Filter to increase the brightness/crispness of the general Virus sound

[Rusty]

Hi

To start with;

I´m really annoyed by the fake/plastic sounds of my Virus C.

So now, I´m looking for a good filter, effect or EQ to get rid of the internal "Virus filter" that is exists on every sound it produces.

EQ:ing helps a lot, but maybe there´s other ways to make the Virus sound more richer. Compared to a Nord Lead (as an example) the
Nord Lead sounds much brighter and crispier.

Maybe an analog filter would increase the sound? Or... Maybe there are cheaper alternatives?

Do you have any tips or recommendations? :rolleyes:

[feedingear]

The virus has 3 eqs on board.

Interestingly, I always thought the Nord sounded thin and harsh - part of its appeal as a counter to the warmer, rich and thick mid sounds the Virus produces.

If you want that brighter crispier sound, cut around 3-400hz to remove boxiness and boost at 3-7k for presence...

[chimney chop]

use the eq and/or reverb coloration to brighten the tone.

seriously, the virus c has its faults but sounding "fake/plastic" certainly isn't among them.

[bluesmoose]

This is what I've tried. It won't sound as bright as a Nord Lead 2, but it does open it up a bit.

Turn off Analog Boost.
High Eq boost at about 4k.
Don't use analog filter emulations.
Use the 2 pole filter (Serial-4) instead of the 4 pole (Serial-6).
Set Filter Balance all to Filter 1.
Don't use saturation.

You might look in the wavetables. There may be some waveforms with more high end harmonics.


...If you want that brighter crispier sound, cut around 3-400hz to remove boxiness and boost at 3-7k for presence...

Thanks, I didn't think about cutting lows. I'll try that.

[MBTC]

This thread is interesting to me, because of how often I hear the Virus C sounds better than the newer Virus models, and that the filters are one of the big selling points of the Virus (as are the parallel filter processors on the DSP).

I personally find that as long as filters are flexible/editable enough, they in themselves are not really a pro/con to sound design. I have seen some cases where some soft synths do not offer much flexibility on things like non-linear curve or contour options or other subtle characteristics which can make it harder, for example, to put the right amount of "bite" on a pluck sound.

Does the Virus give you flexibility with regard to slope/curve of the filter? As others pointed out, overall brightness of the sound is something I'd tend to solve more with EQ. I use filters more for sculpting the core characteristics of the sound than for warmness or brightness, but of course that's a matter of personal habit.

[bluesmoose]

Does the Virus give you flexibility with regard to slope/curve of the filter?

I assume you mean the shape of the attack and decay portion of the filter envelope.

You can recursively modulate the filter envelope attack and decay.
There are routings in the modulation matrix for
Filter Env-> Filter Env Attack
Filter Env-> Filter Env Decay

You can apply positive or negative amount to make it more convex or concave.

I haven't had my Virus for long, so I'm no expert on this stuff yet.

[MBTC]

I assume you mean the shape of the attack and decay portion of the filter envelope.

You can recursively modulate the filter envelope attack and decay.
There are routings in the modulation matrix for
Filter Env-> Filter Env Attack
Filter Env-> Filter Env Decay

You can apply positive or negative amount to make it more convex or concave.

I haven't had my Virus for long, so I'm no expert on this stuff yet.

I seem to recall reading that somewhere else here. Seems like kind of a cumbersome way to get non-linear settings, although I can see how it might have needed to be implemented that way on a hardware synth (especially pre-TI models where the display on the board itself is all you have). A visual of the line goes a long way (not sure if Virus Control for the TI offers that or not -- they should be able to add it easily enough if not).

[bluesmoose]

I seem to regard reading that somewhere else here. Seems like kind of a cumbersome way to get non-linear settings, although I can see how it might have needed to be implemented that way on a hardware synth (especially pre-TI models where the display on the board itself is all you have). A visual of the line goes a long way (not sure if Virus Control for the TI offers that or not -- they should be able to add it easily enough if not).

Yes, cumbersome.
Why tie up a mod slot, etc. when you can just have a contour parameter ?
An Attack Contour and Decay Contour for each envelope would be great.
On the hardware (at least for filter and amp envelopes) you could use Shift+Attack to adjust the Attack contour, and Shift+Decay...

Virus Control doesn't show these contours. It only draws the envelope with the original contour.

[MBTC]

Virus Control doesn't show these contours. It only draws the envelope with the original contour.

Here's a partial screenshot of how that editing works on the Ultranova editor:

http://i.imgur.com/WCIoVHJ.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/WCIoVHJ.jpg)

They should do something like that in Virus Control.

[bluesmoose]

Here's a partial screenshot of how that editing works on the Ultranova editor:

http://i.imgur.com/WCIoVHJ.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/WCIoVHJ.jpg)

They should do something like that in Virus Control.


That is nice.

I have seen screenshots of the Blofeld with linear and non-linear filter envelope attacks.
I looked in the manual and it has envelope attack, decay, sustain and release as mod destinations for filter env, amp env, env3 and env4.
So, if they can draw the modified envelopes, maybe Virus Control will someday.

[TweakHead]

might be "cumbersome", but we're talking "recursive modulation" for a synthesizer that was released in 2004 folks!

and if you look at it, the B could do it! and so could the Virus A!

the Nord Lead can't even invert the polarity on the filter envelope, even on Nord Lead 4! It does sound good and very crisp and clear on highs. but if you praise that sound, why would you go for a Virus C - that is known for a more darker tone - instead of it?

but seriously, the Nord can't adjust the curve of envelopes! period! recursive modulation in the Virus is a bliss that extends it's options far beyond anything you can touch with the Lead.

this topic was about character: someone bought a Virus and likes the Nord sound better! Answer: you've made a bad choice! Try before buy! The envelope's curves have nothing to do with the kind of byte and highs you can get out of a Nord Lead. That's just the Nord sound - and some analogue machine's sound to.

The Ultranova... Well, it's just much more modern, isn't it? But there's plenty stuff the Virus C or B can do that it can't folks. More then the other way around.

Now, if we're talking multi-stage envelopes on some software instruments, ok, nothing the Virus can touch! Hardware? Can do almost anything that comes to my mind!

There's another way to change the slopes of envelopes (I remember Timo posted the work around once): it's using the LFO's in envelope mode, single hit (you know the deal), pick your wave, change the "contour", do whatever it is you like to it...

[TweakHead]

I seem to recall reading that somewhere else here. Seems like kind of a cumbersome way to get non-linear settings, although I can see how it might have needed to be implemented that way on a hardware synth (especially pre-TI models where the display on the board itself is all you have). A visual of the line goes a long way (not sure if Virus Control for the TI offers that or not -- they should be able to add it easily enough if not).

I think that hey didn't already because it's possible to do it with recursive modulation and because of patch compatibility with older models - the features that were present in earlier models are left intact on the TI.

but the thing is: why would anyone buy a synthesizer whose sound one doesn't like? there are plenty of second hand nord leads out there for a bit over half the price of a Virus C, so...

because I totally get why anyone looking for the Nord sound would feel frustrated with the Virus - and the other way around. even though they're both VA, they're totally different beasts and the main difference is in the character: the virus sounds warm and grittier while the Nord sounds clean and crisp - there's no way around that fact!

funny enough, the Novation's synths sound somewhat similar do the Nord: it's got a very liquid and smooth sound on the highs, less crisp and harsh but still a lot of presence that easily cuts through the mix. I think Novation's sound sits somewhere between the Nord and Roland - it's got some roundness to the sound. While, for example, the Waldorf's sound much more edgier and with tons of ear piercing highs on them.

I don't think any of these is better. it's just different: many people have one of each and find a place for them on their mixes.

someone said here: nord and virus do complement each other quite nicely! that's exactly how I see it!

plus, I'm inclined to say: spend a little more time programming the Virus and you'll see it can get you very crisp sounds. the recipe above is about that: when you want to get close to Nord sound (without considering actually buying one, of course), turn off everything that isn't present on the Lead. It's got no effects, it only has one filter whose envelope can't be inverted, so forth and so on... but then... the FM on the Lead sounds a lot different to the Virus, for some "classic" sounds, it's the Nord that provides them. for others, the Virus is much more capable! also, if you modulate pitch with a sine wave LFO on the Lead or on the Virus, the results are different in sound even with very similar settings. they don't even have similar maximum frequencies on them...

so what can I say? grab a Lead. take more time programming your Virus to! if you boost the highs and do the opposite in the lows and low mids, you get much more presence (the gain structure across the spectrum changes)... once you move the filters, though, it might not sound as you want. so make the EQ follow the filter movement instead: assign a soft knob (or mod wheel or whatever) to make the EQ band's frequency move with the filter cuttoff (sort like EQ key tracking, made with modulation! handy uh?) if it doesn't sound pleasant enough yet, then keep on fine tunning it: the boost in the EQ could decrease or increase as filter cutoff gets higher, or the other way around. pretty easy to set up on the Matrix.

thinking like this you can overcome many of the apparent limitations a given synthesizer (not just the Virus!) seems to have when it comes down to "the way it sounds". with plenty of modulation options (that are not exactly "standard", I give you that) there's not much to complain about. be relentless. experiment experiment experiment

[bluesmoose]

Thanks to feedingear, chimney chop, and MBTC for their posts.
I have some things to experiment with.
Thanks.

[MBTC]

Thanks to feedingear, chimney chop, and MBTC for their posts.
I have some things to experiment with.
Thanks.

No love for Tweakhead? I DECLARE SACRILIDGE! :D

Seriously though, Tweaks posts are almost always worth a read, even when I find his opinion not aligned with my own.

To clarify my position here, there are lots of ways programmatically to achieve logarithmic and exponential slopes of lines without recursion, so I do believe it is going ass-over-elbow-to-get-to-thumb. Not an elegant solution.

Was there a technical reason it was done with the DSP's of the early Virus models? Very possibly, I cannot comment on that. I was absent from the synth world (in terms of ownership of one) from about mid 90s until 2006-ish, and when I look at the evolution of electronic music brought forth by the legendary Virus line, it's clear that this is not a feature the synth necessarily needed to be successful. The Virus can produce good sound, even if sometimes unintuitively. Some synths have implemented slope algorithms for various features in a way that is non-modifiable, and to some extent that can be a musically "good thing". It can give a synth a specific profile or individual character, that lets you potentially recognize a synth's sound. Thinking about that for a second, that's exactly what occurs with acoustic instruments like piano or guitar for example. The sound profile is inherently parameterized... basically limited by the physical characteristics of the instrument. Good for character, but not so much for flexibility.

Back to my position -- what I was trying to say is that the Virus models that implement curves via recursion (for better or worse in terms of computation speed), the equation could still be expressed graphically somewhere. I wouldn't necessarily expect or want the TI2 line for example to be able to produce filter slopes that were vastly incompatible with previous models, but the bottom line is that the slope is what it is, regardless of derivation. This means that with regard to VIRUS CONTROL SOFTWARE (operative concept here), it *COULD* be expressed visually, and even given a very user-friendly way to tweak it.

I've got a softsynth called Oresus that I paid something like $25 for. It lets you use the mouse to bend the curves like they are rubber bands. The math behind them is so much less important than the visceral relationship between the sound sculptor and his design goal.

So, all I was really saying is that it wouldn't take much for Access to include a feature into Virus Control, without affecting existing patches, that would allow users to easily manipulate these lines. The math behind them can remain what it is, however efficient or convoluted or whatever. That's just a modern expectation of audio software.

If I seem down on the Virus, I'm really not. I want one. Its just that from someone who cares about overall value, I just wish they could keep up with $25 softsynths in terms of technological progression.

[TweakHead]

Not worried about the exclusion from the "thanks" list. I stand by every word I said! Plus, I dare say there's some handy tips on my last post and took some time to write that for a total stranger, so...

@bluesmoose #$%& u!

try ebay.com then moan!

Now, of course there's plenty of plug-ins doing that. Even Albino 3 does that. But I honestly don't think it would be that easy to do that. It still needs a modulation assignment to get it working. Imagine you have a patch so complex that all the modulation slots are taken...

TBO, I think that's just a minor detail. Once you're familiar with the instrument, you get the envelopes in the shape you want quite fast and easily. There's not even independent volume for each oscillator, let alone that. But it's still a great instrument, even though it doesn't sound like a Lead, and it's got it's own set of limitations. Some you can easily overcome with some clever modulation. That means, of course, you're also using modulation assignments to do that, that can prevent you to do something else. I, for one, feel that having to deal with limitations actually tends to help creatively and in the sound design process. And sure it does make you know the instrument inside out and do some stuff most people would assume it couldn't do without even trying.

[TweakHead]

It's easy enough to implement that on a new instrument. It's not that easy to do that with a fixed arquitecture that's been here for long. There's many things to consider: the whole range of the Virus is identical in all aspects they have in common. If you have a patch made on the A, B or C, it should sound the same on the TI. So I guess it's just a brand priority. There's some HS patches that make clever use of this recursive modulation thing, for example, it takes a slot or two in the matrix. To change this into a more easy interface (only available on the TI range, of course, the first post was about a Virus C, uh? never mind...) would take much for such a tiny thing.

One of these days people will be complaining about not having multi-stage envelopes on a Virus B... you know? yes, things evolve and in software there are no limitations of any kind besides the cpu hit of the instrument, so it's kind of natural that some plug-ins have that and the Virus doesn't. You say 25 bucks, I say there's some free, open-source ones that do that. It's not a big deal. FM8 or Absynth can put any kind of envelopes in hardware to shame. So what?

But how do we get from Virus not being able to sound like a Nord. Or sounding "plastic and fake", to envelope's contour options versus recursive modulation? I don't think the difference between the two is down to the envelope's curves at all.

And if the Virus isn't keeping up with software, how about the Lead? Does it? I think the one who started this thread was looking for that particular character - and I know what he's talking about - and the best answer to that is still: just grab one! Let's not get into a it's all down to the converters thing, but I like the nord 1 and 2 better then 2x (possibly down to the older converters making the sound less clear, creating the illusion of more byte to it, don't know...) and they're fairly cheap on second hand market. But it's a much more "cumbersome" instrument. What it does, it does great and has "that sound".

How about a TB303 or a Mini Moog? they're pretty cumbersome to. Good that people can change the envelope's curves on some plug-in, uh? What the hell are we talking about here? It's the sound that counts.

[MBTC]

Keep in mind I'm not saying it would be easy to change the method in which, architecturally, the slopes are achieved on the Virus hardware itself.

I'm saying they wouldn't need to. Even a mediocre software developer with high school level math could take their existing recursion method, and display it visually and provide a couple of knobs to modify the curve of the lines, so they are out of excuses as to why they have not made Virus Control plugin competitive with other offerings. We are talking here about modification to the software plug-in only, not the Virus. They don't need to go back to hardware manufacturing design, just update their software like every other software publisher does, with a value-added feature set.

Actually, because the Virus itself is only software, they could offer both legacy and "modern times" methods of achieving this, but there could be some issues with regard to physical knobs and such (I doubt anything insurmountable). But yes even on the hardware it should be achievable with a firmware update alone.

I'm not saying the software work would be easy, or should be done with the Virus C, but it could be doable there as well by a third party editor, once again without changing the nature of how the curves are derived.

But the crux of my position is that despite how easy it is to do right, don't hold your breath waiting for Access to do it. They transcended complacency a long time ago and have been riding on all-in-arrogance for many years. The best you can hope for is an announcement in NAMM 2016 of the coveted limited edition PinkStar, a Virus with pink keys for those fans of Lady Gaga or Ke$ha :) Another color change, yay. Marvels of innovation.

[TweakHead]

But the crux of my position is that despite how easy it is to do right, don't hold your breath waiting for Access to do it. They transcended complacency a long time ago and have been riding on all-in-arrogance for many years. The best you can hope for is an announcement in NAMM 2016 of the coveted limited edition PinkStar, a Virus with pink keys for those fans of Lady Gaga or Ke$ha :) Another color change, yay. Marvels of innovation.

I guess sarcasm is running strong in this forum. Made me laugh! :twisted:

I agree with you. I only think even if they did it, that option could possibly conflict with at least some patches - since it has to use the modulation matrix slots to achieve so, at least on the current architecture. A firmware update would be great, of course. But if I have to "hold my breath", like you say, I'm assuming major changes will only arrive with a new version of the Virus - when and if such a thing ever comes to be. And I honestly hope they focus on taking some of the suggestions from people here (I'm going to proclaim the obvious here: we're the best making suggestions for hardware on the entire web, gear slutz are amateurs compared to the core members here XD), if not mine, at least Timo's idea of what the Virus could touch would make me happy enough to buy one. User drawable waves for both LFO and oscillators would totally kill! And I'm pretty sure they'd implement them on both modules, pretty much like they did with the extra 64 waves - that are the thing that set the Virus apart in terms of modulation to these day! Well, other companies have been sleeping more then Access has. I'm thinking Clavia here. I mean, last update you got extra envelopes on the Virus and that brings any synthesizer to another level in terms of possibilities whilst the Lead is still very similar in features - even the latest one - to a classic hardware synthesizer. But they are the first (I think so, no?) to have done a Virtual Analogue and despite that fact, the thing does sound great. I discovered to my surprise (quite recently) that I love some of the sounds you get out of it. You've heard them everywhere on classic tunes from primordial EDM times, from Goa classics, to House, to Techno, to almost everything you can imagine. The fact that it's got a simple architecture plays on it's behalf if you're using it rather then looking at a detailed specs sheet - because of the immediacy of the interface that asks you "just go ahead and tweak me". Plenty of ways to look at the same thing.

But to make things clear, I do agree with you. All efforts should be made to make simple things simple. Sometimes they involve getting deeply under the hood though and I think it would conflict with some patches currently on the libraries and would just be another mess to get into. And they have plenty of that with the "integration" thing already. Just speculation of course...

I think this is the way to go with most manufacturers out there: better integration, perfect sync, screen editors or proper plug-ins to integrate into our host apps with total recall... I believe we will get it pretty soon! And I have the feeling Access is going to surprise us when the time comes. I was actually glad that one of the guys has been busy with the guitar stuff, means it's not just sleeping over success, there's a reason behind this delay. I think the update sort of makes up for it and most people that own the Ti or Ti2 just moan about it because they've paid the big buck for something that doesn't work as publicized regarding the integration. But if you compare the specs on the C to the TI with the latest update, you'll hardly think they've been sleeping!

[bluesmoose]

Plus, I dare say there's some handy tips on my last post and took some time to write that for a total stranger, so...

@bluesmoose #$%& u!




There was nothing constructive in your first post.
It was a rant defending the Virus and attacking people's choices and opinions.
Based on the contents of the first post, I didn't read the second.




@bluesmoose #$%& u!



Thanks.

That shows who you really are, I suppose.
.

[TweakHead]

There was nothing constructive in your first post.
It was a rant defending the Virus and attacking people's choices and opinions.
Based on the contents of the first post, I didn't read the second.




Thanks.

That shows who you really are, I suppose.
.

no time right now. I'll get back to this. Nothing constructive, hey? Care to explain?

[namnibor]

That is nice.

I have seen screenshots of the Blofeld with linear and non-linear filter envelope attacks.
I looked in the manual and it has envelope attack, decay, sustain and release as mod destinations for filter env, amp env, env3 and env4.
So, if they can draw the modified envelopes, maybe Virus Control will someday.

...Or, just buy a Blofeld! I have both Virus KC and Blofeld Kybd and they are both individual beasts with their own personalities and deeply programmable.

Why be so defensive and as well as dismissive when you can actually learn a lot on this forum's past posts via searches and studying the whole user manual as well as Access's "Programming Analog Synthesizers", which is a free download and has exercises that are specific to the Virus architecture?

Lastly, what's up with people with a new to them synth, that they immediately bemoan "what it could-a/should-a be" and complain it's not as bright as a Nord, in this case?

Sarcasm and sardonic humor should be taken in-stride if you see where what stance you immediately came from before actually getting to know your instrument in and out.

Tweakhead, among others on this forum, have incredible insight, experience, and programming advice that is shared here and being dismissive actually says much more about your composure than anything else.

I was being kind and as always, please read aforementioned manual and guide for the Virus and of course, experiment by dismantling programs to see how they are composed because every synth is different.

[bluesmoose]

...Or, just buy a Blofeld! I have both Virus KC and Blofeld Kybd and they are both individual beasts with their own personalities and deeply programmable.

Why be so defensive and as well as dismissive when you can actually learn a lot on this forum's past posts via searches and studying the whole user manual as well as Access's "Programming Analog Synthesizers", which is a free download and has exercises that are specific to the Virus architecture?

Lastly, what's up with people with a new to them synth, that they immediately bemoan "what it could-a/should-a be" and complain it's not as bright as a Nord, in this case?

Sarcasm and sardonic humor should be taken in-stride if you see where what stance you immediately came from before actually getting to know your instrument in and out.

Tweakhead, among others on this forum, have incredible insight, experience, and programming advice that is shared here and being dismissive actually says much more about your composure than anything else.

I was being kind and as always, please read aforementioned manual and guide for the Virus and of course, experiment by dismantling programs to see how they are composed because every synth is different.

Re Blofeld...
MBTC questioned whether something like that could be implemented in Virus Control.
He said ultranova could do it.
Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I was trying to say that since the Blofled (and Ultranova) could do it, maybe there wasn't a technical reason that it would not be possible to implement in Virus Control.


re Tweakhead, among others on this forum, have incredible insight, experience, and programming advice that is shared here and being dismissive actually says much more about your composure than anything else.

Perhaps, but his first post in this thread did have any of that.



It really is amazing... How a simple discussion turns into a religious "attack the new guys" thread.

.

[bluesmoose]

Here is your first post in this thread. Where does it offer tips for making brighter sounds on a Virus ?

might be "cumbersome", but we're talking "recursive modulation" for a synthesizer that was released in 2004 folks!

and if you look at it, the B could do it! and so could the Virus A!

the Nord Lead can't even invert the polarity on the filter envelope, even on Nord Lead 4! It does sound good and very crisp and clear on highs. but if you praise that sound, why would you go for a Virus C - that is known for a more darker tone - instead of it?

but seriously, the Nord can't adjust the curve of envelopes! period! recursive modulation in the Virus is a bliss that extends it's options far beyond anything you can touch with the Lead.

this topic was about character: someone bought a Virus and likes the Nord sound better! Answer: you've made a bad choice! Try before buy! The envelope's curves have nothing to do with the kind of byte and highs you can get out of a Nord Lead. That's just the Nord sound - and some analogue machine's sound to.

The Ultranova... Well, it's just much more modern, isn't it? But there's plenty stuff the Virus C or B can do that it can't folks. More then the other way around.

Now, if we're talking multi-stage envelopes on some software instruments, ok, nothing the Virus can touch! Hardware? Can do almost anything that comes to my mind!

There's another way to change the slopes of envelopes (I remember Timo posted the work around once): it's using the LFO's in envelope mode, single hit (you know the deal), pick your wave, change the "contour", do whatever it is you like to it...


Compare that to what others said:


feedingear suggested cutting 300-400 Hz.
The virus has 3 eqs on board.

Interestingly, I always thought the Nord sounded thin and harsh - part of its appeal as a counter to the warmer, rich and thick mid sounds the Virus produces.

If you want that brighter crispier sound, cut around 3-400hz to remove boxiness and boost at 3-7k for presence...


chimney chop mentioned reverb. So, I thought I might try using a touch of reverb with the smallest room, shortest reflections.
use the eq and/or reverb coloration to brighten the tone.

seriously, the virus c has its faults but sounding "fake/plastic" certainly isn't among them.


MBTC mentioned parallel filters, which got me thinking that I should try using with parallel filter, with the 2nd filter open a bit more but with the filter balance more toward filter 1, using the filter balance try to mix in some addtional harmonics.
This thread is interesting to me, because of how often I hear the Virus C sounds better than the newer Virus models, and that the filters are one of the big selling points of the Virus (as are the parallel filter processors on the DSP).

I personally find that as long as filters are flexible/editable enough, they in themselves are not really a pro/con to sound design. I have seen some cases where some soft synths do not offer much flexibility on things like non-linear curve or contour options or other subtle characteristics which can make it harder, for example, to put the right amount of "bite" on a pluck sound.

Does the Virus give you flexibility with regard to slope/curve of the filter? As others pointed out, overall brightness of the sound is something I'd tend to solve more with EQ. I use filters more for sculpting the core characteristics of the sound than for warmness or brightness, but of course that's a matter of personal habit.



I find it amazing that I must defend giving thanks to others.

[bluesmoose]

.
Lastly, what's up with people with a new to them synth, that they immediately bemoan "what it could-a/should-a be" and complain it's not as bright as a Nord, in this case?


That was not me. That was Rusty. Complain to him.

[TweakHead]

So as to make things clear: how can you say that someone suggesting to use the Virus's EQ is constructive and someone saying you can extend it's use with modulation to be sensitive to the filter's position is not? My first post? Seriously, what's wrong with that? If you don't have any respect for other people's opinion and the way they express themselves, then that's your problem, not mine.

But what puzzles me the most is why on earth would someone dismiss my tips about making the EQ follow the pitch. You may not like the way I write, that's fine, but I'm still a person that took his time to answer this thread so if you don't find it useful, that's fine, but making some sort of "thanks list" and living me out - really says more about you then me. You see, before and after, I just stated the obvious.

So it isn't constructive. How come, please enlighten me, there's an EQ called "Surfer EQ" that does exactly the same thing? It's pitch sensitive - yeah, like EQ keytrack, just like I said. It costs money, it's relevant, and all of that. You think my opinion of the Virus and Lead and Novation doesn't suit your taste? Fine. What's that to do with me? I've used all of them. I know what I'm saying and if you don't like it, again, that's fine, but behaving like a child won't get you nowhere - let alone with me. Kicking me out? Who the fuck do you think you are? Do you honestly think I feel even slightly intimidated with your troll manners here? Real world is like this: I say whatever I want and you have to live with it. Did I make this perfectly clear to you?

Now, tweak your synthesizers more and talk less. The last advice you're getting from me.

If you do happen to try the stuff I told you, you'll see how much "constructive" my posts actually where. You see, in the Virus the EQ freq is a selectable destination for modulation. And using the soft knobs (or other controllers), you can set it so that turning a knob will modulate this parameters in relation to each other. Because boosting a specific EQ band is just that, it's static. It may or may not sound good when you sweep the filter. The tips I gave you are a workaround that fact and you can actually get to places with your synthesizer you haven't imagined to be possible. It's all there already. The thing about sound design tips is like this: you must try first and talk after. If you happen to have any doubt in your mind about anything just PM me. This is a clean and honest forum where people expose their ideas without getting into stupid Ego fights. Let's keep it that way. If your nice to people, people are nice to you. Here and everywhere. Don't expect to come here and start a war with me. On my behalf this is over! You read me? Feel free to complain to whoever you want to. I trust that people here do know me for what my posts say of me.

[TweakHead]

You have "keyflw" in your sources list (translates into "note played in) and "EqMidFreq" and other relevant parameters as destinations. That's what you'd use to make the EQ follow the pitch - sort like Surfer EQ does.

Imagine you do that but you still want, say, when closing up an High Pass filter to drop the gain of this EQ accordingly. You can by making whatever it is you're using to modulate or control the cutoff position of this filter also modulate "EQMidGain" destination.

This is just a way of thinking about sound design: you're correlating various parameters at once, making them respond to each other while still being easy to control.

Did I mention some people like Skrillex automate an EQ band to create the mid range bass sounds that made him famous? Right...

I seem to have mentioned on my first post that Timo's written a great post about a workaround for getting the envelopes to be as linear as possible. Search for it and read through it.

[bluesmoose]

So as to make things clear: how can you say that someone suggesting to use the Virus's EQ is constructive and someone saying you can extend it's use with modulation to be sensitive to the filter's position is not? My first post? Seriously, what's wrong with that? If you don't have any respect for other people's opinion and the way they express themselves, then that's your problem, not mine.

But what puzzles me the most is why on earth would someone dismiss my tips about making the EQ follow the pitch. You may not like the way I write, that's fine, but I'm still a person that took his time to answer this thread so if you don't find it useful, that's fine, but making some sort of "thanks list" and living me out - really says more about you then me. You see, before and after, I just stated the obvious.

So it isn't constructive. How come, please enlighten me, there's an EQ called "Surfer EQ" that does exactly the same thing? It's pitch sensitive - yeah, like EQ keytrack, just like I said. It costs money, it's relevant, and all of that. You think my opinion of the Virus and Lead and Novation doesn't suit your taste? Fine. What's that to do with me? I've used all of them. I know what I'm saying and if you don't like it, again, that's fine, but behaving like a child won't get you nowhere - let alone with me. Kicking me out?

Who the fuck do you think you are?

Do you honestly think I feel even slightly intimidated with your troll manners here? Real world is like this: I say whatever I want and you have to live with it. Did I make this perfectly clear to you?

Now, tweak your synthesizers more and talk less. The last advice you're getting from me.

If you do happen to try the stuff I told you, you'll see how much "constructive" my posts actually where. You see, in the Virus the EQ freq is a selectable destination for modulation. And using the soft knobs (or other controllers), you can set it so that turning a knob will modulate this parameters in relation to each other. Because boosting a specific EQ band is just that, it's static. It may or may not sound good when you sweep the filter. The tips I gave you are a workaround that fact and you can actually get to places with your synthesizer you haven't imagined to be possible. It's all there already. The thing about sound design tips is like this: you must try first and talk after. If you happen to have any doubt in your mind about anything just PM me. This is a clean and honest forum where people expose their ideas without getting into stupid Ego fights. Let's keep it that way. If your nice to people, people are nice to you. Here and everywhere. Don't expect to come here and start a war with me. On my behalf this is over! You read me? Feel free to complain to whoever you want to. I trust that people here do know me for what my posts say of me.


No where in your first post did you say anything about altering the EQ based on pitch.
As I said, when I posted the thanks to the others, I had not read your second post.

I will say thank you for the programming info in your subsequent posts. Yes, Surfer EQ does sound interesting.


This is a clean and honest forum where people expose their ideas without getting into stupid Ego fights.

What? You cursed at me! Not once, but twice now.



I say whatever I want and you have to live with it.

But, this same rule does not apply to me?
I say whatever I want and you have to live with it. Yes?

[TweakHead]

Let's give this a rest, shall we? It will go nowhere.

I do find that even with digital - or virtual analogue - instruments, there's a lot of diversity in the character. I actually see that as a good thing, to have diversity of sound in the products on offer. The Virus (at least until the C) were known to have a kind of dark tone, whereas the Nord Lead was more clear, thin, but with presence on the highs.

There is however, despite the fact each machine has it's own character that to some extent is the barrier you can never trespass, there are of course ways to stretch that as close as possible to the sound of the other. Some options were presented here for that. Not only that but, obviously, for plenty more uses in sound design, with multiple simultaneous control or modulation of parameters. That's plenty of fuel.

With a new synthesizer on your hands, how come does it feel like your more into law?

I'm well aware of what I say. I also know what I meant with things I say. I know people can misinterpret something. There's relativity and all of that. But some people - I also know that - will pick on you for no reason at all and seem to have nothing else to do then to pick on you. Even, with a brand new instrument sitting around that could make them dive into the realms of the unknown (each his own limits) and sort of bring something back in the form of frequency content, vibrations, whatever... all is better then moaning really. what are you trying to achieve with this? what are you trying to prove? are you compensating for something else? does it work?

[Rusty]

Thank you all for your replies! Everything has been constructive for me.

I have many things to test on my Virus to push it to a new level now. =)

feedingear: Thanks, I´ll try cutting the EQ!

chimney: I agree, fake/plastic sound is maybe a wrong description to explain the sound. More of a coating above that supresses the sounds as I see it.

bluesmoose: Thanks, I´ll try your tips!

MBTC: I think I put it the wrong way from my first post. It may not be the filters I do have issues with, it´s more of a coating above the sounds that supresses them.

Tweakhead: Thanks. About the Nord example, I do not think the general sound of it is better than a Virus, it´s just that I like the crispy sound of it. The Virus sound is incredible as we´ll know, no doubt about that.
Also, I´ll try your great tip regarding making the EQ following a filter movement: "assign a soft knob (or mod wheel or whatever) to make the EQ band's frequency move with the filter cuttoff (sort like EQ key tracking, made with modulation! handy uh?) if it doesn't sound pleasant enough yet, then keep on fine tunning it: the boost in the EQ could decrease or increase as filter cutoff gets higher, or the other way around. pretty easy to set up on the Matrix."

namnibor: (The Virus is not new to me. I´ve had it since 2007. I guess it´s a keeper since I find it very good and inspiring synth. It would be great if there was a way to push the sound a level and this thread has many good tips that I´ll try. )


I would like to add some things to clear it up a bit:

I do really like my Virus, though I did sound very negative in my first post in this thread. Since I bought the Virus six years ago, I´ve had some great moments with it and it has been very inspiring to me. I have accomplished great things with it, and it has been a very good workhorse for several projects. I´ve done some tracks where the Virus is just perfect. I know for certain that a Nord, as I mentioned as an example, doesn't reach the deepness of a Virus.

The Virus has been hard to get rid of, so I´ve kept it. The possibilities are very inspiring, and just by looking at it, turning some knobs and play around makes me get ideas that I can use with other equipment. I think that the creativity the Virus gives me, is one good reason not to sell it and keep learning it´s possibilites.

Thank you all again :p