Hey mates,

just saw this and thought it might help illustrate some of the points in here:

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/our-favo...rce=noiseyfbus

cheers

Once again, for perhaps the third time, I used a particular band -- three actually actually, to illustrate a couple of bands from times gone by that have produced a ridiculously high quantity of successful hits.

It pains me that you have yet to grasp that it has nothing to do with whether you like the band in question.

Give me an example of a recent band that has achieved anywhere near the total number of hit singles that Fleetwood Mac, The Eagles or Tom Petty and the Heartbreaker have achieved in their career?

It doesn't matter if I like the band or not, I am looking for quantifiable industry success here. True to the point, I am not interested in whether or not *I PERSONALLY* like the band or not, I am looking for tangible evidence of musical talent and success (something that goes far beyond an underground following and a handful of successful singles).

Until that's done, nobody has come to this argument prepared.

Do you mean it helps illustrate some of the points from my position on the argument or yours? I actually think it helps my argument in several different ways. Perhaps most interesting was the mention of Taylor Swift's success -- because while I'm personally not a fan of hers, I think in the genre she works in she does have a way-above-average level of talent. The fact that so many of the rest are flipping burgers or whatever instead of focusing on music full-time is a strong indicator of my earlier point about how much the music industry itself has changed.

Taylor is one of those who may actually achieve the level of industry success in her lifetime that approaches the others I've mentioned. I don't follow country or mainstream pop, so it's very possible that there are others like her that I'm unaware of. Even still, I don't care for her music, I'm just mentioning that to help drive home my point that what I've said her has absolutely nothing to do with my own personal taste or preference for a particular artist. It is an observation about the music industry as a whole.

In a few more years no doubt Calvin Harris will have had more hits then them if he doesn't retire. Like his music or not. Not enough time has past on new producers artists to compare them.

One could then say how many hits has Max Martin or Dr Luck had. Bands, sorry ACTS are worked a lot different from those of yesta year. Producers seem more interested in giving someone fresh their 5 seconds of fame over dragging out acts over and over.

You have a good point in your second paragraph, although I'm not sure if it's only due to the choice of producers that results in the 5 seconds of fame syndrome or the ADHD nature of the modern listening audience that always wants something new or a gimmick to grab their attention.

I had to look up Calvin Harris to even know who he was. I've never heard of him or his music here in the US, maybe he's hugely popular elsewhere. What little I was able to tolerate listening to just sounded like the typical pop crap that could be the poster child for the type of music I'm talking about. That's not to say fans of his should like him any less, it's just very hard to picture him appearing in a list like this, even if he's given a 50 year trial period to attempt it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

Maybe I just listened to the wrong tunes of his. I just couldn't stand his singing style in the mixes I listened too. That type of Justin Bieber sounding stuff pains my eardrum.

Sorry i'll edit that back, i didn't like how it was worded so changed it but you've quoted me now, lol.

As for Calvin Harris he has the record for the most successful singles off 1 album, ever.

I'll go on to add, if you hadn't even heard of him it kind of suggest you are actually suffering from old mans syndrome bringing up this debate. Rather than the actual point you are trying to mask it behind.

In 20 years from now the kids who grew up listening to Calvin Harris and had no interest in FWM arn't suddenly going to erase all their memories of the music they grew up with. It is that that will hold a place in their heart and have that uniqueness too not FWM. I am like you using FWM and Calvin as example to the point not actualities.

As for the Armin comment you made, then through away by mentioning how FWM could easily sit down and play any acoustic. WHO CARES about Acoustic ability. Give members of FWM an empty Virus, you think they'd be able to come up with the unique sounds that has graced our EDM scenes. There's hundreds, millions even of people who can sit and play. Playing ability means shit in the real world, it's the producers and the engineers who make them sound good.

Leave some of the best known bands in a studio with no hardcore engineer who'll sit their for hours crafting their sound and they will basically sound like shit.

Being a VIRUS forum i'm surprised to hear what you said.

You also need to factor in competition. A band of then had less competition, labels even bought up acts to bench them. Nowadays you can get yourself heard much easier so the 1 great band doesn't get to stand out for as long. People only have so much time to spread out across the different artist, labels had control then, now they don't.

You also mention their other songs that are just as good as hits, to you yes but if they weren't hits, they aren't hits. I have many underground artist I love who make songs that might be far superior to their actual hits but that is just my taste. If another sound wasn't mainstream at that time the song might of been a hit, which brings me back to the competition point i started with.

As for those lists, best selling albums, LOL! people don't buy albums any more, people stream music. Those lists will fade out into the past.

One could come to that conclusion if they are trying hard to.

I believe understand the point you are trying to make. Even the kiddies of today probably have trouble imagining an era where people spend a months salary on a home stereo system to play vinyl. The kiddies of today have absolutely no mental concept of purchasing quality handmade shoes. They have grown up in an era where everything is mass produced cheaply and badly in China, just like most of the music they listen to is produced cheaply and badly. I do agree with your point here and would like to thank you for further validating my position.

No I clearly pointed out Armin is only a DJ and not in the same league as some of the musicians who have stood the test of time. Sorry you missed it.

Well this brings up a couple of other points. Do yourself a favor and watch a movie called "Sound City", about a specific music studio where so many of the albums that are considered some of the greatest music of all time were recorded. It's quite interesting even if you are unable to see how it helps support some of the ideas I've brought forth here.

I did say a couple of points. The second point is that Lindsey Buckingham was not only an amazing guitarist (decent but perhaps not great singer), but also a genius producer/mixer. He was both the musician and the master engineer, one of the reasons why Fleetwood Mac still sells albums and commands top dollar for tickets for sold out shows while the teeny bopper bubble gum pop stars command a fraction of the ticket value and can only pray that their career actually lasts as long.

So, how can anyone compare these modern artists with someone like Buckingham who not only directly contributed to the "engineering" aspect of Fleetwood Mac's success, but also played and wrote many of the tunes? How many of these producers that you feel are solely responsible for "good" sound can just walk out on a stage with a guitar and do this?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdd_fv0xrSo

Actually I think in terms of electronic music, one of the great pivotal eras was right around the time the Virus hit the market. It put powerful VA in the hands of true synth gear heads, and it would be many years before cheaper and more easily available softsynths would fall into the hands of the masses, resulting in a flood of horrible electronic music. So in that sense it's quite an appropriate discussion for a Virus forum I think, even if most of my points are being embarrassingly overlooked.

Also I never really meant to focus on Lindsey Buckingham specifically, but he was a god of music production back when the equipment to produce a good record was a thousand times more difficult to learn and use. These days we are spoiled by computers that do about 90% of the heavy lifting for us.

Bringing up how important a producer is to the overall quality of a track was a seriously poor choice when trying to compare modern artists to someone like Fleetwood Mac. Not only was Buckingham 1000x the producer most of the noobs that let the computer do the work for them are, but he can play his stuff live and sound good without falling back on "it's the producer's job to make me sound good" excuse.