Originally Posted by MBTC (Post 307320)

I've been integrating synths with computers since the mid 80's and I cannot remember a time I got what I wanted :) It's usually quite a grind to get everything working properly.

When I refer to MIDI over USB, I don't mean just a MIDI cable I mean that some folks are successfully running the software as a librarian and to edit the sound. Seriously, I urge you to do some reading on this. I don't know why its working for some not for others but I know you won't get anywhere with it if you limit your understanding to what is posted in this forum.

Go to the source of information, try to figure out what the differences are. Otherwise consider the alternatives I posted. Apple+Access Music = No Future.

https://www.virus.info/forum/index.p...ility-warning/

That's about the best I can do, sorry

Originally Posted by Berni (Post 307321)

Been at this quite a while now myself and I can tell you nobody has got VC or the plug-in working on a mac with Big Sur. Just trying to boot up VC you will get the following error message. "The developer of this app needs to update it to work with this version of macOS. Contact the developer for more information." So yeah, pretty much dead in the water...don't believe everything you read on forums.

Originally Posted by MBTC (Post 307323)

I guess between that conclusion and Access' official word, there's your answer....so what's next then? Move to Windows? Sell the Virus? Change workflow to use audio outs only? Let us know what you decide.

Originally Posted by Berni (Post 307324)

Moving to windows is definitely not an option and selling the virus would leave a big hole in my rack so going to keep hold of it. TBH I don't really use it that often anymore as I'm pretty much software instruments all the way these days. In fact it's the only hardware synth I own now. Software is sooo much cheaper, reliable and updated regularly. Who needs the headache's that come with hardware when the software sounds just as good nowadays anyhoo.
Every time a new shiny hardware synth comes on the market that takes my eye. I only have to look at the virus to remind me of how much of a waste of time and money they are.

Originally Posted by MBTC (Post 307325)

For a long time I believed the same thing, because I purged my life of hardware for many years. My lifestyle had me moving often, so maintaining a studio with outboard gear made no sense. Eventually I tried to add a TI2 desktop and the USB frustrations had me send it back. Many years later bought a used Snow, and at the price point was willing to live with some tradeoffs such as using VC and USB for the non-audio functions. And even then I had the same conclusion that you did, that software had gotten good enough that the Virus was barely worth messing with.

But then I started buying Sequential synths.. they sound so much better than software or the Virus. I barely use soft synths at all now because I can't stand the sound of them next to the real thing. Software and even virtual analog sounds dull, lifeless, etc.

Point is, don't judge the state of hardware synths based on the Virus, because it does not represent what's available anymore.

Originally Posted by Berni (Post 307326)

Oh I dare say they do with there hefty price tag they should be something else. There has been no new feature updates for the virus in years or hardware updates for that matter but who's to say Sequential might go down like access have? If a software synth stops getting supported then no big financial loss but when hardware loses support you are left with a very useless box of knobs that has cost you thousands of dollars.

Originally Posted by MBTC (Post 307327)

They are expensive synths to be sure, but you get what you pay for in terms of sound quality.

The original Sequential Circuits already went out of business once... digital synths came along and nobody wanted crappy old analog anymore (lol! but seriously the DX7 and the inexpensive digital synth invasion was part of what killed it). Dave Smith just turned 70, and who knows how long he wants to continue or what will happen when he retires.

But here's the difference. 40 years later, an original Prophet 5 that originally went for $4k can now fetch between $6k-12k no problem. A brand new Prophet 5 (which has more features) can be had for $3.5k. Do you see where I'm going with that? Sequential instruments are an investment, are built to last for decades and can be serviced and repaired as needed. They are designed to be used as hardware instruments. Nobody is going to reverse engineer Virus Control software and fix it for Access, both because it would be a pain in the ass (not fun like restoring hardware) and also for copyright reasons.

Even though Dave Smith invented MIDI and was a pioneer in software synth plugins, he is not a big fan of software integration for the very reasons we are talking about here... he doesn't want to be running in circles trying to keep his shit working on another vendors' OS.. he has talked about this in depth in interviews. He wants to make musical instruments that are designed to be played, not be fiddled around with a mouse. Yes you can buy editors that help you do some things on the computer but they are meant to be PLAYED, and therein lies the difference.

I'm not saying everyone needs lots of analog polys. It depends on what kind of music you want to make.

It is definitely possible to make good music using only software. But if the analog sound is your thing, the really good soft-synths eat up half your CPU and still aren't in the same league. When you've got 4 or 5 rich sounding poly synths going in a mix, and you look at your CPU and its still sitting at 9% then it becomes clear... yeah software alone can't do that. I still use plug-ins for certain things like samples and FX...

Originally Posted by Berni (Post 307328)

Fair points and I get it but the whole reason I bought the TI in the first place is because I need DAW integration and wanted lower CPU with the virus sound.

Originally Posted by Berni (Post 307328)

I'm not sure why anyone would pay $4300 for the latest version of a very dated sounding prophet.

Originally Posted by MBTC (Post 307329)

I too was lured in by the integration aspect... but in retrospect the reason I thought I needed the integration was because of the horrible user interface most synths that were created over the last 25 years offered. Since then, synth makers have realized how important the experience of the knobs on the panel is, and the designs have gotten better. Basically they improved by working more like synths from the 1970's did :).... A good set of knobs is WAY superior to DAW integration.

Meanwhile, some vendors like Roland seem to be doing a better job with integration (albeit a different way via the plugout technology), but at the end of the day the Roland stuff is still digital and doesn't compete with Sequential IMO.



Since $4,300 indicates you're referring to the Prophet 10, I think I can solve that riddle for ya :)....

1. A vintage Prophet 10 is about $15,000, while a new one is $4,300.... slight cost savings there
2. A new Prophet 10 comes with a warranty, and even outside the warranty Sequential's policy is to fix any future issue for flat fee of $25... they have the best customer service in the industry and its all made in USA
3. The original Prophet 10 had issues with stability due to overheating which are fully resolved with the newer unit
4. You're getting 10 voices of VCO polyphony... nearest competitor on full spec would be the Moog one with 8 voices for $6,500
5. Not only all of those voices, but you get a switch that toggles between the two filter types of the original Prophet Rev 1/2 or the Rev 3, something that vintage units cannot do! And remember, vintage units cost more
6. Dude! it's an authentic freaking Prophet!!! ..... a faithful recreation of what is probably the most important synthesizer in existence, all for about the same price as a well equipped iMac would cost.
7. As far as "dated" sound, vintage analog is very sought after because it sounds richer than the thin digital modern sound. But remember when you hear a Prophet 5/10 most people are demoing it without FX (because it doesn't have any built in). Most "modern" sound comes from digital FX, so if you want to modernize the digital tone you have to bring your own FX pedals or plugins.

This is just some of the reasons why there is an endless list of synthheads waiting for their backordered unit, and some of them I'm sure could very quickly chime in with a few dozen reasons of their own.

Originally Posted by Berni (Post 307330)

Hey whatever floats your boat I guess and I'm sure there are some synth heads out there with money to burn on this thing but I'm guessing they are of an older generation. The younger generation of music makers would probably have no interest in it whatsoever. Listening to the demo's is a yawn fest for me. Just my 2c.