask for paypall account on PM. Cheers
For me, the music-production related forums are one of the last bastions of Internet discussions that stand a reasonable chance of being free of pissing matches and insults, so not only am I not trying to piss on anyone else's good time, I do go out of my way to present my opinions in a way that avoids turning music and synth discussions into a competition. I'm one of the most competitive people I've ever met, but I see music and synths as a collaborative branch of my existence and I don't want to turn discussing it into a sport.
All of that said, I've never held back my opinion of Access here. Obviously the fact that I still visit this board indicates an interest in the Virus, and I certainly do still have that. I just find it frustrating that while they are one of the only synths that has taken on a challenge like total integration via USB, they seem to have a half-hearted commitment to it. Then, going in to a major trade show with product announcements like relatively insignificant filter changes or other minor OS tweaks, with zero updates that address major issues, all while maintaining a premium price structure in landscape where softsynths have to a large extent exceeded the capabilities and sound possibilities of hardware seems arrogant to me.
I continue to have faith and to watch the product line, hoping to own a Virus again one day; however Winter NAMM has become something of an anniversary of disappointment with regard to Access, while other vendors continue to make progress and introduce interesting products. I'd love to see that trend change, and maybe I'll be surprised and see an unexpected change this year, but based on the last several years, odds don't seem in favor of it.
TweakHead
25.11.2012, 11:47 AM
For me, the music-production related forums are one of the last bastions of Internet discussions that stand a reasonable chance of being free of pissing matches and insults, so not only am I not trying to piss on anyone else's good time, I do go out of my way to present my opinions in a way that avoids turning music and synth discussions into a competition. I'm one of the most competitive people I've ever met, but I see music and synths as a collaborative branch of my existence and I don't want to turn discussing it into a sport.
If that was meant to include me, I was only joking here. :confused:
namnibor
25.11.2012, 01:15 PM
If that was meant to include me, I was only joking here. :confused:
I certainly second that because my sense of humor often is taken perhaps the wrong way because I enjoy sardonic and dark humor and in no way want any "pissing matches" as I have expressed, am hear to learn and to contribute when I can. I just personally believe in communication and with that being said, rather than bemoaning Access, et al; contacting Access or any synth manufaturer with one's concerns and O.S. issues still unaddressed is still the ideal way to handle that rather than potentially turning someone newer to Access in particular, but not synths, with a negative impression bemoaning and trashing a company on a forum like this is probably very counterintuitive to our quests of being Cultural Creatives in this crazy world! Peace to all and like it or not, I remain an optimistic person!
TweakHead
25.11.2012, 02:01 PM
Second that. And there's a clear distinction between one's expectations about the development of some company being frustrated over time and the actual potential of it to make music. At the end of the day that's what matters the most. And as far as digital hardware synths are concerned, the virus is one of the most complete and deep synths on the market today. Also bear in mind that as far as the Batman movie OST is concerned, the actual synth used was a specially made version of Zebra combined with Diva's (another u-he synth) filters and some specially designed, for the occasion, modules. Let me remind you that even though that special package sounds great, no doubt about that, it comes with the cost of eating so much of one's cpu that it hardly stands a chance of becoming a go to synth for practical music making. It's actually one of the very few filters out there, on the software market, that holds it against the quality you can find on the virus - and it eats cpu for breakfast. Therefore, the virus having it's own couple of dsp to handle it's own sound is still a BIG advantage, even with todays cpus. The Diva alone can make intel i7 salad if you push it to its limits, and I mean just one instance of it - tested, so no speculation here.
And while we're at it. How come adding two extra assignable envelopes reads to some as nothing special? Do you even realize that's the kind of specification most synths display on a catalogue? And adding some extra filter options? Is that something a sound designer does not appreciate? I mean... If you don't like filters and envelopes, that's only two of the main modules on any given synth there is in the world. Just my 2 cents on that matter.
There's more sucessfull tunes made with a virus, these days, then any number of people speaking badly about it. Would you rather have something like a Nord Lead? Two Oscilators, doesn't even have a mod matrix - to this day - and it still sells. It's got some very good qualities, not denying it, but my virus C would eat it for breakfast when it comes to depth, let alone the TI line. That does count for me. Quality and having options.
The only thing I do agree with here is the price being to high. It really is. And by the way, what hardware synths do you guys like? And what companies do you think are pushing the limits here? Because U-he and Native Instruments are mostly software companies, there's not a single hardware synth by them. Point made I guess.
And no one's pushing this towards Ego battles, it's just playfull joking, opinion sharing, and healthy talking the way I see it. Cheers to all.
namnibor
25.11.2012, 02:20 PM
Second that. And there's a clear distinction between one's expectations about the development of some company being frustrated over time and the actual potential of it to make music. At the end of the day that's what matters the most. And as far as digital hardware synths are concerned, the virus is one of the most complete and deep synths on the market today. Also bear in mind that as far as the Batman movie OST is concerned, the actual synth used was a specially made version of Zebra combined with Diva's (another u-he synth) filters and some specially designed, for the occasion, modules. Let me remind you that even though that special package sounds great, no doubt about that, it comes with the cost of eating so much of one's cpu that it hardly stands a chance of becoming a go to synth for practical music making. It's actually one of the very few filters out there, on the software market, that holds it against the quality you can find on the virus - and it eats cpu for breakfast. Therefore, the virus having it's own couple of dsp to handle it's own sound is still a BIG advantage, even with todays cpus. The Diva alone can make intel i7 salad if you push it to its limits, and I mean just one instance of it - tested, so no speculation here.
And while we're at it. How come adding two extra assignable envelopes reads to some as nothing special? Do you even realize that's the kind of specification most synths display on a catalogue? And adding some extra filter options? Is that something a sound designer does not appreciate? I mean... If you don't like filters and envelopes, that's only two of the main modules on any given synth there is in the world. Just my 2 cents on that matter.
There's more sucessfull tunes made with a virus, these days, then any number of people speaking badly about it. Would you rather have something like a Nord Lead? Two Oscilators, doesn't even have a mod matrix - to this day - and it still sells. It's got some very good qualities, not denying it, but my virus C would eat it for breakfast when it comes to depth, let alone the TI line. That does count for me. Quality and having options.
The only thing I do agree with here is the price being to high. It really is. And by the way, what hardware synths do you guys like? And what companies do you think are pushing the limits here? Because U-he and Native Instruments are mostly software companies, there's not a single hardware synth by them. Point made I guess.
And no one's pushing this towards Ego battles, it's just playfull joking, opinion sharing, and healthy talking the way I see it. Cheers to all.
I agree completely! There's only ONE softsynth that has my attention but do not know if it too would eat even my pretty powerful DAW PC for breakfast by Izotope, the IRIS....pretty interesting device. As far as hardware synths other than my Virus KB and KC, for diversity in sound I have found ways to make the Korg Radias sound incredibly nasty in a good way, Waldorf Blofeld Black Keyboard I consider in same league of the Virus as it too is pretty incredible when you start programming your own sounds, then there's DSI MonoEvolver Keyboard--another innovative monster, then in hardware rack: Waldorf MicroQ OMEGA, Korg Wavestation SR, Novation Supernova, and Waldorf Microwave XT, and lastly for it's versatile ARP and all the TR808 drums in a small package my only Roland, the SH32. All these synths have something unique to add to a mix with only limitation the occasional creative brain farts. HA! The Ti series is not an interest to me at this time because am also learning DAW Reaper and that may change if I get the Presonus Firewire Mobile Audio Interface, which comes with full version of Studio One. So once the DAW is mastered, then *may* look into a desktop Ti2 because studio real estate is about maxed if you count a few midi controllers that come out of closet:-)
Does Camel Audio's Alchemy eat CPU for breakfast too?
If that was meant to include me, I was only joking here. :confused:
It wasn't directed at any one person in particular.
TweakHead
25.11.2012, 02:32 PM
No, the Diva is a special kind of monster when ti comes to cpu hit. It sounds like an analogue machine if you close your eyes, at least for me, it's not marketing BS. One thing that's cool about it though, is that you don't actually need to work with the maximum quality, you can manage to use it more if you lower it, and only choose maximum when bouncing tracks. But Alchemy is a special thing for anyone who enjoys going deep in sonic possibilities, it's one of the very best software synths in my opinion, can take a lot of time to fully grasp though. I think software synths are cool doing their own stuff, and that's one of the cases where it really shines, it's really unique that one.
Also bear in mind that as far as the Batman movie OST is concerned, the actual synth used was a specially made version of Zebra combined with Diva's (another u-he synth) filters and some specially designed, for the occasion, modules. Let me remind you that even though that special package sounds great, no doubt about that, it comes with the cost of eating so much of one's cpu that it hardly stands a chance of becoming a go to synth for practical music making.
Yes, the synth was tweaked to accomodate Hans Zimmer's project according to his own liking (it doesn't mean it made it a better synth), but you can grab the tweaked version and all patches for a reasonable cost. It seems odd to say it can't be used for practical music making after it was used in such a prominent soundtrack. It might be a better choice for atmospheric film score type tracks than other musical genres, but regardless, if CPU usage is an issue simply bounce down the audio. This was the solution everyone suggested to me back when I owned a Ti2 and found that the polyphony barely kept up with a single instance of a VST, which my particular CPU can usually easily handle dozens of at a time, to simply bounce down to overcome inadequate processing power. I also own Diva (which has the more CPU intensive filters) and I find that my CPU handles it well enough for music making. I can never forget the Ti2 desktop choking on a factory Roland D10 bells patch, robbing notes after a few simple chords, because it was considered a complex patch.
TweakHead
25.11.2012, 02:48 PM
Yes, of course. And I was actually refering more to the Diva. I'm not sad about it, though, It clearly shows that we're in for having some super sounding synths coming in, on the software domaing, as cpu power is increasing. I think this whole thing is really just starting to take off. I mean, Albino used to be the thing not so long ago, and if you put it against one of those it's another story entirely. Not that Albino is a bad one. But Diva really is a cpu hitting monster if you ask me, more so then anything I've come across to this day. Have you guys seen the Lush 101 synth by d16? It seems to be another beast out there, which also has superb quality at the cost of a big cpu hit, the demos are really impressive - on their website. Check it out.
yeah, I can't really comment on the ti line, as I only have a virus C. would defenitelly love to have the extra features that have been added since, though. so what you're saying is that it's dsp power isn't enough still, right? but doesn't the synth engine make up for it?
I have not yet checked out Lush 101, but I've noticed it making a standing in the KVR rankings lately. I saw some bugginess being reported and wanted to give them some time to work that out before I evaluate...audio demos sound good though.
About CPU hit -- sometimes big performance gains come from optimizations after the plugin has been on the market for a while. u-He updated Diva and when they added multicore support, it did have a huge impact. They recently optimized Zebra farther as well. I think that ongoing committment to optimization is harder to achieve (or less likely to be achieved) in the hardware space, where a good portion of the profit is on hardware sales (thus more motivation to leave incremental power increases for the next generation of hardware gear).
I did feel the Ti2 desktop I had was extremely underpowered considering the cost. The other problem was with latency over USB, and just getting the thing to function reasonably in a DAW environment without nuking my workflow and requiring me to spend more time fidgeting with a single synth in order to make music. It was a nice enough sounding synth, but not really more so than some of my better softsynths.
Most of the cons I've described in these forums about the Virus would not apply to the Virus C at all; I've never even used one. My beef is mostly about the half-hearted commitment to total integration, the fact that it seems that folks who use the integration and VC successfully are rare, and the overall cost of the Virus line when compared against what's available in modern soft synths these days.
TweakHead
25.11.2012, 04:12 PM
Yes, I can totally relate to that. Getting a ti2 first hand is a big buck if it fails to deliver what's advertised. There's some people saying it's working better with the latest beta version of the software. I'm actually interested in that kind of feedback, as I wouldn't really like to go through the same kind of story you just described. Which reminds me, does the new oscilators work in stand alone version? The hypersaw, wavetables, granular, so forth and so on? And what about the fx? 'Cause it's got plenty more then on my C. I think I wouldn't mind to have on of the new ones if only I could manage to at least use the new features with the hardware. So are they only accessible from the software?
namnibor
25.11.2012, 04:22 PM
I have not yet checked out Lush 101, but I've noticed it making a standing in the KVR rankings lately. I saw some bugginess being reported and wanted to give them some time to work that out before I evaluate...audio demos sound good though.
About CPU hit -- sometimes big performance gains come from optimizations after the plugin has been on the market for a while. u-He updated Diva and when they added multicore support, it did have a huge impact. They recently optimized Zebra farther as well. I think that ongoing committment to optimization is harder to achieve (or less likely to be achieved) in the hardware space, where a good portion of the profit is on hardware sales (thus more motivation to leave incremental power increases for the next generation of hardware gear).
I did feel the Ti2 desktop I had was extremely underpowered considering the cost. The other problem was with latency over USB, and just getting the thing to function reasonably in a DAW environment without nuking my workflow and requiring me to spend more time fidgeting with a single synth in order to make music. It was a nice enough sounding synth, but not really more so than some of my better softsynths.
Most of the cons I've described in these forums about the Virus would not apply to the Virus C at all; I've never even used one. My beef is mostly about the half-hearted commitment to total integration, the fact that it seems that folks who use the integration and VC successfully are rare, and the overall cost of the Virus line when compared against what's available in modern soft synths these days.
That's also another reason I waited almost two years to buy my Waldorf Blofeld Black Keyboard because I have enough to digest in catching-up and learning and did not want to "play BETA-tester" for a buggy O.S.but it is completely or at least 99.6% stable IMO now. I have heard great things from people that own the Ti series but not one of them found any form of total stability or at least reliability to even dare want to use it live in any other form than stand alone. Each also stated the USB bandwidth issues and the price factored against DSP vastly underpowered.
Absolutely love the KC and KB though and know will be always discovering new sonic territories for a very long time. Perhaps Access needs to go to the next level alphabetically with Virus D with firewire and beefed up DSP power to have the option to use VC? Just speculating as anyone's "wish list" would be here.
The demo of Alchemy Player and the various soundsets they offer is alot of various synthesis methods to include additive, which is why am leaning that direction.
namnibor
25.11.2012, 04:25 PM
Yes, I can totally relate to that. Getting a ti2 first hand is a big buck if it fails to deliver what's advertised. There's some people saying it's working better with the latest beta version of the software. I'm actually interested in that kind of feedback, as I wouldn't really like to go through the same kind of story you just described. Which reminds me, does the new oscilators work in stand alone version? The hypersaw, wavetables, granular, so forth and so on? And what about the fx? 'Cause it's got plenty more then on my C. I think I wouldn't mind to have on of the new ones if only I could manage to at least use the new features with the hardware. So are they only accessible from the software?
Those were EXACTLY my next questions to post here!! We DO think alike...YIKES! Ditto...?
Yes, I can totally relate to that. Getting a ti2 first hand is a big buck if it fails to deliver what's advertised. There's some people saying it's working better with the latest beta version of the software. I'm actually interested in that kind of feedback, as I wouldn't really like to go through the same kind of story you just described. Which reminds me, does the new oscilators work in stand alone version? The hypersaw, wavetables, granular, so forth and so on? And what about the fx? 'Cause it's got plenty more then on my C. I think I wouldn't mind to have on of the new ones if only I could manage to at least use the new features with the hardware. So are they only accessible from the software?
Hopefully someone else can chime in on the answers to these. Its been several years since I bought the Ti2 (then returned it within my 30 day window), and some of these features I believe may have been added after that fact. Actually some of the reasons I returned it may have been addressed, but I have not seen enough evidence of that to be inspired to risk another purchase -- I keep waiting for the next model to be announced, or maybe at some point I will just get a snow so that at least I don't feel like I'm missing out.
Berni
28.11.2012, 05:07 AM
Those were EXACTLY my next questions to post here!! We DO think alike...YIKES! Ditto...?
Hey why dont you guys go buy one...you might have a better perspective on what you are talking about. Only around $1300 for the 'NEW dark star' version. Let me know how you get on ; )
And while I'm at it, this thread is about NAMM2013 & I have put my 2 large up there so what about the rest you. Predictions please...put up or shut up its getting boring :p
namnibor
28.11.2012, 09:30 AM
Hey why dont you guys go buy one...you might have a better perspective on what you are talking about. Only around $1300 for the 'NEW dark star' version. Let me know how you get on ; )
And while I'm at it, this thread is about NAMM2013 & I have put my 2 large up there so what about the rest you. Predictions please...put up or shut up its getting boring :p
Okay, I will bite...I ALSO predict that EVEN if Access releases a new, revolutionary product, BERNI will not be happy with it one way or another!! I already have a few thousand invested with Access and being a rather "old school" hardware kind of guy, the Ti function is not something I would utilize and I have all the wavetable areas covered with my Waldorf Microwave and XT and Blofeld. My next purchase will either be Waldorf's Pulse 2 now-slated for Spring '13 release or a pet unicorn--whichever comes firstly! HA!
Great to see the discussion has turned a little more cheerful and spirited.
My 2¢. Designable and morphable waveforms for both oscillators and LFOs along with designable multi-stage EGs like Zebra2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfgoQYVP010), which looks incredible, but with the sound of the Virus, would definately have me selling a good few things in order to grab one.
I remember Marc once stating that editable waveforms/wavetables was one of the top feature requests after the TI was originally launched, but that it would never happen on the TI|1 or 2 due to limitations of the hardware. Whether he was referring to the need for additional dedicated memory to be able to store such waveform data or similar I'm not sure.
Maybe even longer PCM waveforms.
Would love to see an additional dedicated modulation (step) sequencer or two, with selectable curves for each 'step', akin to NI Massive's "perf" performance editor. Would be amazing if you could also 'morph' from one sequence to another.
Some more filter emulations maybe.
Hardware wise I would love to see more hands-on performance modulation controls like an XY pad for scratching, tapping/gating, sweeping, etc.
And of course USB2 HighSpeed, or USB3.
I think these would be a genuine step up from the TI|2.
'Dear Santa...' ;)
I remember Marc once stating that customisable waveforms was one of the top feature requests after the TI was originally launched, but that it would never happen on the TI|1 or 2 due to limitations of the hardware. Whether he was referring to the need for additional dedicated memory to be able to store such waveform data or similar I'm not sure.
Would love to see an additional dedicated modulation (step) sequencer or two, with selectable curves for each 'step', akin to NI Massive's "perf" performance editor.
I can only guess here, but regarding it not being possible on the TI hardware -- if we look at the way waveforms are edited and morphed, or also perhaps the way MSEGs are edited (MSEG are sort of the Zebra equivalent of a modulation step sequencer with tweakable curves, lengths etc), and we imagine trying to do that without a mouse+keyboard and a nice screen and using simply synth knobs and display.... well it would not be very productive.
In the late 80s I had a Kawai K5 that attempted to do exactly this. The K5 was an additive synth and the harmonics could be edited similar to what you see in the Zebra demo video. Problem was, that using the hardware controls, this was quite a challenge. The K5 had buttons and a dial.. in general buttons navigated the various parameters, while the dial changed the value for that parameter. The large dial was actually very effective... much more so than knobs... at making very fine adjustments to values. However the reality of sculpting sounds is that while it was okay for making small tweaks to existing sounds, it would take forever to just start with a basic sound and build it up into something usable.
To the rescue of owners of the Atari ST (which was an awesome music production computer back then, it had built in MIDI ports), we had something called "Dr. Ts K5 Editor/Librarian" (they had Dr T editors for many different synths like the DX7). In the case of the K5, this allowed us to draw the harmonics and edit the other parameters using the mouse, which was an enormous productivity boon.
So, you can see where this is headed, there is the hardware limitation -- if only one of many limitations, it is a huge one.
But why not just put the tricky stuff into Virus Control? Anything thats cumbersome with knobs, put it in the plugin.
Well from this point on I can only speculate, but I personally think the whole software movement is seen as a major threat to the product line. If Access were to make critical features of the Virus available only in software, people would start wondering why they need the hardware at all if it's simply a way to play notes and chords and tweak some stuff realtime using cutoff pots or pitch/mod wheel.
Backup to the 80's again for a minute. In those days, CPUs were simply not fast enough to viably take the actual synthesis off the Kawai K5 and put it onto the same computer where the sound editing took place (heh! Imagine all of the timing issues that would solve if we could, since MIDI latency is always a bitch). However, in 2012, not only are the CPUs powerful enough to do this, but a single CPU in a typical teenagers $300 laptop has processing power that exceeds the DSP in the Virus. This was not the case a dozen or so years ago when the Virus was at the peak of earning its reputation.
So, I think software synthesis, that does not rely on an "expensive dongle" (essentially what I felt like my Ti2 was), is really enemy #1 to Access. When they can capitalize on reputation and the visual image of the Virus as an instrument instead of a low powered computer, they will continue to do so until the public catches on. Ride it out until its over, right?
What is baffling to me is why they do not embrace these times of cheap and powerful processing and connectivity options like Thunderbolt and seize the opportunity to take existing momentum with total integration to the next level. The technology is there, yet they seem to be sitting with their thumbs up their arses admiring what they created 15 years ago. I of course could be very wrong about that, but this is how it seems to me on the surface.
It is a somewhat dark view of things, and I realize its only one opinion and perhaps not correct, but it seems to me there is no future roadmap, no exciting plans, just the sit on thumbs and ride it out as long as we can mentality.
On a somewhat more cheerful note, the worst that can happen is that I'm dead wrong and some interesting new iteration of the Virus is announced soon. In that case I will be happy that I made such an idiotic prediction and we will all have something interesting to talk about for a change instead of discussing what's NOT going on at Access.
Berni
28.11.2012, 08:44 PM
Okay, I will bite...I ALSO predict that EVEN if Access releases a new, revolutionary product, BERNI will not be happy with it one way or another!! I already have a few thousand invested with Access and being a rather "old school" hardware kind of guy, the Ti function is not something I would utilize and I have all the wavetable areas covered with my Waldorf Microwave and XT and Blofeld. My next purchase will either be Waldorf's Pulse 2 now-slated for Spring '13 release or a pet unicorn--whichever comes firstly! HA!
Well you got that right, I doubt I would ever give access my money again except if they came out with something that Timo described & even then it would be a long way down the road.
Funnily enough I held off buying my TI for the longest time because when it was initially released the RTAS plug in format was not supported & I use pro tools as my main DAW. With hind sight I should have held off about 4 years which is the time it took them to get the bloody thing working properly. I love my virus but access as a company...not so much.
namnibor
29.11.2012, 03:54 AM
Well you got that right, I doubt I would ever give access my money again except if they came out with something that Timo described & even then it would be a long way down the road.
Funnily enough I held off buying my TI for the longest time because when it was initially released the RTAS plug in format was not supported & I use pro tools as my main DAW. With hind sight I should have held off about 4 years which is the time it took them to get the bloody thing working properly. I love my virus but access as a company...not so much.
My misgivings are actually with AVID and Pro Tools. Incredibly rude and elitist mentality customer service, if one could even call it that. AVID recently "divested themself" from all "pro-sumer" product lines to namely, M-Audio...they actually were shy of bankrupt and went through a reorganization that then sold M-Audio to same folks at that have Alesis and Akai...destinied to DJ gear and a slow death. AVID has lost alot of people to likes of Reaper because of the outragous priced updates and still 64 bit incompatibility issues, unless you are an HD user, and RTopriatorial format in which REWIRE only works under just the right and AVID Certified Systems. They may be "the industry standard" but think that will change rather soon beause with AVID no longer making any "MP Versions of Pro Tools", nor will anything Pro Tools 10 onward even be compat with "MP", they essentially have dusted their hands of the "pro-sumer" home-studio recording artists. Does not make sense because it's FROM the very "home studio musician" that the eventual "Pro" evolves from. My rant and I guess, Berni, I feel exactly the way you do about AVID as you do with Access. I am a video editing artist as well and AVID even cut their ties with the "Pro-sumer" in selling off AVID Studio this year. ADOBE has excellent customer service and frequent updates and like Reapr, those significant updates are free~!
namnibor
29.11.2012, 04:09 AM
I can only guess here, but regarding it not being possible on the TI hardware -- if we look at the way waveforms are edited and morphed, or also perhaps the way MSEGs are edited (MSEG are sort of the Zebra equivalent of a modulation step sequencer with tweakable curves, lengths etc), and we imagine trying to do that without a mouse+keyboard and a nice screen and using simply synth knobs and display.... well it would not be very productive.
In the late 80s I had a Kawai K5 that attempted to do exactly this. The K5 was an additive synth and the harmonics could be edited similar to what you see in the Zebra demo video. Problem was, that using the hardware controls, this was quite a challenge. The K5 had buttons and a dial.. in general buttons navigated the various parameters, while the dial changed the value for that parameter. The large dial was actually very effective... much more so than knobs... at making very fine adjustments to values. However the reality of sculpting sounds is that while it was okay for making small tweaks to existing sounds, it would take forever to just start with a basic sound and build it up into something usable.
To the rescue of owners of the Atari ST (which was an awesome music production computer back then, it had built in MIDI ports), we had something called "Dr. Ts K5 Editor/Librarian" (they had Dr T editors for many different synths like the DX7). In the case of the K5, this allowed us to draw the harmonics and edit the other parameters using the mouse, which was an enormous productivity boon.
So, you can see where this is headed, there is the hardware limitation -- if only one of many limitations, it is a huge one.
But why not just put the tricky stuff into Virus Control? Anything thats cumbersome with knobs, put it in the plugin.
Well from this point on I can only speculate, but I personally think the whole software movement is seen as a major threat to the product line. If Access were to make critical features of the Virus available only in software, people would start wondering why they need the hardware at all if it's simply a way to play notes and chords and tweak some stuff realtime using cutoff pots or pitch/mod wheel.
Backup to the 80's again for a minute. In those days, CPUs were simply not fast enough to viably take the actual synthesis off the Kawai K5 and put it onto the same computer where the sound editing took place (heh! Imagine all of the timing issues that would solve if we could, since MIDI latency is always a bitch). However, in 2012, not only are the CPUs powerful enough to do this, but a single CPU in a typical teenagers $300 laptop has processing power that exceeds the DSP in the Virus. This was not the case a dozen or so years ago when the Virus was at the peak of earning its reputation.
So, I think software synthesis, that does not rely on an "expensive dongle" (essentially what I felt like my Ti2 was), is really enemy #1 to Access. When they can capitalize on reputation and the visual image of the Virus as an instrument instead of a low powered computer, they will continue to do so until the public catches on. Ride it out until its over, right?
What is baffling to me is why they do not embrace these times of cheap and powerful processing and connectivity options like Thunderbolt and seize the opportunity to take existing momentum with total integration to the next level. The technology is there, yet they seem to be sitting with their thumbs up their arses admiring what they created 15 years ago. I of course could be very wrong about that, but this is how it seems to me on the surface.
It is a somewhat dark view of things, and I realize its only one opinion and perhaps not correct, but it seems to me there is no future roadmap, no exciting plans, just the sit on thumbs and ride it out as long as we can mentality.
On a somewhat more cheerful note, the worst that can happen is that I'm dead wrong and some interesting new iteration of the Virus is announced soon. In that case I will be happy that I made such an idiotic prediction and we will all have something interesting to talk about for a change instead of discussing what's NOT going on at Access.
Yes, Kawai broke it's back in making it's final synthesizer, the K5000S, which is an additive synthesizer that's actually pretty deep but otherworldly sounds abound. It literally broke their financial backbone because people did not want to spend the time it took to make usable sounds. I think Camel Audio's Alchemy comes really close to making that a better visual and easier programming interface, which is also kind of like morphing a Wavestation into the mix as well.
The evolution of softsynths *may* be also part of the motivator of the resurgence of real analog making a comeback. As Stephen King wrote, "Sometimes, they come back..."
Yes, Kawai broke it's back in making it's final synthesizer, the K5000S, which is an additive synthesizer that's actually pretty deep but otherworldly sounds abound. It literally broke their financial backbone because people did not want to spend the time it took to make usable sounds. I think Camel Audio's Alchemy comes really close to making that a better visual and easier programming interface, which is also kind of like morphing a Wavestation into the mix as well.
The evolution of softsynths *may* be also part of the motivator of the resurgence of real analog making a comeback. As Stephen King wrote, "Sometimes, they come back..."
I own Alchemy and think highly of it overall, but for whatever reason it has not worked itself into my music as much as some of my other soft synths. I know it does additive, but doesnt it require you to import the custom waveform rather than giving on the spot editing?
One nice aspect of Zebra is that you can easily redraw the harmonic timbres on the spot as you listen. I loaded up a few other plugins I own, and I was surprised how few of them really let you do this. KarmaFX does and Harmor does (Harmor is very interesting in the sense it lets you import an audio sample, then synthesize it, allowing you to edit the synthesized sample!)
One plugin I have called Morphine is a dedicated additive synth that really feels like the spritual successor to the Kawai K5 at least with regard to the way you edit sounds. However just like the K5 it feels like one of those synths that is very impressive on paper, but the real-world sounds you tend to get out of it in practice tend to leave you wanting. At least that's how I always felt about my K5...
TweakHead
29.11.2012, 11:11 PM
Will check those out for sure.. Thanks
TweakHead
29.11.2012, 11:20 PM
Back to topic.
As far as would-like-to-see-features, Timo's pretty much nailed it. That's the kind of stuff I'd like to see coming to the virus to. And let's not forget, the LFO's could get into audio range to, and be usable as FM sources. That would make a very special kind of beast eheh and how about having atomizer as an fx that could be sequenced for the synth parts, with arp as mod for example? stutter and glitchy stuff, extend the vocoder like that also, trigger presets from midi, like NI's Finger for Reaktor (since we're dreaming here, this are my 20 cents, I figured it's a bit more expensive...)
cheers
namnibor
30.11.2012, 12:01 AM
Yes, Timo has nailed great features. I had thought also of the X/Y joystick for wave morphing too, but found out something interesting from person have been communicating with at Dave Smith Instruments in that the reason you do not SEE very many, if any "X/Y Joysticks" on anything BUT Korg's predominately, is that Korg OWNS the patent rights to the X/Y Joystick in it's physical form--did not know about the use thereof in the virtual synth sense. This came up because some of DSI's team to this day were working for firstly yamaha then korg in developing the Wavestation synths after SCI went away and before DSI's incarnation--was talking to them about how assigning the sysex/midi cc's of certain parameters in Evolver to be manipulated by being assigned to the Korg Kontrol 49 I have used to control my Wavestation SR with would be a cool feature to have been incorp. in Evolver from onset....that's when it came up about how korg has a tight grip (mind the pun) on patent of it's use....interesting things one finds out down the walk of knowledge. BTW--if The Solaris Synth has an X/Y Joystick, Don has worked "intimately" with Korg for a while and given The Solaris having a very limited customer base. I just cannot get the same responsiveness out of an X/Y Touchpad for life of me!!
I mentioned this because it made me wonder how crazy it must be for any given softsynth to obtain an international patent on a given synthesis method and with that said, wonder if Total Integration has a fine gray line of seperation from "hardware controller" and "software"? A nerd of sorts would like to know:-)
Thats amazing that Korg could possibly owns a patent on something that I'm pretty sure the Wright brothers used to control the first airplane! :)
Seriously though, I would not have guessed... wonder when the patent expires?
I just realized, I've never even had my hands on a Roland D Beam to see how they compare.
With just about any DAW and soft synth, its easy enough to map to an Xbox controller, and it's quite responsive even with a wireless controller. Yet, even as easy as it is to do I find myself not doing that much.
TweakHead
02.12.2012, 12:19 PM
theres' a joystick in my novation controller - a remote sl mk2, that is. when I bought it I thought I'd be using the x/y pad on that a lot, but it's so unresponsive that I seem to forget it is there, actually. same thing with the included drum pads. but the joystick is actually pretty handy once you get used to it. I think those wacom pens with touch sensors on them can make great x/y controllers, though. there's people using the wii controllers as well, once saw some software which made it easy to assign stuff, but don't really remember the name of it.
but while I'm at it... I think these manufacturers should be making real good midi controllers, with excelent build quality and good features on them. most of them feel like cheap plastic and some features are misleading, like on the remote SL. as far as synths are concerned, I really like the way the virus is laid out, having access to most features really fast and the knobs feel good as well. but the automap feature was also a good idea, sort like the total integration of the virus, and only recently with the last updates are they catching up to what's been promissed - it actually works great and has a very nice interface nowadays, one can almost forget he's using a software and get lost on a softsynth easilly.
Noticed some of the midi controllers are now trying to be Ableton friendly, with coloured pads and stuff like that. That's cool for some uses, but I'd really like to have nice keyboard action and awsome knobs, maybe ribbon controller, motorised-fadders or at least nice and sturdy ones, and a layout that's thought out to be used with synths mainly. Most of this goes for the synths themselves as well. Now imagine that the next line of the Virus would be thought like this, a standard layout that you're used to, but you could actually load different synths on it from the sofware.
Or another company that would do this. All it takes is computer power inside the controller and a built-in audio interface. And you'd have a midi controller with dsp driven synths that would work in stand-alone for live usage, but more like an open source alternative. Or a platform like Universal Audio for synths. This could be great fun I think. Total Integration would of course just make it even more fun, so if Access has the patent for that and reads this. Could even be a paralel product. You'd have a buyer for something like this here.
namnibor
02.12.2012, 01:21 PM
theres' a joystick in my novation controller - a remote sl mk2, that is. when I bought it I thought I'd be using the x/y pad on that a lot, but it's so unresponsive that I seem to forget it is there, actually. same thing with the included drum pads. but the joystick is actually pretty handy once you get used to it. I think those wacom pens with touch sensors on them can make great x/y controllers, though. there's people using the wii controllers as well, once saw some software which made it easy to assign stuff, but don't really remember the name of it.
but while I'm at it... I think these manufacturers should be making real good midi controllers, with excelent build quality and good features on them. most of them feel like cheap plastic and some features are misleading, like on the remote SL. as far as synths are concerned, I really like the way the virus is laid out, having access to most features really fast and the knobs feel good as well. but the automap feature was also a good idea, sort like the total integration of the virus, and only recently with the last updates are they catching up to what's been promissed - it actually works great and has a very nice interface nowadays, one can almost forget he's using a software and get lost on a softsynth easilly.
Noticed some of the midi controllers are now trying to be Ableton friendly, with coloured pads and stuff like that. That's cool for some uses, but I'd really like to have nice keyboard action and awsome knobs, maybe ribbon controller, motorised-fadders or at least nice and sturdy ones, and a layout that's thought out to be used with synths mainly. Most of this goes for the synths themselves as well. Now imagine that the next line of the Virus would be thought like this, a standard layout that you're used to, but you could actually load different synths on it from the sofware.
Or another company that would do this. All it takes is computer power inside the controller and a built-in audio interface. And you'd have a midi controller with dsp driven synths that would work in stand-alone for live usage, but more like an open source alternative. Or a platform like Universal Audio for synths. This could be great fun I think. Total Integration would of course just make it even more fun, so if Access has the patent for that and reads this. Could even be a paralel product. You'd have a buyer for something like this here.
Yes, I have the Novation SL MKII 61 as well (in the "midi controller closet"...LOL) and that joystick/pitch stick is much different from Korg's simple stick-joystick design. I originally was going the ProTools route but ran into problem after problem with that Automap "Wrapper" and AVID/ProTools has the most atrocious customer service, if you call it that, and the M-Audio Fast Track C600 has a KNOWN hardware flaw but get this--even whilst on warranty, AVID was not willing to help even when they ADMIT it's not just a fix with software, hardware rather and refused to replace let alone refund...AHRRG~! So, I am now about to purchase the Presonus Firewire Mobile audio interface that comes with Studio One DAW full version and lots of free software.
Yes, the concept of the Sl MKII seems great but it's build quality is lackluster but will probably not use AutoMap and assign rather, midi cc's or it's also one of few midi controllers you can assign sysex and even nprn's to wherever and is reason I kept it, plus the aftertouch too, and it has two midi outs.
I think ANy midi controller should have at LEAST two midi outs so you are not trapped in just on chain of devices. I know Roland made some large, hammer-action controllers back in the '90's that had like 4 midi out ports. My Korg Kontrol 49 (discontinued) has two midi outs, aftertouch, an x/y vector control joystick (even has template to use with my Wavestation SR because it was also designed to work with Korg's Legacy Collection), plus it actually has all the sliders and knobs with same touch sensativity like Novation AND has 16 pads in a square with three different color coding and everything is assignable to midi cc/sysex being able to make your own templates and save them...however, with all that, Korg chose to go with a cheap feeling action keys....of ALL things to cut corners on, THAT is most idiotic! Korg made the Kontrol 49 before Novation or Akai ever released their VERY similar type controllers. Synth designers need musicians working with the engineers! period! I only keep my Alesis Ion synth because it IS a true monster and very easy to program but again, it has the worst key-action have ever experienced, with anyone whom owns/keeps theirs will all atest too as number one complaint. I keep it because it can sound SO MUCH like classic Moog/Oberheim/ARP synths with it's massive amount of filters and modulation routings.
Access certainly need not provide yet another midi controller amongst the minions out there but would LOVE Access to produce an advanced hardware polyphonic, multitrack sequencer with a solid state drive that could be used with the TI as well, making Ti able to be used say live without having to have a computer in live situation, yet being able to run several "instances" of Ti or ANY softsynth running...we could all come up with feature rich wish lists! I noticed that Korg continues to rerelease their classic synths in iOS for iPad, with their iMonopoly just released. Seems we are at a technology crossroads and it's probably never been a better time for we home studio musicians with so many options to fit anyone's workflow!
Berni
28.01.2013, 05:26 AM
My prediction for access at NAMM this year...old snow now gone slushy, black snow, get it ; ) & hopefully a full release of OS5...it's only been 11 months since they announced it FFS. Thats it.
Access loyalist's will defend them by saying that they are giving there synths extra features at no cost to them but guess what, access don't give a shit about existing owners (my experience anyway) they already have your money. The extra features are to try & sell the same TI they have been doing for 7 years because they no longer have the resources to develop a new synth. The whole 'darkstar' thing is like putting lip stick on a pig, it might look prettier but it's still a pig :lol:
I think I called it months ago...I seriously think that access's time is up..
namnibor
28.01.2013, 05:35 AM
...and the negativity record continues to skip...
Berni
28.01.2013, 05:44 AM
...and the negativity record continues to skip...
& the positive side is?
I think access should do a TI with at least twice the internal sample rate. More DSP power and double the price, and make sure it is real-time when in DAW land. Then the would have a product on their hands.
namnibor
29.01.2013, 10:11 AM
Perhaps Access could use Firewire for alieving any DSP bottlenecks as well?
Think I may have found the reason why the Virus updates have been scarce this past year or two.
Christoph Kemper (aka Kemper Digital), the founder and primary coder for the Virus ever since its first inception, has been working on high-end profiling amplifiers (http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/lang/en/p/166/do/Kemper_Profiling_Amplifier___Latest_News.html) for guitarists the last two years or so, the first of which was released in January 2012 last year. Several new versions debuted at the 2013 NAMM show (http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=15758) just a few days ago.
Guess the guy can't split himself in two, and has chosen to expand into the guitar arena for the time being. We may even have seen some of that technology trickle into the Virus in former updates (mainly OS v4), such as the stomp-box distortion models and speaker cabinet simulation.
Perhaps Access could use Firewire for alieving any DSP bottlenecks as well?
Firewire is nearly dead. USB v2 HighSpeed, or USB v3 would be the way to go to allow for the widest user-base.
TweakHead
29.01.2013, 04:24 PM
I think access should do a TI with at least twice the internal sample rate. More DSP power and double the price, and make sure it is real-time when in DAW land. Then the would have a product on their hands.
yes, and it should be able to speak with the users as well, so they don't get mad at him. Come on, isn't it a product yet? What is?
namnibor
29.01.2013, 07:35 PM
Think I may have found the reason why the Virus updates have been scarce this past year or two.
Christoph Kemper (aka Kemper Digital), the founder and primary coder for the Virus ever since its first inception, has been working on high-end profiling amplifiers (http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/lang/en/p/166/do/Kemper_Profiling_Amplifier___Latest_News.html) for guitarists the last two years or so, the first of which was released in January 2012 last year. Several new versions debuted at the 2013 NAMM show (http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=15758) just a few days ago.
Guess the guy can't split himself in two, and has chosen to expand into the guitar arena for the time being. We may even have seen some of that technology trickle into the Virus in former updates (mainly OS v4), such as the stomp-box distortion models and speaker cabinet simulation.
Firewire is nearly dead. USB v2 HighSpeed, or USB v3 would be the way to go to allow for the widest user-base.
Why are we still hard-pressed to find audio interfaces with USB 3 currently, (certainly correct me and give example as perhaps I have not looked hard enough), but yet Firewire and USB 2 seem to be the standard still? Heck, even SPDIF LIGHTPIPE was also put on my custom DAW PC just to have most bases covered...however, at the time when I had this made, Thunderbolt was not so much available on the PC side of things but moreso Apple. So, has USB v2 HighSpeed really come that far that for instance, I need not necessarily have to sell a kidney to get great latency without having to buy RME only? Hope so as that's my quest no.
That's really cool research info you came up with on what Mr. Kemper has been working on and for a small company, it certainly does not indicate Access "is dead" as some naysayers have been spouting here!
Why are we still hard-pressed to find audio interfaces with USB 3 currently, (certainly correct me and give example as perhaps I have not looked hard enough), but yet Firewire and USB 2 seem to be the standard still? Heck, even SPDIF LIGHTPIPE was also put on my custom DAW PC just to have most bases covered...however, at the time when I had this made, Thunderbolt was not so much available on the PC side of things but moreso Apple. So, has USB v2 HighSpeed really come that far that for instance, I need not necessarily have to sell a kidney to get great latency without having to buy RME only? Hope so as that's my quest no.
http://www.infekted.org/virus/showthread.php?p=301946#post301946
No USB v3 audio interfaces to date, however. A couple or so Thunderbolt, but only at the very high end (expensive).
namnibor
29.01.2013, 09:17 PM
Thanks, TIMO! Yes, the plethora of USB v2 on my DAW PC are indeed of the HIGH SPEED variety and they have indicator's that state 3X the power supply capability over "standard USB". So, in considering any new audio interfaces coming out of NAMM (Roland comes to mind but no idea cost), or any improvements on existing Audio Interfaces from NAMM announcements on the likes of PreSonus, et al, one needs not neccessarily have to sacrafice a limb to gain the well-touted RME variety, right? Will have to look at NAMM listings of AI of the highspeed usb variety. what I have read over and over is on the Firewire side, if you do not have a Texas Instrument chipset Firewire 400/800 on your PC, may not get same performance. Odd that something like Firewire would have a non-standard and i guess that's where as you have clearly showed, the term "Universal Serial Bus" is indeed here to stay. Thanks again and will look at rest of NAMM listings that kind of got buried by Korg, DSI, and Moog.
TweakHead
30.01.2013, 03:50 AM
You can also find RME's cards on usb connection. When thinking of thunderbolt, I remember Apolo's interface (by Universal Audio) has the option to use it, along with usb - and that thing also gives you access to their dsp based high end plug-ins.To my mind, it's worthy of the investment for those that can afford it, as it takes some effort out of the cpu for mixing, processing, etc, while providing even greater quality... But you get RME's incredible low latency even using the usb connection, there's a couple interfaces that let you use either usb or firewire, and one of them uses the usb connection only. It's rock solid quality...
But you'd probably get away just fine with something less expensive. It depends on what you want, really - both the number of connections, the quality of pre-amps and converters, the stability of the drivers. Search for reviews for that, don't go with the feature list of the manufacturers. But Roland (or Cakewalk) has a very solid reputation for audio interfaces, Motu does to, TC Electronics also, just to name a few...
TweakHead
30.01.2013, 01:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxXXf9U_CVk
found this one! there's also a description of its features here. since this guys were asked by DSI to design some patches for the new thing ;)
namnibor
31.01.2013, 01:22 AM
COOL! I think this is first time ANY synth has been able to create sounds of the likes of Microwave XT...those analog filters make ALL the difference!!! The orig. Korg Wavestation lacked real filter section and have read where many owners today use external analog filtering to try to achieve what DSI have here!!! This really fills one with terrible GAS!!!
Berni
31.01.2013, 05:57 AM
I think I'm going to wait for access to put out a new model before I buy another hardware synth :p
namnibor
31.01.2013, 09:11 AM
COOL! I think this is first time ANY synth has been able to create sounds of the likes of Microwave XT...those analog filters make ALL the difference!!! The orig. Korg Wavestation lacked real filter section and have read where many owners today use external analog filtering to try to achieve what DSI have here!!! This really fills one with terrible GAS!!!
DSI are doing it right combining wavetable with analog filters on the NAMM Prophet 12. Waldorf *only* placed real analog filters on their Microwave 1 and although the Microwave II/XT/XTk can make sounds only until NOW have ever hear ANY synth make, the Prophet 12, those analog filters make a night and day difference and that can be heard in A/B comparisons between Microwave 1&2 AND on DSI Evolver series where a real analog VCF LPF is on each R/L of stereo path and then of course Evolver has a digital HPF further down path on both sides as well.
That YouTube demo of sound design examples made for Prophet 12 demonstrate to ears how much an analog high pass filter ALSO makes a HUGE difference. THIS synth is appealing to other "Waldorfians" than myself and this DSI Synth is more of the evolution many would have liked to have seen come forth from Waldorf (the Blofeld is a VERY powerful and capable synth with many cool filter algo's--no complaints here).
I could see adding the prophet 12 a little later on down time's road and then I would be personally forced to decide which to hold onto, the virus KB or the KC for shear space...maybe!:evil:
TweakHead
31.01.2013, 12:36 PM
I'd keep the Virus C for the analogue filters alone... would never part from those!
namnibor
31.01.2013, 12:57 PM
Thanks! I actually in all honesty would keep BOTH of them because the keybed on both is phenomenally expressive and I am not into the debate of which version of Virus sounds better, etc., but whether the AD/DAC's, the Virus B has more BALLZ in the low-end, and the arp can be made to do some really cool things when you set the envelopes to where it is a motion-filled-drone, et al!! AS aformentioned, have elot on my plate to digest and learn, which is a great thing because am very much into aspiring to learn and apply those in the real world. That's what's SO great about well-written manuals such as the Virus and most of Waldorf, and DSI MonoEvolverkeyboard manuals--they take you through exercises and through repetition of these and mastering, then move onto another block. DSI Desktop did not have such as great manual but that Expositional Thesis Anu Kirk wrote definitely applies to all Evolvers and can only imagine the Prophet 12 having a well-written manualk for as deep and complicated it's matrix is. Thanks again for sharing that YT video on some of the sound designer's work and I BET Steffan Trippler (DocT) had his hand in some of the presets as well as he did ALOT with the Evolver's second set which was in OSv3 for the MEK and the Desktop Evolver.
I think I'm going to wait for access to put out a new model before I buy another hardware synth :p
Never thought I'd hear that from you.
Has someone hijacked Berni's account?
namnibor
31.01.2013, 02:52 PM
Never thought I'd hear that from you.
Has someone hijacked Berni's account?
Perhaps he is literally quite beside himself today?:rolleyes: :p
Never thought I'd hear that from you.
Has someone hijacked Berni's account?
I read that differently. Like he was saying he already has his synthesis needs so well covered that he can wait until the end of time, or a new Access synth release (in that order). :)
namnibor
31.01.2013, 03:46 PM
I read that differently. Like he was saying he already has his synthesis needs so well covered that he can wait until the end of time, or a new Access synth release (in that order). :)
So was it a new approach of "covert sarcasm"? :rolleyes:
So was it a new approach of "covert sarcasm"? :rolleyes:
Sort of. As opposed to real sarcasm, like "New Access Synth on the way" :)
namnibor
31.01.2013, 04:08 PM
Sort of. As opposed to real sarcasm, like "New Access Synth on the way" :)
THAT would be in the "sardonic" realm!:p I love dark humour and probably reason am not much of a fan of dumb American sit-coms. There was one in late 70's when firstly in highschool called "SOAP" that was off the wall....but prefer things along the line of "ABFAB" anyday or anything on RobotChicken, or Family Guy! Is there enough DSP left to tweak on the Ti if it does not already have the facility to import samples? Like capture and mangle across 88 keys a cat fart or fat lady in grocery store fart or pristene waterfall and mangle with Virus engine? Blofeld only allows single cycle waveforms....eeek!
THAT would be in the "sardonic" realm!:p I love dark humour and probably reason am not much of a fan of dumb American sit-coms. There was one in late 70's when firstly in highschool called "SOAP" that was off the wall....but prefer things along the line of "ABFAB" anyday or anything on RobotChicken, or Family Guy! Is there enough DSP left to tweak on the Ti if it does not already have the facility to import samples? Like capture and mangle across 88 keys a cat fart or fat lady in grocery store fart or pristene waterfall and mangle with Virus engine? Blofeld only allows single cycle waveforms....eeek!
The fart filter software additions for the Virus aren't slated until OS release v7, debuting NAMM 2017.
namnibor
31.01.2013, 05:59 PM
The fart filter software additions for the Virus aren't slated until OS release v7, debuting NAMM 2017.
Until NAMM 2017, perhaps you could use Akai's rectal air controller for those nasty midi cc's your harbouring!? :mrgreen: :twisted:
Berni
31.01.2013, 09:43 PM
I read that differently. Like he was saying he already has his synthesis needs so well covered that he can wait until the end of time, or a new Access synth release (in that order). :)
Yup thats about it, Lol :p I think my money is safe from harm. The only music purchase this year for me will be the upgrade from my Ableton Live 8 suite to 9 when it comes out, can't wait!
Until NAMM 2017, perhaps you could use Akai's rectal air controller for those nasty midi cc's your harbouring!? :mrgreen: :twisted:
At least now we all have visibility in to your posting signature and contextual use of "probing"... ("Just an alien living amongst humanity; we're almost done but need to do a bit more probing.")
;)
namnibor
31.01.2013, 10:58 PM
At least now we all have visibility in to your posting signature and contextual use of "probing"... ("Just an alien living amongst humanity; we're almost done but need to do a bit more probing.")
;)
Too many alien abductions whilst wearing headphones and perhaps some strange punch meant to only be sipped once from a dixie cup:p , HA! My mind is as dark as the Virus can go!
TweakHead
01.02.2013, 05:47 AM
The fart filter software additions for the Virus aren't slated until OS release v7, debuting NAMM 2017.
:p that's a good one
TweakHead
01.02.2013, 05:51 AM
Yup thats about it, Lol :p I think my money is safe from harm. The only music purchase this year for me will be the upgrade from my Ableton Live 8 suite to 9 when it comes out, can't wait!
Looks good, doesn't it? There's a new Cubase as well. No news from Apple making a major update for Logic though (they're also very silent about such things, but that's still the DAW I use, coupled with Ableton...)
Looks good, doesn't it? There's a new Cubase as well. No news from Apple making a major update for Logic though (they're also very silent about such things, but that's still the DAW I use, coupled with Ableton...)
I've got a Mac Mini here (maximum spec'd available in 2011) with Logic on it and not sure what to do with it. There are some things I love, I can indiscriminately plug in my Novation KB and Logic just picks it up any time. If I do that on the PC I have to make sure the KB is plugged in before I load the DAW. If I take a best of breed softsynth like Zebra and load a MIDI file into a DAW on the Mac and a DAW on the PC and ultimately output to MP3, naturally they will sound identical, so I'm not sure how much everything in between matters.
Apple is making all their money with phones and tablets and I have very little confidence in the Mac at this point. After seeing what they did with Final Cut, I have zero faith in Apple to keep Logic going forward. I've also got a couple of PCs, one sitting idle that topples the overall processing power of the Mac I have, and at the time I bought it it toppled anything available from Apple at any price point (despite costing much less). Havent kept up to see how that's changed.
Overall based on what I've seen over the last several years, I think I just need to learn Cubase on PC for my particular needs.
TweakHead
01.02.2013, 06:29 AM
Yeah, but nowadays Logic is like my second skin, I can work much faster with it, then on Cubase (which I've been using a lot, on a laptop, since I'm in between houses right now), where I always feel a strange handicap. I also think Apple's focus has been on their gadgets for far to long, the Mac Pro is a joke, in terms of features, with totally outdated processors on them - and they sell them for such a huge amount of money. And the latest OS updates brought some issues with them, some older plug-ins are not compatible any more - even though there's been a fair number of updates by major brands and all. But all that so you have better facebook integration and a menu that looks like an IPAD? Still using snow leopard here, not thinking twice about it...
And yeah, Final Cut was a joke. Plain and simple. If they do the same with Logic, I think I'm going to get myself a Hackintosh and use this version on it, while learning Cubase at the same time and say goodbye Apple for good. They're largely over priced, and I haven't been excited about them for far to long. It's all a big bull salad, if you ask me.
feedingear
01.02.2013, 08:47 AM
Only reason I got a macbook pro was for live performances with Cubase -had too many issues with drivers, mainly due to Nvidia GPUs (the old pc laptop i had was a gaming machine).
Its rock solid for djing and live, but way overpriced. Luckily my DJing paid it off over six months or so.
TweakHead
01.02.2013, 12:23 PM
Yeah, it's much more stable and therefore more reliable for live use...
TheHobbit
01.02.2013, 06:33 PM
I'm actually a little nervous about Access. When other hardware and software companies are adding and releasing new offerings in a prolific way, Access has been like the Mary Celeste this last year.
The customisable oscillator waveforms on Zebra2 look extremely cool too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfgoQYVP010
I am silently waiting to see what urs does with Diva as I know there is a hardware version on the horizon, well in the somewhat future :) Would prefer to see a zebra hardware tbh.
I am a huge fan of u-he as their software and sound fits in so well with the TI in my personal opinion.
Coupled with synthmaster which I would like to see in vst3 and a better gui.
Dissapointed with the Moog offerings, price wise too much I believe. Keeping an eye on the Macbeth analogues though...see good things coming from them in the future I hope, if they grow.
Releived theres no TI3 as i cannot afford it at the moment heehee.
TweakHead
01.02.2013, 06:54 PM
Also a big fan of U-He's here. They're stuff is amazing. Didn't know about their plans to go hardware, where have you read about that? Diva would actually make sense to evolve to hardware since most CPU's still struggle with it maxed out, while Zebra would be almost impossible to create a physical interface for, at least with the expectable price range of humans...
Also a big fan of U-He's here. They're stuff is amazing. Didn't know about their plans to go hardware, where have you read about that? Diva would actually make sense to evolve to hardware since most CPU's still struggle with it maxed out, while Zebra would be almost impossible to create a physical interface for, at least with the expectable price range of humans...
A physical interface for Zebra would probably be more like a DIY build a hardware synth project, with lots of wires and electronics pieces, a screwdriver and a soldering iron. :)
Berni
02.02.2013, 12:31 AM
Looks good, doesn't it? There's a new Cubase as well. No news from Apple making a major update for Logic though (they're also very silent about such things, but that's still the DAW I use, coupled with Ableton...)
Yeah man, a must have for any Live user I think. I have the 8 suite so the full on upgrade with the MAXX for live & tons of sound packs...50 + Gb's is only $299. About the price of a decent convolusion reverb!!! Take my money already :mad:
namnibor
02.02.2013, 12:49 AM
Yeah man, a must have for any Live user I think. I have the 8 suite so the full on upgrade with the MAXX for live & tons of sound packs...50 + Gb's is only $299. About the price of a decent convolusion reverb!!! Take my money already :mad:
Does this imply that Ableton Live works better on a Mac than a PC or same expectations for performance?
Does anyone have any experience with PreSonus Studio One Artist DAW? I ask because a new audio interface am considering, whether usb or firewire, PreSonus includes full copy of Studio One Artist.
namnibor
02.02.2013, 12:53 AM
The out of this world Izotope IRIS vst or can be ran as a standalone, is like the first (1980ish) CMI Fairlight Instrument, which then cost over $10,000. usd....look how far technology has come since and affordable as well. (affordable is a rather subjective/objective term though).
Does this imply that Ableton Live works better on a Mac than a PC or same expectations for performance?
Does anyone have any experience with PreSonus Studio One Artist DAW? I ask because a new audio interface am considering, whether usb or firewire, PreSonus includes full copy of Studio One Artist.
What I'm trying to figure out, as I re-do my music setup from the ground up (well, as much from the ground up as needed) is if there is truly an advantage to one over the other. I've mentioned how I don't like Apple's lack of commitment to cutting edge desktops (important for music due to thermal issues of high performing CPUs, and that's not gonna change IMO).
However at some point I want to get back into hardware. I still want to get a Virus TI2 again despite lack of innovation, if I can get it to work properly and consistently with regard to the integration over USB. If I can't accomplish that, there is really no compelling reason to focus on the Virus over other hardware toys, which is fine too.
But, if I end up focusing on other hardware toys, I'm gravitating toward the Apollo quad as an interface, as it seems advantageous there (but it's not cheap at $2500). Have you guys read the reviews from folks that have one? Most say single most important piece of hardware they own. If I can't get the TI portion of Virus working to my liking, I might as well just assemble my hardware setup from various synths that need little more than MIDI and audio outs to the Apollo. The Apollo DSP + plugins would solve one of the reasons for the Virus in the first place, to offload CPU processing somewhere else and supposedly provide fantastic sound for whatever vintage gear I decide to pick up on ebay and feed into it.
But remember all that is a backup plan. I much prefer the idea of being able to properly integrate the VC software with my DAW and be able to play into it relatively latency free, but it seems there is no universal agreement here on which DAW or even Mac or PC. I personally run a mean PC but I had major problems with the Virus and FLStudio. At that time feedingear and maybe others were having what was presented as perfect luck with Cubase on PC, but more recently he says Cubase on PC had driver problems and he went Mac but is disappointed with the choice. Berni is a Mac user and seems to have had experiences similar to mine. A while back there was a thread where it seemed like the majority of folks with Cubase on Win7-64 were having good luck. Other's have just concluded that Access is full of shit and due for a class action lawsuit over promises broken.
All I want to know is which DAW, and Mac or PC? Where is the TI portion of Virus proven to work? And if the answer is that they're all a gamble, even that info helps me plan my setup. I really don't mind to learn an entirely new DAW from the ground up even if it takes months to achieve full productivity, its only a hobby for me. Investing heavily in Logic is really scary considering Apple's history, but I'm open to that, Cubase, Live, Sonar whatever needs to be done.
But is there even an answer or consensus to this?
feedingear
02.02.2013, 05:08 AM
Should clarify MBTC - the driver issues were with a PC laptop, and conflicts with the nvidia GPU with ASIO drivers - nothing to do with the TI. I had pops and clicks and bad stuttering with both my MOTU and Traktor S4 as sound cards.
I'm not disappointed with the Mac in the slightest - its just you pay through the nose for stability. But crashing on stage is not something I could risk.
Berni
02.02.2013, 06:02 AM
I think the general consensus is use a PC & Cubase. Having said that I have found the VST version works pretty good right now in most VST host's, mac or pc. I would avoid the AU & RTAS versions like the plague. It's still a crap shoot though & a ball ache to get running no matter what you choose.
Should clarify MBTC - the driver issues were with a PC laptop, and conflicts with the nvidia GPU with ASIO drivers - nothing to do with the TI. I had pops and clicks and bad stuttering with both my MOTU and Traktor S4 as sound cards.
I'm not disappointed with the Mac in the slightest - its just you pay through the nose for stability. But crashing on stage is not something I could risk.
I've seen some weird audio conflicts on my PC, but trying to wrap my brain around what would cause a conflict between GPU and ASIO drivers.. There was a time with PCs where we had to deal with one card wanting a specific interrupt request or something but those days disappeared a long time ago. Anything you can describe is appreciated.
My Mac Mini for whatever reason, "sounds better" with same VST synths (meaning headphones plugged into the Mac audio vs plugged into the speaker headphone port on the PC) but there are too many variables there (specifically the sound card, settings of the driver, and the speakers themselves on the PC, the port etc) that I did not come to any conclusions there. I will say the novation KB pressure modulation seems to just work in a way thats more musical in Logic on the Mac, and feels more like a standalone hardware synth in that regard, but that's really talking DAW behavior out of the box (I think FLS doesnt pick this up until you map it for whatever reason).
But if you load a midi file into DAWs on either, using same synth (Zebra or Dune for example) and output to MP3 of course the end result is identical on either.
I think the general consensus is use a PC & Cubase. Having said that I have found the VST version works pretty good right now in most VST host's, mac or pc. I would avoid the AU & RTAS versions like the plague. It's still a crap shoot though & a ball ache to get running no matter what you choose.
I was leaning heavily toward PC+Cubase for the long-term. Once about 6-7 years ago when I mentioned wanting peace of mind in the longevity of my DAW (meaning the DAW becomes an instrument in itself to me, and the less time I have to spend re-learning new ones the better my workflow becomes).... someone said just go Cubase if you want peace of mind. Maybe that's what I should do, after all they are the creator of the VST standard.
But I'm always keeping an eye and ear open for real-world experiences with the Virus, and it seems to be like you said with any software from Access, a crap shoot no matter what you choose. I've recently considered just focusing on maybe getting an Apollo as the centerpiece, then buying used gear on the cheap (older Viruses like the C for example), not even worrying too much about trying to get VirusControl or similar working properly or even USB at all. I'd love to pick up something like the KingKorg or Prophet12, and forgetting about getting the Virus software working properly would help with that end goal.
I will add one interesting piece of info. I recently noticed on one of my PCs, I had intermittent results with some things that seemed to want full speed USB. For example a portable GPS and also a radar detector that gets updated with data from a central server. Over time I realized that the combination of cable and port I was using was making the difference in being able to update both devices in a matter of minutes versus half a day. So, to try to eliminate various USB 2 hurdles I picked up a USB 3 card and dropped it in. They both update instantaneously now. I'm tempted to pick up another Virus and see how my USB experience compares to when I had the Ti2 Desktop before, yet make sure it is plugged into the dedicated USB3 card.... could be part of my hassles were due to that.
TweakHead
02.02.2013, 10:25 AM
I think Apple's got the best laptops out there, but not so much the desktops. Stability on the Mac is due to having a Unix foundation, the system is pretty much closed (just like a playstation) so there's probably no issues with drivers, all of that and viruses (the nasty ones) is a thing you don't have to worry about. Also, they don't load as many shit on startup as a windows computer would - if you're not carefull, of course.
But things have been changing a lot, and windows seven has got tons better. So I guess you should have a dedicate usb buffer for the Virus, even though there's more connections there, you need to check it they're sharing bandwidth, as plenty of times that's the case. And have your stuff connected elsewhere - that probably helps a lot on the issues people usually report. I'm saying this and I don't even own one, but it makes a lot of sense.
I think one of the Virus TI2 advantages, rather then having 16 channels playing at once, is the versatility of it - and just the fact that it stores the patches you make on a project, so as to recall them when needed or to use some inside-the-daw automation seems a great advantage over the C line. I don't think of it as a means for saving CPU, like you would with the Apollo... Of course having a software synth that sounds (nearly) as good, like the Diva will have your PC claiming for mercy with just a few instances of it - if you're running the divine settings, probably a lot faster then that even... But it seems it's very unlikely to make proper usage of the 16 channels and have them running in sync for preview or something, specially if you use complex patches - and who doesn't?
Most people I know that use the Universal Audio's plug-ins are really satisfied with it. But nowadays, I tend to avoid overloading the system in the first place. As I get projects that reach something like 180 tracks. So there's the need for compromising a lot, rendering stuff to audio and stuff like that. I sometimes even bounce the whole mix down, open another project, and build some stuff to mix in when I'm sure I want to use CPU intensive processing on some part. After it's done, I just add it to the mix. Logic's got the option for loading channels from other projects and all of that - a pretty good option!!! So I guess it also depends a lot on your workflow routines, being able to both improve the workflow and not get the system to struggle even with highly complex material.
If you buy a PC and take care of it, it takes more maintainance, just having to defrag the disk every once in a while and all, you'll probably be fine!
Cheers
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