Problem with Virus Ti control and Sync my arp with Cubase ..
 

Hello, :D
my arp is not synchronized with Cubase sx 3....!!
In the Virus control my arpeggio the output is USB 1 L+R and the arp is ok and is synchronized with Cubase !
but if change the output with OUTPUT 1 L+R the arp is not synchronized!!:(
in the normal mode is ok but with the Virus control vst no!

because?

Re: Problem with Virus Ti control and Sync my arp with Cubas
 

Because the Out1L+R is still being delay compensated along with the rest of the TI, which puts it ahead of the beat. Best switch it back to usb outs.

thanks Ben........grazie :D

Re: Problem with Virus Ti control and Sync my arp with Cubas
 

Hey Ben, given that this happens to everybody and the fact that having analog outs ahead of the beat is kind of pointless, would it be fair to ask for the Access programmers to include an option to keep the analog outs uncompensated in VC mode? It is possible to add a delay outside of the Virus, as I do, but calculating the exact amount every-time, as it often changes, is quite tedious.

Precisely, surely we shouldn't have to chose between sound quality or timing... not on a ?1,500 synth!


Drammy

the USB out do not sound any different to the build in analog outs as long as you use a decent soundcard. just the fact that we use high quality D/A converters in the TI doesn't mean that you have to blame the TI for your soundcard to make a difference in sound.

as for the analog outs and the delay in relation to the USB outs we are aware that it is not an ideal situation. see, the delay in being introduced by the latency of the soundcard, which the virus control cannot compensate. the soundcard publishes it's delay to the sequencer host, but the virus control cannot request this information. there is an easy workaround though: delay all tracks using the analog outs by a certain amount which you need to try out. here right now, it's about 40ms (with the soundcard i'm using). the delay will not change until you, for instance, change the buffer size of the soundcard.

hope that helps,

marc

can anyone help do what marc is talking about in cubase? how do i find out the delay on my soundcard, and where do i assign the amount to delay all tracks using the analog outs?

I think Drammy was referring to the USB being poor quality ie 16bit and the analog outs being high quality but out of time ie in front of the beat 40ms. Get it. In fact most of us here with pro soundcards prefer the analog outs of the ti to the USB, don't try and sell us the 16bit sales stuff.

marc means to add 40ms or so the the sound from the analog outputs of the TI. I do it inside Cubase with Voxengo Delay on the input channels if I have routed the TI analog outputs to 'preview' inside Cubase on an audio track. OR you can add delay using a dsp mixer like inside Creamware Scope if you are mixing inside there and not in Cubase.
My beef is having to have to do all this and calculate the exact delay to make it all in time, exactly. Total Integration guys, keep working on it, listen to us. We want effortless production, smarter tools. Get smarter.

i hope i understand this correctly..

So this is due to the soundcard and the ti being separate soundcards with different buffers in cubase?

So if i was to use the ti for both synth and asio sound (as i intend to do) it would not be an issue?

And doesn't this 40 ms delay workaround result in an extremely sluggish performance when playing the ti live?

i hope i understand this correctly..

So this is due to the soundcard and the ti being separate soundcards with different buffers in cubase?

So if i was to use the ti for both synth and asio sound (as i intend to do) it would not be an issue?

And doesn't this 40 ms delay workaround result in an extremely sluggish performance when playing the ti live?

Totally agree with GRS.

Exactly...

I use an RME HDSP 9632.

Marc, are you telling me that if I take Analog out from the Virus TI into my RME and then use the Analog outs of the RME into my monitors, I will get the same quality of audio as I would if I took USB out from my TI into the PC and then out intot he monitors via the Analog outs on my RME?

I think you'll find this is not the case.

no, using USB without putting the signal though an D/A converter, preamp it and A/D convert it will certainly change the sound not to the better (at least not in my ears).

i was under the impression that drammy refered to the analog outs as "poor". in any case i will leave this type of discussion to you guys. i can help you setting up your systems and fix problems but i'm not prepared to participate in the rest.
best, marc

I never stated that the Analog outs were poor, absolutely not. They are good, that is why I would like to be able to use them coming into my RME, rather than the USB.

Back to the original question - is it possible to turn off the auto compensation on just the Virus - this should enable us to achieve what we would like.

Marc, I have been a keen Access customer for many years and am certainly not slating your product, I love it. I am meerly asking if you can consider making this possible, which in turn is helping us set-up our system...

Drammy

"
Back to the original question - is it possible to turn off the auto compensation on just the Virus - this should enable us to achieve what we would like."

no, you can't turn it off just for the channels which use the virus TI analog outs. but we are very aware of the problems and limitations this causes and we're working on a solution.

so what do you mean with "surely we shouldn't have to chose between sound quality or timing...". is the quality of the signal coming out of the Virus Control using USB poor in any way?

marc

>is the quality of the signal coming out of the Virus Control using USB poor in any way?<

... :x

isn't it obvious?

not to me. please explain

marc

okay: 16bits

dr. orange: Before processing, could you really distinguish a 24bits audio track from a 16bits?

i assume that you did receive your TI by now. make a simple test: use the virus as your audio interface and play a patch through the virus control. this way you send the signal by USB to your PC and back again. next you switch this part to the analog outs and compare the sound.do you hear a difference?.

best, marc

is the best Analog outs......

Hello marc,
no, I didn't receive it yet. And to be honest, I'd be surprised when I would receive it anytime in february. I'm waiting since Nov 17th.

Hmm, and to the 16 bits. Do you hear any difference between 16bit Audio and 24 bit Audio? admittedly it's very slight, but you can hear it in a proper environment... And recording a professional studio equipment in 16 bits is like a ferrari with ordinary tires... You probably don't hear the dirrerence in the first moment, but after some postprocessing the difference is obvious. But marc, you are from a professional audio company, do I have to tell you that?

exactly. when you mix there is a huge difference inbetween 16 and 24 bit. because you need dynamics when you mix. this is post processing to me.
but when you record, especially instruments which are usually recorded hot and do not have a very dynamic output (in reality) it doesn't matter really.
we have very much considered the consequences of sending a 16 bit signal using USB and we are extremely happy with this decision.

the resolution, the virus's sound engine can calculate in is 56bit. but this doesn't mean that you need to use a 56bit d/a converter in order to get a high-detail sound experience.

best, marc

just to avoid confusion: this whole thread is about the _internal_ communication in between the Virus TI hardware and the Virus Control plug-in. you can use the TI in, for example, a 24bit/96k project without problems.

marc

Hey I recieved mine. This is not a guessing game. Just simple audio technology understanding.
The simple test should include a long release on the envelope or a long reverb tail followed by a external (vst/dx) compressor, some eq etc. This should lead most people to the easy answer that the analog outputs sound best. I can supply a simple A/B file demonstration for those how have no clue as to what the quiet part of 16bit sounds like.

Marc, even in a 24bit/96k project the virus TI Control plug-in the signal has the resolution of 16bit, it was sent as 16bit / 48k or 16bit / 44k and then interpolated to the project resolution. It still only holds 16bits of loudness information and can still be exposed.

Hey I recieved mine. This is not a guessing game. Just simple audio technology understanding.
The simple test should include a long release on the envelope or a long reverb tail followed by a external (vst/dx) compressor, some eq etc. This should lead most people to the easy answer that the analog outputs sound best. I can supply a simple A/B file demonstration for those how have no clue as to what the quiet part of 16bit sounds like.

Marc, even in a 24bit/96k project the virus TI Control plug-in the signal has the resolution of 16bit, it was sent as 16bit / 48k or 16bit / 44k and then interpolated to the project resolution. It still only holds 16bits of loudness information and can still be exposed.

As marc say - you cant switch it on/off on a per channel basis through a single plugin. Depending upon your DAW, you may be able to switch it off globally for the VC plugin (and then allways use the analog outs).

If Cubase SX, then "Devices -> Plugin information", find the TI and uncheck use delay compensation. This will make the USB channel more or less useless for anything but pads and you will then have to remember to switch all the part outs the analog. You will also have to force a reload of VC for this to work after changing it (as Cubase only reads the compenation value at plugin load time).

For sure you can, 24bit has more dynamic range and can push out a fatter louder signal without distortion! I-e a 16bit sample sound-sample will sound like (l l l l l l l) where as a 24bit will sound like (llllllllllllll) difference is a thin sound-sample as to compare to a thick sound.

I know lets go back to 8bit aye :?

8bit=( l l l l l l l l ) 16bit=( l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l) 24bit=(llllllllllllllllllllllll)