TI Glitches

[evilgus]

Hi folks,

Sorry to say I'm finding my "new" TI Keyboard to be very glitchy, I've now had numerous occasions of it hanging with stuck notes, front panel buttons not responding, the wrong patch being played and even all the RAM memory being magically wiped, on startup. I never saw any of these problems on my Snow, so starting to worry that it's a hardware problem. However, I'm not using any sort of surge-protected power-board, so maybe it's more sensitive to power fluctuations? I must admit I have been powering down, using the buttons, then pulling the power-pack out of the power-board, maybe that can introduce a bit of a spike? (The power cable is hard-wired to the rear panel, not like on my Snow. Weird.)

Anyway, I'm buying a decent board today, with switches, and will probably restore to backup and reinstall the OS, plus check all my MIDI cables.

Is there anything else people recommend checking?

Cheers,

EG

[djflan]

Can I ask which VST host you are using?

The only reason that I ask is because I use Studio One and have noticed that when I search for patches using the VST, it makes the virus go bonkers... in and out of tune like mad.

[evilgus]

Actually, I'm not seeing any problems when using Ableton Live 8 and the 2.4 VST, but when connected to my iPad and GMS, or even not connected at all, it's regularly going bonkers. Most problems occur when editing Multis, using the TI panel and choosing patches, especially if MIDI notes are coming in. Ie. Auditioning sounds, for a particular part, or listening to how a few patches sound together.

Problems have included :

1. TI only plays a specific patch, regardless of what Multi patch or Single patch is selected. Needs a reboot, to fix.

2. Stuck notes playing - need to use Panic buttons to silence it.

3. Really stuck notes playing - Panic buttons don't work, have to reboot.

4. 1 or more patches in the edited Multi changing to something different. Or the patch number is set to 1, but bank number still the same.

5. It becomes really slow to move between single patches, or patches in a Multi. After a reboot, it's much quicker.

6. A combination of stuck notes and also my Korg ES-1 drum machine suddenly playing a random pattern, not even what was selected before. (Which would imply some sort of program change went from the TI to GMS, then to the ES-1.)

Numbers 4 and 6 imply that unexpected program changes are occurring, (seemingly) randomly driven from button-clicks on the TI panel. Although my setup has changed, lately, because of the TI, it is striking me as very glitchy and inconsistent. I used to have a MIDI keyboard feeding GMS, then my MIDI devices, now I have the TI as both a MIDI source (keyboard) and MIDI destination (MIDI notes).

Here's my typical MIDI chain:

TI MIDI Out --> iRig MIDI In, into iPad.
iRig MIDI Out --> Korg Electribe ES-1 In.
Korg ES-1 Thru --> TI Keyboard MIDI In.
TI Keyboard Thru --> TI Snow In.

I've logged a call with Access, I'll probably take it to a local service centre, for a check-up. When looking for the serial number, I did notice some screws are missing, so it has been opened up, before... :(

Cheers,

EG

[evilgus]

Hey folks,

Have been working through my issues with Jorg @ Access and nearly have everything resolved. Looks like TI v5.0.0.8 might have had a bug relating to Multis, as it was actually moving between Parts in a Multi that was causing glitching, when a song was playing via MIDI. Under v5.1.1.0, I can occasionally get it to happen, but it's pretty in-frequent.

Have also determined that it only occurs when my Korg ES-1 is in the MIDI chain, so I'm still trying to figure out why. I don't get these issues using the VST in Seq mode, so it's a MIDI-only problem.

During my tests, I also noticed that my current song (in progress) actually sounds better when played using MIDI from iPad/GMS, than it does from Live8 using the VST. (I've exported the entire song from GMS to Live, so I can do more automation and post-processing work.) The keyboard parts just sound a little bit more distinct and everything just "pops" a little better. Any idea why?

Cheers,

EG

[Berni]

It's because the virus using the vst uses the USB connection for the sound as opposed to the external out's of the virus using midi.

[evilgus]

It's because the virus using the vst uses the USB connection for the sound as opposed to the external out's of the virus using midi.
Understood, but if I'm using the TI as my sound card, then the sound is then going through the same D/A converters to the audio outputs, yes? Forgot to mention I did the comparison using the audio outs to a mixer and then monitors.

Cheers,

EG

[djflan]

I'm assuming is sounds better when recorded externally (i.e. not using the usb audio path). ?

There are several reports of this. I prefer not to use the USB audio simply because the virus seems quite a bit more stable without it. I also notice the USB audio eats DSP.

[evilgus]

I'm assuming is sounds better when recorded externally (i.e. not using the usb audio path). ?
Well, in both cases, I had analog audio going straight out of the TI to my mixer, but one was sequenced by the TI VST over USB and the other by plain old MIDI. The MIDI setup just sounds cleaner and tighter, especially with one or more arps running.

EG

[MBTC]

The thing about USB in general, particularly the older implementations (such as the version 1.1 mode of the Virus), is that regardless of throughput potential, they tend to not perform well with regard to latency-sensitive tasks. USB just wasn't designed latency in mind as a high priority. It can perform well enough for some things under some conditions, it's just far less reliable than the alternatives.

For example look at the Focusrite audio interface lineup. For their Firewire or Thunderbolt interfaces, they advertise near-zero latency, but they don't make that claim for their USB products. There has to be something to that.

[evilgus]

Thanks, MB. I guess I'll continue to use USB for quick, convenient tasks, but use MIDI for everything else. Talk about a fatal flaw in an expensive product!!!

Cheers,

EG

[MBTC]

Thanks, MB. I guess I'll continue to use USB for quick, convenient tasks, but use MIDI for everything else. Talk about a fatal flaw in an expensive product!!!

Cheers,

EG

In some ways I think not setting expectations clearly enough for USB might have been the biggest product flaw. When Total Integration was first introduced, there weren't too many options. Thunderbolt wasn't around yet, Apple and others were kind of rejecting Firewire, yet every device already had USB ports. For PC or desktop Mac owners, I guess they could have come out with some sort of proprietary card that goes inside the computer combined with a proprietary cable and provides adequate audio streaming performance, but then they've locked out all the folks with laptops or other non expandable rigs (iMac etc).

At this point I'm just glad to have the VST integration over USB and using the analog outs for audio. It works well for what I do. But yeah, there is the issue of price / total value. That's one reason I'm sticking with a Snow for now.

[evilgus]

After getting a full TI, I have a new-found respect for my Snow, it seems more reliable and is certainly a lot easier to use. I have a suspicion that it also sounds slightly better, but that might just be because my Snow is more recent than my TI. In retrospect, I probably should have bought a better MIDI keyboard and a few good VSTs, or maybe Arturia KeyLab, to get all the analog synth re-creations.

Cheers,

EG

[Berni]

In some ways I think not setting expectations clearly enough for USB might have been the biggest product flaw. When Total Integration was first introduced, there weren't too many options. Thunderbolt wasn't around yet, Apple and others were kind of rejecting Firewire, yet every device already had USB ports. For PC or desktop Mac owners, I guess they could have come out with some sort of proprietary card that goes inside the computer combined with a proprietary cable and provides adequate audio streaming performance, but then they've locked out all the folks with laptops or other non expandable rigs (iMac etc).

At this point I'm just glad to have the VST integration over USB and using the analog outs for audio. It works well for what I do. But yeah, there is the issue of price / total value. That's one reason I'm sticking with a Snow for now.

This is how it's always been unfortunately & probably wont get any better. Development of the virus has ground to a halt & software updates few & far between. They have abandoned pro tools users altogether & with new operating systems & host software being constantly updated the future does not look good for TI users...thank god for midi :rolleyes:

[MBTC]

This is how it's always been unfortunately & probably wont get any better. Development of the virus has ground to a halt & software updates few & far between. They have abandoned pro tools users altogether & with new operating systems & host software being constantly updated the future does not look good for TI users...thank god for midi :rolleyes:

I noticed Access has the Indigo plugin for ProTools HD DSP, which claims to be exact same synth code running on ProTools DSP, eight multi-timbral synths per processor. I'm guessing this offering is why the lack of interest in Pro Tools support for the TI?

[Berni]

I noticed Access has the Indigo plugin for ProTools HD DSP, which claims to be exact same synth code running on ProTools DSP, eight multi-timbral synths per processor. I'm guessing this offering is why the lack of interest in Pro Tools support for the TI?

It's because pro tools abandoned the RTAS plug in format a few years ago & now uses the 64 bit AAX format which is not supported by access. Every other plug in I own has got on board with this but since the RTAS version of TI NEVER worked properly I seriously doubt they will come out with one now.

[MBTC]

It's because pro tools abandoned the RTAS plug in format a few years ago & now uses the 64 bit AAX format which is not supported by access. Every other plug in I own has got on board with this but since the RTAS version of TI NEVER worked properly I seriously doubt they will come out with one now.

VST is still the gold standard, and I would never use a host that didn't fully support it. In fact I switched to the host that invented it :)

[Berni]

VST is still the gold standard, and I would never use a host that didn't fully support it. In fact I switched to the host that invented it :)
I switched to Ableton Live because I couldn't get the virus to work with pro tools Lol Best move I ever made. Pro tools has gone down hill since Avid took over.