Recommend a USB MIDI controller for me?

[MBTC]

I've discovered that my Novation 49-key Remote SL Compact, which is about 4-5 years old, has developed a problem in one of the keys (specifically the G#/Ab key that's about at midpoint).

The velocity is too eager to go to 127 on that key, if that makes sense. You can make it hit lower velocities, but for example if you hit three keys to the left then the key in question and three keys to the right with enough force to target about half of max, in effect the velocity registered might look like:

62-61-59-127-58-60-65

I may explore repairing this particular controller, and any other suggestions to salvage it are appreciated, but since I was eyeballing 61-key controllers anyway, I thought I would put in a request for suggestions.

What are you guys using for a controllers and what would you buy right now if you wanted a new 61 key and why? 49-key solutions considered but 61 preferred.

My primary wish list can be summed up as overall QUALITY! Willing to pay more for it if necessary. I want it to last. Who makes the "best" these days?
Pots for knobs a plus.

[Berni]

The new launchkey from Novation looks pretty tasty...

http://us.novationmusic.com/midi-controllers/launchkey

[TweakHead]

I'm sure you can easily fix it. Sounds like it's got some dirt on it. Take it to some repair service that can handle keyboards, maybe just some cleaning will do it.

The new Impulse seems good to me. It's got the same keyboard and two wheels instead of the joystick. Doesn't have the useless X/Y pad on it, and the knobs and faders seem better. They say the pads are useful now (for more then triggering clips on live or on/off dutties lol). Don't really know about others.

http://d19ulaff0trnck.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/Impulse-Main-Banner-980x351.jpg

[TweakHead]

Just thought about it: doesn't the UltraNova work as a midi controller as well?

[MBTC]

The new launchkey from Novation looks pretty tasty...

http://us.novationmusic.com/midi-controllers/launchkey

These are on my watch-list for now. The Remote SL MKII is currently getting my attention the most because of the mod/pitch stick, and it has both pots and endless encoders for knobs.

[MBTC]

Just thought about it: doesn't the UltraNova work as a midi controller as well?

Definitely, it can work Automap just like the other Novation controllers if you want, but it's still only a 37-key keyboard. It could get me by for a few days if I decide to take the Remote SL Compact 49 apart, but would seriously cramp my style over the long term. I really want a 61-key, that's one reason I'm looking to just pick up a new one and maybe repair the 49 and either use it, or maybe sell it or give it to friend/family if I can get it working as new again.

I tried blowing some compressed air under the keys to see if I could dislodge anything, but no good, I'll probably need to get out the screwdriver.

The Impluse line of Novation boards is on my watch list as are the others, although supposedly they are one notch down in quality from the Remote SL MKII, and I saw an online comparison that said the Impulse has a heavier feel to the keys. The pots and the stick on the MKII are pulling me in that direction right now.

[MBTC]

I ended up getting a Remote SL MKII. Really love the feel of the keys and especially the stick!

I think the board itself is a keeper but Automap is a filthy bitch and I mean that not in a good way. :) I'm not yet sure why it doesn't seem to want to behave. I used Automap for a while with my prior keyboard and don't remember having any problems with it.

[MBTC]

Slight update, I no longer wish death upon Automap, because I think I've figured out my workflow now in Cubase, and therefore Automap will be irrelevant to me in the long run (which is where it landed with my prior controller and DAW). Even still, I think the fiddly nature of it was really not the software's fault anyway, as much as a lack of familiarity with the controller.

The Quick Controls feature of Cubase will be my best friend going forward it looks like.

[TweakHead]

Automap works fine for me. I just edit the templates myself and make them standard for the machines I want to use it with. I tend to edit the number of points for the knobs and encoders, so as to get a more natural feel - to much points and you can't turn the filter like you would on the virus, for example. So I always tune that to taste. After I save those settings, everything works fine. I don't really use the mixer template in logic that much, sometimes I use the transport buttons and recording and all of that. Enabling the click from the keyboard and that sort of thing! But I think Automap works fine once you lose some time with it to really dig the options there - it's just not as instant as they say it is to get best results. But I prefer that to using the midi learn on the daw or the machines themselves, honestly. It's much more streamlined and it gives some important feedback on its screen and on the screen if you choose to with the pop ups - useful for live act.

And I think it's got a lot better with the years to. But I'd really like to have some superior grade knobs, I don't like the encoders as much, I don't really care much for the lead lights showing where it's turned at - I just get a better feeling with the pots I guess. Wish they'd start making controllers more synthesizer based and less generic usage. And with better quality. Automap seems to be evolving just fine, I'd like to see ribbon and great knobs, faders would be ok in a JP8080/SH101 design I guess - not the cheap plastic ones though eheh.

I've looked around and there's simply not a lot of options when it comes to controllers. It all looks like the same S#$%! :twisted:

[MBTC]

Do you have the same keyboard (Remote MkII)? Wasn't sure from your post.

[TweakHead]

Yep! I'm sort of happy with it! But the X/Y pad is totally useless like you know! And the pads are a sad joke also, only usable for triggering on/off buttons or clips in ableton! The rest is fine, I usually use the faders to control amp env and filter env - otherwise I wouldn't get those used either.

[MBTC]

Yep! I'm sort of happy with it! But the X/Y pad is totally useless like you know! And the pads are a sad joke also, only usable for triggering on/off buttons or clips in ableton! The rest is fine, I usually use the faders to control amp env and filter env - otherwise I wouldn't get those used either.

Yeah, I don't plan to use the X/Y pad or the drum pads at all (have Maschine for percussive things). Funny thing is I didn't think I would use the faders much, but I think I'm preferring them to knobs for many things. Not sure if it will remain that way or not. Another surprise is that I thought the endless encoders would have that firm-clicky feel like my old Remote did, but that's not the case, they feel very fluid, such that I could use them or pots without really caring which. Key action is perfect and I love the stick!

But you're right, there are surprisingly few options out there. There was a time when I was really eyeballing the Akai Max series, but I don't think they even make a 61 key, I don't need good drum pads, and now that I have a good touch fader on one of my Yahama CMC controllers as a reference point, I would absolutely not accept a touch fader as a substitute for real faders or knobs. Glad I dodged the Akai purchase.

Very happy with the controller overall, even if I don't get back around to Automap. Maybe I will, who knows.

[TweakHead]

Yep, as far as the keyboard goes it's really top notch! The joystick I really like it to, even though for some uses having the two wheels is better.

Absolutely love the MIDI interface on this thing! It's the best I've seen and that was also a big factor for me. Wish they'd get rid of the non sense features like the X/Y pad, leave the color pads for Ableton's dedicated controllers like the Launch Pad, and focus on a keyboard thought for controlling hardware and software synthesizers instead with better quality (even better) knobs and faders, and perhaps even CV input and output.

And... A full featured Arp/Sequencer of course. If you want to implement extra features, this is a good idea for any controller - specially if it's got good midi and cv connectivity!

Good build quality, a layout that resembles the best synthesizer examples and features for keyboard musicians that are serious would make my day!

[MBTC]

Just incase you've encountered this particular issue: when I turn on Automap mode, and turn Learn mode on, it says touch the control on the keyboard (which I do and it works fine), then it says click the DAW parameter and never seems to pick up the interaction with the DAW.

Any ideas? I guess I could ask Novation support, but I just had a multi-day wait from them on an UltraNova question so I don't feel like spinning that one up right now really, and it's not a deal breaker for me because I've found I like running it in Advanced Mode and just mapping to MIDI CC via Cubase quick controls. Their how-to videos on Youtube with regard to Cubase are worthless.

[TweakHead]

It's the other way around: you need to touch the parameter on the software and only then touch the physical control. If you open Automap's window, there's a menu there for installing it for your DAW of choice, with step-by-step tuturial - worked fine for Logic. It's ideal to get it fully configured because that's how you get to browse your instruments and fx and it picks the stuff you open instantly as well - if that option is selected.

[MBTC]

The way it works on mine is as I described above. I press Learn, and the little popup will say to touch a kbd control, which I do, then it says click in the DAW. If I did the reverse, it will never get past the popup that tells me to click a control first, because it's never going to receive the DAW click even if it did want things in reverse order. Hope that makes sense.

[TweakHead]

Yep, makes sense. But it's the other way around at least when working with logic. I need to touch the desired parameter first, then touch the control. Bet it's just a difference in the software we use.

But thinking about your problem. I know I had to configure the controller in Logic so that it would pick up stuff correctly - I followed the step-by-step thing I talked about. You probably need to check some options on the automap program itself, maybe the midi channels being used as well. Don't know, but it's something like that for sure. I'm pretty sure you'll get that sorted pretty fast. You're using Cubase on a PC, right?

[MBTC]

Yeah, and there's one potential clue that I'm wondering about -- when you set up the MIDI port connections in Cubase, the official Novation video shows the Remote SL MKII as having an entry for Port 1 and Port 2, where as I only see an entry for the Remote SL MKII with no mention of ports. That could be simply because something has been updated since the video made, or it could be a clue to the issue.

The other thing that is different before (my old Remote 49 with FLStudio for example) is that I've got way more MIDI enabled devices now, with the UltraNova and the CMC controllers and so forth. It could be a config issue or some sort of conflict that I'm overlooking due to the sheer amount of stuff to wade through.

But if it were a conflict it seems like there would be an issue with using Advanced mode on the board. This is clearly an Automap related issue, because without that I'm able to use things fine enough. The real motivation in getting Automap working would be mostly to be able to switch between using the faders for DAW mixer track control versus plugin control, and just for the gratification of getting everything working. I could live with it fine enough the way it is -- I wasn't even using Automap before. But something about my (tenacious I guess) nature makes me not want to give up on this until I understand all the details at least.

[TweakHead]

Yep, I didn't install following those videos on their website. It's moved to the application, I think it should be allocated next to the clock on a windows environment as well. There's a menu there where it shows the digital audio workstations installed on the system, and those that are already configured for automap. Once you select one and choose "configure" or something like this, it will present you with step-by-step instructions for properly setting up the Remote on the system. I also have the tiny Nocturn and it works seamlessly with both. I use the later for fx sends, like you'd do in a real mixer and stuff like that, and usually use the Remote just for hands on control of the synthesizers with personalized templates.

Take your time to explore the options within the Automap application as there's a lot there. For example, if I use the small Nocturn controller to control Traktor, it doesn't even use Automap, it's a user bank template and another kind of configuration is needed for this. I remember I had to turn down some options in order for it to pick up the instrument as a regular midi controller and not through the automap hub - which I think replaces regular midi in some way. But once you set it up and record it, it's always there with its name for later use and works very well.

You can adjust the pressure sensitivity on the pads to, even though it never gets anywhere near as sensitive as the pads on Maschine - but it's useful even for using it with Live if you're planning to use it for gigs.

[MBTC]

Well I tried screwing around with this a bit more, including a complete factory reset, reinstall of the OS to the MKII etc, just to be sure none of my early experimentation got in the way of progress.

I've got it such that the Automap software does now recognize both the DAW click and the HW control touch, but after trying to assign it will still say control not assigned. Everything has been set up by the book according to instructions.

Let me ask you this, when you're in Automap mode on the MKII, does your plugin indicate you're receiving MIDI data? (I assume here you have a plugin wrapper provided by the DAW that adds a few extra menu items to each plugin... Some DAWs have a MIDI recv indicator light elsewhere).

When it's in Advanced mode, the light shows recv. With Automap mode, it stays dark for me.

[MBTC]

Another tidbit, I keep forgetting that Cubase7 was a major product overhaul of Cubase (not being a user of prior versions).

Given how recent some of these posts are, I have to assume they have not yet worked out the official Automap fixes for Cubase 7. Seems some people are successfully using it with C7, but it still seems like a relatively unexplored frontier.

http://archive-forum.novationmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=194865

I guess as long as everything is a known work in progress and they are indeed working toward fixes, I can certainly live with things the way they are.

To be honest, I may end up preferring Cubase Quick Controls to Automap, because it's much easier to set up assuming you don't mind being limited to 8 controls, and that's more than I would ever need during playback/realtime automation control. I don't care as much about using knobs for non-playback sound sculpting, because I use a wireless mouse that doesn't get in the way at all, and generally offers better control for my purposes. The other nice thing about Cubase QC is you have the list of what's what right there on your left pane the whole time, with Automap I need to click the view button. Yeah I know, why not just map every plug-in consistently? Sounds good but practically impossible, i.e. some plugins have cutoff for F1,F2 etc while others have a single cutoff, etc.

I may end up preferring to avoid Automap in the long term. Would love to be able to switch between faders controlling mixer versus instrument with one button on the MKII, but its no biggie if I can't.

[llest]

What do you people think of Alesis QX keyboards?
http://www.alesis.com/qx61

[MBTC]

What do you people think of Alesis QX keyboards?
http://www.alesis.com/qx61

I eyeballed them briefly during my search - probably okay for the money, but no aftertouch, non-weighted keys and I really wanted a stick for pitch & mod.

[TweakHead]

Let me ask you this, when you're in Automap mode on the MKII, does your plugin indicate you're receiving MIDI data?



Yes, it does. Didn't thought of that myself, that's a good indicator that things are working well.

Another thing that could have gone wrong is that you need to install an "automap" version of each plug-in you want to use it with. Nowadays, that's done within the Automap application itself. Then the DAW detects them just like it would for any given plug-in, and I'm given the choice between, say, "Massive" and "Massive automap" - the former having full automap functionality.

And what about Cubase 7? Haven't tried it myself but I've used Cubase here and there. It's still the DAW of choice for a lot of producers, and sometimes I need to use it for tracks with other people - but never got to update it to the last versions, mine is v5.

Think it's very similar to Logic in depth and functions and maybe the best audio editing around - very fast and easy.

[MBTC]

I was familiar with the Automap plugin wrapping thing from my old Remote SL 49, so yes I was loading the Automap wrapped versions.

I'm not sure if you were asking what's new in Cubase 7 or not? Apparently Novation is still working out some issues with Automap compatibility. I'm traveling for a couple of days and plan to play with it when I return.

Hard for me to comment on what's new, since I hadn't used Cubase since decades back in the Atari ST days (its changed a lot). I know they completely re-did the mixer, added things to accommodate customer requests, etc. Supposedly a major difference from 6.5 and before.

[TweakHead]

Yep, was also asking about Cubase 7. Bet it's got some new killer functions. Never got to test it myself - it would be crazy to go the extra mile and update that as well XD.

But it's one that's close to my heart. For one, Quadrafuzz is something special, I know it's old, but it gives a special timbre to the simple psychedelic bass (KBBB) sound. Makes it instantly solid and it sounds good. Even the good old VB-1 was used to oblivion for that, and that combo produces a classic sound you see on many many tracks.

Same thing could be said about Logic's ES1 and ES2, or even the ESM - which doesn't recycle the notes - resampled and used on a sampler instrument. That one also has some tasty bass tones you find nowhere else.

This can sound crazy, but for some uses it's the best sound you can get. It's like when people say the Nord Lead 1 sounds better then the later versions. It probably sounds worse, since it's got better converters now, but the old gives it some kind of digital grit that people have grown used to and lush after. And it's the same with this bundled plug-ins, specially Quadrafuzz. If we compare it to FabFilter's Saturn, for example, it's a ridiculously simple plug-in with much older algorithms - but it's just the right type of saturation for some sounds. I know that because I've processed it with it, and made sampler instruments with that one on the chain for that particular sound XD. Also love the sound of the good old Tonic filter, with its own overdrive sound that's also used to oblivion but sounds very good imo. And this and that...

[feedingear]

Tweak, just copy the .dlls over. I copied over a bunch of Cubase plugs that got dumped from SX3 to 5 (quite possibly quadrafuzz).

[namnibor]

Just wanted to state although I presently use all hardware synths, have been learning little by little as suggested here on my DAW of choice Reaper and am thrilled that my Novation SL 61 MK2 is a pretty nice controller, minus the crappy response of x/y pad for my taste at least.
Also, although I may not use Automap and create my own templates for my needs, Automap 4.7 totally supports Reaper **AND** in the Automap Mappings Library, there's actually a 100% mapping for my hardware Waldorf Q rack monster synth...happy happy, joy joy ("Ren and Stimpy reference)

The audio interface I had purchased well over a year or more ago, Avid Fast Track C600 has worked but when M-Audio and Avid recently went separate ways in a mass sell-off of "prosumer products", their driver is not being updated and support for it seems to be a joke so am pretty well sold on the new Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 USB Audio Interface.

With that said, I know there's some Focusrite interface users here and wondering if anyone has some experience with this particular interface that will also allow me to use the Alesis Fusion Synth's ADAT output because this sleeper of a synth actually has 8 one quarter inch inputs to a built-in mixer as well as an 80 GB SSD that could be used in future, making this 18i20 last me a long time (theoretically). Some people I have been conversing with on homerecording.com have this new interface and is rock solid on similar PC set-up and hardware synth-based.

[MBTC]

I have the Saffire Pro 24 which I guess is similar to the Scarlett 18i20 except FireWire instead of USB and less mic preamps (and lower cost, I think the Saffire Pro 40 would be more of a Firewire equivalent in cost and features).

Overall I have nothing but good things to say about it, only thing I would do differently if buying right now is opt for the DSP version because its not much more in cost. As you know I don't have a lot of hardware to connect so the Pro 24 might not be an option for you.

I ended up with both the audio interface and monitors I have (M-Audio BX-8 ) mostly after seeing a friend's good experience with same setup. He creates some insanely clean mixes, doing some tricky stuff with vocals and acoustic instruments too, so I figured I couldn't go too wrong, plus the setup was relatively cost effective compared to other options.

[namnibor]

I have the Saffire Pro 24 which I guess is similar to the Scarlett 18i20 except FireWire instead of USB and less mic preamps (and lower cost, I think the Saffire Pro 40 would be more of a Firewire equivalent in cost and features).

Overall I have nothing but good things to say about it, only thing I would do differently if buying right now is opt for the DSP version because its not much more in cost. As you know I don't have a lot of hardware to connect so the Pro 24 might not be an option for you.

I ended up with both the audio interface and monitors I have (M-Audio BX-8 ) mostly after seeing a friend's good experience with same setup. He creates some insanely clean mixes, doing some tricky stuff with vocals and acoustic instruments too, so I figured I couldn't go too wrong, plus the setup was relatively cost effective compared to other options.

You are correct as Novation/Focusrite state the new Scarlett 18i20 **is** the USB equiv. of the Pro 24 and excellent preamps and DAC. USA pricing is $499. but I can get it for about $50. less from zzsounds but kind of rather wait until it's in-stock at Sweetwater because although they are in my neighboring State, they are only an hour North of where my parents and brother's family lives and they have an excellent return/customer service/extended warranty. I also would not have to pay sales tax if I ordered from them online/phone and free ship UPS. FYI--our politicians are attempting to make it a requirement for ALL online sales to be taxed by each respective State's rate...meanwhile huge companies such as Apple and G.E. get out of BILLIONS in Fed taxes--legally! Sorry, another rant for another place! :rolleyes:
Matter-in-fact a person whom I have been writing back and forth had the Pro 24 until a fateful day playing out without a power conditioner and the club's house electrics fried both his laptop and his Pro 24. Needless to say he recommended to me what I already have been doing in using Furman power conditioners as pretty inexpensive insurance since Furman will replace fried gear you have registered with warranty...meaning they would not have such a generous warranty if they were not shy of bullet proof:twisted: .

Thanks for your input as I thought you had posted your use of Focusrite and your contentment with them!!

[MBTC]

The Belkin power strips I use around here are only about $18 on Amazon and are insured for up to $300,000 worth of equipment, although when you consider the current cost of the Virus Ti2 it may not be enough for some folks ;)

[namnibor]

The Belkin power strips I use around here are only about $18 on Amazon and are insured for up to $300,000 worth of equipment, although when you consider the current cost of the Virus Ti2 it may not be enough for some folks ;)


I have one rack unit power/RMI/EMI/surge protector and three of the newer Furman SS-6B metal floor/otherwise boxes that have heavy duty 15 FOOT long grounded plug that has same protection as their 'Merit Series', and normally are around $$29. usd each but when Sweetwater had a short sale on them got all three for $60., which assures I can use a few different circuits in my townhouse. I believe I could run over it with a dump truck and not do a thing to it and 15 feet is really quite handy:twisted: .

I wish to correct myself in that it's the Focusrite Sapphire Pro 40 that the new Scarlett 18i20 is the USB equiv. rather than the 24. Sorry, just did not want to confuse another soul looking this info up perhaps on here in future.

Focusrite had quite a few problems with the actual software/driver DVD's they included in the Scarlett 18i6 specifically, in which quite a few people, including MAC users, had the dreaded blue screen of death. Now, we ALL know it's best to download newest direct from any manufacturer's website rather than the disc as a "general rule", but now the new Scarlett 18i20 does not even come with any disc and a person is directed to go to site and do all that before ever connecting interface. No idea why it was that particular interface's DVD but I really like all the helpful information and tech support Focusrite gives for their products and the new, tidier forum is quite nice as well.
I probably would not use Automap for my Waldorf Q Rack Synth, as the abundant knobs/buttons make it a breeze to go deep down it's monster rabbit hole. Just thought it was cool a sound designer submitted a total Automap for Novation and the library list of hardware and software has grown exponential in last year. What I like about the Remote SL61MKII controller is I can easily make my own assignments to all four, 8 stage loop able envelopes and each of three oscillators and two wavetable sub-oscillators, to have as much access as the much more heavily knob adorned Q keyboard. Key action is not bad at all but aforementioned, find the x/y pad pretty useless and love/hate relationship with the rather odd joystick.

Need to figure out most efficient way to utilize both midi out ports to make a few rack synths play nice with each, the interface, and PC in a midi daisy chain. Any advice here on latter point? Still reading........:cool:

[MBTC]

I'm probably not a good person to ask about any elaborate hardware setups, since aside from the UltraNova, Maschine, the MKII and CMC-CH and CHC-AI controllers, everything else in my environment currently is software based, but maybe someone else will chime in.

Although I will add one possible consideration... the reason I went with Firewire actually was with an eye toward future Virus ownership (or UltraNova or any USB-integrated synth). Based on a past experience with a Ti2, I put a dedicated USB3.0 card in my music PC to handle things music and USB related. However, since audio streaming can be a real hog, and my Firewire port on the mobo wasn't doing anything, I thought it might be better to put all of that on Firewire and leave the USB for other things (synths). I don't know, call me superstitious. So far however it has worked out very well, both the interface and the Firewire port get along splendidly as does the Ultranova with the USB card. May be a consideration for you if you have a spare Firewire port.... up against USB 2 it is faster.

[namnibor]

:twisted: My DAW PC build has high speed USB 2 ports that can handle I believe 4X normal powering capabilities. Have a couple USB 3 as well. I made a newbie mistake in not getting an TI Chipset Firewire 400 and it is a VIA 6308. Everything else about the build is right on and I wrongly assumed that something like Firewire would be "standardized" like the Universal Serial Bus/USB is and I did not want to take the chance and expense of FW interface if it was going to give me issues simply because it's not TI Chipset. Yes, I KNOW I can buy a separate FW card and have plenty of expansion space to do so but since USB 2.0 audio interfaces have come a long way and most probably will not get a Virus Ti anytime soon, and to be honest if and when I do, will wait to see what Access releases next and hopefully utilizing full bandwidth before I go down that road.
If anything, since I have a lot of great hardware synths, it would be something along lines of a standalone/vst such as Izotope Iris; intense sampling and mangling of field recordings coupled with the hardware currently have, not really foreseeing myself growing tired of options. Both of my 1 TB 7200rpm 64mb cache drives are internal and will use my eSATA port to back up to external third 2 TB drive. Plan on putting visual art experience in learning some non-linear video editing as well to go with sonic creations.
Perhaps an expensive hobby to another's perspective but hell, what I have done in a military career to finally be retired and disabled from it with nice pension...screw them! HA!:twisted:
(I think someone paying $600. to Apple for a cell phone is crazy:rolleyes: , let alone same person would probably buy a piece of my cat's crap if it had an Apple logo on it...:twisted: )
Love to learn, love music, creativity, fast cars, writing my book...still, and am not abusing small animals nor myself with substances...and lastly, getting back into music has been very therapeutic for military induced PTSD(for real).
I do hear you on the FW thing though and manned-up to my newbie screw-up.
JUST WHY is a TI Chipset better when that nexus is going to same place on the motherboard any other FW would? Inquiring mind would like to know.

[namnibor]

My FW Chipset is VIA 6308...correction

[MBTC]

One of the things I like about the PC is the fact that I can just put new cards in it all day long if needed, or tear down any part of it and replace with something faster if needed.

FWIW, the Firewire chipset on my mobo is apparently VIA and it works flawlessly. I do remember reading something about the TI chipset being preferred with Focusrite interfaces but maybe they've worked that out or I just got lucky? I had some initial speedbumps with that PC, but they all went away when I removed the Creative X-Fi card that was apparently causing conflicts.

As far as why TI is better, it's most likely just a recommendation for those buying new today maybe? Sometimes a manufacturer will make a recommendation like that if they run into a situation where, during initial testing, a device works properly 95% of the time with one chipset but only 70% of the time with another chipset.... but then the chipset in question gets a flash update or whatever such that equal compatibility in both is eventually reached, yet all of those internet posts remain and even sometimes official documentation is never updated, the chipset is just deemed incompatible and lives on. I was fully prepared to drop another card in if needed to get it off the USB bus, its probably like a $10 card but the gods were on my side on that one and I never needed to.

[namnibor]

Thank you for that comment as I know for instance an AI was seriously considering was the PreSonus Firewire Mobile or Firestudio Project AI where PreSonus stated the VIA 6308 worked but issues *could* arise at higher track counts. The native soundcard in my build is made by VIA as well but has been simple enough to totally disable it and select outboard audio interface as my card with no conflicts and will always totally disable Norton 360 when doing audio stuff as the only time this build is on the net is to download drivers, et al and certainly want that protection whilst doing those things but my laptop is my internet use machine. The DAW build is just for that with absolutely no bloatware nor games...and have it optimized for audio/video. This AMD+ 6100FX 3.3GHz, 6 core with 12 GB RAM and NVIDIA GT430 w/2GB can be overclocked quite a bit and have ample cooling but really feel it will serve my purposes well. I made sure to not have a wireless card in DAW build just to ensure it's not randomly wanting to search for a connection.
Yes, having tons of space in tower to pop-in this or that certainly is easier than a laptop. I have WIN 7 64 bit Home Prem. and NO plans of going WIN 8.

[TweakHead]

This thread keeps going and always interesting. Well, I own a firewire (800) interface myself connected to my imac - which is my main music computer. Never had any issues with it, didn't require me to install any drivers, it was plug and play bliss.

If I was to go for the Virus - that, like namnibor said, would like to wait and see what comes next from Access before making such decision - I think I could manage to use wireless connection for both keyboard and mouse if in any way having a free usb bus would help get things going. However, if that's the case it would be a shame, since I have only three USB ports on the Imac (without counting the two extra on the keyboard, which is really like a hub), and the usb hub I bought that doesn't count even for plugging the midi keyboard, despite having it's own power supply and all of that. On the Remote SL, if I plug it to this hub, the screen is somewhat duller, seems like it doesn't get all the energy it should - so that's connected directly to the USB port as well.

Those sound cards you guys are talking about are very good from what I ear and the DSP one was highly recommended - I considered it myself back when I was going for such things. Sure you can't go wrong.

I don't know if I'd buy a sound card with connections to cover such a vast hardware setup. If this was me, I'd rather invest in some good mixer - check for noise-to-signal ratio on them, very important! At least that's what I plan to do myself: connect the hardware to the mixer instead of buying a new sound card with more connections - with the extra bonus of being able to introduce an analogue EQ on the path of course - and being able to create an audio loop for mixing the sub groups of audio from the DAW. Seems pretty convenient to me, and if I plan to get some external effects that's also covered and can even use the sends on the mixer for that as well.

" I have WIN 7 64 bit Home Prem. and NO plans of going WIN 8." Wise words :twisted:
Cheers

[MBTC]

" I have WIN 7 64 bit Home Prem. and NO plans of going WIN 8." Wise words :twisted:
Cheers

I actually have to disagree with this. There's been lots of evidence to support Windows 8 as better than Windows 7 with regard to music production. The whole metro interface thing does take some getting used to and still bugs me sometimes, but check out these benchmarks and keep in mind this comes to us from Cakewalk/Roland, who has absolutely no motivation to get you to upgrade to Windows 8:

http://blog.cakewalk.com/windows-8-a-benchmark-for-music-production-applications/

From the summary : "The results of the benchmarks were surprisingly good! Windows 8 performed better than Windows 7 across the board in all categories, and in many cases with fairly dramatic performance gains."

[MBTC]

Also forgot to mention, as we drift farther from MIDI keyboard recommendations :)...

Supposedly they are bringing back the Start button/menu and addressing some other common complaints in Windows 8.1:

http://www.neowin.net/news/start-button-returning-in-windows-81-with-updated-charms-bar-insiders-claim

[MBTC]

Thank you for that comment as I know for instance an AI was seriously considering was the PreSonus Firewire Mobile or Firestudio Project AI where PreSonus stated the VIA 6308 worked but issues *could* arise at higher track counts.

I guess it is possible I may run into issues at higher track counts that I have not yet seen. However, when I was troubleshooting around the conflict I had with the Creative card in same PC, all of the posts I read sounded a lot like what I was experiencing even in easily-simulated test scenarios (for example I was able to make things go horribly sideways by adding a few instances of Massive or Diva for example). I've also loaded up some projects which were pretty heavy in terms of overall tracks/load and all seemed fine. Admittedly though that potentially be different with lots of hardware? Not sure..but if I ever run into problems my backup plan is to just drop a dedicated Firewire card in.

[namnibor]

I actually have to disagree with this. There's been lots of evidence to support Windows 8 as better than Windows 7 with regard to music production. The whole metro interface thing does take some getting used to and still bugs me sometimes, but check out these benchmarks and keep in mind this comes to us from Cakewalk/Roland, who has absolutely no motivation to get you to upgrade to Windows 8:

http://blog.cakewalk.com/windows-8-a-benchmark-for-music-production-applications/

From the summary : "The results of the benchmarks were surprisingly good! Windows 8 performed better than Windows 7 across the board in all categories, and in many cases with fairly dramatic performance gains."

To keep on-subject, if not for but this one sentence; I think Novation has always been well-ahead of likes of M-Audio in this department going back to their VA Synths such as the X Station, which was not only a capable synth but an all-out audio interface and controller in one. No idea what the Novation Impulse line is like but am glad I went with the Remote SL 61MkII because Automap or not, for me and most of us its the feel of the keys and my top requirement of After Touch, as I find it an invaluable creative routing option for things a lot of people never think of like Breath Control.

Now, I wanted to tell Tweakhead that I do INDEED have what I deem a "pre-mixer" for my hardware synths that is an older Kawai Keyboard Mixer that not only has individual sends for my Lexicon MPX110 at either pre or post-fader AND this ahead of its time utilitarian mixer actually has one MIDI IN and THREE MIDI THRU ports, effectively serving as a midi merge device that's not connected to the audio input signal. Even though sending that mixer's output to AI, if I desire of course to do a sister midi track for some automation am aware this will be effortless to make those connections to do so.
The Focusrite Mix Control on their interfaces seems to be incredibly flexible. Yesterday, got an email that stated Automap has yet another update and supportive of WIN 8 and USB 3 ports. That's great info from Roland regarding benchmarks on WIN 8. I am not being "a stick in the mud" about WIN 7, however, there's MANY people that still utilize WIN XP for audio. Not to mention all those folks that have Clavia Nord Modular that Nord seemed to have dropped them off the train and left them for dead as far as any support post WIN XP or past MAC O.S.--anyone ever wonder why Nord dropped such an innovative hardware/software integration synth?

[TweakHead]

Not to mention all those folks that have Clavia Nord Modular that Nord seemed to have dropped them off the train and left them for dead as far as any support post WIN XP or past MAC O.S.--anyone ever wonder why Nord dropped such an innovative hardware/software integration synth?

No clue. But the Nord Modular G2 isn't old enough to justify completely dropping support on the software side of it - and for this particular product, without the software the synthesizer is rendered almost useless besides the patches you have stored into its internal memory. This is what will probably happen to some of our software synthesizers of the old age. For example, just recently support was dropped on Albino 3 - which was still a very good VA software synthesizer on its own right, needing only unisson to stand up against anything in the market even today. It's a sad situation for such a lovely machines that have been used to oblivion in many modern tracks and are still mentioned a lot by many accomplished producers. But it is what it is... I guess, as far as the Modular is concerned, you can always set up a partition with an older version of windows or mac, or even a virtual machine just for being able to use the software to create new patches. But, by all means, Clavia should get a kick in the but for it. And so should Rob Papen being so greedy about his god damn presets - which btw no real producer cares for since they're mostly garbage compared to what you can do with that beast of a synthesizer programming it yourself...

When we buy a product we expect the company to keep up with the promise and at least keep supporting the stuff we paid for. There's also the powercore dsp that was able to run the virus synthesizer that is now dead, right Berni? We should gather all the music folks and kick some serious developers but if you ask me! :twisted:

[namnibor]

Maybe just place a glass crystal dome over them all and all disgruntled musicians take a group fart in their general direction:D !!
You are not the first to have grievance toward that sound designer as there's people that own the Microwave 1 in which is dependent on large external memory card to place one's new sounds on or import new waves and sounds in that machine and will just say it's outright highway robbery what is charged for them with a damn disclaimer that they are his sounds and cannot be utilized in commercial realm nor sold in any way or form.
I say just make your own sounds because it's by very nature of trial and error and using one's ears, a person becomes a synthesis or better yet synthesis.
Do not mean to be 'snarky', but Tweakhead's words are very wise in making one's own trademark sound rather than continuing the 'cookie cutter' syndrome.

[MBTC]

No clue. But the Nord Modular G2 isn't old enough to justify completely dropping support on the software side of it - and for this particular product, without the software the synthesizer is rendered almost useless besides the patches you have stored into its internal memory. This is what will probably happen to some of our software synthesizers of the old age. For example, just recently support was dropped on Albino 3 - which was still a very good VA software synthesizer on its own right, needing only unisson to stand up against anything in the market even today. It's a sad situation for such a lovely machines that have been used to oblivion in many modern tracks and are still mentioned a lot by many accomplished producers. But it is what it is... I guess, as far as the Modular is concerned, you can always set up a partition with an older version of windows or mac, or even a virtual machine just for being able to use the software to create new patches. But, by all means, Clavia should get a kick in the but for it. And so should Rob Papen being so greedy about his god damn presets - which btw no real producer cares for since they're mostly garbage compared to what you can do with that beast of a synthesizer programming it yourself...

When we buy a product we expect the company to keep up with the promise and at least keep supporting the stuff we paid for. There's also the powercore dsp that was able to run the virus synthesizer that is now dead, right Berni? We should gather all the music folks and kick some serious developers but if you ask me! :twisted:

I'm aware of Albino support being dropped, but aside from that most of my soft synths that were purchased many years ago are still getting great support. Recent example includes e-mails I've received direct from Urs (Zebra developer) who is not too busy to care about supporting software I paid for back in 2007. Lennard, developer of Sylenth1 has also been helpful many years after the sale had long transpired.

Overall I would say software support in the soft-synth world is way better than one can expect from mainstream business software. The bottom line there is that software is not just a one-time purchase. It must exist in an ecosystem that is subject to constant change -- OS updates, driver updates, DAW/Host updates, etc will all have some impact on your software's ability to continue operating in the future. This is not a phenomenon specific to music software, but all software in general.

When a software company's revenue stream dissolves, there is simply nothing left to continue paying employees. It's not a matter of ripping off the consumer, it's a matter of survival. This is one reason the industry has gone more toward "software as a service", such that people pay a monthly or annual fee to use software on a per-user license level. This helps rid them of the false thinking that "okay I bought this software, it should work forever".

With all of that said, I think all my VST plug-ins have an amazing record of continuing to work, regardless of whether I update them. I think that says something about the relatively non-volatile nature of the VST specification; it is not something that tends to get affected by Windows or OSX updates for example.

Dedicated hardware that attaches to your computer is another matter, as there is usually some type of proprietary driver or software (i.e. Automap) involved. I'm not sure why the Powercore DSP was discontinued, but I suspect there was a point at which it was clear that sales growth would not sustain support costs (only a guess.... typically when something makes a lot of money it tends to not get discontinued).

I have worked at companies where I've witnessed absolute tragedy with regard to engineering staff cuts. By that, I mean that decisions were made by douchebag bean-counters and upper management know-nothings that resulted in the layoffs of key engineers that were required to keep the product line going. Yes, the layoffs were made without the realization by management and accounting types that they just cut off the lifeline to their own company by firing the only few guys that understood how things worked. The stupidity can be that rampant. So I have seen products be discontinued because of that sort of error in management, but it's not the only cause of course.

Overall, I think we should be thankful at the type of software and gear (or in many cases software INSTEAD of gear) that we can buy these days. When I first got into electronic music, you could easily spend $20k (which would probably be more like 3 or 4 times that in today's money) and still not have enough to produce a professional track. And in those days, a typical synthesizer cost several thousand dollars but was almost guaranteed to be discontinued a couple of years later. I think all products undergo this type of lifecycle.

At the end of the day though, with a software based environment, in theory if you are content with what you have, it's irrelevant that the software has been discontinued. Like namnibor said, some people still run XP!! If they plan to evolve they are kind of screwed because they are sitting on a ticking time bomb.... some software update will eventually come along that will make them regret that, unless they decide to lock down their system, no more updates or new software, and just consider that the last music making box they will need for the rest of their lives. In fact they could just image the hard drive and carry the environment forward to a new PC whenever their current hardware's life came to an end. I've heard of things much more absurd.... I know some people kept their original Atari ST sequencing environments going, as-is without modification or maintenance for something like 20 years! For all I know there may still be some out there doing all their production on them or Amigas.

For me I don't think I could ever just lock things down and fall outside the normal lifecycle of updates and deprecation of products. Trying new things is part of what keeps me inspired and interested in the hobby of synths. And none of my investment in softsynths has required any physical repair :) .... I've seen guys already having to replace keys in the keybed of their Virus Tis!!

[TweakHead]

I agree with what you just said. But on the other hand: if you consider such things as the Adobe's Creative Suite, how many people do you think have really explored the possibilities of the third version, let alone the latest? More often then not, we already have the tools we need at our disposal and marketing gets us excited about the latest advances. But we tend not to think it through, the really hard question, which is: do I really need this new features? So if there's someone out there still relying on their Amiga for Midi orchestration of instruments, that system is rock solid and stable for doing so.

I read an interview with Fat Boy Slim in some magazine (it's a few months old, might have been Future Music or something like that, can search for it if you guys want) where he stated that he was used to his good old Akai MPC and couldn't get his head around Ableton Live that he now owns. The simple change in the interface and the way of working made one of the most successful players on the EDM scene of the 90's feeling like he's got to catch the pace and start from 0. My opinion about that: if it works for you, keep it! Specially when it comes to hardware, there's no such thing as out of fashion. Who would imagine in the 90's that analogue would make such a return? Back then people were simply considering digital to be the obvious evolution, adding more polyphony, more complex waves and types of synthesis into the mix.

You're a software developer. So you can shed some light into this, I'm sure. I'm the kind of person who think that the system requirements for such things as an Office Suite are simply mad. It's been doing just the same thing for as long as I can remember and one of this days it will take a 4 year old top notch gaming computer to run the new version of Microsoft Word that I'm sure will be great but will still be focused on "word processing". I came to such conclusions after setting up a machine (a laptop) with a Linux operating system (mint 14 cinnamon) that comes packed with an Office Suite and tons of tools that work exactly like those we usually pay big bucks for. I'm not going for value for the money here, I'm going for performance and the feeling I get that companies push the limits in order for people to keep buying new hardware to run it - while having the exact approximate performance they had before, just with more fancy looks and color schemes.

In music software this isn't exactly true, because all it takes is to launch Diva and you get the feeling that evolution is actually happening here. But I'm sure there's much more love involved and honest hard work as well, compared to big greedy as hell companies such as Microsoft. Many times we're buying what we already have and worked just fine over and over and if there's a brand new processor that's like a million times faster then our first computer, the coders surely will find a way to make it slow again by using redundant code, by wasting system resources on needless stuff that sits next to the clock and stuff like that.

One of the advantages of music hardware to me is that it's out of this equation. 2 cents.

[namnibor]

THAT is exactly why my dedicated DAW PC build is indeed *just* for efficiently doing audio and some video editing and with Reaper, I am guaranteed a few years at least in future of absolutely free upgrades and features that even to this day the so called industry standard, AVID Pro Tools users, still do not have the flexibility and even some cool features that an open source DAW in which the dedicated developers *actively and fervently* listen to their huge user base in order to implement or even improve/tweak things; at $60. for a non-commercial license, this pleases me because even on the Cockos Reaper Forum, you get support from people that do not have pretentious snarky attitudes. You would be surprised at how many Pro Tools users have switched and AVID being asses, they have gone out of their way to ensure that REWIRE is a mess if a Reaper user tries to integrate within AVID products to include the video editing products AVID owns.
I am not trying to "sell" Reaper to anyone but their philosophy is very much akin to how LINUX is to Microsoft/Apple, giving people freedom to say even remain working perfectly fine on a 3.0 version of Reaper while a 4.7 newest edition is out.
Consumerism and marketing irks the hell out of me and some people really are slaves to it to point on another forum someone was actually trying to tell me that I was a "dinosaur musician" for preferring hardware synths and I did not feed into the argument when they started down the path that the Virus is surpassed by software/vsti and how the Virus sounds "thin" and how effects are only way it sounds beyond thin!:confused: All I replied with is, "...and this is coming from someone that utilizes vsti's solely and has no issues oxymoronically stating/boasting about how they had plethora of vsti effects at their disposal for much better sound design than hardware?!!!":twisted:

As far as midi controllers go, Novation's announcement few days ago of new Automap upgrade ALSO added Automap to ALL their LEGACY controllers as well! That is very smart and progressive thinking. Am liking Novation/Focusrite more and more as I see a company that ALSO listens to their customers and has excellent customer support.
Early morning coffee rant over!!

[MBTC]

I agree with what you just said. But on the other hand: if you consider such things as the Adobe's Creative Suite, how many people do you think have really explored the possibilities of the third version, let alone the latest? More often then not, we already have the tools we need at our disposal and marketing gets us excited about the latest advances. But we tend not to think it through, the really hard question, which is: do I really need this new features? So if there's someone out there still relying on their Amiga for Midi orchestration of instruments, that system is rock solid and stable for doing so.

Adobe CS is one of those apps that I have to own, as a course of work, but it's really a side tool that's not essential to the primary type of work I do, soI tend to not always keep it upgraded to the latest and greatest and when I do upgrade, I just pass the cost along to clients.

But keep in mind Adobe CS is geared toward guys that develop graphics for web, desktop apps and mobile devices. That landscape is always changing (particularly mobile) and new features emerge to cover different scenarios. They may be features that don't matter to you or me if we are not professional graphics designers (I'm certainly not), but they might matter to alarge portion of the community.

The question then becomes, if you don't need professional-grade software, could you get by with something like Photoshop Elements or whatever their low-end offering is? Or maybe you could use something much less expensive altogether like Pixelmator for Mac, or the completely free-of-charge Paint.Net for Windows?

The scenario is just like the difference in buying a $300 home grade lawnmower versus a $3000 professional grade mower. Buy what you need and the maintenance costwill fall in line with your needs.

With software, the maintenance cost is not only to cover new features, but to cover the cost of the labor *just to keep what you have going*. Most of the time, software will not just continue working without maintenance attention, because of the evolving landscape of updates around it.

I readan interview with Fat Boy Slim in some magazine (it's a few months old, mighthave been Future Music or something like that, can search for it if you guyswant) where he stated that he was used to his good old Akai MPC and couldn'tget his head around Ableton Live that he now owns. The simple change in theinterface and the way of working made one of the most successful players on theEDM scene of the 90's feeling like he's got to catch the pace and start from 0. My opinion about that: if it works for you, keep it! Specially when it comes tohardware, there's no such thing as out of fashion. Who would imagine in the90's that analogue would make such a return? Back then people were simplyconsidering digital to be the obvious evolution, adding more polyphony, morecomplex waves and types of synthesis into the mix.

The example with Fat Boy Slim presents an interesting dilemma in EDM and maybe music in general..... should a musician keep using the same methods to create music or should they let their musical style evolve with the times? Now consider that in EDM, the music tends tobe highly technology dependent and appeals to people excited about technology. Technology must remain innovative to remain exciting. Somefolks will respect an artist or band for not betraying their original musicalstyle if they decide to stay the course with their musical style. Some will chastize them for not moving past it. If they do move past it, a certain percentage of folks will say their old stuff is better, without realizing theold stuff was innovative and creative at the time but would not seem ascreative if it were released in modern times. It's just a dilemma every artist faces... But for many folks in EDM,which is so tech-based, we are partially driven by the love of music but alsofor the gadget geek inside us, and that geek side of us does better wheninspired or excited by technology. This is why sometimes adding a new soft-synth to my already oversized collection sometimes inspires me to make music. Just a different UI and a different typeof sound can inspire me to explore new sound possibilities.

You're a software developer. So you can shedsome light into this, I'm sure. I'm the kind of person who think that the system requirements for such things as an Office Suite are simply mad. It'sbeen doing just the same thing for as long as I can remember and one of thisdays it will take a 4 year old top notch gaming computer to run the new versionof Microsoft Word that I'm sure will be great but will still be focused on"word processing". I came to such conclusions after setting up amachine (a laptop) with a Linux operating system (mint 14 cinnamon) that comes packed with an Office Suite and tons of tools that work exactly like those weusually pay big bucks for. I'm not going for value for the money here, I'mgoing for performance and the feeling I get that companies push the limits inorder for people to keep buying new hardware to run it - while having the approximate performance they had before, just with more fancy looks and colorschemes.

In music software this isn't exactly true, because all it takes is to launch Diva and you get the feeling that evolution is actually happening here. But I'msure there's much more love involved and honest hard work as well, compared tobig greedy as hell companies such as Microsoft. Many times we're buying what wealready have and worked just fine over and over and if there's a brand new processor that's like a million times faster then our first computer, thecoders surely will find a way to make it slow again by using redundant code, by wasting system resources on needless stuff that sits next to the clock andstuff like that.


Well as I said, the dilemma with software is that when a single retail priceis charged for it, some buyers have this expectation that they have justpurchased the last word processor they will ever need. They believe they have purchased something like a tangible piece of furniture that should last a lifetime with little or no maintenance.

The truth is, software is much more like a car... it is an ongoing expenseno matter what. If you don't maintain it, it will eventually fails. Maintaining it costs money. Software is similar even though our minds seem to fail to accept it as requiring constant maintenance. Accepting maintenance cost for something tangible and hard like an automobile or home is somehow easier for the human brain to accept.

Microsoft Office needs to constantly maintained by a large team ofdevelopers. Developer labor is very expensive. If nobody upgrades or ever buys the new offered feature, the product must be discontinued. At some point it would just stop working,because the operating system it works on would always be evolving. Why does the OS need to evolve? Can't they just write Windows or OSX once,call it done, then that's the last operating system version anyone would ever need? After all, doesn't it do the samething it did 30 years ago?

Well first of all, you have very real security issues to deal with in OS development. Hackers, terrorists, and general miscreants are constantly trying to chip away at the OS, sometimes forcomplex motive and sometimes just to prove they can do it.

Without constant OS updates, some hacker will eventually be able to write a trojan horse that runs on your computer and mines bitcoins whenever your computer is powered up, depositing bitcoins into his account and making sure your computer is barely usable for music and that your electricity bill quadruples from its monthly average. If nobody is constantly safeguarding the OS against that sort of thing, you are eventually toast. Changes to the OS mean eventual changes to anyor all of the software that runs atop it. That's just the way software works.

You do have the option of just disconnecting yourself from the Internet, but that's a little like protecting yourself from the germs of the world by never leaving the house, IMO. I have heard some people say they disconnect their music computer from the Internet in orderto have a more stable environment for music production, but I'm not sure that'sany better than just keeping generally good security practices.

And, at the end of the day, if you really did disconnect from the Internet with all your computers and hardware, you would at some point be dealing with failing hardware that is no longer repairable because it's no longer supportedby the company that made it (they cannot afford to keep paying the support staff for years or decades if there is no income stream to pay their salary).

One of the advantages of music hardware to meis that it's out of this equation. 2 cents.

Sort of, but in some ways I see it as the same because hardware has a finite lifecycle, and without inbound revenue it must be discontinued and it will eventually fail and need repair, thus costing you money. What's worse, it could reach a point where itis not repairable to original spec or original parts are simply not available.

[MBTC]

THAT is exactly why my dedicated DAW PC build is indeed *just* for efficiently doing audio and some video editing and with Reaper, I am guaranteed a few years at least in future of absolutely free upgrades and features that even to this day the so called industry standard, AVID Pro Tools users, still do not have the flexibility and even some cool features that an open source DAW in which the dedicated developers *actively and fervently* listen to their huge user base in order to implement or even improve/tweak things; at $60. for a non-commercial license, this pleases me because even on the Cockos Reaper Forum, you get support from people that do not have pretentious snarky attitudes. You would be surprised at how many Pro Tools users have switched and AVID being asses, they have gone out of their way to ensure that REWIRE is a mess if a Reaper user tries to integrate within AVID products to include the video editing products AVID owns.
I am not trying to "sell" Reaper to anyone but their philosophy is very much akin to how LINUX is to Microsoft/Apple, giving people freedom to say even remain working perfectly fine on a 3.0 version of Reaper while a 4.7 newest edition is out.
Consumerism and marketing irks the hell out of me and some people really are slaves to it to point on another forum someone was actually trying to tell me that I was a "dinosaur musician" for preferring hardware synths and I did not feed into the argument when they started down the path that the Virus is surpassed by software/vsti and how the Virus sounds "thin" and how effects are only way it sounds beyond thin!:confused: All I replied with is, "...and this is coming from someone that utilizes vsti's solely and has no issues oxymoronically stating/boasting about how they had plethora of vsti effects at their disposal for much better sound design than hardware?!!!":twisted:

As far as midi controllers go, Novation's announcement few days ago of new Automap upgrade ALSO added Automap to ALL their LEGACY controllers as well! That is very smart and progressive thinking. Am liking Novation/Focusrite more and more as I see a company that ALSO listens to their customers and has excellent customer support.
Early morning coffee rant over!!

If you like the idea of all future upgrades for free, you might try FLStudio, it is "purchase once and all upgrades free for life". Their revenue model depends soley on new signups and sales of new plugins... sometimes their plugin offerings are pretty good and they may get some more of your money that way :) But it is nice to get the primary DAW, all new features for free etc.

About Linux, there is no comparison to Windows/OSX there, and that's one reason it has almost zero marketshare as a desktop OS, why developing for it is a fragmented clusterfuck, and why nobody goes with Linux as a audio production environment.

About software vs. hardware sound.... in the very few attempts at somewhat scientific tests I've seen, where all things are equal and in a blind test, most people cannot tell whether a given sound is coming from a soft-synth or hardware. That's not to say it is the final word, in fact I'm surprised there have not been more properly conducted scientific studies around this. But one that I have heard universal agreement on, even from the hardware vendors themselves, is that by the time the sound ends up on the final mix, nobody, even the engineers at Moog, can tell the difference between the sound of hard vs. software synths. Does anyone here really listen to EDM and believe they can correctly identify when they are hearing a HW board or soft synth? If so I could recommend a show I recently saw on TV where these self-proclaimed vampires were looking for blood donors on Craigslist... they swore that drinking human blood energized them... lol

If anyone has links to scientific tests that show hardware can be conclusively distinguishable from software in a final mix, I would be glad to read them with an open mind. Just haven't seen them to date.

[MBTC]

Meant to come back and update this thread for future reference.

The problem I ran into with Automap not working was not a Cubase issue, but the fact that I was running Cubase as an administrator (not even sure why I did that but I set the desktop icon to run as admin, and because Automap was not running as admin it could not communicate... this is why it was working in other DAWs that I don't use as much).

I also ran into a few recent freezes/audio hiccups, and I remembered a recent discussion here about Focusrite Firewire interfaces (and pretty much every other high-bandwidth Firewire devices) requiring the TI chipset on the 1394 port. So, just to eliminate possibilities I plonked a dedicated Firewire card into the PC today and disabled the built-in VIA 1394 chipset on the mobo. Only time will tell if it solves the occasional freeze, as I have not had much chance to experiment since the upgrade. If you have a strong interest in knowing if it made a difference or not, check back with me in a couple of months for some reflective thoughts on the upgrade and so forth :)

[namnibor]

Yes, avidly interested. However, my brand new Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 arrived today (USB equiv. to Sapphire Pro 40) and now when my health crap is not interrupting, am furiously putting my new ergonomic set-up back together once my new 9'x13' one inch thick red wool area rug arrives June 5. (Was time for something kinder to my neuropathic feet as I tend to stand a good part of time in my now "U-shaped" hardware configuration that seamlessly integrates to my computer DAW desk at angle in corner with hardware synth racks handily to my right for knob tweaking when indeed setting at large screen with Reaper and easy/fast to stand up and go to various synths with keys integrated) Am using the Virus KB currently as an excellent controller for my Q Rack and XT Rack and the Virus KC is of course to be used as she is intended to.

I went with high speed USB interface because Focusrite has a real handle on using full bandwidth for high track counts and active monitoring with no audible latency rather than replacing the VIA 6308 1694 Firewire Card and then having to more than likely go back into the AMD BIOS and re-configure everything/optimized for audio as it is perfect right now and will be honest, although have all the books and discs for performing all those tweaks, it is not MY strong point in knowledge, yet!:rolleyes:

[MBTC]

Let us know how you like the Scarlett.

I didn't have to do too much BIOS tweaking when I got the Saffire running on the new firewire card other than the fact that I just disabled the onboard 1394 port in order to prevent potential confusion between the two in software.

I mostly went a firewire model (A) because I wanted to keep my dedicated USB 3 card clear for potential Virus TI maybe in the future and based on my past experience with TI I figured it might make diagnosing things easier in the future.... i.e. if I run into a problem with audio streaming, latency etc. at least I wouldn't be left to wonder if its a conflict with another USB port or device (B) I can use as a Thunderbolt interface just by using an adapter if I need to in the future. Really would have liked to get an Apollo, but could not justify that much money on the audio interface alone for my needs.

[namnibor]

Let us know how you like the Scarlett.

I didn't have to do too much BIOS tweaking when I got the Saffire running on the new firewire card other than the fact that I just disabled the onboard 1394 port in order to prevent potential confusion between the two in software.

I mostly went a firewire model (A) because I wanted to keep my dedicated USB 3 card clear for potential Virus TI maybe in the future and based on my past experience with TI I figured it might make diagnosing things easier in the future.... i.e. if I run into a problem with audio streaming, latency etc. at least I wouldn't be left to wonder if its a conflict with another USB port or device (B) I can use as a Thunderbolt interface just by using an adapter if I need to in the future. Really would have liked to get an Apollo, but could not justify that much money on the audio interface alone for my needs.

I also have a dedicated USB 3 card with two of those connections for potential future use. Will not be running *anything* on any other USB 2 ports other than a wired keyboard and mouse. It was recommended to ditch the USB wireless mouse and keyboard due to something like that is ALWAYS seeking a connection and to me, eliminating a potential headache was worth the really inexpensive replacement. That recommendation came from Sweetwater Support and although not an absolute, why have a potential need to reboot whilst in middle of creativity because of a stupid wireless mouse and keyboard? My rather large area rug arrives Tuesday and Waldorf Pulse Plus arrives Wednesday:grin:. So, I have a bit of chance to take the vacuum in places admittedly does not so much normally go while making some 'mental candy changes' in large living room, where my synth set-up and DAW work area resides at far end, maximizing space. Will certainly give feedback on the Scarlett in a week or so and definitely post some music contributions as well much later in year.

On Topic: Have you looked into any of the Keith McMillian Instruments or LIVID Controllers? At least *someone* is looking way outside the box!!!

[MBTC]

Haven't really looked into any new controllers since getting the MKII... it meets my needs pretty well. When I browse the product lines of those two, I think "hmm... more buttons and knobs... nice... but not sure what I'd use them for".

I have thought seriously about picking up one of these, though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm-U44kNtmI&feature=youtu.be

[namnibor]

VERY cool and funny, was just conversing with guy in Netherlands from DSI Forum on alternate controllers and I mentioned to him I read that Steffan Trippler, when doing some sound design for the DSI MEK, he routed Breath Control very often to one of the two expression pedal inputs for really interesting sounds:D

[TweakHead]

Interesting stuff! Look at this one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtvIHMW9EjY

[namnibor]

Interesting stuff! Look at this one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtvIHMW9EjY

Very cool! Had seen these in some issue a few years back Keyboard Magazene or on their website when you subscribe for $12. for a whole year of hard copy mag's you get access to ALOT more stuff and there's a great forum there as well--FYI However, I had no idea this company was in Atlanta, GA, USA and will be ordering one after I ask a few questions via email support to them.

On their website, http://vmeter.net/pages/Instructions-Download , they state Cockos Reaper is ENTIRELY supported.....:D

It looks like if you are just working with software instruments, it's a pretty easy integration whereas with say our Virus or most hardware synths, would need the suggested Kenton Midi Bridge to interface with actual synth then of course since audio output will reflect how you have set it up on their set-up utility, would then be recording whatever you do with the VMeter.

Conversely, since Reaper is entirely supported and Reaper allows audio and midi to be all in same track with both fully editable, this controller should be able to used while recording any hardware synth in Reaper...theoretically.

I am not understanding the need to download something called "Max" and will freely admit still learning and will be forever, but always kind of thought that was just an Ableton Live thing....eduMaCate me...anyone?!!

Very Cool! (BTW, have new 9'x13'x1"thick RED wool area rug down in newly configured work area. Spent yesterday doing a lot and today resting sore back/body, now finally wiring everything up so studio finally finished by mid-next week...health crap can often get in way)

On Topic: I will be picking your brains on some things with Novation Remote SL61MKii Controller, since I think at least Tweakhead has a version of it too, on things maybe not clear or not easily found on Novation Forum firstly. I know there's some support for Reaper and not using vsti's, hardware synths rather, and like Tweakhead, I find this touchpad unfortunately dreadfully unresponsive for my taste and wonder if this VMeter could be configured to work in its stead somehow? Even if it meant not using AutoMap as not really sure I like it for my needs and of course my hardware synths have tons of knobs so will not be assigning those to the Remote, just using it as a pretty good feeling midi controller.

[MBTC]

About the Remote SL MKII, I did finally get all aspects of Automap working properly for me in Cubase and did learn a few tricks along the way thru painfully slow-tech support, but at least everything works the way it's supposed to now.

It looks like Reaper is partially supported for the MKII + Automap but its hard to tell from the Novation page exactly what the differences are or what parts aren't 100%. That's one thing that always irked me about FLStudio, even though most things worked fine with it, it seemed to always be a second class citizen with regard to getting listed as an officially supported host by most HW/SW companies.

[namnibor]

Avid's Pro Tools is even worse in that respect as you say FLstudio is, but that's because Avid seems to be a bit like Apple is in that if it's not "officially tested by Avid it is usually not supported by Avid", which is play of words that if Avid cannot make crap-load of money off of something, it more than likely will not be supported by them and if you try to ask Avid for support regarding something like that they simply will not.
That's why I thought it was really kind of great how Izotope Iris did things when first released in that they firstly made it so it can be used as a stand alone and secondly listed it fully supported by Reaper, but at least last year, RTAS format was not supported (that could have changed by now).

I know these companies are in business to make money and reason I remember back a few years ago was starting to learn Pro Tools MP9 remember reading OFTEN on Avid Forums all kinds of hate towards Reaper AND Reaper Users there and one person whom had been one of the forum's many moderators and was a working studio musician had "defected to Reaper" and when his last post on forum stated all the haters on here have only just a big case of terminal sour grapes because of fact there's other DAW's out there that are not as old that have many features pro Tools users still did not have or just recently partially had. He had also enough of the superiority complex that abounded in talking down to users of FLstudio and the like as if those DAW's were only "toys". He was then BANISHED from the forum!!
All this kind of stuff as well as like you said with Novation stating there may be partial Automap support but do not include in download notes or on their website exactly WHAT IS supported and not, a tad confusing and very reason I will read about something from various sources to find the consistency amongst all the salt.;)
It also does not exactly help when the likes of Novation seem to keep releasing a brand new controller as if they were yearly subscriptions to magazines and perhaps add Automap features that for instance work best on their now Impulse rather than on the Remote Series. It's maddening all the consumerism and marketing at the expense of just making something really excellent and keep supporting it instead of reinventing the same round wheel each year!!!
Rant over...they should make tranquilizers the shape to fit in PEZ Dispensers!!!!:cool: :lol:

[MBTC]

Just curious, which features work best on the Impulse series? I looked at those briefly but saw some direct comparison with the remote and I don't think the key bed is the same quality (plus of course the MKII has the stick I wanted, particularly since mod action can be switched to snap back or not).

I would have still been happy with the MKII as a controller even if I never got Automap fully working, but now it's particularly nice because I can just press the mixer button to control tracks with the faders and mute them with the button underneath (very handy).

FLStudio actually did start as kind of a "hobbyist" DAW, a program with a stupid name called Fruity Loops. Of course it's come a long way and is now pretty much as full featured (if not more so) than Cubase/Ableton et al, and used by lots of professionals, but the stigma always seems to remain. I think part of that is because the developers were game developers in a previous life, so they try to make the DAW entertaining through use of silly animations and such. Its really kind of a remarkable piece of software, but the bulk of it is maintained by one guy and I'm not sure that he could accommodate compatibility with every software add-on or hardware controller out there even if he tried. Their policy of "buy once, upgrade free forever" is a great value but also comes with some tradeoffs in terms of features and so forth.

[namnibor]

In the plethora of midi controller keyboards out there, I know I made the right choice with the SL61MKII and I am rather picky about key-action and after touch in that I do not want to feel like I may snap a key using after touch. Also, the fact it has TWO midi outs is a real plus because I recall a lot of still more advanced Roland Controllers from 90's (?) that actually had 4 midi outs.

I was referring to Novation's Automap update notes where there's caveats (on Impulse only), rather than anything "huge". Have never placed hands on an Impulse.

:confused: I do wonder with the SL's two physical midi out ports, would it be proper to connect one to say midi in on audio interface and other midi out to one of my hardware synth rack's midi in and then if not daisy chaining another synth rack, take the midi out from synth rack to the physical midi in on Remote SL MKII, while USB would be for Automap? Newbie question and humble myself to your advice as I feel like a minority in that I have hardware synth racks rather than most of Novation's instructions touching on midi over USB out#1/out#2.:rolleyes: I completely understand my audio outputs of said synth rack will go to input on audio interface and I indeed want to record audio primarily and in Reaper audio and midi can live on same track.:confused:

Thanks in advance.

[MBTC]

Maybe someone more hardware oriented can chime in, (my advice here will be as humble as your request since I'm primarily a software setup guy) but I believe you would only have actual MIDI cables between your audio interface and the hardware synths -- all MIDI data between the MKII and the your interface just travels across USB (its still MIDI data even though not on a MIDI cable, and the only reason you need those at all is for the hardware that doesn't support USB).

So the physical MIDI ports on the MKII are more for flexibility I guess when USB, and software like a DAW is not available. For example if I still had some of my (now vintage) modules like Korg M3R, TX81Z, how could I control them with the MKII in a live setup since they were before USB's time, especially if I wasn't using a PC? The physical MIDI ports would be the only option.

Someone please stop me if I'm missing something.

[namnibor]

Makes total sense. Would just have to set-up the routing in Scarlett Mix Control, which seems incredibly flexible! The Novation SL MKII is also pretty versatile...just hate the response of the X/Y Pad but will need to look and see if adjusting sensitivity can make it work better.
Thanks!

[MBTC]

I would never use the x/y pad anyway. If you want something that's better (debatably) to work with your left hand and not very expensive, use an xbox controller to do the x/y motion. Doesn't seem as sexy but a lot more effective than even "real" touch surfaces (tablets) for controlling modulation, and you can control the speed of response to the stick movement.

[namnibor]

The touch pad is really no big deal because I have an older Korg Kontrol 49 that was originally made to control Korg's Wavestation Legacy Program, which has a vector joystick, touch sensitive encoders and sliders, AND 16 velocity sens. pads, has two midi outs, and seeing how this controller pre-dates the Ableton Controllers called "Launchpads", and Korg still keeps updating the driver for this, even though discontinued, it sure looks like some other companies blatantly copied the design from Korg.:rolleyes:

The reason I picked it up dirt cheap is on the Korg forum they highly recommended it to use with Korg Wavestation SR (rack) as it is only rack unit that does not have a vector control joystick, but comes loaded with ALL the WS samples and performance data Korg ever made. Also, the exact same template of many loaded for Wavestation Legacy works flawlessly with original Wavestation:D .

The only thing that sucks on this, like *most* Korg's keys, it has no after touch:( . Korg is never consistent about the after touch thing. They omitted it on the King Korg, but their past legacy stuff they placed it on there like pretty sure Prophecy, Wavestation Keyboard, and only higher end priced newer things. Radias would be more fun with it.

Am still undecided about whether really like the modulation "stick" on the Remote SL...it's one oddly designed thing and am simply not used to it and feels cheaply made.

[MBTC]

Hmm... as far as design copying, I say if its really yours then patent it and defend it. If Korg did and didn't defend it, then shame on them. I look at Launchpads and I start to think about pad-based controllers that predate the Korg Kontrol 49 by quite some time, but maybe that's just me. I personally would rather see innovation, even if in incremental improvements and by different vendors, than one person saying "hey we invented the _____ therefore nobody else can make one" :)

Competition fuels technology... without it, the beancounters sit back and say "its not broke, no need to fix or improve" and nothing ever gets better.

hehe.... drifting again. Lots of good MIDI controller related stuff going on in this thread though. Meant to thank Tweakhead for the ribbon link, I want one of those puppies.

[namnibor]

Yeah, that touch strip is sweet. I was talking more about how the Kontrol 49 has the touch knobs and sliders and behave exactly way the Novation Remote SL ones do and have user configurable little screens above each slider and knobs you can label them digitally to whatever template you want to create for your own, but will admit the Novation SL is much prettier with the blue screen.
The 16 pads were not so much what I meant as well know Akai has been at that much longer, it's just the design taken as whole, will just say the Launchpads kind of borrowed a bit from it or perhaps the Remote's touch sensitive knobs/sliders are just similar, that's all.

Something Korg does have a patent on and only reason I know this because one of Dave Smith Instrument's code programmers said the ONLY reason Sequential Circuit's Prophet VS had a true Vector Joystick as well as some Yamaha SY/TG units, is because Dave and before they parted ways permanently, Don Solaris, both had some collaboration with Korg before SCI finally went bankrupt, and Korg allowed Dave Smith to use their type of joystick that's patented by Korg for the Prophet VS because guess where the Wavetable Waves came from for the Prophet VS and subsequently the DSI Evolver? From the Korg DW8000, as they were allowed to take the waveforms that are drawn right all over the fascia, and also tweaked them, made 50% of the waves brand new original ones. Then they both worked for Yamaha then Korg when Yamaha turned down Dave's project for the Wavestation, not wanting to take an investment chance on something Yamaha did not think would be popular. So Korg and Dave Smith, and SCI crew designed the Prophecy, Wavestation Wave Sequencing, with Korg adding modulation sequencing.

So what am trying to say Korg HAS protected themselves when feasible with patents, and were told that reason new Prophet 12 does not have the Vector Joystick but two touch strips instead to interpolate any of the 12 Digital Waves with it's 4 Osc's and sub osc, before going into the rest of all analog signal chain/filters, is Korg now considers DSI a viable competitor in the synth market share, and thus, to avoid any legality issues, the Tempest's two touch/pressure pads were utilized as well as two mod wheels. Don Solaris, having a rather "boutique" synth, The Solaris, looking like an Oberhiem Expander on steroids at $6000. a pop, definitely got permission to use Korg's vector control. I rather like the joystick and personally would like that over modulation and pitch wheels but it's the reason you do not see it implemented much on synths. Mentioned this because wondering still why the good old ribbon controller like what's on Andromeda, Doefer Modular, is not built into synths these days?

[TweakHead]

The Remote is a very capable controller for hardware - and a perfect bridge between the two worlds. For example Rob, you can connect two racks you own (both ins and outs) to the Remote, then on Reaper - this is the part I don't know exactly how is done - even connecting the controller with USB, it should recognize that the SL has two Midi Channels available. This means you can write midi data on your daw and sent it to the units, and the SL will act as a proper Midi interface. You will also be able to play them with the keyboard itself of course and record directly, but... I'm sure anyone finds many uses for having the synthesizer play some notes we recorded before to get two hands, breath and pedals (eheh) going mad tweaking while we record.

This is one of the features I like best about the Remote. And of course you can use the Through as you would with any other Midi setup as well. If all is properly configured - which should be easy enough to do with the manuals ;) - you can pick the midi channel on your audio card and connect a third synthesizer in there.

Don't know if you've tried this: but you can record midi arp from hardware to a midi track and use that on anything else quite easily or even record it, automate it, etc.

The other thing I think gets overlooked a lot is the editor: if you pick something like the Blofeld's CC list, you can configure the SL to control eat just by mouse clicking, save a preset on the user menu and it's ready to tweak...

Plus there's a lot of options in there that the manual poorly covers, have you guys noticed that? like global channel options, groups, so forth and so on... It's quite extensive. You can also bump stuff through it, and it even displays a progress bar of sort - for updating the software of synthesizers and such...

[TweakHead]

The Korg Prophecy also has a ton of very uncommon controls in there and they're very responsive - and usable with other synthesizers. Some of the old underrated classics can be welcome additions just for using these, I think. If you think of the Karma, for example, it goes rather cheap. But even if you don't like it's sound, the arp engine alone on that thing makes it worth while to use with other hardware, plus it's got the joystick on it and a fantastic keyboard.

[namnibor]

The Remote is a very capable controller for hardware - and a perfect bridge between the two worlds. For example Rob, you can connect two racks you own (both ins and outs) to the Remote, then on Reaper - this is the part I don't know exactly how is done - even connecting the controller with USB, it should recognize that the SL has two Midi Channels available. This means you can write midi data on your daw and sent it to the units, and the SL will act as a proper Midi interface. You will also be able to play them with the keyboard itself of course and record directly, but... I'm sure anyone finds many uses for having the synthesizer play some notes we recorded before to get two hands, breath and pedals (eheh) going mad tweaking while we record.

This is one of the features I like best about the Remote. And of course you can use the Through as you would with any other Midi setup as well. If all is properly configured - which should be easy enough to do with the manuals ;) - you can pick the midi channel on your audio card and connect a third synthesizer in there.

Don't know if you've tried this: but you can record midi arp from hardware to a midi track and use that on anything else quite easily or even record it, automate it, etc.

The other thing I think gets overlooked a lot is the editor: if you pick something like the Blofeld's CC list, you can configure the SL to control eat just by mouse clicking, save a preset on the user menu and it's ready to tweak...

Plus there's a lot of options in there that the manual poorly covers, have you guys noticed that? like global channel options, groups, so forth and so on... It's quite extensive. You can also bump stuff through it, and it even displays a progress bar of sort - for updating the software of synthesizers and such...

Yeah, the Remote is even capable of handling NRPN as well as Sysex/Midi and has a great keyboard. I understand aspects of midi but have a few really great books on it as read a lot but I have to agree, the pdf manual of the Remote is extremely vague on deeper stuff and reason it almost is as if they consider people with hardware synths kind of like an after thought and do noit go deep enough on some things for my liking and understanding. Their videos are even freaking worse! Have you ever watched any of the Novation Automap YouTube tutorials? At least this one guy on several of them speaks with rather strange pauses, looks like a wild animal caught in headlights and never blinks, and through the laborious videos on Automap, he says a lot of nothing. It's like they shoved someone whom knows nothing about Automap, let alone read the script for the PowerPoint presentation of Automap and is making it up as he goes.
Anyway, I get really annoyed at manuals when they often will only start to talk about what you are looking to learn, then the dreaded, "If you want to know more about______, please see Section_____OR, call customer support. You go to that section and it's rather nebulous at best:rolleyes:

Thanks for your advice. It's just that there's more need to learn as far as how the Remote wants connections to be as far as USB and then my midi. I know how to daisy chain hardware racks/synths, different channels, etc., it's just that the Remote manual places more emphasis on the USB than than the actual two midi out ports, let alone thru and in....grrrrr!

[TweakHead]

Yeah, same thing here. What I managed to do was to set it up like I told you before: I configured the Automap precisely like the App told me to and got it working fine with Logic. Afterwards, I could choose from within Logic (must be the same with Reaper) to send midi to each of the two channels on the Remote, and to receive also if you're interested in recording knob tweaks as automation... or this and that.

So what I'm saying is: you should connect the Remote with usb regardless of your intentions to use automap or not just because of that. Afterwards, by simply connecting the hardware to the Remote like you would with any other equipment, you can orchestrate them using Reaper if you want to. I believe you need to press the automap button once, so that the lid of off, in order for this to work. That's what I do, good old fashion midi for hardware, automap for software, no brainer at all.

If you plan on using automap, take your time to make costumized templates for the ones you plan to use and just save them once and for all. After that you'll be able to use them like any hardware synthesizer. Easier for more analogue like interfaces then something like Zebra or FM8 of course, but still very cool.

I'll see if I dig more through it one of these days and will let you guys know how it goes. Some things about the Remote still puzzle me a bit, even though I got to use it as I want to: controlling the hardware synths on my setup, mainly as keyboard and used as a Midi interface bridge from software to hardware. It's pretty responsive.

If however the soundcard has world clock built into it, I'm pretty sure it's better to use that as Midi Bridge, 'cause it simply won't drift out of time as easily. Truth of the matter is: those drifts are only noticeable if you have it playing for long. If you're like me and record only some bars at a time, so you can tweak away while recording, then you'll be fine.

Let me know how all of that goes ;)

[TweakHead]

Also, search within the automap app for other options. I think it works with different stuff for different things: for example, there's a thing there called "automap hub" which is their own hay of handling midi info for software, through the automap app, then there's rather more conventional midi also. I think this last part is pretty much reserved for the user button and templates you build. They thought this out primarly for hardware's direct control, with the templates you can build with the editor, but not only that. I have the little nocturn and use it to control traktor, the dj software from Native Instruments sometimes at home, so that isn't really compatible with standard automap and I had to set a template for it that's saved in the user templates. By pressing user I can choose my traktor template any given time.

The extra convenience of using usb to connect it, like I said, is that you get to choose from controlling software or hardware by simply pressing the "automap" button on the controller, instead of having to plug in and out cabbles for each, which is a time saver and much more convenient.

But I think you'd be happy to, say, select two of your synthesizers to receive info from the computer, to play notes you have written there (either using Reaper's writting tools or recorded keyboard action of course) and record the audio outputs of those. If you use the "throughs" on this channels or the devices themselves, you can extend this functionality to all your collection of hardware. You'll probably get more lag the longer the chain goes, I think. But if you happen to have some "delay compensation" feature on Reaper, it can compare the notes timming and the audio and correct this automatically for you.

If however this becomes an issue, I think a simple and cheap midi bridge device with some clock inside it (the remote can send clock info, granted!! another useful thing for hardware people) would allow you to sync everything up. But don't take my word for it, my collection of hardware isn't anywhere as big as yours. I know for a fact that RME has very good clocks, but again, this is quite expensive stuff...

[namnibor]

Thanks a lot! Actually, a Waldorf Q user created a custom template for the Waldorf Q (not Automap), and is supposed to be comprehensive and that's exciting.
New audio interface has word clock but it's only word clock out (but do not quote me on that as have not gone that far down rabbit hole), and know the Q has ability to send/rec'v midi clock/sync especially with it's poly sequencer and arp that's almost a sequencer, and the XT has a versatile arp and syncing.

I will be sure to ask for advice only after I have reached a point beyond a lot of reading, doing/failing, learning from it, do it again, et al!!! One thing for sure, could not be doing anything more mentally, emotionally healthier in my disabled military veteran state of being, now retired and doing what is incredibly enjoyable:D . (not to mention am still working on my first authored book)
So, to remain on-topic, I love to learn and am quite tenacious, no matter how daunting the task of learning deeper functions of the Remote SL61MKII. Someone on the Waldorf List has written a vst editor to go even deeper in the Microwave XT and I remember he mentioned he had made a template for the Remote for XT as well....he works for Google and he had seen my question posted to Waldorf List seeking where I could buy exact replacement red and three black knobs for my XT...he actually had brand new ones still in a bag and would not accept anything for them, mailing what I needed. The controllers for our instruments, whether soft synths or hardware are very individualized in how each individual views intuitiveness that just works for each. I am finding that there's some really cool people in the music community. (there's also for instance on the unofficial DSI forum, some rather CRAPtastic personalities akin to a prickly pear cactus)

Anyway, thanks for the tip on using the USB connection on the Remote regardless of using hardware. I just think Novation could do a better job and be more thorough in the manual and answer base. Groove3 has a tutorial ONLY on the Novation's newest controller, the Impulse:confused: Why do they feel the need to pump-out yet another controller series whilst still selling the newer Remote MKII? Do you find it odd having that totally unused second long blue screen on far right side of the Remote MKII? If I recall, the first version of the Remote actually utilized BOTH screens and it seems it sure would be handy in even showing the next or preceding mapped page there akin to the same way when setting up multi-mapped key-zones on keyboard that overlap each other as needed?!!!
Anyone know why that second screen is unused, let alone there? Then again, save from my DSI Mono Evolver Keyboards being an extremely cool and somewhat bright light show, the Remote SL61 MKII probably does not NEED anymore LEDs, but have to admit, I think those lit rings around knobs contribute to studio looking a bit like an alien spaceship cockpit...then you switch on the virus KC...man, I love that deep red:p Is the Indigo a really deep blue or bright and blue?

[TweakHead]

Since we're (finally) considering cockpit complementing looks as being an important feature for our gear - no matter how much we rationalize it, it's simply the ultimate truth - those of us who own the SL have to admit we got a little bit frustrated seeing that our X/Y pad could just as well be round shaped for holding a glass of wine (at least we'd use it for something) and that the mid range keyboard has better looks for alien exploration. I think they've clearly borrowed some ideas from their launchpad and went for a combo with this thing: the new pads are responsive even for people who don't hit them with hammers, they have light coding which is great for live usage of Live and two wheels illuminated - like the UltraNova synthesizer. Considering we don't really use the pads (unless for on/off like buttons on software stuff and Live), we don't use the x/y either even for placing a glass of wine (even though maybe there's some square shaped glasses that will fit in there. for more information on this subject search the novation's user forum)... If I was to buy one today, I'd probably go for that thing except, of course, for the midi functionality. The only aspect where the SL is still the king to be dethroned. This new one from them, LaunchKey (the name confirms that our alien travel aspirations have been heard by Novation, making Access probably the brand that reads this forum the less, probably, but we're getting somewhere here for sure...) kind of confirms their new tendency for dedicating their products to generic midi usage, specially controlling software, and nowadays, most specially Ableton Live - that's been gaining momentum for a while now and is probably the biggest growing market for dedicated controllers at the moment.

So, what do they have to say for people like Rob, here, that has invested in creating a huge collection of alien artifacts for dissecting the hidden frequencies from parallel dimensions? Not much, the midi functionality is (still) there in the SL, even though it's clearly not their main focus - and the manual bears witness to this promptly. If we think about it, the whole market seems to be with one foot on completely inside the box stuff, or weird controllers for software and on the other we have the analogue nostalgia with the new spring of analogue mono synthesizers hitting the market.

Ok... Not bad. But, why do I feel like there should be controllers made with synthesizer fanatics in mind: with great knobs (I do mean great), layouts that remind us of the best and most tweakable beasts and, perhaps, innovative performance features like those present in this little devices we talked about here. Plus, of course, great Midi connectivity with ease of use in mind - and the glass holder with the right shape the next time, please. If it works like that, it could be replaced by a toaster to, I mean, we need our cheese sandwiches while we're listening to those mad sounds we just did in loop, right? More so then we need to press this thing like we're killing an ant on the garden table (and would we need to press it this much for that? nope!). so... midi controllers need to get better, we enjoy the flashing lights, it makes our rooms look cool for sure, gives a new meaning to our electricity bills and all of that...

[MBTC]

Not sure if I'm reading the above right (you might have meant something different), but if considering the Ultranova as a primary MIDI controller, I'd say it's not the best candidate, it does have aftertouch but its not a Fatar key bed like the Remote SL MKII (I don't think the Impulse or Launchkey lines are either for that matter). Feel underneath the keys of both and you'll see what I mean, the MKII has solid keys and boards like the Ultranova or even my old Remote SL are hollow underneath.

[TweakHead]

I wasn't being serious with my last post! But that's interesting: always thought Novation would use their best quality keyboard on the Nova, since it's their most expensive product in the market.

[namnibor]

Not sure if I'm reading the above right (you might have meant something different), but if considering the Ultranova as a primary MIDI controller, I'd say it's not the best candidate, it does have aftertouch but its not a Fatar key bed like the Remote SL MKII (I don't think the Impulse or Launchkey lines are either for that matter). Feel underneath the keys of both and you'll see what I mean, the MKII has solid keys and boards like the Ultranova or even my old Remote SL are hollow underneath.

yeah, you are right, the keys on MKII are solid underside. It baffles my brain that manufacturers of either midi controllers or all out synths, with no consistency whatsoever, will at times cheap-out and slap CRAPtastic keys on an otherwise interesting and unique synth! *Almost* anything I have with keys have after touch, which also usually means one of the better/best FATAR keys are utilized! The Novation Remote SL61 MKII was my choice because of overall features, being able to even program own templates in midi/sysex/NRPN/Hex...and after touch was my main prerequisite and the fact it also has two hardware midi out ports AND USB, etc. made me easily forgive the incredibly CRAPtastic and useless X/Y touch pad.

The only thing that came even close and I had to thoroughly check it out before making decision on admittedly, expensive MKII 61 controller was another in same price bracket, the M-Audio Axiom Pro. It's very nice but because at the time, before AVID recently dumped M-Audio line to die where Akai, , and Alesis are now, is rather than Automap, it had Hypercontrol, which AVID saw fit to make that more or less proprietary to THEIR products and when it along with all else "pro-sumer products" were dumped from AVID, there's not really much support and so glad I did not make THAT choice because I already got stung by AVID with the first audio interface, Fast Track C600, which was not cheap, was still under warranty, made pop sounds erratically, and get this, to this day on AVID's website under downloads and support for that interface, they actually have it posted the pops and output problems are a KNOWN hardware issue that cannot be repaired via software update!!!! Yes, I tried to return it and get money back but AVID refused to give RMA for it and their email to me stated "We recommend you try one of our other interfaces instead....", and it really made me have a really bad taste in mouth for that incredibly sh***y lack of customer service to their "pro-sumer base"!!! It's not worth even taking legal action of any kind in the $399. that cost me and when you look at Better Business Bureau remarks and score, they had a lot of disgruntled complaints very similar to mine, yet still have an outstanding freaking score with them:confused:
Rant over....sorry, the word AVID is like the code word for a military German Shepherd Attack Dog to go all teethe on someone when I think of them!!! Ehh! FYI--there's quite a few ex-Pro Tools users in the Reaper Community and Forum.
Anyway, there's quite a few custom Templates people have made for the MKII Controller and are posted for download on Novation's support and downloads for it and my Waldorf Q rack synth is also listed so even though it has quite a few dedicated knobs on it, ALOT require you to hit the edit button in each section of signal flow to dive deeper and the Template allows one to do all that from the SL MKII. There's many others and lots of software synths as well and people constantly adding new submissions to Novation and that makes me happy.
I have read where their newer Impulse Line of controllers do NOT have as nice of keys as the SL MKII, it's just strange for a company to release a newer line while a former, more feature rich and still sold, more expensive controller is on market, to me at least. But then again, Focusrite has totally revamped their Scarlett line all except the 2i2.

I enjoyed Tweakhead's sardonic post very much!

[MBTC]

I wasn't being serious with my last post! But that's interesting: always thought Novation would use their best quality keyboard on the Nova, since it's their most expensive product in the market.

With a synth like the UltraNova, product direction can go one of a only a couple of different ways:
....they could add in more features like 61-key Fatar keybed, multi-timbral support, maybe a second DSP, FM synthesis, and other items so that it competes head on with Virus, Nord etc, but at that point they have created something that would probably need to cost at least $1800-2200 on the street.
But at that price point they are kind of competing with the legendary Virus when folks go to choose a primary synth (okay some folks would say the "Nova" name is brandworthy enough to compete, but it would still be a risky move). In other words, for today's typical electronic musician, we tend to have a couple of HW synths that matter and do everything else with soft-synths. Most folks do not line their walls with 76-key keyboards the way we did not too long ago. We tend to look for one primary synth that can act as master controller that has enough keys and the control options we need, then everything else is mostly a rack module.
So, I think the product thinking was that the UltraNova is probably not going to replace everyone's primary controller, so its better to increase sales by keeping the price low. And, since probably nobody (or few) are going to use 37-keys as a primary controller, why put a lot of money into the keys?

I'm sure if they saw huge demand for a 61-key UltraNova they could accommodate, but the thing is that if you want to control the UltraNova with a 61 Fatar keys, you can just add the MKII to control the UN like a rack module and put the UN out of reach if you wanted.

Although, and this is on my list of experimentation items, I do not yet know if I can control the touch-knobs on the UltraNova in real-time using the touch-knobs on the MKII. I know it's fully possible hardware-wise, and it should be seamless, but I just don't know if Automap supports it. On the Ultranova touching a knob means "modulate in real-time", while on the MKII its more about just revealing the parameter that knob controls.

[MBTC]

Anyway, there's quite a few custom Templates people have made for the MKII Controller and are posted for download on Novation's support and downloads for it and my Waldorf Q rack synth is also listed so even though it has quite a few dedicated knobs on it, ALOT require you to hit the edit button in each section of signal flow to dive deeper and the Template allows one to do all that from the SL MKII. There's many others and lots of software synths as well and people constantly adding new submissions to Novation and that makes me happy.


In my initial search for a MIDI controller and my initial motive for starting this thread, at first I felt a little gutted by the lack of feasible choices out there, everything kept bringing me back to Novation. However, I think the consolidation that's occurred in the industry is sometimes a good thing. Lots of people are using this board, which tends to lead to a longer product lifecycle, better community support, and lots of pioneering people out there that will find software or firmware bugs before I do :)

[namnibor]

http://socks-studio.com/img/blog/CatPaino-01.jpg

[namnibor]

Old instrument which contained all cats' tails are under the keys so each key press makes cat making a sound and all cats are arranged in order to make an octave:rolleyes: