Headphone Impedence

[IanT]

I'm thinking it'll be a good idea to get a set of headphones for mixing and the like.

Currently running soft synthies on a computer and thru the Virus audio outs.

Anyone know what the headphone output of the Virus TI Polar is?

I'm currently considering a pair of AKG K702s which have an impedance of 62 Ohm. Would I need an amp? If so, any suggestions (and trying to keep it cheap!).

[MBTC]

It gets down to individual preferences and needs, but I've got an aversion to dropping lots of money on headphones, I'd rather put the money into good monitors.

I use Sony MDR 7506 for headphones when I need to keep things quieter, I bought them maybe 7 years ago, I think they were $80 back then, and even cheaper now. Impedance is listed as 63 Ohms, I've certainly never blown them and they work as new despite plenty of abuse (for a while I was in an apartment and had no choice but to mix with headphones). A couple of years ago I replaced the stock ear pads because just like all leather ones they peel off after a while. Velour ear pads are so much more comfortable anyway, and that's one of the good things about them (ubiquity of the model and availability of aftermarket parts).

I bet in a blind test against higher-end headphones it would be hard to tell them apart. This thread reminded me what a great product they turned out to be.

[MBTC]

Oh and for me, for the most part amplification to the headphones comes from the amp in the audio interface, Virus outs go into that.

[IanT]

The Sony's look good but are close-backed and I think open-backed are better for mixing. My setup isn't really conducive to monitors at the moment but I agree they would be preferable. But now I know the AKGs should work with the Virus, thanks.

[Timo]

Just upgraded my headphones from AKG K271 mk1 to ATH-M50X a month or so ago and love them, individual instruments sound so clear in a mix. M50X' impedance is only 38Ω so works with anything.

Closed cans, though, for late night noodling when monitors aren't an option.

Always hated the 'pleather' (plastic-leather) earpads of the AKG K271, so did a bit of research and bought some third-party Shure HPAEC940 velour earpads and they fit the M50X like a glove. Nice and comfortable for extended use and no sweating.

[IanT]

The M50s were on my shortlist (compiled while fact finding) but are close-backed. Do you mix with them? Everyone says you need open-backed for production and mixing.

[Timo]

Probably not the best person to ask, was born completely deaf in my left ear so mixing is not my forté, hoho!

The separation and clarity of instruments in mixes in my good ear was still very noticeable in the transition from K271 to M50X, though.

Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro (also closed-back) was the other headphone on my short list, but people mentioned they had an omni-present low end and a mid scoop. Never got the chance to try them out in person, though.

Sound-on-Sound did a heaphone shootout a few years ago which I referred to when researching:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan10/articles/studioheadphones.htm

They do seem to go for open-backed for mixing where possible.

I only chose closed-back for tracking/playing music at anti-social hours, rather than for mixing down on. I have monitors for that, so I can sort of hear both channels.

Open-wise, the Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro (semi openback) and 990 Pro (fully open) looked good. 250Ω as standard, though I do believe there are different impedance variations available for each model (32Ω, 80Ω and 250Ω). From what I gather, the higher the impedance the more chance it will need amplifying but could give better sound. 32Ω heaphones can easily be powered from laptop, ipod, etc., 250Ω could possibly need amplifying if you don't have a soundcard or similar to boost it.

Given the low 38Ω impedance of the M50X, the sound is already pretty loud by the time I've turned my Indigo up to a third (when using the Indigo's headphone output). Anything over that is hearing-damage territory.

Like MBTC, though, I tend to route my Virus and other synths into my soundcard and monitor the soundcard via heaphones rather than use the Indigo's headphone-out. Usually soundcards offer some form of amplification for those who need it.

[IanT]

Ok to that, Timo :eek:

I've read all the Best Buys and guides and the Beyers were on the list, too. It seems a very personal decision and, of course, impossible to decide because you can't listen to them over the net! :)

And, apparently, lots of them need burning in - the 702s for 50-300 hrs! - so that's more impossible.

So just have to be guided by opinion and reviews so it's a bit of a lottery in a sense but I think you'd be ok with any of the recommended ones.

I hope!

I'm just waiting for someone to pop up here and say NOT THE 702S before I place my order :p

[Berni]

Ok to that, Timo :eek:

I've read all the Best Buys and guides and the Beyers were on the list, too. It seems a very personal decision and, of course, impossible to decide because you can't listen to them over the net! :)

And, apparently, lots of them need burning in - the 702s for 50-300 hrs! - so that's more impossible.

So just have to be guided by opinion and reviews so it's a bit of a lottery in a sense but I think you'd be ok with any of the recommended ones.

I hope!

I'm just waiting for someone to pop up here and say NOT THE 702S before I place my order :p

I recently got a pair of Sennheiser HD600's which I'm reasonably happy with but to be honest most of the music I make has a lot of low frequencies so any headphones at any price aren't much use because anything less than an 8" woofer is unable to reproduce them.

[IanT]

Very fair comment.

I'm just trying to make the best of a poor situation.

If your soundcloud is anything to go by, you're doing and awesome job! :)

[MBTC]

The Sony's look good but are close-backed and I think open-backed are better for mixing. My setup isn't really conducive to monitors at the moment but I agree they would be preferable. But now I know the AKGs should work with the Virus, thanks.

Yes, they are a fall back for when the monitors are not an option, and they are not the best available, but they do provide a wow-factor when it comes to bang-for-buck.

Honestly even with the monitors, my studio is far from ideal or capable of top notch mixing, its just not an issue for me because these days when I get time for music activity it is purely recreational, I can't even remember the last time a complete track emerged from my gear. I can burn hours just trying to recreate a synth sound, or get a better understanding about the workings of a single instrument. Wish I had time for more.

[Berni]

Very fair comment.

I'm just trying to make the best of a poor situation.

If your soundcloud is anything to go by, you're doing and awesome job! :)

Thanks man, but yeah headphones are no substitute for a decent pair of monitors. Having said that if you can get tuned in to a decent pair then you can go pretty far, but don't skimp if they are your only audio source...the best studio/equipment in the world will only sound as good as the speakers you are hearing it through :)

[IanT]

:eek: Ordered the 702s. Should arrive tomorrow.

Couldn't quite justify the extra for the 712s whose main difference seems to be an artificial 3dB boost to the low end which would probably be a good thing given they're headphones.

But we'll see how these go.

[IanT]

Well, I was expecting to be excited! :lol: But then I've nothing to compare them with - other than the single!! computer speaker I was running everything through! So at least I'm getting stereo :cool:

With Komplete, however, I am picking up lots of clicks and crackles. Not on everything. Some samples, but not all, and some synth patches. I thought it might be overstretching the CPU but the Task manager is only showing 25%.

Could this be a prob with the Virus audio out?

[Berni]

Well, I was expecting to be excited! :lol: But then I've nothing to compare them with - other than the single!! computer speaker I was running everything through! So at least I'm getting stereo :cool:

With Komplete, however, I am picking up lots of clicks and crackles. Not on everything. Some samples, but not all, and some synth patches. I thought it might be overstretching the CPU but the Task manager is only showing 25%.

Could this be a prob with the Virus audio out?
The virus is notorious for introducing pops & crackles into the audio but usually when using the TI software. Could be a ton of things depending on how you are using the Komplete instruments & your computer set-up. Without a lot more details it's hard to even hazard a guess & I'm on a mac so can't help much I'm afraid.

[IanT]

Ah...

Just running Maschine in stand-alone mode and monitoring through the Virus headphones output. Not running the Virus software although, of course, the audio driver is routed via Maschine.

I anyone has any suggestions, things to try, that'd be great.

Otherwise, maybe a dedicated audio interface would do the job (heck, more expense!) although my laptop only has 3 USB slots, all full.

And it defeats one of the reasons for getting a Virus. Sort of...

[Berni]

Ah...

Just running Maschine in stand-alone mode and monitoring through the Virus headphones output. Not running the Virus software although, of course, the audio driver is routed via Maschine.

I anyone has any suggestions, things to try, that'd be great.

Otherwise, maybe a dedicated audio interface would do the job (heck, more expense!) although my laptop only has 3 USB slots, all full.

And it defeats one of the reasons for getting a Virus. Sort of...
if your computer has some sort of built in sound try that as the audio output & see if the problems still persist.

[MBTC]

I've lost track of exactly how you have things configured, but a few ideas:

1. The CPU showing 25% could be indicative that a single core is struggling (remember the theory that Maschine is single-threaded?). On a quad core CPU that would be about right.

2. But why is it struggling? Hard to know exactly, but the first thing I would do is try something other than the Virus ASIO driver. You might remember my recommendation about introducing new gear into your setup one item at a time, because too much at once can be overwhelming. Part of that is because it gives you time to understand the quirks of each piece of equipment, and makes it easier to isolate and use process of elimination to troubleshoot.

3. What do the buffer / latency settings say for each driver choice you have? Two kinds of popping and crackling are common topics, one has to do with audio streaming over USB (i.e. Virus or some other instrument + the limits of USB) and the other has to do with driver buffer/latency. I would focus on the latter since Maschine is not streaming audio.

4. Might try separating the USB input from Maschine from the USB from the Virus as much as possible, like if your PC has ports on the front and back try having one front one back. This can help keep them off the same internal hub, there could be some sort of USB conflict there.

5. Try running Masching as a plugin in the DAW to see if it makes a difference.

[Berni]

Thinking a bit more about the problem, I have a late 2011 macbook pro & it will not run Maschine & the virus together they are both total usb hogs so it probably is a usb/bandwith issue. Like MBTC says try narrowing down a few thing, try some of the NI instruments in stand alone & see what happens.

[IanT]

Thanks Guys!

Lots of things to try :)

Only thing I've done so far is switch the USB connections. I had the Virus and Maschine plugged into two USB 3 sockets next to each other. I've moved the Virus to the other side of the laptop and into a USB 2 socked (and moved the mouse onto the USB 3).

Only tried one synth so far - Rounds - which was causing noticeable crackles an it's a def improvement but still need to do more testing.

Fingers Xed!