Unfortunately it's been a while (long time actually) since I've heard a Supernova, so it's hard for me to compare actual sound. Instinctually I think the characteristics of the Ultranova remind me of the Supernova.
Supposedly the Ultranova's engine is not exactly the same as the Supernova II but architecturally similar and supposedly much more powerful. Some folks claim to notice a more digital sound out of the Ultranova.

I think some of the default sounds are kind of thin but with a little experimentation I was able to get things to my liking, although your mileage may vary. When playing a synth like this, I can't help being biased by the overall price, so if I have to tweak a little more to get the sound I want, the price makes that less painful. Whereas if I pay five times the price for a Virus I have very high expectations for even default sounds and if I have to get deep under the hood to make something sound good to my ears it tends to tick me off.

Well one thing to keep in mind is that around that point in the demo, he has only dialed up a single oscillator and detuned it. To start approaching something that sounds more like a thick supersaw, take what he did, set Unison x 4, then detune unison... But...wait, you still have two more free oscillators to use :) plus a noise osc. So bring those next two osc in, detune each to maybe +/- 7 and maybe put one on a different octave, etc., then add some reverb, delay etc and you're going to have a much different sound, something like a proper dreamtrance supersaw that way.

I'm not 100% sure if I can properly address this other than to say that in that demo he probably left the OscPhase param set to default which is 0 degrees. If you set it to "free" it removes that quality that I think you're talking about. The range is 0 to 357. It is one of those params that would is somewhat obscure and could be overlooked in many demos. You need to hit the Oscillator button, and use Next to get to the screen. I duplicated what the guy in the video did with one Osc, and set it to free and the initial click disappeared. Hope that helps?

Oh, no I didn't :) Please read what I wrote again, I was afraid I was giving that impression and opening myself up a can of worms. I was just describing an overall initial impression of a couple of weeks I spent working with the Ti2. For all I know I may not have had something configured properly. It was just a comment about the out of box experience. The Virus started giving up the ghost on polyphony in rediculous places like Roland D50-ish bell sounds, which (again at the price point) left me disappointed.

Again I will refer to comment above and previous post, but one thing I noticed about the Ti2 is that it seemed every little thing I did seemed to affect "patch complexity", which was indicated by a small meter on the display. Once you introduce any level of complexity, it started robbing notes out of the patch left and right. I may be sticking my neck out here for the chopping block here, because I do not have specs available, but I honestly feel that the DSP in the Ultranova is roughly on a par, if not faster than that in the Ti2, based on very subjective and non-scientific evaluation that took place several years apart :) Not sure how to say it any more wishy washy than that... hehe

Agreed, that could be an issue for some folks, it was considered prior to my purchase and is not an issue for my particular needs.

Yes, one thing about the LFO sequence-type waveforms, I can't see that those are editable. I know most hardware probably wouldn't have them at all, but if you're used to working with softsynths like Zebra where you can literally implement any sort of modulation you could possibly draw with a mouse, the limitations of hardware are stifling to say the least, and I'm still unconvinced there is any real sound benefit to a hardware VA synth vs a good quality softsynth.

Yep, they are awesome.

Definitely. One reason I got this synth is to sort of dabble with "well integrated" hardware, to stick my foot back in the hardware synth water and decide how much of a financial commitment I want to make toward it. I've been somewhat spoiled with the ultra smooth workflow of softsynths, not having cables everywhere, not having to jump through hoops to get midi clocks sync'ed up and volume levels right and so forth. I think these synths are a phenomenal value. May or may not be for everyone's needs but it is certainly scratching the itch I bought it to scratch.

This thread cooled off a little, but I would like to encourage any questions from anybody, because it motivates me to get under the hood and learn specific things faster. The manual for this thing is actually quite good and the synth parameters are surprisingly deep and varied.

A few more observations since my last post while reading about the Ultranova elsewhere:

1. Much of the (legitimate) negative feedback I've heard from folks who have tried this synth relates to lack of multi-timbrality. I can understand why this preludes using it as the only synth in one's arsenal; however, often on multi-timbral synths, using a single complex sound uses so many resources that using additional sounds results in such a polyphony reduction that it defeats the purpose. So, I say at the given price point, someone could always buy 5 of these things, keep two and a half band-members hands busy, and across them play 90 notes of 5 different complex patches and still have spent less than a Virus Ti2 keyboard. That's a silly scenario but it puts the value proposition in perspective.

2. Some of the demos I've seen on youtube have been "low-end limited" by the 37 keys. Typically when I hear a synth being played in a manner that I can be sure it's going to meet my needs, it is done with 2 hands that are 3 to 4 octaves away from each other. Without enough physical keys to do that, I think most of the demos I've seen are playing at higher octaves, thus result in a thinner sound. So there may be a kind artificial drawback there, that leads to a real drawback (see #3)

3. There appears to be very little aftermarket sound packs available for this synth. I can see a few potential reason for that... a sound designer probably wants a larger controller, which can be done but at the expense of being farther away from the knobs that provide the immediate interface and take advantage of the UN like the touch knobs, etc. So, much of the sound design would probably require lots of hands on with the plug-in. I've had pretty good luck with the VST but I've read from guys who did not have as much luck with other forms of the plugin, at least in the early days. I saw a post from Rob Lee, who is a very good sound designer, asking Novation to contact him about writing a sound pack for the Ultranova (I don't know what ever came of it except there is no Rob Lee sound pack for the UN that I know of). Why is this? Novation's handling of things or interaction with the community? I don't know, but there may be a combination of issues that resulted in not much aftermarket sounds being available for this synth. Good news is it is very easy to program yourself, bad news is the presets do not showcase the synth and there's not much available that will. It becomes a very DIY synth, which I think is fun but others may not.

4. The modulation is really good. But things like preset arp patterns are irritatingly limiting to me (to some extent the very editable gator effect could be used for this I think).

5. Price always seems to be listed in the $700+ range. I picked this one up for $600 out the door via Amazon, perhaps because its been out a couple of years (too bad Virus rarely drops in price)... and the Mininova can be had for even less. At those prices we're approaching the cost of the better softsynths but getting much so much more for the money.

For convenience, I rounded up some of the review links I came across, posting for posterity here. The synthtopia one has a good look around the plugin... Interesting quote from keyboard mag "Given what the present UltraNova does with just one part, though, I might go so far as to call it the deepest implementation of the virtual analog paradigm next to Arturia’s Origin—which lists for $3,200. This makes the UltraNova one of the most outstanding synth values you can buy":

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/20...hesizer-review

http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/N...UltraNova/4414

http://www.emusician.com/gear/0769/n...-review/140117

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb1...-ultranova.htm

http://www.tonylongmusic.co.uk/keybo...supernova-gaia

http://www.groovypost.com/reviews/no...tranova-review

http://www.junodownload.com/plus/201...tranova-review

http://www.residentadvisor.net/review-view.aspx?id=8544

Nice selection of varied reviews there! I really wonder why Novation jumped in really no time at all and implimented a mini-me version with indeed twinkle-toe keys rather than offering a 61 key version of the UN?
Wouldn't it be an awesome thing for a company to make such a synth that to expand all you had to do was buy another, then remove an end-cap of each and connect the two for a 74 key, then-biTimberal synth?
I read some things on gearslutz where people actually found the computer integration/editor/vst part of UN to work best actually using the UN as the actual audio interface AND the Automap seemed to be pretty important for that to work well. They also said in that same thread that the UN is really USB-hungry in that when using UN as the interface via USB, it used most of the available bandwidth and to avoid problems, they actually were successful in using an A/C powered USB hub. (I forgot to save that gearslutz.com thread in faves). Read people really liked the action of the keys as well.;)

About the Mini, I think almost all aspects are the same except lacks built in audio interface and of course is smaller and costs less. There are some aspects of the knobs and buttons I actually like better on the Mini, but I don't do well with small keys so I needed an Ultra.

Currently, I'm not using the interface in the UN, I run the audio to the Saffire Pro 24 (which is firewire) and a MIDI cable, but the UN is plugged into USB because the plugin needs it. That's one reason its not a fair comparison against the Virus with VC, because at that time (my brief stint with a virus) I was trying to do everything over USB, and its hard to tell how many of my problems were a result of that. Only drawback I can find to the current setup is one of MIDI sync, that changing the tempo in the DAW sometimes seems to take and other times I have to hit play to get it to send the new tempo to the UN (could be the software or just the way things are in the hardware world). That's not something I do every 10 seconds though.

I used to use Automap fairly frequenly with my 49 key controller, but over time I found myself using it less because of the load time it added to each plugin. The new PC does not yet have Automap on it so I have not tried that aspect. I haven't even really used the top row of buttons (right under the knobs) because they are apparently all designed for use with Automap. I guess the idea there is that for folks using the UN as their primary controller, it would be silly not to be able to use Automap like every other controller Novation makes so it was a must-have for some. I probably will not use the UN as my primary controller only due to # of keys, but the laptop-producers on the go will probably love that feature of it.

About the key-action, I think it's about what I want in a synth -- light (as opposed to weighted) for fast or percussive playing (as opposed for the piano feel). Some equate light with cheap but I think quality-wise it feels like Novations other controllers (good for what I do) and things like aftertouch feel right to me.

It's one of those synths that does some things well and other things not.

Sounds it does well: Edgy, punchy, gritty, screamy sounds, trance/hardstyle, dub filth etc. plucks, stabs, etc are good! Basses are good! Formant-vocaly sounding stuff is good and you sometimes stumble on extremely interesting stuff just by playing with moduling things like sync, detune. You can also modulate the waveform index (changing the fundamental sound type of the osc), slew the LFOs and other "interesting" things.

Sounds I would NOT use it for: 80's retro, true analog warmth, bread and butter, mega-layered texture sounds. You can achieve layers and textures by getting creative with modulation it but I don't think its the strength.

As some of those reviews said, one thing that's nice is you can make a single osc sound pretty fat then modulate a different osc with a completely different waveform to get a sound that would be like a multi in another synth, yet it seems to almost offer up the same polyphony no matter how complex you make things. Inside a DAW you could also just layer it with a softsynth or whatever to get whatever multi effect you want, but some folks are used to having that right on the board.

Here is an interesting post I saw on KVR....

The guy who says "I have the Virus TI2 Polar and x2 Ultra Novas.. i bought another Ultra Nova just for more parts as i love the sound. I wish Novation had made the Ultra Nova 4 part or more cause the sound appeals more to me than my Virus. The Virus is a great sound but the Ultra Nova's get more use. I hope Novation considers producing a new Synth with more parts/polyphonic in future." is none other than Rob Lee, who I would say is one of the better sound designers for EDM type sounds out there at the moment (or at least the type of sounds I aim for).

If you're not familiar with his sound sets, you can hear them at this link. I guess if you don't like his sounds, you may not agree with him about the Ultranova sound :)
http://www.roblee-music.com

Maybe I'll contact him to see why he doesn't make a sound pack for the UN. I read somewhere something about editing large numbers of sounds on it is a bit of a hassle even with the librarian, so maybe that's it. Also I know he was trying to contact Novation about doing one and was having trouble getting in touch with them, so maybe he's built up enough of a reputation that he can hold out for the big bucks :)... Given his talent and the lack of sound packs available for this synth, I'd think that would be a killer opportunity for him.

I also found it weird that Adam Van Baker owns a Virus but claims it doesn't get as much actual use in his music as Zebra and Massive. He even wrote a Jupiter 8000 inspired plugin but has never down a soundset for the Virus to my knowledge? Weird.

Namnibor asked in another thread for an update, so I thought I'd post here:

I've finally downloaded the free sounsets for the Ultranova and went through them. Most of the sounds therein aren't particularly impressive, although there are some neat emulations of Supertramp, The Who, and the intro to Fly Like An Eagle (Steve Miller Band) that really show what a good sound designer Daniel Fisher is, or maybe how versatile the Ultranova can be. For a lot of people the lack of third party sounds available for this synth could be a real drawback. Its a good synth for sound designers and folks that like to come up with their own stuff, but sometimes it's nice to have a large library of starting points for any given genre. My main motivation for getting it is to see how well I can get accustomed to a hardware+software environment after having been so spoiled by the fantastic workflow of software-only. Even doing things like sysex import/exports introduce what seems like a weird workflow interruption after not having dealt with it in years. But I'm still very pleased with the purchase... some of the Daniel Fisher sounds show that the touch knobs should not be neglected when creating new sounds, as that's one of the things that makes the Nova synths unique. It also adds a greater expectation for the sound designer I think -- i.e. do something useful with the touch knobs for each sound. That could be intimidating for some designers with regard to how much extra work should be invested into perfecting each sound. The good news is that if you're the type that likes to create sounds from scratch, there's tons of fun to be had with all the modulation possibilities (and realistically you don't always really have to start from scratch, you can always start with one of the built in sounds as a starting point).

Nice! Yes, I have often used an existing sound from a rom bank on Virus KC as a starting point but what's so nice on KC is with any given preset or your own sound, all the LED's make it easier to see how a sound was made and deconstruct it. Perhaps you should task yourself to make an outstanding sound bank or two for the ultra nova and then sell them since you say there's not much out there and ca$h-in?:D

That thought crossed my mind, although right now I'd be happy just to find the free time to learn the beast very thoroughly, and it probably sounds more enviable than it really is but I need free time more than I need more money. Also it would be hard for me to sit down and create a bank of something like 50-60 sounds. I'd get too distracted with each individual one, and the next thing I know I will have spent the bulk of the time trying to build a track around a single sound and tweaking the sound to fit that mix rather that creating lots of good sounds.

Focus, Focus, Focus!!!:rolleyes: I know what you mean because when I sit down with DSI Mono Evolver Keyboard, it's as if I create a wormhole, space/time distortion and have to force myself to get-up to drink water let alone lavatory breaks! What is that Ultravox song, "And Time Stood Still"?

Hey! I thought of you right away when firstly opening an email from Novation today (I own a Supernova 1 Rack), and this link I am posting will take you to the first of two FREE SOUNDPACKS for both Ultra/MiniNOVA and they are actual patches from the pretty awesome still IMO, of the mighty SUPERNOVA!!! You had mentioned the lack of soundpacks and Novation seem to be in full gear...http://us.novationmusic.com/soundpacks

I think to get the second free soundpack all you have to do is LIKE them on Facebook. Marketing, you know but hope this works for you!
Lastly, I recently read that on the UltraNova, you can save with each patch rather than Globally, your expression pedal midi cc modulation assignment. I think we can do this on all strains of the Virus as well but I think it was on homerecording.com where someone's problem was answered in regard to this because that person *assumed* their expression pedal settings would carry over from one patch to another and in case you did not know, thought to toss that in the "care package of a message here":-P I am pretty sure they said you can set the max/min amount/values of travel of the pedal as well rather than just a 1-127 general value!!
Cheers!