Mac OS Big Sur

[Berni]

Well I have been putting off updating my computers OS for some time knowing how slow Virus TI updates are these days but most of my other programs have moved on a long time ago so I updated to the latest mac OS, Big Sur. No surprise then that my Virus is no longer working. Looking on Access's web site it seems that the current version is not even compatible with Catalina, the last OS! Anyone have any idea if they are working on anything to fix this?

[MBTC]

From a quick read, things for audio over USB do not look hopeful, but apparently according to some, MIDI over USB works under both Catalina and Big Sur. When I still had my Virus, USB audio never worked very well anyway, laggy and disappointing. I had to run audio straight to the interface and use the plug-in for sound creation. Problem was I had a Snow, which doesn't have enough knobs on the hardware itself, so once all of these great analog synths started emerging, I had less and less reason to mess with the Virus, so I ended up selling it. Once I had an OB-6, Prophet 6, Prophet 12, Rev 2 etc there was no turning back. I will get a Prophet10 soon. These synths don't have plug-ins, the beauty is in not only the raw sound but the immediacy of the hardware. Ten years ago this level of synth glory wasn't available, now it's back.

If I'm not mistaken you have the desktop Ti2? If so, I'd just say enjoy all the knobs on the front and get in the habit of using those to tweak instead of the software... definitely ditch the USB audio, it was never worth a shit anyway. For longer term viability, consider Windows for your DAW host because Apple doesn't give a fuck about backward compatibility and no vendor is going to keep rewriting their software every time a new OS comes out unless they have an ongoing healthy revenue stream to support the upgrades.

Meanwhile I can run software I wrote 35 years ago on Windows! Microsoft has their faults but they are the absolute kings of backward compatibility, and if you want a stable music production environment there are a lot of advantages. If you made the switch to Mac from Windows XP, just know that things have changed a lot on Windows, it is a slick OS and nothing like XP, Vista etc.

Trust me I did the Logic/MacOS thing for a while. Combining Apple's habit of breaking changes every couple of years with Kemper's lack of give-a-fuckness is a recipe for disaster. Plus Mac has now deviated from Intel processors so they can make their laptops more like their phone... I doubt the overall outcome will be good for music software vendors.
The other option is to sell your Virus... it's still worth a lot and there are so many great hardware and software alternatives these days.

I did see somewhere a rumor that Kemper might be working on a new synth, but it could be just a rumor. I noticed Waldorf dropped the price on the Kyra... if I were going to buy a VA synth today that might be the one, it's powerful as hell being FPGA based. Not sure if the Kyra price drop is an indication in short-term lack of demand for VA? All of that is just trends that come and go. Vintage analog is all the rage now, but I've seen that come and go in the past too.

[Berni]

consider Windows for your DAW host

Lol



and does the latest OS run the TI software?


I have an old laptop that will do the job but that is not the point. The point is access are still selling this thing and it doesn't work. They are the ones with the most 'don't give a fuckness'...like they ever had.

[MBTC]

consider Windows for your DAW host

Lol

and does the latest OS run the TI software?

I have an old laptop that will do the job but that is not the point. The point is access are still selling this thing and it doesn't work. They are the ones with the most 'don't give a fuckness'...like they ever had.

Yeah, the latest Windows OS runs the TI software fine and can run most DOS software from the 80's if you wanted it to. If the laptop is old you might run into issues between the laptop hardware and later versions of the OS, but even if so Windows is still light years beyond Apple with regard to backward compatibility.

I get what you're saying about Access, they should update their software but by now everyone knows what's up with them. That's why my general advice is to bail on the software for anything other than an editor/librarian, supposedly it works for that under Big Sur.

It's just that Apple is the undisputed king of planned obsolescence, and breaking the OS to facilitate selling you something new. Combine that planned obsolescence mentality of Apple with the sitting-on-a-corncob mentality of Kemper, and you have a recipe for disaster and basically the opposite of a stable music making environment. And it's only going to get worse with the new Apple processors.

[Berni]

Absolutely nothing works with Big Sur. All I get is a message saying the developer needs to update the software to run on this OS.

[MBTC]

Absolutely nothing works with Big Sur. All I get is a message saying the developer needs to update the software to run on this OS.

Maybe get in touch with one of these guys to see what he did differently to get MIDI over USB working: https://www.virus.info/wbb_suite_3/index.php?recent-activity-list/

[Berni]

Maybe get in touch with one of these guys to see what he did differently to get MIDI over USB working: https://www.virus.info/wbb_suite_3/index.php?recent-activity-list/


The days of me pulling my hair out and wasting countless hours trying to get my virus 'working' are over my friend. There is even a greyed out no entry sign on the virus control icon so I presume somebody is bullshitting.

[MBTC]

The days of me pulling my hair out and wasting countless hours trying to get my virus 'working' are over my friend. There is even a greyed out no entry sign on the virus control icon so I presume somebody is bullshitting.

Not bullshitting, others have said they were able to get MIDI over USB working, another thread here: virus.info/forum/index.php?thread/7660-virus-ti-not-compatible-with-macos-catalina-big-sur/&pageNo=1

But who knows if it's working under certain DAWS and not others. If it were me, I wouldn't chase it down either. I would just either use the controls on the Virus to do everything, or sell it, or switch to Windows. There are a lot of synths out there that are easy to get great sounds out of without messing with plugins. All my outboard synths sound better than my Snow did anyway.

[Berni]

Not bullshitting, others have said they were able to get MIDI over USB working, another thread here: virus.info/forum/index.php?thread/7660-virus-ti-not-compatible-with-macos-catalina-big-sur/&pageNo=1

But who knows if it's working under certain DAWS and not others. If it were me, I wouldn't chase it down either. I would just either use the controls on the Virus to do everything, or sell it, or switch to Windows. There are a lot of synths out there that are easy to get great sounds out of without messing with plugins. All my outboard synths sound better than my Snow did anyway.


I am using Live 10 and neither the plug in works or VC so the TI thing is not working. Midi over USB? I can stick a midi cable in the virus and it will work, what I want is the software to work!

[MBTC]

I am using Live 10 and neither the plug in works or VC so the TI thing is not working. Midi over USB? I can stick a midi cable in the virus and it will work, what I want is the software to work!

I've been integrating synths with computers since the mid 80's and I cannot remember a time I got what I wanted :) It's usually quite a grind to get everything working properly.

When I refer to MIDI over USB, I don't mean just a MIDI cable I mean that some folks are successfully running the software as a librarian and to edit the sound. Seriously, I urge you to do some reading on this. I don't know why its working for some not for others but I know you won't get anywhere with it if you limit your understanding to what is posted in this forum.

Go to the source of information, try to figure out what the differences are. Otherwise consider the alternatives I posted. Apple+Access Music = No Future.

https://www.virus.info/forum/index.php?thread/7135-virus-ti-software-suite-for-macos-10-15-catalina-compatibility-warning/

That's about the best I can do, sorry

[Berni]

I've been integrating synths with computers since the mid 80's and I cannot remember a time I got what I wanted :) It's usually quite a grind to get everything working properly.

When I refer to MIDI over USB, I don't mean just a MIDI cable I mean that some folks are successfully running the software as a librarian and to edit the sound. Seriously, I urge you to do some reading on this. I don't know why its working for some not for others but I know you won't get anywhere with it if you limit your understanding to what is posted in this forum.

Go to the source of information, try to figure out what the differences are. Otherwise consider the alternatives I posted. Apple+Access Music = No Future.

https://www.virus.info/forum/index.php?thread/7135-virus-ti-software-suite-for-macos-10-15-catalina-compatibility-warning/

That's about the best I can do, sorry


Been at this quite a while now myself and I can tell you nobody has got VC or the plug-in working on a mac with Big Sur. Just trying to boot up VC you will get the following error message. "The developer of this app needs to update it to work with this version of macOS. Contact the developer for more information." So yeah, pretty much dead in the water...don't believe everything you read on forums.

[MBTC]

Been at this quite a while now myself and I can tell you nobody has got VC or the plug-in working on a mac with Big Sur. Just trying to boot up VC you will get the following error message. "The developer of this app needs to update it to work with this version of macOS. Contact the developer for more information." So yeah, pretty much dead in the water...don't believe everything you read on forums.

I guess between that conclusion and Access' official word, there's your answer....so what's next then? Move to Windows? Sell the Virus? Change workflow to use audio outs only? Let us know what you decide.

[Berni]

I guess between that conclusion and Access' official word, there's your answer....so what's next then? Move to Windows? Sell the Virus? Change workflow to use audio outs only? Let us know what you decide.


Moving to windows is definitely not an option and selling the virus would leave a big hole in my rack so going to keep hold of it. TBH I don't really use it that often anymore as I'm pretty much software instruments all the way these days. In fact it's the only hardware synth I own now. Software is sooo much cheaper, reliable and updated regularly. Who needs the headache's that come with hardware when the software sounds just as good nowadays anyhoo.
Every time a new shiny hardware synth comes on the market that takes my eye. I only have to look at the virus to remind me of how much of a waste of time and money they are.

[MBTC]

Moving to windows is definitely not an option and selling the virus would leave a big hole in my rack so going to keep hold of it. TBH I don't really use it that often anymore as I'm pretty much software instruments all the way these days. In fact it's the only hardware synth I own now. Software is sooo much cheaper, reliable and updated regularly. Who needs the headache's that come with hardware when the software sounds just as good nowadays anyhoo.
Every time a new shiny hardware synth comes on the market that takes my eye. I only have to look at the virus to remind me of how much of a waste of time and money they are.

For a long time I believed the same thing, because I purged my life of hardware for many years. My lifestyle had me moving often, so maintaining a studio with outboard gear made no sense. Eventually I tried to add a TI2 desktop and the USB frustrations had me send it back. Many years later bought a used Snow, and at the price point was willing to live with some tradeoffs such as using VC and USB for the non-audio functions. And even then I had the same conclusion that you did, that software had gotten good enough that the Virus was barely worth messing with.

But then I started buying Sequential synths.. they sound so much better than software or the Virus. I barely use soft synths at all now because I can't stand the sound of them next to the real thing. Software and even virtual analog sounds dull, lifeless, etc.

Point is, don't judge the state of hardware synths based on the Virus, because it does not represent what's available anymore.

[Berni]

For a long time I believed the same thing, because I purged my life of hardware for many years. My lifestyle had me moving often, so maintaining a studio with outboard gear made no sense. Eventually I tried to add a TI2 desktop and the USB frustrations had me send it back. Many years later bought a used Snow, and at the price point was willing to live with some tradeoffs such as using VC and USB for the non-audio functions. And even then I had the same conclusion that you did, that software had gotten good enough that the Virus was barely worth messing with.

But then I started buying Sequential synths.. they sound so much better than software or the Virus. I barely use soft synths at all now because I can't stand the sound of them next to the real thing. Software and even virtual analog sounds dull, lifeless, etc.

Point is, don't judge the state of hardware synths based on the Virus, because it does not represent what's available anymore.


Oh I dare say they do with there hefty price tag they should be something else.
There has been no new feature updates for the virus in years or hardware updates for that matter but who's to say Sequential might go down like access have? If a software synth stops getting supported then no big financial loss but when hardware loses support you are left with a very useless box of knobs that has cost you thousands of dollars.

[MBTC]

Oh I dare say they do with there hefty price tag they should be something else. There has been no new feature updates for the virus in years or hardware updates for that matter but who's to say Sequential might go down like access have? If a software synth stops getting supported then no big financial loss but when hardware loses support you are left with a very useless box of knobs that has cost you thousands of dollars.

They are expensive synths to be sure, but you get what you pay for in terms of sound quality.

The original Sequential Circuits already went out of business once... digital synths came along and nobody wanted crappy old analog anymore (lol! but seriously the DX7 and the inexpensive digital synth invasion was part of what killed it). Dave Smith just turned 70, and who knows how long he wants to continue or what will happen when he retires.

But here's the difference. 40 years later, an original Prophet 5 that originally went for $4k can now fetch between $6k-12k no problem. A brand new Prophet 5 (which has more features) can be had for $3.5k. Do you see where I'm going with that? Sequential instruments are an investment, are built to last for decades and can be serviced and repaired as needed. They are designed to be used as hardware instruments. Nobody is going to reverse engineer Virus Control software and fix it for Access, both because it would be a pain in the ass (not fun like restoring hardware) and also for copyright reasons.

Even though Dave Smith invented MIDI and was a pioneer in software synth plugins, he is not a big fan of software integration for the very reasons we are talking about here... he doesn't want to be running in circles trying to keep his shit working on another vendors' OS.. he has talked about this in depth in interviews. He wants to make musical instruments that are designed to be played, not be fiddled around with a mouse. Yes you can buy editors that help you do some things on the computer but they are meant to be PLAYED, and therein lies the difference.

I'm not saying everyone needs lots of analog polys. It depends on what kind of music you want to make.

It is definitely possible to make good music using only software. But if the analog sound is your thing, the really good soft-synths eat up half your CPU and still aren't in the same league. When you've got 4 or 5 rich sounding poly synths going in a mix, and you look at your CPU and its still sitting at 9% then it becomes clear... yeah software alone can't do that. I still use plug-ins for certain things like samples and FX...

[Berni]

They are expensive synths to be sure, but you get what you pay for in terms of sound quality.

The original Sequential Circuits already went out of business once... digital synths came along and nobody wanted crappy old analog anymore (lol! but seriously the DX7 and the inexpensive digital synth invasion was part of what killed it). Dave Smith just turned 70, and who knows how long he wants to continue or what will happen when he retires.

But here's the difference. 40 years later, an original Prophet 5 that originally went for $4k can now fetch between $6k-12k no problem. A brand new Prophet 5 (which has more features) can be had for $3.5k. Do you see where I'm going with that? Sequential instruments are an investment, are built to last for decades and can be serviced and repaired as needed. They are designed to be used as hardware instruments. Nobody is going to reverse engineer Virus Control software and fix it for Access, both because it would be a pain in the ass (not fun like restoring hardware) and also for copyright reasons.

Even though Dave Smith invented MIDI and was a pioneer in software synth plugins, he is not a big fan of software integration for the very reasons we are talking about here... he doesn't want to be running in circles trying to keep his shit working on another vendors' OS.. he has talked about this in depth in interviews. He wants to make musical instruments that are designed to be played, not be fiddled around with a mouse. Yes you can buy editors that help you do some things on the computer but they are meant to be PLAYED, and therein lies the difference.

I'm not saying everyone needs lots of analog polys. It depends on what kind of music you want to make.

It is definitely possible to make good music using only software. But if the analog sound is your thing, the really good soft-synths eat up half your CPU and still aren't in the same league. When you've got 4 or 5 rich sounding poly synths going in a mix, and you look at your CPU and its still sitting at 9% then it becomes clear... yeah software alone can't do that. I still use plug-ins for certain things like samples and FX...


Fair points and I get it but the whole reason I bought the TI in the first place is because I need DAW integration and wanted lower CPU with the virus sound.

I'm not sure why anyone would pay $4300 for the latest version of a very dated sounding prophet.

[MBTC]

Fair points and I get it but the whole reason I bought the TI in the first place is because I need DAW integration and wanted lower CPU with the virus sound.

I too was lured in by the integration aspect... but in retrospect the reason I thought I needed the integration was because of the horrible user interface most synths that were created over the last 25 years offered. Since then, synth makers have realized how important the experience of the knobs on the panel is, and the designs have gotten better. Basically they improved by working more like synths from the 1970's did :).... A good set of knobs is WAY superior to DAW integration.

Meanwhile, some vendors like Roland seem to be doing a better job with integration (albeit a different way via the plugout technology), but at the end of the day the Roland stuff is still digital and doesn't compete with Sequential IMO.

I'm not sure why anyone would pay $4300 for the latest version of a very dated sounding prophet.

Since $4,300 indicates you're referring to the Prophet 10, I think I can solve that riddle for ya :)....

1. A vintage Prophet 10 is about $15,000, while a new one is $4,300.... slight cost savings there
2. A new Prophet 10 comes with a warranty, and even outside the warranty Sequential's policy is to fix any future issue for flat fee of $25... they have the best customer service in the industry and its all made in USA
3. The original Prophet 10 had issues with stability due to overheating which are fully resolved with the newer unit
4. You're getting 10 voices of VCO polyphony... nearest competitor on full spec would be the Moog one with 8 voices for $6,500
5. Not only all of those voices, but you get a switch that toggles between the two filter types of the original Prophet Rev 1/2 or the Rev 3, something that vintage units cannot do! And remember, vintage units cost more
6. Dude! it's an authentic freaking Prophet!!! ..... a faithful recreation of what is probably the most important synthesizer in existence, all for about the same price as a well equipped iMac would cost.
7. As far as "dated" sound, vintage analog is very sought after because it sounds richer than the thin digital modern sound. But remember when you hear a Prophet 5/10 most people are demoing it without FX (because it doesn't have any built in). Most "modern" sound comes from digital FX, so if you want to modernize the digital tone you have to bring your own FX pedals or plugins.

This is just some of the reasons why there is an endless list of synthheads waiting for their backordered unit, and some of them I'm sure could very quickly chime in with a few dozen reasons of their own.

[Berni]

I too was lured in by the integration aspect... but in retrospect the reason I thought I needed the integration was because of the horrible user interface most synths that were created over the last 25 years offered. Since then, synth makers have realized how important the experience of the knobs on the panel is, and the designs have gotten better. Basically they improved by working more like synths from the 1970's did :).... A good set of knobs is WAY superior to DAW integration.

Meanwhile, some vendors like Roland seem to be doing a better job with integration (albeit a different way via the plugout technology), but at the end of the day the Roland stuff is still digital and doesn't compete with Sequential IMO.



Since $4,300 indicates you're referring to the Prophet 10, I think I can solve that riddle for ya :)....

1. A vintage Prophet 10 is about $15,000, while a new one is $4,300.... slight cost savings there
2. A new Prophet 10 comes with a warranty, and even outside the warranty Sequential's policy is to fix any future issue for flat fee of $25... they have the best customer service in the industry and its all made in USA
3. The original Prophet 10 had issues with stability due to overheating which are fully resolved with the newer unit
4. You're getting 10 voices of VCO polyphony... nearest competitor on full spec would be the Moog one with 8 voices for $6,500
5. Not only all of those voices, but you get a switch that toggles between the two filter types of the original Prophet Rev 1/2 or the Rev 3, something that vintage units cannot do! And remember, vintage units cost more
6. Dude! it's an authentic freaking Prophet!!! ..... a faithful recreation of what is probably the most important synthesizer in existence, all for about the same price as a well equipped iMac would cost.
7. As far as "dated" sound, vintage analog is very sought after because it sounds richer than the thin digital modern sound. But remember when you hear a Prophet 5/10 most people are demoing it without FX (because it doesn't have any built in). Most "modern" sound comes from digital FX, so if you want to modernize the digital tone you have to bring your own FX pedals or plugins.

This is just some of the reasons why there is an endless list of synthheads waiting for their backordered unit, and some of them I'm sure could very quickly chime in with a few dozen reasons of their own.


Hey whatever floats your boat I guess and I'm sure there are some synth heads out there with money to burn on this thing but I'm guessing they are of an older generation. The younger generation of music makers would probably have no interest in it whatsoever. Listening to the demo's is a yawn fest for me. Just my 2c.

[MBTC]

Hey whatever floats your boat I guess and I'm sure there are some synth heads out there with money to burn on this thing but I'm guessing they are of an older generation. The younger generation of music makers would probably have no interest in it whatsoever. Listening to the demo's is a yawn fest for me. Just my 2c.

There are a lot of people that buy these out of nostalgia but if you read Youtube comments under some of these synth reviews you'll see the younger generation lust after these as well. Under a certain age or level of accomplishment, they aren't able to afford the good stuff for the most part but this is why Behringer's cheap knockoffs of vintage gear are selling like hotcakes. Synthwave/retrowave etc. music is extremely popular among millennials, Gen-Ys etc. Vintage gear has made a huge comeback.

[Berni]

There are a lot of people that buy these out of nostalgia but if you read Youtube comments under some of these synth reviews you'll see the younger generation lust after these as well. Under a certain age or level of accomplishment, they aren't able to afford the good stuff for the most part but this is why Behringer's cheap knockoffs of vintage gear are selling like hotcakes. Synthwave/retrowave etc. music is extremely popular among millennials, Gen-Ys etc. Vintage gear has made a huge comeback.


As always MBTC you have turned my thread into talking about your synths...good night :roll:

[MBTC]

As always MBTC you have turned my thread into talking about your synths...good night :roll:

I don't own a Prophet 10 (yet) or Behringer gear, so how is the above talking about my synths?

I offered the response that answered your question early in the thread, you chose not to accept it.

You kept going with ancillary opinions, I only simply entertained your responses. As always, you weren't really looking for a valid answer, only a place to vent about Access. I like to find solutions to things, not accommodate whining. Once again, per the prior link, Access is not supporting Catalina or beyond officially, so you'll need to figure something else out. Bitching about it further will get you nowhere. Good luck.