Best DAW for TI...

[IanT]

Yes, I know this is the proverbial string question, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has used more than one DAW and see how they compare, particularly in regard to use with a Virus.

My aim is to create music with Virus and virtual instruments so the 'built in' ones would be important.

I'm an ex-Cubase user - before it was actually Cubase! - but lapsed for many a year now, currently trying Reaper but being tempted back to C altho I suspect it's now changed beyond all recognition... I confess I miss a real music score.

Also, Virus comes with several setups for well-known sequencers and you have to fiddle with Reaper a bit to get the best results, particularly in regard to latency. Having said all that, I have read about the occasional latency prob with C.

And given that I'm going to have to start almost from scratch, learning a new DAW isn't so, er, DAWnting... :roll:

Ian

[MBTC]

If Virus compatibility is important to you, be sure to stick with the list of officially supported ones from Access. Over the years it seems users of this forum have had the best luck with Cubase and Virus compatibility. Other DAWs have their strengths too but when it comes to plug-in compatibility, Steinberg products are the gold standard by which others must follow.

Since you already have some familiarity with Cubase I think your choice is easy. Don't limit yourself to built-in instruments of the DAW. The ones that come with Cubase are quite good but third party plug-ins are often a lot better. Do the $10 upgrade from Padshop (built in) to Padshop Pro, that's a great instrument.

[IanT]

Big tick for Cubase, then... :)

I was sort of hoping there was a viable alternative that I could try. I tried Logic when it was on the PC and didn't understand it! And I thought Cakewalk was clunky. But that was eons ago... :(

Tempted by Ableton but I'm not really a pattern-based composer although I like the idea opf using it live.

So, a Q...

I've connected the Virus to the PC with via USB. When set to record, should the DAW record audio or MIDI data or nothing? Not getting anything in Reaper at the mo.

Ian

[MBTC]

I would avoid Logic personally, for the simple fact it comes from Apple, and that's from someone that owns a copy of it as well as 3 Macs.

Ableton is a supported host, popular and I believe some use it with the Virus with varying levels of success.

Someone else would need to chime in on the Reaper question. Reaper support forum may be a good place to look for Virus users and get better hits, I don't here it mentioned here often.

FLStudio is a nice DAW that would scratch the itch for something different on the PC, and with lifetime upgrades free its a great value, but it's not on the officially supported list. People do use the Virus VST in it all the time, but of course "hey it works" with any given current version is very different than official support.

[IanT]

Great, thanks.

Have been tempted to consider a Mac and Logic but scanning the forums for comparisons, Cubase generally comes out better. And cheaper (comparatively, given you need a Mac). And not Mac :p

Although I'm currently trying Reaper, the Q about recording from the USB was general - Does it record, and what, in any DAW? I don't actually have a MIDI I/F (having totally got rid of my entire studio gear way back...) so wondering if I need one.

FL, again tried when it was just a tracker(!) :eek: Looks better now :) but no score. But good price and good deal all round.

Ian

[MBTC]

Great, thanks.

Have been tempted to consider a Mac and Logic but scanning the forums for comparisons, Cubase generally comes out better. And cheaper (comparatively, given you need a Mac). And not Mac :p

Although I'm currently trying Reaper, the Q about recording from the USB was general - Does it record, and what, in any DAW? I don't actually have a MIDI I/F (having totally got rid of my entire studio gear way back...) so wondering if I need one.

FL, again tried when it was just a tracker(!) :eek: Looks better now :) but no score. But good price and good deal all round.

Ian

Your question is more DAW specific than you might realize at this point, because in most DAWs with the Virus there are many ways of doing things. For example I don't use USB for the audio streaming portion (I use analog outs exclusively), using USB only for the MIDI. So, no MIDI cables running from my Virus other than the USB cable, and the short but inadequate answer is that yes you can do that. How the MIDI information and the audio are separated and worked with in the host is very DAW specific.

FL started out as a program called Fruity Loops (unfortunate marketing decision) in the mid-late 90s, and evolved into something that competes with the best hosts out there. But, it is pattern based which you said is not your preference, and also is not designed for scoring as you mentioned, so probably not what you want. I still think Cubase is your best bet overall. I think FL and Ableton are very EDM oriented, whereas Cubase is less conducive to live performances than Ableton but can do a lot more than EDM of course.

[IanT]

It looks like good ol' Cubase again, then...

So, regarding the USB, with the 'right' DAW (which one?) this would allow you to record MIDI data (not audio?) from the Virus, and then output the audio from VSTs and the Virus through the Virus's audio outs. Is that the idea?

I was planning on doing EDM. Never too late to start, eh...? :p

[MBTC]

It looks like good ol' Cubase again, then...

So, regarding the USB, with the 'right' DAW (which one?) this would allow you to record MIDI data (not audio?) from the Virus, and then output the audio from VSTs and the Virus through the Virus's audio outs. Is that the idea?

I was planning on doing EDM. Never too late to start, eh...? :p

I may have assumed you weren't the EDM type because you mentioned scoring, which I don't think is common in the EDM scene (I may be wrong).

Yes you can record MIDI, audio or both or neither through the USB, and this is true for all DAWs that are supported by Virus. The DAW specific part I mentioned is because you asked why it might not be working as you expected in Reaper -- that kind of stuff can vary a great deal between DAW products.

[IanT]

Ah, I see. MIDI AND audio, that'll be neat! I'll take a look at the Cubase trial.

I'm probably not the EDM type :) Never tried writing any before but now I've got the synth... :p

And musically I think in terms of chords, rhythms and riffs and I can relate to them better in a score, see what's going on.

Much appreciate your info.

[evilgus]

I'm happy to put a vote in for Ableton Live, I'm finding it fairly stable with my Snow and TI and very good for song-writing and also performing. (Particularly for EDM or similar styles.) It has a normal, "linear" mode, like Cubase, for writing songs, plus a pattern-based mode for live playing. It did take me a few intensive weeks of sequencing and arranging before I got the hang of it, but now, I'm not sure how I managed with my previous setup! (Either Cubase Lite, or GMS on iPad.)

I've also just purchased the Akai Mini MPC controller, so I can launch various drum-loops and FX, in real-time, whilst I play arps and pads and my bandmate solos his ass off, on piano and Moog Sub 37. (He's a very talented jazz/fusion player.) All in all, it's fantastic fun!

BTW, I'm using USB from laptop to Virus and also using the Virus as a sound card for Ableton, so just have to plug the Virus outs into a mixer or PA, etc. It has been a bit fiddly to balance the Virus patch volumes with Ableton "clip" (sample) volumes, but a fairly normal thing to have to do.

Cheers,

EG

[Berni]

Just my 2c. The whole TI thing is most stable on the Cubase platform hands down, the AU version in Logic runs ok for most user's & the RTAS version for pro tools avoid like the plague. Because Ableton Live can run AU & VST plugin's there's a good chance you will have it stable in Live which is my DAW & also the only one that can do the 'Live' thing as well as the studio thing. It can also do a lot of other things that conventional linear DAW's can't, the routing possibilities are endless...way too much to get into right here but I wouldn't swap it for any other DAW on the market right now.

[IanT]

Hi Berni

Cubase seems to be getting the votes so far. Are you an ex-Cubase user?

I guess I ought to try to Ableton demo but I think in 'notes' and like to see a score. What things can it do that other DAWs can't?

[MBTC]

Thought I'd also add that once you narrow it down to two contenders, it would not be a waste of money to buy the $99 version of each. Yes they have time limited trials but I find those to be annoying because I don't like time window pressure. The minimal version will be enough to evaluate the workflow and the philosophy of the DAW and help you figure out which one you want to be on the upgrade path for. I can't think of anything in the basic versions that would be different with regard to trying Virus compatibility, which seems to be your initial goal. In my mind the $99 spent on the one you didn't choose is not wasted, because you've increased your knowledge by knowing how to do things a different way in a different host, making you better overall. It's also helpful because sometimes if something is behaving badly, it gives you two separate environments to A/B test whatever it is that's in question. Sometimes you see something in a host that's not your primary preference that inspires you to try something new by switching over to the one you do like and trying to reproduce that feature. Also I think the freely downloadable FLStudio demo lets you do everything except save your project file, unless they've changed something.

[Berni]

Hi Berni

Cubase seems to be getting the votes so far. Are you an ex-Cubase user?

I guess I ought to try to Ableton demo but I think in 'notes' and like to see a score. What things can it do that other DAWs can't?

I've used them all from soundtracker onwards:)

Check out the demo or lite version of Live better still, and yes there's piano scrolls in Live :roll:

[recursion loop]

Although Studio One is not an officially supported DAW I'm having very smooth experience with S1 2.65 and Virus Snow on Windows 7. S1 "track transfrom" function seems to be designed with Virus TI in mind, when you want to bounce your Virus Control track into audio you just hit a button and it automatically recognises that the rendering should be in online mode. Then you can move the resulting audio file, copy/paste it, cut into several audio clips and then transform back into Virus Control track by one click. Thus working with a Virus is as close to working with a native plugin as it gets. Also I don't have many bugs - there were some occuring when I was trying to insert Virus plugin into busy old projects, but in new projects Virus Control is stable and reliable.

[IanT]

Yes, it looks like a good program and that's a brill feature. I'm starting to believe that no one DAW will do everything :-)

However, because I was familiar with Cubase and I do like to see a score, I've dug out an old copy and I'm currently playing with that.

And having just splashed out on Komplete Ultimate 10 (+ Maschine AND an S9) there's not a lot of music getting made. But it's fun... :-)

[Muze]

On Mac Studio One v3 seems to play nicely with my Ti, and I like the fact that the realtime render mode kicks in automatically for the TI, even for 'convert to audio' (aka bounce in place or freeze). When I was on Windows I found Sonar worked best, again it has a nice realtime freeze and it seemed to be very snappy in terms of latency too.