Ultranova - Got one! Here are my thoughts..

[MBTC]

I picked one of these up because:

1. I'm a former hardware guy turned software guy, but I still have gear lust and wanted to start dabbling in hardware again without quite yet blowing a wad on more expensive synths that I've been eyeballing
2. It was cheap ($600 new) / good specs for the price
3. Everyone that has one of these seems to love it
4. The software integration was intriguing, and unlike the virus VC software everyone seems thrilled with the software plugin.
5. I always liked the Supernova sound. I'm a weirdo that actually likes VA as much or more than true analog
6. I had listened to one at a music store and it seemed like a lot of synth for the money
7. The touch - knobs were interesting
8. I use a Novation MIDI controller already and a Focusrite audio interface, and think fondly of their gear

For a couple of days I just plugged it in worked through patches and programming using headphones. There is definately an "instantaneous" feel to a hardware synth that takes some fiddling to duplicate in a purely software environment. It could be mostly psychological, but when you play through factory patches on a hardware synth, most of them have been tweaked to take advantage of that board, with regard to mod wheel, aftertouch etc.

One of my "tests" of a synth is to create some sort of resource draining wet supersaw-type unison patch (or sometimes a string pad-like sound with a very long release) and then play a bunch of notes to get a feel for when polyphony starts dropping out (or in the case of some soft-synths, when the CPU meter gets rediculously high). I have to say here that the Ultranova fared better with this than I expected. I literally A/B'd it up against Zebra, which can be a monstrous supersaw beast if you don't mind parting with some CPU to get there. I put the Ultranova's 3 oscillators (unison x 4), fattented with some chorus and delay against Zebra's 4 oscillators running in "Eleven" mode (44 osc!), and tried to get the detune settings about the same on each. They were almost indistinguishable! With a long release envelope (which would not be typical for a patch like this anyway), there was a point where of course the Ultranova started dropping notes but it was at a point where Zebra2 would have been using an inordinate amount of CPU if used in a real track with other things going on, and would have most likely needed to be bounced down to an audio clip anyway.

Now the shocker? This was phenomenally better than the Virus Ti2 Desktop did in my very unscientific benchmarking experiments with polyphony a few years ago when I briefly had my hands on one. I did not perform the exact same steps, so this is an admittedly subjective evaluation, and thus nobody should quote me as saying the Ultranova is more powerful than the Virus Ti2. Also, there was so much wrestling with the VirusControl software and the driver at that time, that I did not have as much time to spend learning how to program the Virus as I already learned in a matter of hours with the trouble-free Ultranova, so it is by no means a fair comparison. I'm just saying that for a 3 osc synth with limited capabilities on paper, it can sound surprisingly fat and hold its own with polyphony.

Now shocker #2. The editor, running as a plug-in in FLStudio, just friggin works. No latency, no crashes, no excuses, it just seems to work and communicate beautifully with the synth over USB. Although again this is not quite an apples-to-apples comparison with Virus Control because I'm not using the Ultranova's built in audio interface like I was with the Virus, and I also am sending audio from the outs over 1/4 to the interface. The comparison here is not really to say the Ultranova software works and Virus Control doesn't, it's just that the out of box experience, comparing the Ultranova in 2013 to my experience with VC in 2009 is like night and day different. From what I've read, the VC problems still exist for most folks... what's going on, Access?

I've really only messed with this synth on the surface, but the editor is REALLY nice, and where things stand right now I'm quite happy with the purchase.

About the only negative thing I could say about it yet is that 37 keys really cramps my style for all but a few one-handed type uses. Just having another octave on my Novation remote makes a big difference in terms of actually putting down an arrangement. If I do get another Virus, I don't think I will get a desktop like I did before, but rather splurge for a 61-key.

{updating with new information... I did eventually upgrade my main controller to an MKII 61-key after this thread}

Back to the only negative, with a 37-key synth like this, you sometimes find that some patches sound good only within the limited number of octaves offered by the synth, maybe one up and one down. It is harder to make sounds sound great across more octaves, and most folks don't bother with a synth with this many keys.

I still have a lot to learn about it but if anyone has specific questions I'd be glad to try to answer.

[oscillator]

Nice purchase, i got a Mininova and i like it very much because of its real timeperformance buttons (as the touch sensitive knobs on the Ultranova).

The sounds are great, and the vst interface is a winner.

3 octaves are synth-friendly for me; sometimes it's better to use 2 keyboards for sound purposes, i mean 2 different sounds. But if you like to use more keys your second keyboard solution is the right choice.

If you would like to share some custom made sounds let me know.

[MBTC]

Kind of amazing value overall, aren't they? When you consider the sound itself, the software integration, the hardware features (real time tweak buttons/touch, etc), and overall quality, these boards might be one of the better values out there. Just the fact that I can put something like a reverby lead or a pad or something onto this can save me something like 15-20% CPU in a real mix without even bouncing down, which is more than the numbers indicate since my projects typically start flaking out if they get over 70% CPU or so.

For the keys, I've been getting by with 49 keys for my primary controller for years now, but I originally cut my teeth on 61 and that's always what feels most natural for me when playing, so that will be my target size for my next KB. I didn't get the Ultranova for a primary controller, I will still use the Remote SL 49 for that for now.

{updating many months later for reference... my old 49'er eventually crapped out!... MKII I have now seems better, we'll see though...}

I haven't really gotten around to creating many sounds yet but will touch base with you on swapping when I do.

I think you've got a Virus also, if I'm not mistaken -- curious which model and in your opinion how does the overal Nova sound compare and contrast?

[oscillator]

Yes i got a Virus C desktop and i love it.
Compared to the Mininova i found it to be a little more deep and obscure in some timbres. The pads made with the Virus are incredible.

On the other hand the Mininova got an interesting grit and overdrive that is quite unique to me. It reminds me a kind of analog saturation that is amazing on custom made sounds.
It beats the Virus C on the vst integration and the real time tweaking using the performance buttons.

The only weak points of my Mininova is the lack of knobs of course and the monotimbrality, but the Virus C and the Novas got strong timbres that could be very similar to each other, but also be different with their own distinct character.

[oscillator]

I forgot to say that i sold a DSI Tetra for the Mininova, and i would never go back. The Tetra is analog but retro sounding and a pain to program. And its sounds got many limits.

The Novas are powerful and eclectic.

[namnibor]

I still have my Novation Supernova 1 rack and keep it because it really is a capable beast and much different sound to Virus KC, so the variety works for me, plus the highly capable polyphonic 8 track arp allows for the versatile use of effects per part without limitations. Only other Novation own is my favorite controller, Remote SL 61 MKII with two midi outs...I really do not work well with a smaller keybed with only exception being 39 key DSI MonoEvolverKeyboard--that just works for it's massive sound canvas! Glad you guys seem to have no glitches with it's vst integration though.

[Timo]

In terms of sound, how much is the Ultranova like the original Supernova? Can you tell, from hearing them, that they are from the same family (like the Virus A, B, C are to the TI), or are they totally new synth engines? How does it fit in compared against the K-Station series, too, given they have similar feature sets?

Reason being, I checked out a few Ultranova audio demos and reviews on youtube and unfortunately I was disappointed with all of them. To me sounds like it has a kinda plasticky, digital, thin, phasey sound to it. I did however like the K-Station demos from a few years ago.

For example on the Sonic State overview...

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... the supersaw at 2:57 onwards on the Ultranova sounds horribly phasey and weak when dialing in the detune and hitting new keys (more specifically it resets the trig phase of all the multiple detuned saws at note-on each time, so you get a "peeow, peeow" sound every time you press a key as they all start in phase then detune away from each other, rather than starting them as free-running entities to begin with, regardless of detune amount) and I've noticed this undesirable artefact effect is common in other people's Ultranova demos too. My Korg Radias does the same thing and I hate it. Furthermore, there appears to be no compensation for the change in volume that is heard when all the saw waves are being phased triggered at note-on (i.e. when they're all summed, creating a large spike in volume at note-on, then decaying away as the individual saws separate), compared to whether they were all free running phase wise (always a more consistent, average level). Same problem with the Radias, so unfortunately I end up never using the supersaw oscillator type.

You say the Ultranova fairs better at supersaws than the TI|2? The original TI|1 had 80 voices of poly using the hypersaw, whereas the Ultranova has upto 18 note poly, so not sure how you figured that?

Monotimbrality is a bit disappointing.

However I really liked the idea of the extended LFO waveforms, some effectively as mini step sequencers. No idea why most synth companies fail to add more musical, creative LFO shapes like these, and instead restrict themselves to just the Sin/Tri/Sq/Saw waveforms (useful though they are, it would be nice to have more creativity and variety).

I do like the touch sensitive knobs, that's a good performance feature for triggering multiple modulations on cue.

Overall very good for the price, though. The price of Virus in comparison is ridiculous.

[namnibor]

However, for the price, one could get Blofeld, which has a much more powerful and versatile synth engine. After to listening to the review again posted that indeed had seen many when UltraNova first was released; compared to sound of the Supernova or dare say even the Nova tabletop, it sounds more like casio cz series reboxed and used the "Nova" name to give some sort of pseudo legacy. Six envelopes are great to have if the sound engine has a massive capability to sculpt it without sounding as Timo rightly said, VERY phasey. Perhaps Novation was simply going for mainly the DJ market? Too bad Novation seemed to drop original Supernova line after the Supernova 2 rack. Having said that, and knowing the Supernova 2 has many more great functions added than my original Supernova 1 rack, I would not trade it for any of the 'bastard grandchildren' of the 'Nova-namesake' post-Supernova 2. Novation do make awesome controllers (Remote SL MKII series), of which it seems touch sensative controls and exact same screen are used on the Ultranova, but as the review showed, those encoders looked like they would not take much abuse without trepidation; of which, the Remote Sl MKII does not suffer from. (a buddy of mine said as much as he even hated Roland's Gaia, he felt they easily could have been designed by same engineers...he owned both at different times for less than a week)
On a similar note that Timo mentioned about Korg Radias; it's definitely going to be sold or even donated to university music dept. as it is very underwhelming compared to other synths am working with and try as I may, the Radias ALWAYS wants to sound so fraking HAPPY and plasticky. The Virus's older engines still eat most of anything out there for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and scooby snacks inbetween!!:rolleyes:

[MBTC]

Yes i got a Virus C desktop and i love it.
Compared to the Mininova i found it to be a little more deep and obscure in some timbres. The pads made with the Virus are incredible.

On the other hand the Mininova got an interesting grit and overdrive that is quite unique to me. It reminds me a kind of analog saturation that is amazing on custom made sounds.
It beats the Virus C on the vst integration and the real time tweaking using the performance buttons.

The only weak points of my Mininova is the lack of knobs of course and the monotimbrality, but the Virus C and the Novas got strong timbres that could be very similar to each other, but also be different with their own distinct character.

Yes, it's that gritty quality that comes out of the Nova quickly that I think I like so much. On certain sounds it reminds me of a hardware version of Massive, although the programming UI is very different.

With regard to the nova vs. virus on pads, its hard for me to comment because I never judge a synth by the presets, I learned my lesson with a number of softsynths, where the presets sound blah but some of the aftermarket soundsets are amazing. I think the same is true with the Virus, default sounds on the Ti2 as I recall,....not so great, but I know the Virus can go sonically where I want because I've heard 3rd party sounds that do. So, the pads on the Ultranova presets are okay at best, but I've already played around with it to know that they can be fattened up quite a bit with a little tweaking. I plan to see what's available for aftermarket sound sets on this... right now it seems some of the soundcloud links from Novations website aren't even working, how are they going to sell those sounds?

There is definately a level of programming complexity here that is available via the VST that would be difficult to do same from just the knobs and display. That is one of the limits of hardware-only synths that I wanted to avoid, and why the Ultranova and Virus are higher on my wish list. Things like adjusting the slope of individual lines on the ADSR envelopes... I guess it is doable with knobs but it's not the same if you're reading numbers, requires a visual representation I think.

[MBTC]

I still have my Novation Supernova 1 rack and keep it because it really is a capable beast and much different sound to Virus KC, so the variety works for me, plus the highly capable polyphonic 8 track arp allows for the versatile use of effects per part without limitations. Only other Novation own is my favorite controller, Remote SL 61 MKII with two midi outs...I really do not work well with a smaller keybed with only exception being 39 key DSI MonoEvolverKeyboard--that just works for it's massive sound canvas! Glad you guys seem to have no glitches with it's vst integration though.

Since I've been playing with it, I've run into a few glitches with the VST but I'm not sure how many are related to the host (FLS), my vid card, etc. One is just that the VST sometimes does not paint the window properly sometimes (just a visual bug), which seems minor because I can close and reopen it to fix that (inconvenient but seems to work). The other is that a few times last night, my entire host crashed. I have seen that on rare occasion with a few softsynth plugins, and my remedy was to run the VST in bridged mode (which I guess runs the plugin in its own process so it can't crash the host). So far so good in bridged mode but I'm keeping an eye on it. One good thing about hardware synths is that even if you're entire host goes tits up, at least the synth still has all the sound data :) Of course it's not good if you're arranging a track and your synth brings down all of your recent project work with the plugin :).... As I said, bridged mode seems to fix that particular problem as far as I can see from here, and I'm not sure whether to blame the plugin or the host. I'm also using the Saffire audio interface instead of the one built into the Ultranova... I saw someone on the FLS forum say that they could only get the Ultranova to work via USB with its own audio interface, though it was an older post. Maybe I'm doing something unconventional here that's throwing a monkey wrench in, using USB to interface with the synth, but using the Saffire for everything else.

We'll have to see about long term VST stability but so far I'm still quite pleased.

[MBTC]

In terms of sound, how much is the Ultranova like the original Supernova? Can you tell, from hearing them, that they are from the same family (like the Virus A, B, C are to the TI), or are they totally new synth engines? How does it fit in compared against the K-Station series, too, given they have similar feature sets?


Unfortunately it's been a while (long time actually) since I've heard a Supernova, so it's hard for me to compare actual sound. Instinctually I think the characteristics of the Ultranova remind me of the Supernova.
Supposedly the Ultranova's engine is not exactly the same as the Supernova II but architecturally similar and supposedly much more powerful. Some folks claim to notice a more digital sound out of the Ultranova.


Reason being, I checked out a few Ultranova audio demos and reviews on youtube and unfortunately I was disappointed with all of them. To me sounds like it has a kinda plasticky, digital, thin, phasey sound to it. I did however like the K-Station demos from a few years ago.

For example on the Sonic State overview...


I think some of the default sounds are kind of thin but with a little experimentation I was able to get things to my liking, although your mileage may vary. When playing a synth like this, I can't help being biased by the overall price, so if I have to tweak a little more to get the sound I want, the price makes that less painful. Whereas if I pay five times the price for a Virus I have very high expectations for even default sounds and if I have to get deep under the hood to make something sound good to my ears it tends to tick me off.


... the supersaw at 2:57 onwards on the Ultranova sounds horribly phasey and weak when dialing in the detune and hitting new keys


Well one thing to keep in mind is that around that point in the demo, he has only dialed up a single oscillator and detuned it. To start approaching something that sounds more like a thick supersaw, take what he did, set Unison x 4, then detune unison... But...wait, you still have two more free oscillators to use :) plus a noise osc. So bring those next two osc in, detune each to maybe +/- 7 and maybe put one on a different octave, etc., then add some reverb, delay etc and you're going to have a much different sound, something like a proper dreamtrance supersaw that way.


(more specifically it resets the trig phase of all the multiple detuned saws at note-on each time, so you get a "peeow, peeow" sound every time you press a key as they all start in phase then detune away from each other, rather than starting them as free-running entities to begin with, regardless of detune amount) and I've noticed this undesirable artefact effect is common in other people's Ultranova demos too. My Korg Radias does the same thing and I hate it. Furthermore, there appears to be no compensation for the change in volume that is heard when all the saw waves are being phased triggered at note-on (i.e. when they're all summed, creating a large spike in volume at note-on, then decaying away as the individual saws separate), compared to whether they were all free running phase wise (always a more consistent, average level). Same problem with the Radias, so unfortunately I end up never using the supersaw oscillator type.


I'm not 100% sure if I can properly address this other than to say that in that demo he probably left the OscPhase param set to default which is 0 degrees. If you set it to "free" it removes that quality that I think you're talking about. The range is 0 to 357. It is one of those params that would is somewhat obscure and could be overlooked in many demos. You need to hit the Oscillator button, and use Next to get to the screen. I duplicated what the guy in the video did with one Osc, and set it to free and the initial click disappeared. Hope that helps?

You say the Ultranova fairs better at supersaws than the TI|2?


Oh, no I didn't :) Please read what I wrote again, I was afraid I was giving that impression and opening myself up a can of worms. I was just describing an overall initial impression of a couple of weeks I spent working with the Ti2. For all I know I may not have had something configured properly. It was just a comment about the out of box experience. The Virus started giving up the ghost on polyphony in rediculous places like Roland D50-ish bell sounds, which (again at the price point) left me disappointed.


The original TI|1 had 80 voices of poly using the hypersaw, whereas the Ultranova has upto 18 note poly, so not sure how you figured that?


Again I will refer to comment above and previous post, but one thing I noticed about the Ti2 is that it seemed every little thing I did seemed to affect "patch complexity", which was indicated by a small meter on the display. Once you introduce any level of complexity, it started robbing notes out of the patch left and right. I may be sticking my neck out here for the chopping block here, because I do not have specs available, but I honestly feel that the DSP in the Ultranova is roughly on a par, if not faster than that in the Ti2, based on very subjective and non-scientific evaluation that took place several years apart :) Not sure how to say it any more wishy washy than that... hehe


Monotimbrality is a bit disappointing.


Agreed, that could be an issue for some folks, it was considered prior to my purchase and is not an issue for my particular needs.


However I really liked the idea of the extended LFO waveforms, some effectively as mini step sequencers. No idea why most synth companies fail to add more musical, creative LFO shapes like these, and instead restrict themselves to just the Sin/Tri/Sq/Saw waveforms (useful though they are, it would be nice to have more creativity and variety).


Yes, one thing about the LFO sequence-type waveforms, I can't see that those are editable. I know most hardware probably wouldn't have them at all, but if you're used to working with softsynths like Zebra where you can literally implement any sort of modulation you could possibly draw with a mouse, the limitations of hardware are stifling to say the least, and I'm still unconvinced there is any real sound benefit to a hardware VA synth vs a good quality softsynth.


I do like the touch sensitive knobs, that's a good performance feature for triggering multiple modulations on cue.


Yep, they are awesome.


Overall very good for the price, though. The price of Virus in comparison is ridiculous.

Definitely. One reason I got this synth is to sort of dabble with "well integrated" hardware, to stick my foot back in the hardware synth water and decide how much of a financial commitment I want to make toward it. I've been somewhat spoiled with the ultra smooth workflow of softsynths, not having cables everywhere, not having to jump through hoops to get midi clocks sync'ed up and volume levels right and so forth. I think these synths are a phenomenal value. May or may not be for everyone's needs but it is certainly scratching the itch I bought it to scratch.

[MBTC]

This thread cooled off a little, but I would like to encourage any questions from anybody, because it motivates me to get under the hood and learn specific things faster. The manual for this thing is actually quite good and the synth parameters are surprisingly deep and varied.

A few more observations since my last post while reading about the Ultranova elsewhere:

1. Much of the (legitimate) negative feedback I've heard from folks who have tried this synth relates to lack of multi-timbrality. I can understand why this preludes using it as the only synth in one's arsenal; however, often on multi-timbral synths, using a single complex sound uses so many resources that using additional sounds results in such a polyphony reduction that it defeats the purpose. So, I say at the given price point, someone could always buy 5 of these things, keep two and a half band-members hands busy, and across them play 90 notes of 5 different complex patches and still have spent less than a Virus Ti2 keyboard. That's a silly scenario but it puts the value proposition in perspective.

2. Some of the demos I've seen on youtube have been "low-end limited" by the 37 keys. Typically when I hear a synth being played in a manner that I can be sure it's going to meet my needs, it is done with 2 hands that are 3 to 4 octaves away from each other. Without enough physical keys to do that, I think most of the demos I've seen are playing at higher octaves, thus result in a thinner sound. So there may be a kind artificial drawback there, that leads to a real drawback (see #3)

3. There appears to be very little aftermarket sound packs available for this synth. I can see a few potential reason for that... a sound designer probably wants a larger controller, which can be done but at the expense of being farther away from the knobs that provide the immediate interface and take advantage of the UN like the touch knobs, etc. So, much of the sound design would probably require lots of hands on with the plug-in. I've had pretty good luck with the VST but I've read from guys who did not have as much luck with other forms of the plugin, at least in the early days. I saw a post from Rob Lee, who is a very good sound designer, asking Novation to contact him about writing a sound pack for the Ultranova (I don't know what ever came of it except there is no Rob Lee sound pack for the UN that I know of). Why is this? Novation's handling of things or interaction with the community? I don't know, but there may be a combination of issues that resulted in not much aftermarket sounds being available for this synth. Good news is it is very easy to program yourself, bad news is the presets do not showcase the synth and there's not much available that will. It becomes a very DIY synth, which I think is fun but others may not.

4. The modulation is really good. But things like preset arp patterns are irritatingly limiting to me (to some extent the very editable gator effect could be used for this I think).

5. Price always seems to be listed in the $700+ range. I picked this one up for $600 out the door via Amazon, perhaps because its been out a couple of years (too bad Virus rarely drops in price)... and the Mininova can be had for even less. At those prices we're approaching the cost of the better softsynths but getting much so much more for the money.

For convenience, I rounded up some of the review links I came across, posting for posterity here. The synthtopia one has a good look around the plugin... Interesting quote from keyboard mag "Given what the present UltraNova does with just one part, though, I might go so far as to call it the deepest implementation of the virtual analog paradigm next to Arturia’s Origin—which lists for $3,200. This makes the UltraNova one of the most outstanding synth values you can buy":

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2012/07/09/novation-ultranova-synthesizer-review

http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/Novation-UltraNova/4414

http://www.emusician.com/gear/0769/novation-ultranova-review/140117

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb11/articles/novation-ultranova.htm

http://www.tonylongmusic.co.uk/keyboards-and-modules/novation-ultranova-a-supernova-gaia

http://www.groovypost.com/reviews/novation-ultranova-review

http://www.junodownload.com/plus/2011/11/08/novation-ultranova-review

http://www.residentadvisor.net/review-view.aspx?id=8544

[namnibor]

Nice selection of varied reviews there! I really wonder why Novation jumped in really no time at all and implimented a mini-me version with indeed twinkle-toe keys rather than offering a 61 key version of the UN?
Wouldn't it be an awesome thing for a company to make such a synth that to expand all you had to do was buy another, then remove an end-cap of each and connect the two for a 74 key, then-biTimberal synth?
I read some things on gearslutz where people actually found the computer integration/editor/vst part of UN to work best actually using the UN as the actual audio interface AND the Automap seemed to be pretty important for that to work well. They also said in that same thread that the UN is really USB-hungry in that when using UN as the interface via USB, it used most of the available bandwidth and to avoid problems, they actually were successful in using an A/C powered USB hub. (I forgot to save that gearslutz.com thread in faves). Read people really liked the action of the keys as well.;)

[MBTC]

Nice selection of varied reviews there! I really wonder why Novation jumped in really no time at all and implimented a mini-me version with indeed twinkle-toe keys rather than offering a 61 key version of the UN?
Wouldn't it be an awesome thing for a company to make such a synth that to expand all you had to do was buy another, then remove an end-cap of each and connect the two for a 74 key, then-biTimberal synth?
I read some things on gearslutz where people actually found the computer integration/editor/vst part of UN to work best actually using the UN as the actual audio interface AND the Automap seemed to be pretty important for that to work well. They also said in that same thread that the UN is really USB-hungry in that when using UN as the interface via USB, it used most of the available bandwidth and to avoid problems, they actually were successful in using an A/C powered USB hub. (I forgot to save that gearslutz.com thread in faves). Read people really liked the action of the keys as well.;)

About the Mini, I think almost all aspects are the same except lacks built in audio interface and of course is smaller and costs less. There are some aspects of the knobs and buttons I actually like better on the Mini, but I don't do well with small keys so I needed an Ultra.

Currently, I'm not using the interface in the UN, I run the audio to the Saffire Pro 24 (which is firewire) and a MIDI cable, but the UN is plugged into USB because the plugin needs it. That's one reason its not a fair comparison against the Virus with VC, because at that time (my brief stint with a virus) I was trying to do everything over USB, and its hard to tell how many of my problems were a result of that. Only drawback I can find to the current setup is one of MIDI sync, that changing the tempo in the DAW sometimes seems to take and other times I have to hit play to get it to send the new tempo to the UN (could be the software or just the way things are in the hardware world). That's not something I do every 10 seconds though.

I used to use Automap fairly frequenly with my 49 key controller, but over time I found myself using it less because of the load time it added to each plugin. The new PC does not yet have Automap on it so I have not tried that aspect. I haven't even really used the top row of buttons (right under the knobs) because they are apparently all designed for use with Automap. I guess the idea there is that for folks using the UN as their primary controller, it would be silly not to be able to use Automap like every other controller Novation makes so it was a must-have for some. I probably will not use the UN as my primary controller only due to # of keys, but the laptop-producers on the go will probably love that feature of it.

About the key-action, I think it's about what I want in a synth -- light (as opposed to weighted) for fast or percussive playing (as opposed for the piano feel). Some equate light with cheap but I think quality-wise it feels like Novations other controllers (good for what I do) and things like aftertouch feel right to me.

It's one of those synths that does some things well and other things not.

Sounds it does well: Edgy, punchy, gritty, screamy sounds, trance/hardstyle, dub filth etc. plucks, stabs, etc are good! Basses are good! Formant-vocaly sounding stuff is good and you sometimes stumble on extremely interesting stuff just by playing with moduling things like sync, detune. You can also modulate the waveform index (changing the fundamental sound type of the osc), slew the LFOs and other "interesting" things.

Sounds I would NOT use it for: 80's retro, true analog warmth, bread and butter, mega-layered texture sounds. You can achieve layers and textures by getting creative with modulation it but I don't think its the strength.

As some of those reviews said, one thing that's nice is you can make a single osc sound pretty fat then modulate a different osc with a completely different waveform to get a sound that would be like a multi in another synth, yet it seems to almost offer up the same polyphony no matter how complex you make things. Inside a DAW you could also just layer it with a softsynth or whatever to get whatever multi effect you want, but some folks are used to having that right on the board.

[MBTC]

Here is an interesting post I saw on KVR (http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5247491)....

The guy who says "I have the Virus TI2 Polar and x2 Ultra Novas.. i bought another Ultra Nova just for more parts as i love the sound. I wish Novation had made the Ultra Nova 4 part or more cause the sound appeals more to me than my Virus. The Virus is a great sound but the Ultra Nova's get more use. I hope Novation considers producing a new Synth with more parts/polyphonic in future." is none other than Rob Lee, who I would say is one of the better sound designers for EDM type sounds out there at the moment (or at least the type of sounds I aim for).

If you're not familiar with his sound sets, you can hear them at this link. I guess if you don't like his sounds, you may not agree with him about the Ultranova sound :)
http://www.roblee-music.com

Maybe I'll contact him to see why he doesn't make a sound pack for the UN. I read somewhere something about editing large numbers of sounds on it is a bit of a hassle even with the librarian, so maybe that's it. Also I know he was trying to contact Novation about doing one and was having trouble getting in touch with them, so maybe he's built up enough of a reputation that he can hold out for the big bucks :)... Given his talent and the lack of sound packs available for this synth, I'd think that would be a killer opportunity for him.

I also found it weird that Adam Van Baker owns a Virus but claims it doesn't get as much actual use in his music as Zebra and Massive. He even wrote a Jupiter 8000 inspired plugin but has never down a soundset for the Virus to my knowledge? Weird.

[MBTC]

Namnibor asked in another thread for an update, so I thought I'd post here:

I've finally downloaded the free sounsets for the Ultranova and went through them. Most of the sounds therein aren't particularly impressive, although there are some neat emulations of Supertramp, The Who, and the intro to Fly Like An Eagle (Steve Miller Band) that really show what a good sound designer Daniel Fisher is, or maybe how versatile the Ultranova can be. For a lot of people the lack of third party sounds available for this synth could be a real drawback. Its a good synth for sound designers and folks that like to come up with their own stuff, but sometimes it's nice to have a large library of starting points for any given genre. My main motivation for getting it is to see how well I can get accustomed to a hardware+software environment after having been so spoiled by the fantastic workflow of software-only. Even doing things like sysex import/exports introduce what seems like a weird workflow interruption after not having dealt with it in years. But I'm still very pleased with the purchase... some of the Daniel Fisher sounds show that the touch knobs should not be neglected when creating new sounds, as that's one of the things that makes the Nova synths unique. It also adds a greater expectation for the sound designer I think -- i.e. do something useful with the touch knobs for each sound. That could be intimidating for some designers with regard to how much extra work should be invested into perfecting each sound. The good news is that if you're the type that likes to create sounds from scratch, there's tons of fun to be had with all the modulation possibilities (and realistically you don't always really have to start from scratch, you can always start with one of the built in sounds as a starting point).

[namnibor]

Nice! Yes, I have often used an existing sound from a rom bank on Virus KC as a starting point but what's so nice on KC is with any given preset or your own sound, all the LED's make it easier to see how a sound was made and deconstruct it. Perhaps you should task yourself to make an outstanding sound bank or two for the ultra nova and then sell them since you say there's not much out there and ca$h-in?:D

[MBTC]

Nice! Yes, I have often used an existing sound from a rom bank on Virus KC as a starting point but what's so nice on KC is with any given preset or your own sound, all the LED's make it easier to see how a sound was made and deconstruct it. Perhaps you should task yourself to make an outstanding sound bank or two for the ultra nova and then sell them since you say there's not much out there and ca$h-in?:D

That thought crossed my mind, although right now I'd be happy just to find the free time to learn the beast very thoroughly, and it probably sounds more enviable than it really is but I need free time more than I need more money. Also it would be hard for me to sit down and create a bank of something like 50-60 sounds. I'd get too distracted with each individual one, and the next thing I know I will have spent the bulk of the time trying to build a track around a single sound and tweaking the sound to fit that mix rather that creating lots of good sounds.

[namnibor]

That thought crossed my mind, although right now I'd be happy just to find the free time to learn the beast very thoroughly, and it probably sounds more enviable than it really is but I need free time more than I need more money. Also it would be hard for me to sit down and create a bank of something like 50-60 sounds. I'd get too distracted with each individual one, and the next thing I know I will have spent the bulk of the time trying to build a track around a single sound and tweaking the sound to fit that mix rather that creating lots of good sounds.

Focus, Focus, Focus!!!:rolleyes: I know what you mean because when I sit down with DSI Mono Evolver Keyboard, it's as if I create a wormhole, space/time distortion and have to force myself to get-up to drink water let alone lavatory breaks! What is that Ultravox song, "And Time Stood Still"?

[namnibor]

That thought crossed my mind, although right now I'd be happy just to find the free time to learn the beast very thoroughly, and it probably sounds more enviable than it really is but I need free time more than I need more money. Also it would be hard for me to sit down and create a bank of something like 50-60 sounds. I'd get too distracted with each individual one, and the next thing I know I will have spent the bulk of the time trying to build a track around a single sound and tweaking the sound to fit that mix rather that creating lots of good sounds.


Hey! I thought of you right away when firstly opening an email from Novation today (I own a Supernova 1 Rack), and this link I am posting will take you to the first of two FREE SOUNDPACKS for both Ultra/MiniNOVA and they are actual patches from the pretty awesome still IMO, of the mighty SUPERNOVA!!! You had mentioned the lack of soundpacks and Novation seem to be in full gear...http://us.novationmusic.com/soundpacks

I think to get the second free soundpack all you have to do is LIKE them on Facebook. Marketing, you know but hope this works for you!
Lastly, I recently read that on the UltraNova, you can save with each patch rather than Globally, your expression pedal midi cc modulation assignment. I think we can do this on all strains of the Virus as well but I think it was on homerecording.com where someone's problem was answered in regard to this because that person *assumed* their expression pedal settings would carry over from one patch to another and in case you did not know, thought to toss that in the "care package of a message here":-P I am pretty sure they said you can set the max/min amount/values of travel of the pedal as well rather than just a 1-127 general value!!
Cheers!

[MBTC]

I greatly appreciate the note, although these sound packs have been out for a while, and I do already have them. I think Novation released them around the time they released the synth itself, and they touted an ongoing commitment to sounds which they unfortunately have not really made good on. In my opinion they are sort of along the ilk of "preset material", in the sense that they are good to have as a starting point but they do not begin to exploit the possibilities of the synth.

The Daniel Fisher sounds are kind of an exception, because there are what I would call some seriously fun novelty patches, like a redo of the intro riff from Fly Like an Eagle (Steve Miller Band), that unique boing sound from Life's Been Good (Joe Walsh) and other 70's analog fun. He really is quite good at understanding what makes a sound and recreating difficult ones.

I did exchange emails with Rob Lee some time back, and he said he is currently on the road traveling but when he gets back, he will resume work on his UltraNova sound set which is due out in July. That's exciting if you're into EDM sounds because he has done some fantastic work on soundsets for other synths. He has had a love-hate relationship with the UltraNova. He liked it better than his Virus Ti2, enough so to buy two of them and send them off to have them recolored (complete with letter screen prints) in black and white (the blue did not work with his studio color coordination apparently)! Then he got frustrated with them because of no unison spread feature (with the Ultranova you can accomplish similar using other mechanisms, but it upset him anyway) so he sold both those boards. He then decided he missed them and the great VST editor so he ordered two more :) So, not being able to be 100% the release of his sound pack will happen, I'm just crossing my fingers but at the same time not holding my breath. This synth is one that most folks will be able to start with a preset as a starting point and create lots of great sounds themselves. Still, I'd like to see at least one great soundset so it will be fantastic if Rob decides to complete that project. I know of at least one other prominent sound designer that is considering doing a soundpack for it, but he has not yet purchased one so I'm not counting my chickens on that one until I hear more from him.

[namnibor]

Sorry about that, as the Novation email certainly made it seem as if those were *brand new* and on another note, in same email they touted a brand new Novation Forum here;;;http://forum.novationmusic.com/?utm_campaign=Novation-News-April-2013&utm_content=103899946942&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Emailvision

*BUT* they state if you had signed-up before March 26, your sign-in credentials were no longer valid. I certainly do not recall finding a Novation Forum to glean tips from fellow Supernova 1 users a few years ago and what I have compiled came from various forum searches. We must keep in mind that the internet is in all honesty, rather young in mass access and no longer in the "modem age", and technology is vastly evolving faster than the human condition, which at times almost seems devolution when one watches local news anywhere and see 12 thru 16 year olds shooting people over a cell phone or stealing copper, parts of cars--all to feed drug habits, of which, in the 80's you never heard of a pothead killing anyone for their box of twinkies...we were always PREPARED for the inevitable next morning of waking up with melted M&M's and bright colored spots on body from falling asleep with the feedbag of M&M's:p !!
Sorry, a bit of a digression there!
Anyway, it's a reminder of how tech and modem days used to be when looking through the Waldorf FTP Server Archives hosted on electro-music.com, and on that note, Waldorf has absolutely no interest in hosting an official forum and although they DO make some awesome synths, they are not so much into the communicative thing or customer service thing at all...weird!
I digress a lot lately! The M&M thing DID happen to me once:cool: !
On a viral note, has their been *any* peep or hint at what or even if people at Access are up to now that the Kemper Amp Simulator project is finished and retailed? Please let it be they had a bonfire of everything USB 1.1:rolleyes:

[MBTC]

About forums -- to me it hasn't really changed that much. I used to run (non-music related) BBS systems back in the days of the Atari 8-bit, then MS-DOS based forums in the early-mid 80s, and we had things like CompuServe, The Source, etc. where vendors would create discussion forums. To me, not much has changed except the way we access them.

Funny but true story... Back when I used to run one BBS, there was a screechy voiced 12 year old kid who would dial into my board every day, and incessantly ring the sysop chat buzzer to chat with me. He was a bright kid but could be annoying at times (actually I was kind of a kid too, I was only a little bit older than him). I talked to him on the phone more than once (dont remember why, probably computer troubleshooting stuff). His handle on the board was Dave the Wave. We never really talked music, I didn't know he was into it.
Well, he grew up to be Dave Dresden of the famous duo "Gabriel and Dresden", who are considered two of the most successful North American born DJs/producers of electronic music during the last decade. He even kept the name "Dave the Wave" as a DJ!! I really like some of their work, I think they split up for a while and did solo projects and are now back working together. I did not keep in touch with Dave but I'm quite sure he mellowed out after puberty :)

As far as where the Virus is headed, I'm really not sure. I would like to see them come out with a mega-powerful Virus that really justifies the price point and breaks the current polyphony barriers, but the TI line uses dual Freescale 56321 DSP processors, and to my knowledge Freescale hasn't even made a more powerful chip, so it could be Kemper is waiting for a major advancement from his chip supplier before he can provide a major advancement in the Virus line? I'm only guessing here. It could be a potential challenge, for example, to fully utilize a third or fourth DSP and still retain backward compatibility with existing Virus patches. I don't think a non-backward compatible Virus would do well these days against a softsynth market that has evolved tremendously since the Virus line (even the current models) were introduced.

[TweakHead]

Yeah, but I don't think most plug-ins can compete with even the Virus C, let alone the range of options (and quality of them) in the TI. But I think their problems are twofold: first, they probably have to deal with bandwidth over usb connection, and probably the capacity of the chips to. But I'm one of the few who actually thinks that the changes between the C and TI - specially considering the additions on the latest updates - is huge and added many more possibilities to the Virus. Maybe so. But two extra envelopes, extra filters (the comb filter sounds very good), extra oscillators, character, cabinet emulations, reviewed distortion algorithms - all of that assignable as modulation destinations. The Nord Lead 4 has just been announced. It doesn't even have two filters you can use in series, it has less polyphony than the Virus C, envelopes are unipolar, just two previously assigned, and a simpler one for modulation - like on previous versions. And I don't see people bashing on that synthesizer as much as they do to the Virus. With just user drawable waves for oscillators and lfos, the Virus would be able to do what Massive does in terms of modulation (which is why it's so famous) and so much more. They're not far behind anything out there. LFO into audio range, selectable for FM usage would be nice to. Fade in and out on all of them to.

I'd like to see them implement better analogue emulation in the likes of Diva as well - if the extra power becomes available for more complex algorithms that are more demanding.

[MBTC]

Maybe it's that Nord Lead and some other hardware synths seem geared toward the live performer, and that while the Virus is probably never in doubt as a live synth, as a studio synth it boasts "total integration" even in the product name itself, and therefore I guess expectations are that integration is what it says it is. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the Nord Lead even tries to have the same level of integration, and is roughly 30% cheaper. I really don't remember hearing much bad press about the Virus C and prior models. It wasn't until "TI" came along as a feature, and I guess many felt that they were slow in delivering on what was promised or at least in some cases flippant toward the customer about it. Maybe "it's there" in terms of stability these days? I am certainly keeping one eye on the Virus and can see myself potentially caving in and buying one. Every now and then I look around for a good deal on a used C or KC so that I can re-enter the Viral waters with a little less of a money commitment.

I can't be sure this explains the bad press with the Virus, but I will say that during my career in software development, I've learned whenever you add a new feature, you have to make sure it works and works well. If it works some of the time or doesn't work as advertised, it would have been better to not add it at all and keep the feature set lean.

Now that I'm on Cubase for Windows, with a USB 3 card that I'm sure is not limiting the throughput, I'm very tempted to get another Virus and see how the integration works after some years of maturity.

[MBTC]

Hey! I thought of you right away when firstly opening an email from Novation today (I own a Supernova 1 Rack), and this link I am posting will take you to the first of two FREE SOUNDPACKS for both Ultra/MiniNOVA and they are actual patches from the pretty awesome still IMO, of the mighty SUPERNOVA!!! You had mentioned the lack of soundpacks and Novation seem to be in full gear...http://us.novationmusic.com/soundpacks


I have to apologize, when I saw this post the first time, I went to Novation's page and saw the existing soundpacks only (might have had a cached version of the page maybe?) I read the reference to SuperNova sounds but did not see the reference on the page to the new soundpacks.

This is indeed new so I stand corrected! I will also be downloading this of course (have not yet done so).

Great to see they are still moving forward with support for the product line! (Now only if I had a Supernova to compare so I could A/B the sounds to be sure they're authentic :)

[MBTC]

Update - sounds downloaded and they are VERY worthwhile! Much better than presets, more fun but also form useful basis for new patches and do a better job of showing the UltraNova off. There are only 64 sounds, but most are very good and there's supposedly more SuperNova sounds on the way. The default presets do tend to exploit the new features like touch knob animation better than the SuperNova patches, but it makes sense that this would be the case as the SuperNova didn't have that feature.

Anyone demoing an UltraNova or MiniNova in a store should demand these sounds be loaded onto it before deciding!

[namnibor]

Update - sounds downloaded and they are VERY worthwhile! Much better than presets, more fun but also form useful basis for new patches and do a better job of showing the UltraNova off. There are only 64 sounds, but most are very good and there's supposedly more SuperNova sounds on the way. The default presets do tend to exploit the new features like touch knob animation better than the SuperNova patches, but it makes sense that this would be the case as the SuperNova didn't have that feature.

Anyone demoing an UltraNova or MiniNova in a store should demand these sounds be loaded onto it before deciding!

Glad those are useable! If I remember correctly, you got the FIRST free sound pack and when you re-registered for their new forum and/or "liked them" on Facebook, you then received another sound pack, but I could be wrong as my synapses are snapped these past few days:rolleyes: and because I too have been doing a complete studio ergonomic makeover, my happy blue Supernova 1 Rack is currently resting in a box. However, the best word that even Novation used to describe it's sound is pretty right-on is, "Liquid", in that very smooth/juicy filters for a VA but not the Virus' classic "Darker" sound, but again, not the violently craptasitic HAPPY sound a Korg has no matter how hard you try to make it even a tiny bit brooding. Hope that made sense!
I do not have the extended 44 voice SN but the very last OS update increased it to 24 and considering the 8 track, multi-timbre, polyphonic Arp can also drive external stuff with it's comprehensive midi specs--it's sound as well is reason I decided to hold onto it.
Sounds like the UltraNova is very programmable "under the hood" and too bad they did not offer a larger keyboard version of it and went "mini-me-keys" direction instead...I just do not understand appeal for extremely mini keys!:confused: I'd rather see innovation in having more upward near casing on each key, a touch/slider sensitive pad to go where after touch has never gone before or something:idea:

[TweakHead]

I think it would be interesting to see a rack version of it!

Question: can it do FM? I know the SuperNova 2 could, along with multi-trimbrality with separate effects per part and more voices then this one - somehow it still feels like a more powerful beast to me...

[MBTC]

Glad those are useable! If I remember correctly, you got the FIRST free sound pack and when you re-registered for their new forum and/or "liked them" on Facebook, you then received another sound pack, but I could be wrong as my synapses are snapped these past few days:rolleyes: and because I too have been doing a complete studio ergonomic makeover, my happy blue Supernova 1 Rack is currently resting in a box. However, the best word that even Novation used to describe it's sound is pretty right-on is, "Liquid", in that very smooth/juicy filters for a VA but not the Virus' classic "Darker" sound, but again, not the violently craptasitic HAPPY sound a Korg has no matter how hard you try to make it even a tiny bit brooding. Hope that made sense!
I do not have the extended 44 voice SN but the very last OS update increased it to 24 and considering the 8 track, multi-timbre, polyphonic Arp can also drive external stuff with it's comprehensive midi specs--it's sound as well is reason I decided to hold onto it.
Sounds like the UltraNova is very programmable "under the hood" and too bad they did not offer a larger keyboard version of it and went "mini-me-keys" direction instead...I just do not understand appeal for extremely mini keys!:confused: I'd rather see innovation in having more upward near casing on each key, a touch/slider sensitive pad to go where after touch has never gone before or something:idea:

Not sure about the Facebook "liking", but if that's the case they can shove that scam, I'll get them some other way :) Those marketing ruses get on my nerves, and I think I'll let some other sheep cave into them; I wont.

Not quite sure what you mean by mini-me-keys, the UltraNova has full sized keys, it just only has 37 of them like the TI2 Polar. The MiniNova has smaller keys and is designed for those that want things more portable and at a lower cost (although the UN has dropped in cost since originally released so they are now only about $100 apart at street prices). I do see a lot of newer bands with tiny key synths on stage so there may be some sort of fashion trend behind it all that you and I aren't "getting".

About the sound, I think the UN has a characteristically gritty, in-your face sound that loves to go to obscure if not naughty places in your mix. It can be tamed easily and behaves when told, but it's kind of like always knocking at the door to the cage ready to bust out. It's been a long time since I've heard a SuperNova so it's very difficult to properly compare, but the first SuperNova patch bank does invoke memories of the SN to my ear.

The touch knobs on it, I think, are actually significantly more innovative than a touch slider, because of how many of them you can manipulate at once. One of my Cubase controllers has a nice touch fader (looks a lot like the ones in the Akai Max controller), and it's really just what it says, a fader with touch (good for controlling mix volume mostly). The touch knobs on the Ultranova actually lean you toward a different playing style that I have not seen on any other synth.

[MBTC]

I think it would be interesting to see a rack version of it!

Question: can it do FM? I know the SuperNova 2 could, along with multi-trimbrality with separate effects per part and more voices then this one - somehow it still feels like a more powerful beast to me...

No, FM is just one of those things they've thus far decided not to do on this synth. They could add it, very easily to an OS update (there's nothing about the hardware to prevent it, just another menu option and UI changes to the VST) and maybe they will in the future, but for now that's one item it's lacking.

[namnibor]

That's what I meant, the "MiniNova"...and realize I am off-base because totally different knob configuration and such with mininova.
I actually was going to ask you if there's a limit to how many parameters you can influence/change via the touch or is the engine such that it does not glitch if say you made a very long release and then just went mad touching knobs and such?
Lastly, is there any glitching in aforementioned scenario when connected in the vst? Do you HAVE to use the integration to deeply program or is all that available as a stand alone synth?

[MBTC]

That's what I meant, the "MiniNova"...and realize I am off-base because totally different knob configuration and such with mininova.
I actually was going to ask you if there's a limit to how many parameters you can influence/change via the touch or is the engine such that it does not glitch if say you made a very long release and then just went mad touching knobs and such?
Lastly, is there any glitching in aforementioned scenario when connected in the vst? Do you HAVE to use the integration to deeply program or is all that available as a stand alone synth?

It's fully designed to be a stand-alone synth with emphasis on live play, you don't have to use the VST at all and you can get to all functions through the menus, but the display is just a one-liner at a time, so certain things would be infinitely more productive in the editor... For example the modulation matrix, you've got 20 slots with two potential sources (not counting the knob assignment) and one destination for each slot. Using only the synth you'd have to page through one mod slot at a time, on the editor you see 10 slots at a time (two pages of a grid) so it's more productive that way. Plus, you've got visualizations of things right there in front of you, like lets say LFO3 is a sine wave and you're using that as a source to modulate a filter on OSC2, well the actual rate of that sine wave, whether its free or synced etc is not going to be visible on that same line of the LCD display while making that mod slot assignment, but on the editor you'd have a graphic representation of the sine wave at the top of same screen to help keep things in context.

This could be irrelevant with simple modulations, but think about a situation where you get many of those going on (for the sake of knob assignments), and now remember that you can do things like modulate the rate of LFO3 with LFO1 via another mod slot! Lots of modulation options means lots of opportunity for losing track of what's what, and it's much easier to keep up with on the editor. You would just be menu diving more without the editor.

In terms of glitchy behavior with lots of weird knob modulations on patches with long release, no not at all, you can go nuts assuming no other technical issues going on. The only thing that feels slightly glitchy (impaired by MIDI itself I guess) to me are things like patch browsing through the editor, that require synchronization between the VST and the synth. You don't have to do that if you don't want though. And at the end of it, it's still smoother than my experience with the Virus editor.

It's not to say you couldn't encounter particular bugs. I saw someone saying that selecting certain waveforms in the editor was crashing the VST for him in Cubase. I've had no such problems in Cubase so I suspect he had something else going on, or maybe they've just patched it since (it was an older post).

[MBTC]

Also looking back, not sure if I answered your question about # of params and knobs. Total of 20 mod slots, one knob per slot, 8 physical knobs but you can have a knob listed more than once (i.e. you could have a single knob modulating 20 different destinations if you wanted). Not sure if that answers your question though? Also in addition to the 8 knobs you still have aftertouch, the mod wheel, the "big" knob (good for filter sweeps) etc.

[MBTC]

I've discovered something about this synth that seems odd to me, like a design flaw that's based more in hardware than software.

If I'm playing a sound and I have the "big knob" of the Ultranova set to cutoff filter (what most of us are likely to use it for), and during play I reach up and give it a firm and rapid counter-clockwise twist (for expressive reasons, to "dry" the cutoff quickly for effect while playing), I've noticed that the faster I twist it, the more likely it is to actually INCREMENT the filter cutoff than decrement it. For example if cutoff = 20, decrementing it too fast might actually leave you with a value of 24! In other words working the knob a little more slowly (for a more typical filter sweep) works as expected, but the knob cannot respond properly to extremely rapid motion.

A little disappointing considering its something I would consider as an acceptable fluke between (and admittedly I have not yet tried the latest OS update to see if it made a difference), but something like that takes away from "hardware as an instrument" vs. a softsynth + midi controller.

For example, if I just bind Automap to one of the pots on the MKII to the cutoff knob on the Ultranova VST, then do a rapid counterclockwise motion on the pot, the result is pretty much instantaneous... the filter never INCREMENTS when I'm rapidly telling it to DECREMENT.

Maybe this is just a fundamental flaw in the Ultranova hardware, or something they will fix in an OS revision......
....or maybe it's a fundamental flaw in the notion that interaction with dedicated hardware is better somehow than a MIDI controller of your choice + VST?

I would say this is something specific to the Ultranova, and maybe this particular buggy behavior is, but it actually pales in comparison to some of the nightmares I read about here getting the Virus to work properly. I guess the soft-synth world has spoiled me, I'm used to things now working as advertised.

[namnibor]

I have a thought and I in NO WAY mean to inadvertently insult you superior knowledge above my own when I suggest this perhaps rather obvious oversight that's worth looking into.

Knowing from what I have read on various user posts and sound designer review comments on the UltraNova, that for instance with expression pedal assignments to particular CC's they are set-up in Global Menu *per program*, which is nice.
With that said, could it just be like on our other advanced synths such as the Virus series, Waldorf Q, and DSI Mono Evolver Keyboard, that you have perhaps deeper in Global Menu an option when using knobs with the UN in standalone to set those knobs to relevant, jump, as well as like on my Q where I can set-up per program OR globally whether turning knob incredibly fast will rather than stepping, be exponential? These kind of things are sometimes set to a default unless you make those changes yourself and very well could have been in a recent O.S. update you have already done or just something the user manual did not touch on but *may* exist already in a sub/sub menu page.
Just a thought and worth mentioning because your solution may well be there and if not, I am learning that Focusrite's Customer Support is really impressive. (my Scarlett 18i20 arrived today and can say am very pleased that their dedicated support for their products for a much larger company that Dave Smith Instruments is just as attentive and impressive as they have proven to be):-D Meaning, like DSI, Focusrite encourages user feedback and very often implements musician's suggestions if it's an oversight that is incredibly beneficial in their gear's user workflow!

[MBTC]

I am definitely planning to investigate the issue a bit more. My few encounters with Novation tech support (one was Automap related, one was UltraNova related) did not seem to reflect the good customer support you've experienced on the audio interface side (I don't know if Novation/Focusrite support teams are merged or still treated as two different divisions, etc).

The issues I've put in with them take weeks to get even the simplest of resolutions resolved, because every time I respond, I have to wait 4-5 more days for their response, so the issue drags on and on. My most recent question (about Cubase running as admin) ended up being resolved by me, they were not even on the right path and they had already played pass the buck with the issue, transferring it from one support rep to another. Other issue with the Ultranova they did help me resolve but it still took way longer than something so simple should have.

Guess its a case of YMMV.

[namnibor]

I think that even though parent company may or may not be Novation, there seems to be a distinct level of separation between the divisions and the brand newer web design and forum areas do not make that easily discernible as it was previously. The much longer ferrite A/B USB 2.0 cable arrived from Newegg. (Focusrite included a 3 Foot one and for a "rack mounted interface" it seemed a bit ridiculous to me for say the average user) Hoping this is my only gripe. Standard IEC power supply is nice. one thing do not really need another of is a line that looks like a snake swallowed my cat in the middle AND a wall wart, like ALL my Waldorf gear has consistently had. FYI--Focusrite has revamped almost entire Scarlett Line, even just last week officially discontinuing the Scarlett 18i6 to be replaced with new 18i8. I was even considering the 18i6 and would have been highly peeved and glad did my research thoroughly.

[TweakHead]

Could be just a faulty knob you have there. A friend of mine had a similar issue with a brand new Blofeld which got replaced and then everything worked fine. Don't know if they're the endless encoder type of Knobs or not, but I think these have a tendency to misbehave like that sometimes.

Anyhow, rapid tweaking is something everyone should do when test driving new hardware instruments I think.

Also know that Novation and Focusrite used (at least) to be one company in GB. They seem to have grown more independent from each other now - could be just an impression, never really checked.

But... is there any relationship between them and KRK? they seem to use their monitors in all their stands, demos and videos (not just them btw)...

[namnibor]

@Berni: Wanted to let you know came across a notification that Novation has a major update for the UltraNova's Vocoder and you can read about it here:
http://en.audiofanzine.com/analog-modeling-synth/novation/ultranova/news/a.play,n.16297.html?utm_source=weekly_newsletter&utm_medium=e-mail&utm_campaign=Weekly+newsletter+for+July+20%2C+2013

Cheers!

[MBTC]

Did you intend the msg for Berni or me? (I don't believe he has an Ultranova)

But thanks for the headsup... I did see the update a couple of weeks back. I haven't gotten around to installing the new vocoder patches that go with the 1.3 update, though.

[TweakHead]

Yes, seems to be a good product getting even better with updates. Main difference to the Virus is probably that it doesn't support Multi. Could also be the reason they manage to work flawlessly, no? If only they added FM capabilities to it, like the former SuperNova's used to, would make it an even more interesting product. I think it probably compensates for that with the new performer features, no? You're able to assign multiple parameters to a single knob with this thing, right? And change stuff with just touching a button (at least on the mini I saw a video with that), that must surely open some wild possibilities...

[namnibor]

Did you intend the msg for Berni or me? (I don't believe he has an Ultranova)

But thanks for the headsup... I did see the update a couple of weeks back. I haven't gotten around to installing the new vocoder patches that go with the 1.3 update, though.

Yes, so sorry~!:confused: My brain has been somewhat melted from an all night Evolver session and took me a while to find my way back into this dimension!:p
Yes, it seems Novation is doing a lot to support newly added features and even soundsets, as the former original sound sets for it based upon original Supernova.

[MBTC]

Yes, seems to be a good product getting even better with updates. Main difference to the Virus is probably that it doesn't support Multi. Could also be the reason they manage to work flawlessly, no? If only they added FM capabilities to it, like the former SuperNova's used to, would make it an even more interesting product. I think it probably compensates for that with the new performer features, no? You're able to assign multiple parameters to a single knob with this thing, right? And change stuff with just touching a button (at least on the mini I saw a video with that), that must surely open some wild possibilities...

I don't hear it mentioned often, and its not true FM synthesis with operators etc, but the Ultranova does let you load FM wavetables (not custom ones, you can't import, but a large selection of them nonetheless) as the oscillator source, and because of the ways you can combine and modulate, the total timbre possibilities are WAY beyond just saw/square/tri/sine etc. Many folks though have asked for FM in a future update, and really there's no reason they couldn't do it except maybe to open the door for a future instrument that's a FM purist synth (i.e. real FM, not subtractive with an FM modulation possibility). Or maybe they figured it would just complicate the hardware, require more buttons/knobs and complicate the UI of the VST, making the Ultranova cost a lot more. Did you ever program a DX7 or TX81Z from the synth (soft synths that make things easy like FM8 don't count :)? If so you can imagine what I mean... the Ultranova would cost $2000+ with all the extra knobs/buttons or interface considerations at least )...

About the knobs -- as far as whether you can map multiple modulations to same knob for touch purposes, yes. But if you mean for purposes of turning the knob? I'm not sure about that one but personally I don't think its useful, because you'd be restricted to sending the same amount increment to different parameters. Yes you could get some interesting FX I guess but it seems very limiting. It may be possible but I think you'd have to use Automap in the DAW rather that achieve that with the synth away from a computer. Oddly enough, even though the Ultranova is very tightly integrated with Automap (to the point that many of the buttons on it don't work without it!), I only use automap with pure softsynths. With the Ultranova I can just manipulate everything on the physical keyboard so I have not bothered with Automap on that board.

What you could do, however, and I think its more useful... you can do things like say Env6 modulates Env3 and Env5 modulates Env2, where Env3 = filter amt and Env2 - resonance amount, then you could say modwheel increments Env6 by one amount and Env4 by a different amount. Yes you could also map the modwheel directly to cutoff and resonance at the same type (notice I said modwheel and not THE TURN of one of the knobs), but my point with the above example is you can do other things with those Envs that have nothing to do with mod wheel but rather velocity (or maybe you just want to control it all with mod wheel).

Now, back to the knobs. The knobs are "ok" for turning but they aren't pots, they are endless clicky things, which is okay on a synth of this price point. But where they are great is the TOUCH of the knob, and in that case yes you can map same knob to multiple targets, so if you touch knob 1 it triggers both Env6 and Env5 or just animates cutoff and res to whatever amount specified.

But, the knobs themselves are sort of like perky cheerleader nipples begging you to fondle them :) In practice, you'd find yourself using that feature of the Ultranova a lot... even though its just an on-off toggle of a modulation (you still have aftertouch, velocity, expression pedals if desired etc as options if you need more), the toggling on-off of various modulations turns out to be tremendously creative when you are using four fingers at once in various combinations (just depends on what you set them up to do).

One of the things I think the Ultranova shines at is providing a slight amount of feedback, distortion, sync-madness etc (or something more easily described like gating or delay) when fondling those nipples. Just like the expressiveness of being able to physically put a guitar closer to an amp to get a touch of feedback, it brings something visceral to the actual act of playing the Ultranova for those who choose to use it. Really adds character and inspiration to real-time playing.

I'd love to be able to use the touch knobs on my MKII to control the Ultranova touch knob modulations (just because its my primary and the keyboard is bigger), but I'm not sure if its possible, so normally when I want sound out of the UN I just play it directly.

[MBTC]

Yes, seems to be a good product getting even better with updates. Main difference to the Virus is probably that it doesn't support Multi. Could also be the reason they manage to work flawlessly, no?

Forgot to address this part. I can only offer a guess here, but my hunch is that the single timbrality of the Ultranova versus multi-timbrality of the Virus is not the source of the integration issues with the Virus. I only say that because if it were the case, it seems that trying to integrate the virus with a single patch would work solid as biscuits, but then when you went multitimbral you'd see things start to wig out and behave badly. That was not what I saw with my short stint with the Ti2... latency was present even with a single simple patch from what I can remember?

Multi-timbralism seems like would only affect integration with regard to flexibility to audio outs over a given data bus. In other words, if you want one patch to go through stereo channels at a given bit rate that's one thing. If you want multiple patches combined into the same data channel (or think of data channels as just basic audio outs but with the caveat they are converted to digital bits and sent through something that has a capacity limit) that's another thing entirely. Or if you're happy to just have all things crammed into a single mono audio out, things get much simpler :) of course that's not the flexibility most would clamor for at the $3k price point of the virus I guess?

Not sure if that makes sense, but I'm saying I think the Virus is trying to allow potential to push more data through USB2, while not properly implementing USB2. The Ultranova may or may not be properly implementing USB2, but it doesn't matter because it's not allowing as many stereo signals through? I will re-highlight my note above that my experience with the Virus Ti2 was quite lame with regard to latency on a single patch, so I would say either this theory is not the answer, or Novation simply understands how to implement USB data transmission and Access doesn't?

The Virus I tried before seemed to hate my PC with a vengeance and refuse to talk to it effectively. The Ultranova seems to have been born and bred with the PC in mind, communicating openly.

[namnibor]

Nipples and knobs! :p

Is that "seeming like it's bred for the PC" nature of the UN both with and without use of Automap? Like you, I have the Novation Remote SL61Mkii or variation of thereof keys, and although I really like *most things* about this controller, I do not like the fact that just because I choose to use "Advanced" rather than Automap, that then I am left with some buttons and such that are obviously only hardwired to Automap rather than ALL being freely assignable as I would love whilst making my own template.
A note of caution about Automap: although this did not happen to me, it did recently happen to a grand old fart on the Waldorf List that had his hardware Microwave 1 rack unit hooked-up via midi to a Novation Remote Controller, which was of course hooked-up to his PC via USB (Microwave 1 does not have USB to be clear), so rather than what he SHOULD have done, is made a midi chain via his audio interface's midi in/out and Novation Remote Kbd Controller, and the Microwave 1, rather than having the USB of the Remote connected at all.
What happened after a lot of sorting was that this guy had sound sets he paid a lot for in files on his PC rather than just using the 256K memory card and it's obvious space limitations, but that's what the Microwave 1 utilized for external saving/loading sounds. He also mistakenly had the Automap button pushed rather than Advanced, (controller was new to this person), and what ended-up causing his hardware rack unit's internals to "drool like an old pope" was when he attempted to load some of those internal sound sets through whatever DAW he was using, Automap had added "wrappers" to those very sound sets and was like giving a synth a "Mickey"!
From what I gather, most people seem to use a lot of software/vst's rather than hardware other than the Virus, of course here; but wanted to just give a heads-up that "Automap" can do odd unexpected things and this was sorted with help of Novation and another long time Waldorfian and now all is well and advice was for him to have those very sound sets stored on a totally separate drive and when using advanced mode to leave USB out of equation and use aforementioned midi configuration instead.
This was really odd behavior and have no doubt that Novation are constantly making Automap better in each update. However, this ALSO illuminated the other gripe I have about the user manual pdf for the SLmkii, in that it goes to great length to explain Automap function but as far as "Advanced", it's still rather vague. Have played the keys on their Impulse line of Controllers in a store and have to say they are CRAP-tastic keys when compared to the Remote SL Mkii's and so now, coming around to being on-topic, since you are able to use Automap very well with your other softsynths, are ANY of those vst's multi-timbre capable and does it work successfully (Automap) whilst using the UN or SL Mkii as your controller?

Sorry so long! My cat decided it was time to wake me up earlier than normal because went to sleep a few hours early due to negating sleep from deep Evolver synthesis night previously!:D

[MBTC]

Nipples and knobs! :p

Is that "seeming like it's bred for the PC" nature of the UN both with and without use of Automap?

I have not used Automap in conjunction with the UN, I use it for everything else. Maybe one of these days I will try that, but so far I haven't really needed it. Automap comes in handy when using a single controller to control multiple disparate instruments, so I think if you're using the Ultranova in setup where it's the primary controller (most likely the mobile types who are using an UN or Mininova + laptop), then you could use it to easily control other VSTs, to the point (I believe) where their param values actually can even show up on the display of the UN (something useful in a combined HW/SW environment, I suppose). In other words while it may be capable of more, I think of the Automap mode of the UN as being redundant if you already have a primary MIDI controller with Automap. In terms of using Automap to control just the UN by itself, in my case I can't find a need since the UN direct hardware interface is there when I need it. Being able to touch knobs on the MKII and send them as touch modulations to the UN would be a plus if possible, but not sure if it is.

About multi-timbrality of soft-synths -- almost of them are "infinite timbrality" in a number of ways, at the most basic level because you can load as many instances as you want of them, limited only by CPU power (in the case of some synths on a powerful PC, this could mean having several dozen instances). You can layer those instances simply using the DAW software, effectively creating your own multi-timbral instrument by combining various others. For example if I wanted to beef up the UN a little I make a complex pad by layering the nova plugin with Zebra and Dune. I've now got a very unique sound, probably thicker than would come out of a single synth by itself, and in effect have just solved the problem of the UN (or any synth) being single-timbral. I usually don't have much of a need for splitting across the keyboard, but I'm pretty sure that can be done fully in the DAW as well, if I wanted the UN playing only on low octaves and Zebra playing on the high for example. Some VSTs support multi-timbrality more directly, for example letting you add layers within the VST or split across the keyboard and run them through the FX of the VST itself, all as one sound or in some cases independently. Omnisphere is one that comes to mind that seems to really encourage layering in the "mutli-mode" sense that many traditional hardware synths used to use.

When I first got into softsynths, one of the things that really blew me away is that there is really no more notion of a limitation on things like multi-timbrality or polyphony. By that I mean there is a limitation, but the limitation is simply how much can your computer CPU handle rather than an inherent limitation like "X number of voices" or layers supported. Need more? Just add more instances, sort of just like having multiple hardware instruments responding to the same MIDI channel input.

[TweakHead]

When I first got into softsynths, one of the things that really blew me away is that there is really no more notion of a limitation on things like multi-timbrality or polyphony. By that I mean there is a limitation, but the limitation is simply how much can your computer CPU handle rather than an inherent limitation like "X number of voices" or layers supported. Need more? Just add more instances, sort of just like having multiple hardware instruments responding to the same MIDI channel input.

That's the thing about plug-ins. Another great advantage is that you can automate every single parameter on the fly, thus surpassing the modulations included on a modulation matrix, for example. Layering is key to have a good sound, like you say. Even using the same synth - this is valid for any kind, both hardware and software, saving two separate versions of the same phrase with little differences on them, panning one to left and another to the right, delaying one of them a few "ms", for example, opens wild avenues in sound design. One can extend this to very complex patches, like: having a sound on the centre with the highs filtered out, then two others panned to the extremes on tops, with lows filtered. That's a big sounding patch!

The ability to press some keys (ctrl+b) on Logic and instantly render the audio from midi in perfect sync and being able to edit the audio afterwards with fades, time-stretch, reverse parts, so forth and so on - surely is another big advantage. The Daw has become the laboratory for our imagination and the tools are so readily available that it would be insane not to make use of them.

But if you're like me: you don't want everything quantised, you want some organic textures and sounds with a human touch (and feel) on them. This is the part where hardware still wins, no matter what. And even the pre-amps on sound cards can add some warmth to the equation.

I think it still makes a lot of sense to have good hardware synths but the developers must look for better ways to integrate them with the software: perfect sync, the ability to easily save projects on disk or within the projects, and to edit the sounds on screen, and (most important of all) being able to write automation for our patches is something that I think hardware synth developers need to focus on. I'm pretty sure such efforts will be rewarded.

At the same time, I see a re-emergence of the euro rack taking place. I think it's more the sound design enthusiasts and geeks more then music makers that go down this avenues - but it's very very cool that this stuff is back for good. I've seen some setups on youtube that make me scratch my head, thus the old saying: once you go euro rack, you never look back. it's kind of a warning XD

[namnibor]

Very cool and intelligently written. Thanks!

[feedingear]

Agree Tweak.

Would kill for a modular setup. I follow Richard Devine on fb and he always has the most amazing rack units to toy with. There really is something magical about the tactile interaction with an instrument that lends itself to creativity and finding that elusive essence/spirit when writing imho.

[namnibor]

@MBTC

Thought to let you know Novation released a second free sound pack of sounds from Supernova for Ultranova/Mininova and there will be a third free one later this year.
Here's the link and info about it: http://en.audiofanzine.com/synthesizer-sample/novation/supernova-soundpack-ii/news/a.play,n.16394.html?utm_source=weekly_newsletter&utm_medium=e-mail&utm_campaign=Weekly+newsletter+for+August+10%2C+2013

Conversely, can just go direct to Novation's website and download the 64 sounds.

[MBTC]

Thanks for the heads up!

You can listen to some of the sounds (both from the Supernova I and II packs, and some other novation stuff) here:

https://soundcloud.com/novationmusic

Good to see Novation making good on their promise of additional sounds, this synth has a lot of potential and the stock presets and early sound pack releases were not doing it justice.

[namnibor]

Thanks for that link. I currently do not have my Supernova 1 rack within a midi chain set-up but can tell you from listening to those demos, it comes pretty close, particularly at 3:44 with that lushly warm pad/string sound and again at 4:26 with the arp sound. I just received a no-computer required midi router to add to my set-up that may be 'old school' but it's simplicity makes it very utilitarian (Kawai MAV-8), and this way without having to make unnecessary midi thru's or be unhooking/patching cables with a mirror and flashlight on rack, just move the slider to desired synth and only plugging of labeled cables have to do are the audio outs into the Scarlett 18i20.
Choose to keep the original Supernova 1 rack not only because of IMO the awesome sounds, but one heck of a poly arp that is not far from being a sequencer and love the very knobby interface.

[MBTC]

One thing I haven't actually heard is an A/B of the Supernova patch sets played on the Ultra versus the original. I've seen one guy (subjectively) state that his Supernova sounds warmer, but he said that based on the original patch banks of the Ultranova (which are horrible) and unscientific tests (the Supernova banks had not been released yet). I'd love to hear a valid (and properly conducted) test of same patches on both. So far I'm inclined to believe it's another case of "placebo effect" induced by all the lovely knobs on the Supernova :)

I see (or I should say hear) that a lot in the battle of hardware vs. software synths. A perception of warmth that perhaps exists when listening to the raw signal but gets lost by the time it's placed in a digital audio file and listened to on an MP3 player, over soundcloud etc. Seems a little like getting caught up on a requirement of "pure analog", then ultimately putting the music into a digital format :) Ironic to say the least.

I can believe the SN is capable of sounding better overall because it was 8-part multi-timbral I believe? (Thus could get some layered patch sounds that the UN could not) But what I'd be interested in is how it sounds in a direct comparison on same single patch. Supposedly these SN patch banks for the UN are direct ports, so it should be easy enough to do for those that have both synths -- hopefully a youtube video or similar will surface soon.

[Timo]

Does the Ultranova use the same algorithms for its filters and EGs and stuff as the Supernova, then?

[TweakHead]

One thing I haven't actually heard is an A/B of the Supernova patch sets played on the Ultra versus the original. I've seen one guy (subjectively) state that his Supernova sounds warmer, but he said that based on the original patch banks of the Ultranova (which are horrible) and unscientific tests (the Supernova banks had not been released yet). I'd love to hear a valid (and properly conducted) test of same patches on both. So far I'm inclined to believe it's another case of "placebo effect" induced by all the lovely knobs on the Supernova :)

I see (or I should say hear) that a lot in the battle of hardware vs. software synths. A perception of warmth that perhaps exists when listening to the raw signal but gets lost by the time it's placed in a digital audio file and listened to on an MP3 player, over soundcloud etc. Seems a little like getting caught up on a requirement of "pure analog", then ultimately putting the music into a digital format :) Ironic to say the least.

I can believe the SN is capable of sounding better overall because it was 8-part multi-timbral I believe? (Thus could get some layered patch sounds that the UN could not) But what I'd be interested in is how it sounds in a direct comparison on same single patch. Supposedly these SN patch banks for the UN are direct ports, so it should be easy enough to do for those that have both synths -- hopefully a youtube video or similar will surface soon.

I agree with you. But using external instruments you always add a stage into the mix, the pre amps on the soundcards are responsible - I think - for the extra warmth people claim to exist on hardware, even when we're talking VA tech. If you pay attention to what happens on the hip hop side of music, there's a similar controversy concerning the Akai MPC. No wonder you also have MPC analogue modeling on some famous samplers like Kontakt and Battery and stuff like that. If you look at the tech specs on those old machines, you usually had 10 bits (in depth) or something similar, and a lot of people claim the old sounds warmer and punchier. Same with the Nord Lead 1 vs 2, or the Virus C vs Ti. It's probably as simple as the later having better converters, more clean sound and definition while people have grown used to a more lo fi sound that they feel is edgier and more warm sounding, all a matter of habit.

[MBTC]

Does the Ultranova use the same algorithms for its filters and EGs and stuff as the Supernova, then?

I think the general consensus is yes, although I don't think I've ever seen this in official writing from Novation.

[MBTC]

I agree with you. But using external instruments you always add a stage into the mix, the pre amps on the soundcards are responsible - I think - for the extra warmth people claim to exist on hardware, even when we're talking VA tech. If you pay attention to what happens on the hip hop side of music, there's a similar controversy concerning the Akai MPC. No wonder you also have MPC analogue modeling on some famous samplers like Kontakt and Battery and stuff like that. If you look at the tech specs on those old machines, you usually had 10 bits (in depth) or something similar, and a lot of people claim the old sounds warmer and punchier. Same with the Nord Lead 1 vs 2, or the Virus C vs Ti. It's probably as simple as the later having better converters, more clean sound and definition while people have grown used to a more lo fi sound that they feel is edgier and more warm sounding, all a matter of habit.

Sure, I don't doubt whether certain aspects of a given piece of hardware (pre amps alone can make a difference, as you pointed out). I was just saying that it's probably not going to matter much at the end of the day once it's in an MP3 on someone's iPod or whatever, thus its not really worthwhile to get too caught up on "pure analog warmth" or whatever, as it's only an inspirational effect on the ear that won't make it to the final track anyway.

[trance gate]

Reason being, I checked out a few Ultranova audio demos and reviews on youtube and unfortunately I was disappointed with all of them. To me sounds like it has a kinda plasticky, digital, thin, phasey sound to it.

... the supersaw at 2:57 onwards on the Ultranova sounds horribly phasey and weak when dialing in the detune and hitting new keys (more specifically it resets the trig phase of all the multiple detuned saws at note-on each time, so you get a "peeow, peeow" sound every time you press a key as they all start in phase then detune away from each other, rather than starting them as free-running entities to begin with, regardless of detune amount) and I've noticed this undesirable artefact effect is common in other people's Ultranova demos too. My Korg Radias does the same thing and I hate it.

You are completely right Timo.

I have the ultranova and though it's a really nice synth, the supersaw on it sucks and has the peeow peeow thing you noticed. It's a pity.

I am about pushing the button for a King Korg, it would be nice to know if it has the same problem like the radias with the supersaw osc.

I don't notice it in the videos, for example in this one:

axSHkrIlr6I

but I'll try to ask in korg forums.

cheers!

edit:
Love these supersaws from KK
https://soundcloud.com/korg/demo5-anthem-king

[MBTC]

You are completely right Timo.

I have the ultranova and though it's a really nice synth, the supersaw on it sucks and has the peeow peeow thing you noticed. It's a pity.

I am about pushing the button for a King Korg, it would be nice to know if it has the same problem like the radias with the supersaw osc.

I don't notice it in the videos, for example in this one:

http://youtu.be/axSHkrIlr6I

but I'll try to ask in korg forums.

cheers!

Did you read my followup to Timo's question? You can set the oscillator phase to either Free, or a numeric value between 0-180. Set to Free either from the board itself or the VST to get rid of the peeow peeow sound.

I'm curious what you don't like about the supersaw on the UN, maybe I can help there too? If you didn't yet know about the osc phase setting I'm inclined to think you haven't explored it deeply enough yet. You have to on this synth to get the most from it. There are a couple of different ways to achieve supersaws on the UN, one uses up more voices (like the Virus) and one does not. Explore both methods and I think you'll find some good stuff.

Also be sure to get both Supernova soundsets -- they are better than the factory patches. The Daniel Fisher sounds are a nice showcase for its diversity but if it's trance sounds you seek, they are not good starting points.

The biggest shortcoming I find in the Ultranova is simply lack of available soundsets for it. You have to be committed to making your own sounds to get the most out of it.

But about the King Korg -- yes I think it has a nice sound too from what I've heard, been eyeballing that one for a while. Nice price point as well, even if twice the cost of a Ultranova.

[MBTC]

I've been having some trouble with bulk importing the Supernova II sounds, onto the synth bank D, the librarian keeps crashing. It will transfer some of the patches successfully, sometimes putting a patch in one slot, then leaving a blank slot, rinse and repeat. First time I've seen this problem, had no problem importing other banks in the past. Maybe I'm due for some updates? I'll have to look into this later and report back.

It's definitely not a perfect piece of gear, but I will say at the price point of the Ultra, when you get let down by the software, it's a lot easier to live with than it would be with a $3k synth.

[trance gate]

Did you read my followup to Timo's question? You can set the oscillator phase to either Free, or a numeric value between 0-180. Set to Free either from the board itself or the VST to get rid of the peeow peeow sound.

I'm curious what you don't like about the supersaw on the UN, maybe I can help there too? If you didn't yet know about the osc phase setting I'm inclined to think you haven't explored it deeply enough yet. You have to on this synth to get the most from it. There are a couple of different ways to achieve supersaws on the UN, one uses up more voices (like the Virus) and one does not. Explore both methods and I think you'll find some good stuff.

Also be sure to get both Supernova soundsets -- they are better than the factory patches. The Daniel Fisher sounds are a nice showcase for its diversity but if it's trance sounds you seek, they are not good starting points.

The biggest shortcoming I find in the Ultranova is simply lack of available soundsets for it. You have to be committed to making your own sounds to get the most out of it.

But about the King Korg -- yes I think it has a nice sound too from what I've heard, been eyeballing that one for a while. Nice price point as well, even if twice the cost of a Ultranova.

sorry for the late reply!

Well, As I told I really like the ultranova but I've got one of the first sold units. It's full of bugs and problems.
Beginning with the hiss on the headphones output, the unreliable big knob (it fell of the shaft in maybe 3 hours of use) and sometimes the synth just doesn't want to turn on.

The software is pretty buggy, the drift of the oscs sometimes works, the same happens with the delay time.

About the supersaw IMHO, I don't find it bad but I feel it begins to sound really thin as you detune it to a point it sounds like a real supersaw. To avoid it you only have to stack another set of detuned saws an octave appart but it usually makes the sound muddier and full of white noise.

Again, IMHO the virus hypersaw sounds better and the sylenth1 detuned saws too.

Appart of my crappy full of bugs unit the synth is really nice. The mod matrix is really nice to use with a lot of destinations and the touch control is clever.
About presets I can't tell you anything as I never use them in any synth, I prefer creating my own sounds.

If I'd only have 700 euros to spend it would be a fight between this and a blofeld keyboard.

Both of them full of nice sounds and a crappy build quality to reduce costs.

Whatever, after having it for 2.5 years, I've never planned to sell it, it's a nice synth with a nice keybed and a great size.

cheers!

[namnibor]

Well, since I have a Blofeld Keyboard Black Shadow Edition, I can attest to fact it is BUILT LIKE A TANK! The Fatar keys are exact same ones used on Virus KC and DSI Mono Evolver Keyboard, of which I own as well. Understand that I did not buy mine until the O.S. was stable as that's a pet peeve of mine with companies and there's only a few minor bugs yet to be addressed that relate to the arp sync on first note, but that's kind of a Waldorf thing because my Q has the exact same little bug. Fabulously deep and capable synth that compliments the Virus very well because of distinct filters, incredibly deep mod matrix, with my preferring Blofeld's envelopes and LFO's, yep, ALL FOUR each of them with choice of linear, algorithmic, bipolar/looping. The Virus of course excels in all of those too, and if I truly were to gripe about *anything* with Blofeld Keyboard, it would be the effects, which are nowhere near a Virus, and being able to run Blofeld through Virus effects make them so happy together I HOPE they produce an illegitimate LOVE CHILD one night. I think both the Virus KC and Blofeld Keyboard have bit of a craptastic mult-mode unless of course, you just use your DAW, which is work-around for both, have learned.
After all, many of the Waldorf Engineers went to work with Access for the brief time of bankruptcy mess in helping develop the Ti. So they actually share some "synth DNA" as far as brilliant minds.
**Seems more common now that ever for a new product upon release to either be incomplete or very buggy and it's beyond me why these companies actually utilize the SAME Beta-Testers most of the time because seems it's people that think and use/push their instruments 'outside the box' that catch all these 'bugs'.
Rant over...had to say something or my Blofeld would keep threatening my cat! :rolleyes:

[MBTC]

sorry for the late reply!

Well, As I told I really like the ultranova but I've got one of the first sold units. It's full of bugs and problems.
Beginning with the hiss on the headphones output, the unreliable big knob (it fell of the shaft in maybe 3 hours of use) and sometimes the synth just doesn't want to turn on.


Thanks for the response. I haven't used the headphone output much or had the other problems you mentioned, could just be early production bugs as you say. Although, the big knob does seem to "lose it's grip on the value" if I move it too fast if that makes sense? Its like the software can't keep up with the synth knob.... I meant to contact Novation to see if that's normal, but it didn't bother me too much because I have so many ways to overcome it (such as mapping a knob from my MK II or my Cubase AI controller to the filter on the VST, which works just like any soft synth).


The software is pretty buggy, the drift of the oscs sometimes works, the same happens with the delay time.


I've had problems with the librarian (specifically loading bulk patches) recently, which is weird because before I had no problems and I haven't applied updates since. The software itself is a little quirky, but I find it to be quite solid for an "integrated hardware solution" (my only other experience for a valid comparison would be with Virus control which was way buggier by comparison).


About the supersaw IMHO, I don't find it bad but I feel it begins to sound really thin as you detune it to a point it sounds like a real supersaw. To avoid it you only have to stack another set of detuned saws an octave appart but it usually makes the sound muddier and full of white noise.

Again, IMHO the virus hypersaw sounds better and the sylenth1 detuned saws too.


I can believe that's true, I just don't have a Virus ATM to compare and contrast. When I first got the Ultranova I did some raw supersaw comparisons with Zebra, which I have gotten some insanely rich supersaws out of in the past, and I found the Ultranova to be roughly comparable. But like all synths, great sounds don't just jump out at you from nowhere, sometimes finding the sweet spot of sound design takes some time. Biggest difference for me is that with something like Zebra, Massive, Sylenth1 etc I have huge libraries of already great sounds when I don't feel like investing the time to start from scratch, while the Ultranova is lacking a little on third party patch availability.

I do admit to kind of a love/hate relationship with the software, because on one hand it is very rich in features but on the other hand you sometimes run into limitations that are just in your way, more so than with a good soft synth. As you said though the combination of mod matrix and the touch controls bring a lot to the table.


Appart of my crappy full of bugs unit the synth is really nice. The mod matrix is really nice to use with a lot of destinations and the touch control is clever.
About presets I can't tell you anything as I never use them in any synth, I prefer creating my own sounds.

If I'd only have 700 euros to spend it would be a fight between this and a blofeld keyboard.


Not sure how pricing is where you are, but in the US I paid the equivalent of 450 euros for this unit brand new direct from Novation! Admittedly, the price contributes greatly to my satisfaction.


Both of them full of nice sounds and a crappy build quality to reduce costs.

Whatever, after having it for 2.5 years, I've never planned to sell it, it's a nice synth with a nice keybed and a great size.


I'd definitely agree the build quality is not in the same league as Virus or any high-end instrument. The keys even feel light and cheap to me, but for certain types of playing I find this to be easier on the hands and good for quick movements. I don't expect to see these selling in "mint condition" on eBay 20 years from now.

[MBTC]

Well, since I have a Blofeld Keyboard Black Shadow Edition, I can attest to fact it is BUILT LIKE A TANK! The Fatar keys are exact same ones used on Virus KC and DSI Mono Evolver Keyboard, of which I own as well. Understand that I did not buy mine until I the O.S. was stable as that's a pet peeve of mine with companies and there's only a few minor bugs yet to be addressed that relate to the arp sync on first note, but that's kind of a Waldorf thing because my Q has the exact same little bug.

How are arp patterns edited on the blofield? That's one peeve of mine about the ultranova, there is a fixed set of arp patterns. There are of course a lot of different ways to mangle those so that they are non-recognizable, but it's too experimental once you've worked with a decent arp editor like synthmaster, omnisphere, nexus etc for example are some that come to mind.

[namnibor]

How are arp patterns edited on the blofield? That's one peeve of mine about the ultranova, there is a fixed set of arp patterns. There are of course a lot of different ways to mangle those so that they are non-recognizable, but it's too experimental once you've worked with a decent arp editor like synthmaster, omnisphere, nexus etc come to mind.

On the Blo's large screen you of course could select from many patterns and also user patterns and actually is shy of being a full-on sequencer...certainly easier and less of headache to set-up that on my Virus KC.

With that said, have learned using the DAW as work around for both Virus and Blofeld is simply faster, if anything else. The Blo has it's multi-mode and arp entwined very tightly to where one could easily summize they are one and the same. I actually like the arp set-up on Blo much better than Virus but apples to oranges when it comes to 'menu-diving', as it just becomes intuitive with practice, of which I need more of and will.

Side-note: unloading the Korg Radias because although has a great user interface and it REALLY *could be* a great-er synth, if it simply did not want to sound so damn ~~HAPPY~~ ALL the time:confused: .
My Elektron Analog Four just arrived...:grin: :p :grin: :p I am *never* sleeping again!!!

[namnibor]

How are arp patterns edited on the blofield? That's one peeve of mine about the ultranova, there is a fixed set of arp patterns. There are of course a lot of different ways to mangle those so that they are non-recognizable, but it's too experimental once you've worked with a decent arp editor like synthmaster, omnisphere, nexus etc for example are some that come to mind.
Arp user-created set-ups are done on large screen in a grid of 16 note slots and a similar type of set-up is utilized for multi-mode 16 parts or conversely, 16 different ARPS with up to 16 DIFFERENT programs...it's the same deep ARP that's on the Waldorf Q. I am still wrapping my head around the depth of the Q's on-board step sequencer and cool thing about the Q is it will ALWAYS be 16 voices/parts, no matter how complicated you make modulation routings or use of dual multi filters, all 4 eight stage envelopes, et al....however, use the Virus for effects as seems to be Waldorf's Achilles Heal! Hope that better answers you and oh....did I mention *resistance was futile* and my Elektron Analog Four just arrived? Yeah, I should just have my headphones surgically attached!!!:p ;)

[MBTC]

On the Blo's large screen you of course could select from many patterns and also user patterns and actually is shy of being a full-on sequencer...certainly easier and less of headache to set-up that on my Virus KC.


How are the user patterns created? Imported midi file?

On the ultranova it just seems like a dumb limitation. Especially since there is a proper visual gate pattern editor, with stereo editing.


With that said, have learned using the DAW as work around for both Virus and Blofeld is simply faster, if anything else.


There was a time when I would just do everything in the DAW because a lot of arp situations lend themselves to that. Lately though, I've been using the arp + latch feature of the Ultranova as more of a composition tool to find some catchy melodies before I go too far with the DAW. For example, left hand on the UN, right hand on the MKII controlling a softsynth like Dune, where the Ultranova is doing a rolling/arpy bassline and Dune is doing a lead. Then map a couple of touch knobs to things like subtle osc pitch tweaks, a little sync or distortion etc to make it easy to make the bassline really dynamic. It's just a really fast way of getting inspiration. But I can't quite take it exactly where I want with the UN, because I've only got a choice of the few-dozen preset patterns, and to really change them I have to do things like change timing and add delay's to change up the groove. Something like one of the aforementioned arp editors on the UN would add tremendous value.

[namnibor]

They are entered by playing an actual note and of course you can adjust the octave range, length of note, time sig, and various latch/hold and ability to add new notes in real time, essentially "playing the arp" just as DSI Mono Evolver Keyboard has. Of course there's the high/low note priority, et al that you would expect as well as random. I have the Blofeld Keyboard but the Blofeld Desktop operates same way with attached midi controller but the Desktop does NOT have a 5-pin DIN Midi Out, only the Midi IN so on THAT NOTE, although I do not use USB 2.0 with Blofeld Keyboard and would actually recommend the Keyboard over the Module because MOST of the "bugs" on Blofeld seem to be USB related because as a 'cost-saving measure', Waldorf did not properly 'shield' the USB, at least definitely on the Desktop Blo, meaning dependence on MIDI over USB 2.0 for a live set-up for two way communication could prove cumbersome. The work-around is some sort of 'Ferrite isolator for USB', and that's all I honestly know regarding that and was determining factor on getting the Blofeld Synth after also realizing same exact Fatar keys I love on Virus KC and DSI MEK, as the after touch is so damn responsive. What is it with **some companies** skimping on their implementation of USB when the aforementioned module version would DEPEND on such for efficient and trouble free communication? Kind of akin to Access finding it somehow more logical rather than pragmatic, to use USB 1 for the Ti series, which again, VC **DEPENDS** upon full efficient use of bandwidth???:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
What I have read thus far and watched, the Analog Four's ARP grid/note editor is the way it should be in that it's very visual on the screen, providing people understand how to read notes as they appear on sheet music and the destination of number representing it's octave position.
Elektron made a POINT to mention they cut no corners and their USB port IS fully isolated electrically and shielded EFI/EMI. Sorry, sent this prematurely as studio cat decided my arm was something to apparently be stalking for last few minutes!!:o

[namnibor]

Do realize the King Korg essentially has 98% of very same MMT Sound Engine the Korg Radias has...and am sure the filters may be better on the King Korg, but also realize Korg did NOT implement After Touch on YET another synth...and I did mention my Korg Radias is being officially grounded and disowned due to THAT MMT Sound Engine...sounds way to HAPPY! Korg Forums have even enough info of speculation that amidst Korg's recent great releases down analog patch again, the King Korg has been alluded to Korg's Pink Elephant, with ebay rife with people selling them for like $800-$950. of late...something to consider.
Have learned as primarily a piano trained person, that after touch is so damn dynamically handy when taken time to set-up each program with what you want to modulate with it...King Korg is bit of a JOKER rather than a KING IMO without AT.:rolleyes:

[MBTC]

They are entered by playing an actual note and of course you can adjust the octave range, length of note, time sig, and various latch/hold and ability to add new notes in real time, essentially "playing the arp" just as DSI Mono Evolver Keyboard has. Of course there's the high/low note priority, et al that you would expect as well as random.


That's probably a slight upgrade over the Ultranova -- I should have mentioned you can sort of change things up with the typical chord/as played variations, etc, so I guess those are considered "user patterns", but to me an arp editor means being able to visually edit, even if its just something like a step sequencer display, and preferably be able to do things like modify note velocity and duration or other parameters as part of the display, as well as (critical) the arp sequence step length. Being able to do things like record the arp, add notes in real time etc. definitely adds something, although it doesn't quite supplant the type of editing I'd like to see. Nexus for all its faults has an arp editor that is the gold standard I think.



Kind of akin to Access finding it somehow more logical rather than pragmatic, to use USB 1 for the Ti series, which again, VC **DEPENDS** upon full efficient use of bandwidth???:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


I don't know how you can get away with saying that while I can't, but I'll be content to live vicariously through you ;)

[namnibor]

"I don't know how you can get away with saying that while I can't, but I'll be content to live vicariously through you"

Surely, you are being sardonic, at best?!? OOOPS~! "THEY" just remotely must have sent a signal from Germany, my cat is staring down the Virus KC as if it growled or something! Note to self: Watch for smoke!:rolleyes:

Speaking of smoke, I am a straight-shooter and tell it like it is because I was not "blowing smoke up someone's arse when giving accolades where due re: strong reason I use both Virus KC and Blofeld Keyboard AND a Q. However, I will risk a post being "scrubbed" by stating three thousand dollars is a big risk to take even with a powerful dedicated DAW PC Tower I have running Reaper and recording mostly audio thus far from all hardware synths, to then *possibly* find out that VC (again, possibly), may simply not "play nice" for only reason of having a string rather than a hose for it's nexus to VC.

Now, on the Blofeld ARP, you can enter real time, adjust the whole matrix, note and track length, mute, et al...and adding/defining midi channel(s) and of course ARP and drive alongside, other synths in a chain, if you wish. Rarely will I buy anything brand new, being one to wait a bit and see how it works out for others, bug fixes, and then do as I have done with Analog Four, eight months post release. Three Year Warranty is just icing on the cake and here I go risk a "scrubbed post again", in saying save from DSI's excellent customer support, have found Elektron folks even attentive to the used Mk1 of MonoMachine I purchased end of 2012. They have a great forum community and Elektron answered MANY email queries I have had on the Analog Four over a period of eight months that it's quite amazing that the smaller "boutique" companies making innovative instruments have proven to really have great interaction with their users...**except** Waldorf, but to be honest, they HAVE answered the few questions I have sent to them, even if it was a month after the fact...they are an odd lot and it's the strength and power of their instruments that seal the deal with this odd-ball in the mix.

Nothing is smoking yet!:rolleyes:

[TweakHead]

Just checking in on this forum (been real busy) I sense a great deal of tension! Everything's better then boredom I guess.

My 2 cents on this: Virus is a wonderful instrument and was so even before the "total integration" thing came into be. From my point of view - I've also said this plenty, but will dare say it again - it has been gaining a lot of features meanwhile (from C onwards) that set a high benchmark for either hardware (hardly anything out there that can do so much) and even software if you're a sound quality freak.

I've also said that if you take a look at the Nord Lead 4, that has just came out (sort of) and look at it's features and compare them to the Virus ti (even without complementing the ti side of it) the difference in terms of the timbres you can get out of it, the modulation options, the fx section (high grade, and you can run audio through it), the number of voices and the flexibility of it's routings, etc. If you compare the prices between the two you may come to the same conclusion I did long ago: if Access were to keep away from the adventure of TI, no one would be bashing on it the whole time.

This is a thing that really puzzles me: if you go "down" (no smoke yet eheh) to Gear Slutz (I could say level just to catch the smoke, no? ok, level) you see perhaps hundreds (if not thousands) of threads either bashing on the Virus or insanely comparing it with just about anything or even a dumber virus vs pick your software synthesizer of choice, can even be an additive or a rom player like Nexus - minimum requirements don't mention using reason or any sort of specific knowledge, so as long as the Virus is the target everything will be fine.

Makes me wonder: how come it's always about the Virus? And not the fiddly knobs on the Blofeld (a friend of mine had to send one back because of it), or the buggy software it had. Or the menu diving required (yeah, I've used it), even without a proper editor (let alone...) and costing (the rack one) half the price of a snow. How come no one bashes on the Nord Lead for not having a bipolar envelope for the filters? For not having effects prior to version 4? Or Korg Radias? Does it have more features then a Virus C? Hell no! When was the C released?

So I figure that the Virus - like it or not - is the benchmark against which all Virtual Analogue synthesizers are measured against! And even without the integration functioning properly, it's a synthesizer work horse, like a swiss army knife kind of synthesizer with very good build quality!

Will dare say this: does the quality on the Ultra compare to it? if you focus on the integration side of things, then yeah, working better. What about the sound? The modulation options? What you can actually get out of it? Doesn't even have FM, I have plenty of FM modes on the C - and that was 2004 for the record! Even the number of voices is higher then more recent products!

So in the synthesizer department, unless people are eager to compare it with just about any software instrument there is (most specially those who don't have the money for it and are nothing more then net trolls), I think it's doing pretty damn well and way better then King Korg, Nord 4, Blofeld, or the Ultra. Is it not?

If it wasn't for NI's geniuses and Urs's genius (U-he) making software so incredibly good, this topic wouldn't even be worth a look behind the shoulder! For those making music, the Virus is one of the most versatile and inspirational machines out there and great performance devices to for live usage!

If you ask me, I like older products much more then I do love new ones. Such companies like Roland, Korg, Yamaha (oh boy), Waldorf (outch, they're coming back so no pun intended) simply lost the sparkle along the way. Roland is like beyond belief. How can they trigger EDM music into be with the 303, TR x0x groove boxes, Junos, SH and what not, and then completely go out of inspiration with the brilliant exception of V-Station (probably being harsh and unfair here, but... they've set the standards high, not me)... What about the Virus? Well, you add user drawable stuff to it, fine tune the TI thing and it's the best thing on the surface of the planet for sure.

I'd get the TI if I didn't have the C and wouldn't give a shit about TI not working with so many features on my hands. A template made for midi automation and it's good to go - like the C.

No one bashing the Moog, a mono synth with knobs on it, not so many features, but such kind of menu diving that you need the manual at hands! Does it come cheap? Hell no! Living from the reputation? You bet. Yeah, it's analogue and all, but...

Having said all this, I think it's fair enough to ask people about their personal experience on Foruns. Where else should they go to? And there's no smoke without fire, and the USB thing... well, you don't need to ear it again. Everyone knows about it! I ear it's a lot better since version 5, judging by people I know that own one! All I can say about it! I

smoke on the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

[MBTC]

This is a thing that really puzzles me: if you go "down" (no smoke yet eheh) to Gear Slutz (I could say level just to catch the smoke, no? ok, level) you see perhaps hundreds (if not thousands) of threads either bashing on the Virus or insanely comparing it with just about anything or even a dumber virus vs pick your software synthesizer of choice, can even be an additive or a rom player like Nexus - minimum requirements don't mention using reason or any sort of specific knowledge, so as long as the Virus is the target everything will be fine.

Makes me wonder: how come it's always about the Virus?


I'll only comment on this part, because I think there's been enough drama around here lately already and I really don't want to be identified as a conduit for that. I think the answer to your question above primarily relates to cost per unit of the Virus versus what else is out there. One recurring theme you may have noticed from me in this thread is that the low cost of the UltraNova offsets its flaws.

Synth heads have a tendancy to be "technology" people, and with tech products you almost always see one of three things over a period of a decade or so: downward pressure on price, or a constantly improving feature set, or vastly improved performance (they are not mutually exclusive, you normally will see all three). Failing one of those, a product is bound to get some bad press. The nature of Internet communication mechanisms tends to be a cynical tone at best, even great products get lots of criticism, such that when someone has nothing but rosy things to say about a product, readers on tend to wonder if it's just Pollyanna-ism or in some cases whether the writer with rose colored glasses is shilling for the vendor in question. It's just changing times and the cynical nature of the Internet, and also improvements in lower cost soft-synths have probably taken their toll on all hardware manufacturers to some extent.

[namnibor]

:rolleyes: I absolutely agree with you, Tweakhead, for the most part (aside from I DO love the Blofeld...*but not as much* as I ADORE my Virus KC and OLDER Waldorf gear. (if you look on a recent quasi-necro-post I made, my Radias is going bye bye...would love to set it on fire while it is turned on with a chord held to see if it even DIES with a damn HAPPY sound!!:( )

However, I love the Virus so much that if I did not have already great wavetable synthesis as just one of many things the Q can do, and the Q did not exist, would be as you said probably, and not even worry about the total integration thing and get the Ti for recording track by track. Each time I spend hours with the KC I am blown away by how versatile it is and totally compliments another synth from around same time period as Virus KC, again the Q.
Not even anything I have heard in many demos of the new Prophet 12 come close to the two synths aforementioned and indeed sounds rather "thin" to my ears.
I know someone whom owns a "little phatty/slim-on-features-but phatty"...as he calls it. It BARELY has a modulation matrix!! He now has replaced it with a Virus KB because he played on mine for a bit and he was blown away by how damn analog it CAN sound. (he thought my KC was a bit "too dark sounding" but indeed went Viral way), instead of Moog.
Yeah, those gearslutz arguments full of hot air bashing the Virus by some really uneducated ASSumptions can be a good laugh but if you have read one thread/topic you pretty much have read them all...even saw one that persisted for over a year and half on how software was better than the Virus vs. those arguing the Virus IS nothing but software in a box.
Funny, none of those people would want to look inside a Moog Voyager and see how many IC's are in a 'real analog'....HA!
Also, so what if a great hardware instrument is running code anyway? I prefer a nice tactile interface with knobs and keys over mouse clicking but that's just me. in the end we are all heading towards the same goal of enjoying making and creating music.
I am interested in what Access is up to in their labs. Awful quiet, but that also seems to be the Germanic method among the synth makers there.

[Timo]

I go on holiday for five days without decent wi-fi and things go mininova!

I'd hate to close the thread as the on-topic aspects, in the main, may well be useful to some, and others may still have questions/answers pertaining to the Ultranova, so I have soft-deleted some of the latter comments in a final attempt to steer it back somewhat. At the same time, this is not an invitation to restart poo-flinging, otherwise the thread may be locked and appropriate actions given. However, I feel the need to discuss the ongoing agendas of several users, so will do so via PM.

Please, remain constructive, objective and respectful!

[MBTC]

New free sound pack just released for the Ultranova / Mininova:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pegoEtilznY&feature=player_embedded


Download at:

http://global.novationmusic.com/soundpacks

[MBTC]

Special edition of Mininova (500 units will be made) for those into collector gear:

http://www.morodernova.com/

[MBTC]

Special edition of Mininova (500 units will be made) for those into collector gear:

http://www.morodernova.com/

Ok these are out now, so who will be the first to buy one and post the 30 Moroder patches for the rest of us less-special-edition owners? :)

[Berni]

Ok these are out now, so who will be the first to buy one and post the 30 Moroder patches for the rest of us less-special-edition owners? :)
The 'I feel love' patches on the video don't even come close...

[MBTC]

The 'I feel love' patches on the video don't even come close...

Do you mean the Sweetwater vid? I think the ping pong delay on the bass could be easily fixed, and with some EQing it would be really close. The percussion was played with tempo set too fast but a reasonable attempt. Tempo setting might have been screwing up the bass delay as well. It's hard to judge them properly when they aren't mixed in together (it being a single-timbral synth).

I don't know if the patches were done by Moroder or Daniel Fisher, but I will say Daniel is a true wiz at sound design. Some of the ones in his Ultranova sound bank are instantly recognizable creations of some pretty difficult to program vintage sounds. They aren't very useful as patches or usable in any other song but they do showcase his design skill and the versatility of the Nova.

[Berni]

Do you mean the Sweetwater vid? I think the ping pong delay on the bass could be easily fixed, and with some EQing it would be really close. The percussion was played with tempo set too fast but a reasonable attempt. Tempo setting might have been screwing up the bass delay as well. It's hard to judge them properly when they aren't mixed in together (it being a single-timbral synth).

I don't know if the patches were done by Moroder or Daniel Fisher, but I will say Daniel is a true wiz at sound design. Some of the ones in his Ultranova sound bank are instantly recognizable creations of some pretty difficult to program vintage sounds. They aren't very useful as patches or usable in any other song but they do showcase his design skill and the versatility of the Nova.

Yeah...should have said that. I wasn't blown away by any of the patches on the vid tbh but I've heard 'I feel love' a thousand times & they didn't come close. Hey if you're charging an extra $50 on the strength of a few patches & a different paint job they should really cut it. They are apparently Moroder approved so not programmed by him.
Bit like the 'darkstar' just a gimmick to sell the same shit in a new wrapper ;)

[MBTC]

Yeah...should have said that. I wasn't blown away by any of the patches on the vid tbh but I've heard 'I feel love' a thousand times & they didn't come close. Hey if you're charging an extra $50 on the strength of a few patches & a different paint job they should really cut it. They are apparently Moroder approved so not programmed by him.
Bit like the 'darkstar' just a gimmick to sell the same shit in a new wrapper ;)

Yes it is kind of like the darkstar gimmick, and I personally wouldn't pay an extra $50 for a limited edition of same, but in truth someone selling one used on eBay 15 years from now would probably more than recoup the premium simply by the fact it will be rarer than the regular Mininova.

I'm sort of glad they are doing this, if it brings attention to the synth then maybe we'll get more soundbanks for it. It also demonstrates a commitment to the product line. At least they aren't just abandoning existing Ultra and Mini and coming out with something completely new to boost sales.

However about the "I Feel Love" sounds, most synth sounds do not sound like they do on the official track unless they are mixed and mastered the exact same way. When you listen to them in isolation they never sound the same, true of any synth. Listen to the Depeche Mode virus patches which are supposedly the original patch. They won't sound the same outside the context of the other parts of the original song. A synth sound in a mix is as much a product of the sounds around it than as it is in isolation.

I felt there were too many other factors (i.e. the fact he wasn't playing them the same, the tempo was wrong, they are played in isolation) to really judge them properly anyway.

[Berni]

Yes it is kind of like the darkstar gimmick, and I personally wouldn't pay an extra $50 for a limited edition of same, but in truth someone selling one used on eBay 15 years from now would probably more than recoup the premium simply by the fact it will be rarer than the regular Mininova.

I'm sort of glad they are doing this, if it brings attention to the synth then maybe we'll get more soundbanks for it. It also demonstrates a commitment to the product line. At least they aren't just abandoning existing Ultra and Mini and coming out with something completely new to boost sales.

However about the "I Feel Love" sounds, most synth sounds do not sound like they do on the official track unless they are mixed and mastered the exact same way. When you listen to them in isolation they never sound the same, true of any synth. Listen to the Depeche Mode virus patches which are supposedly the original patch. They won't sound the same outside the context of the other parts of the original song. A synth sound in a mix is as much a product of the sounds around it than as it is in isolation.

I felt there were too many other factors (i.e. the fact he wasn't playing them the same, the tempo was wrong, they are played in isolation) to really judge them properly anyway.

The thing won't be worth crap in 5 years. It's only usually high end limited's that hold value but who know's. Old synths are losing value & will probably go the way of old samplers.

They are showing the same commitment access have right now.

'I feel love no love for you'

Please, I know this track & it's many remixes & have pulled it apart & dissected it. The main essence being the arp'ed bass line & searing lead. Non of that here but would have helped if the demo guy could actually play the tune's Lol ;)

[MBTC]

The thing won't be worth crap in 5 years. It's only usually high end limited's that hold value but who know's. Old synths are losing value & will probably go the way of old samplers.

Mininovas have been out for many years now and used ones are going for only a little less than new.

The Casio CZ-101, which was considered a toy by some in the 1980's, sold for a few hundred dollars back then and still commands roughly 65%-70% of its original price tag all these years later if in good condition, and that wasn't even a limited production run. I see the Mininova potentially doing the same thing -- it's small and makes some quality tradeoffs, but its kind of like a modern version of the CZ line. And, who knows what someone will pay for rare gear -- as I said I wouldn't pay a premium for it but some folks do go after collector's items. If that's anyone's reason for buying one I'd say bad idea but I can still see the Morodors going for more than the mini on ebay one day.

[Berni]

Mininovas have been out for many years now and used ones are going for only a little less than new.

The Casio CZ-101, which was considered a toy by some in the 1980's, sold for a few hundred dollars back then and still commands roughly 65%-70% of its original price tag all these years later if in good condition, and that wasn't even a limited production run. I see the Mininova potentially doing the same thing -- it's small and makes some quality tradeoffs, but its kind of like a modern version of the CZ line. And, who knows what someone will pay for rare gear -- as I said I wouldn't pay a premium for it but some folks do go after collector's items. If that's anyone's reason for buying one I'd say bad idea but I can still see the Morodors going for more than the mini on ebay one day.

Yeah you have a point...wish I'd bought a bunch of 303's back in the day ;)

[MBTC]

Yeah you have a point...wish I'd bought a bunch of 303's back in the day ;)

Yeah I think old samplers are harder to justify for vintage collector geeks. I can remember when 12-bit samplers first came out and were all the rage. But, the modern computer or any other modest hardware / software combination can just do sampling better these days. That's different than something like a synth, which even if not the most spectacular does have certain characteristics that some could say may not be easily obtained any other way (I never thought PD synthesis of the Casio line was that great, but yeah they had their strong points). Or people just draw inspiration from working with vintage gear. I understand that as I enjoy just looking through the pdf versions of the manuals of some of the old synths I used to own -- nostalgic value. The implementation of an old hardware synth is so specific and costly to properly duplicate, that even its flaws have some value to someone. People go out of their way to emulate some of the bugs and problems of old synths.

But unlike synths I can't really think of a reason to own an old sampler unless it has a lot of useful onboard sounds (and memory was expensive back in the days, so their libraries would be scant by todays standards, with the likes of Komplete and such). I have seen people who specifically look for the characteristics of old 12-bit sound, but it's easy enough to emulate a lower bit rate on modern gear.

[evilgus]

Just bought a Mininova, time to reorganise my studio! (And do some tests against the Virus...)

EG

[MBTC]

Just bought a Mininova, time to reorganise my studio! (And do some tests against the Virus...)


Congrats, these are great synths.

[evilgus]

Maybe not the best start with Novation - the first Mininova had a dud screen backlight, so I had to return it for a replacement. Just unpacked the new one and it seems ok, except that it seems to forget the "Sort By Numbers" toggle-switch setting, if you switch between Genres or Patch Types. I don't think the previous one did that.

But yeh, I love the vocoder and vocal-tune will be fun. Been listening to a lot of Devo, this week, might even do a few covers for fun! I had forgotten how much vocoder and vocal effects they sneak into songs, just as a subtle extra.

EG

[MBTC]

Maybe not the best start with Novation - the first Mininova had a dud screen backlight, so I had to return it for a replacement. Just unpacked the new one and it seems ok, except that it seems to forget the "Sort By Numbers" toggle-switch setting, if you switch between Genres or Patch Types. I don't think the previous one did that.

But yeh, I love the vocoder and vocal-tune will be fun. Been listening to a lot of Devo, this week, might even do a few covers for fun! I had forgotten how much vocoder and vocal effects they sneak into songs, just as a subtle extra.

EG

I've been lucky with the hardware I guess, but admittedly often times I'm controlling my Ultranova from my primary MIDI controller. I keep the UN as a secondary (left hand) controller, for times I want to play two completely different instruments simultaneously. Then of course real time modulation fun via the touch knobs -- I think the Mini has buttons that do the same thing as the knobs if I recall. I never use the vocoder, I haven't even pugged in the mic in ages.
But yeah where these synths do let down a little bit is in the hardware build quality. Not exactly in same league as Virus in that regard. But a lot of synth for the money, and for some things I actually like the light feel of the UN keys.