Let's play a game

[Juho L]

I got an idea from that "People forgetting the human" thread.

For the rest of the December, everyone forgets all tech babble and instead focuses on conrete and essential parts of music and production, like composing, mixing/mastering, playing and listening. All of you who can't play well (or at all), practise playing. Learn to read score. Learn chrods and chord theory. Widen your taste of music by listening to some totally different music you usually listen to. Try to compose/produce something different for a change. Share thoughts on composing, production, music. Etc, etc.

If everyone starts to play that game, we have a bit (a hell of a lot actually) higher level of musicanship on the forum at the beginning of 2005.

To keep a track on the progress everyone could post their own list of achievements for December and the update the list until the end of 2004.

Originally Posted by This is an example

December 8th - Listened to some Bulgarian traditional music and ska. Didn't actually like the Bulgarian music, but some ska tracks worked pretty well. I also practised Weather Report's Birdland and ELP Hoedown for about an hour.

December 10th - Did some vocal practises today. Sung through few songs. Also practised Czerny exercises for half an hour.

Like that. Now everybody stop talking about aliasing and start doing something useful. Hoho.

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

Juho this is a great idea for a new thread. I totally agree with the need to learn theory....but what you said about listening to a wider variety of music really touched my heart. I would like to suggest some classic early Genesis followed by some nice B-Side OMD...and then washed down with some future pop ala PSB...and perhaps to conclude with some Cyndi Lauper. Hmmm Girls do want to have fun.....

Good idea Juho...lets make this thread work!

DS

[Wandering Kid]

i already know of things that i can do to brush up. theres ALWAYS something i could improve on.

1) learn to sight read faster. currently im shit at sight reading.

2) finally learn how to make chords diminished. i know minors/majors/sus2s/sus4s/5ths/6ths/7ths/11ths but for some reason, i dunno how to diminish a chord. dunno how to make adds either now that i think of it. if i find out, ill whack it on a list with the others and post it here cuz EVERYONE will benefit from knowing how to make chords rather than use chord libraries (one of the greatest sins of the lay musician!).

3) spend the next 4 weeks listening to EBM and electro, maybe a bit of jazz. im beginning to feel jazz again. time for some pat metheny i think. to get out of this tarnce rut im in.

4) more practical lessons for those who dont know what i mean, a practical session is basically a night out clubbing or any kind of music event. its hard to describe but music is so much better in a social context, booming out of gigantic PAs. i learned alot about dance tracks by hearing them out. what makes a song kick off on the dancefloor. what works and what doesnt in such a context. songs are always bass light when i produce but at PA level you can feel it hitting you in the chest and the air around you vibrates like its electricly charged. a tip to all those producers aspiring to write dancefloor stompers. hearing pro songs played out also gives you a perspective on positional audio and stereofield placement. what works in a club. what doesnt. when the sound seems all around you thats an amazing sensation. this would make a very good new years resolution to everyone here i think. i cant see how you could lose out by getting some homework done as well as having a bit of fun at the same time.

juho is right, keep your minimoogs! i got plenty of homework that still needs to be done!

[Juho L]

I'll just put up my list now:

December 8th - Practised singing for a change. Some J.Karjalainen and Genesis. A slight flu made it a bit difficult, "Join the dance! Follow oo???RGh". Also practised to play Birdland and Humoresque. Then I ended up making the remix "contest" entry and did some experiments with tone machine and looping.

[Juho L]

Originally Posted by Wandering Kid

2) finally learn how to make chords diminished.

I'm not an expert on this (I'm not even 100% sure what diminishing is, hoho) but doesn't diminished chords just have lowered "harmonies"? For example C7 = C, E, G, Bb => Cdim7 = C, Eb, Gb, A.

3) spend the next 4 weeks listening to EBM and electro, maybe a bit of jazz. im beginning to feel jazz again. time for some pat metheny i think. to get out of this tarnce rut im in.

Nah. Spend next week listening to EBM and electro and then change to something else.

a practical session is basically a night out clubbing or any kind of music event.

Yup. Nothing beats a good live band. I'm still waiting for Nieminen & Litmanen live gig in Joensuu. Brilliant Hammond & drums duo.

[Hollowcell]

Originally Posted by Juho L

For the rest of the December, everyone forgets all tech babble and instead focuses on conrete and essential parts of music and production, like composing, mixing/mastering, playing and listening. All of you who can't play well (or at all), practise playing. Learn to read score. Learn chrods and chord theory. Widen your taste of music by listening to some totally different music you usually listen to. Try to compose/produce something different for a change. Share thoughts on composing, production, music. .

That's not gunna help my trance creations though!

[Onkel Dunkel]

Originally Posted by Juho L

I'm not an expert on this (I'm not even 100% sure what diminishing is, hoho) but doesn't diminished chords just have lowered "harmonies"? For example C7 = C, E, G, Bb => Cdim7 = C, Eb, Gb, A.

No, the "7" is still a "7" - Cdim7 = C, Eb, Gb, Bb. If it was C, Eb, Gb, A it would be a Cdimb7. Diminishing is a mol-chord with the kvint (is it called that in english?) lowered a half-note.

Eksample:

C = C, E, G
Cm = C, D#/Eb, G
Cdim= C, D#/Eb, F#/Gb
Cdim7 = C, D#/Eb, F#/Gb, A#/Bb

The "7" just adds the "7" (the Bb in a C-scale).

Here?s some more chord-rules:

- The number means the note number like the "6" in a C-scale is A. You count with the scale you are playing. Exsample: In a Cdur-scale 1=C, 2=D 3=E, 4=F, 5=G, 6=A, 7=Bb*.
*Exception from this rule is the "7". It is lowered a half-note or else it would be a maj-chord (or maj7 but it?s the same thing).- Another exception is "13" witch means the "6" and then "7" (6+7=13 ). Correct me if i?m wrong but isn?t C13 the same as C7add6?

- Sus is when you move the terts (is this called this in english?) one up or down like Csus2 = C, D, G and Csus4 = C, F, G.


To the original subject: I listened to Beethoven (synphonies no. 5 & 2) today

[Wandering Kid]

Cdim= C, D#/Eb, F#/Gb

thats all i need to know. thanks man well...

you know, i never understood why a C7 has a Bb in it since a scale from C doesnt have a Bb in it. the 7th note is a B. and since a Cmaj7 is C, E, G, B it makes me wonder why the hell a C7 is a C, E, G, Bb when a C scale is exactly the same as a C major scale. cuz theres no sharps or flats in a 7 note ascending scale from C.

perfect example.

C6. pure simplicity. C, E, G, A

everything after C7 (aside from the flattened B) makes sense.

C9. C, E, G, (Bb) grrr, D

C11. C, E, G, (Bb) grrr again, D, F

and the same for the 13th plus the 13th note from the root.

so...why the Bb?! why is it different from a Cmaj7, 9, 11, 13?

this is annoying because i keep asking people about this but i get the same answer pretty much all the time 'i dunno, you just have to do it.' either that or somebody fobs me off with bullshit. you wouldnt happen to know would you?

[Wandering Kid]

i just saw this...

Correct me if i?m wrong but isn?t C13 the same as C7add6?

sorry i missed it.

i dont think a C7add6 is the same as a C13. add just basically means +.
a C13 is a C chord (C, E, G) + 7th, 9th, 13th.

i.e. C13 = C, E, G, Bb, D, A

a C11 is a C chord + 7th, 9th, 11th/

i.e. C11 = C, E, G, Bb, D, F

and a C9 would be a C chord + 7th, 9th

i.e. C9 = C, E, G, Bb, D

therefore a C13 is the same as a C9add13. that is a C9 chord + 13th.

another example.

a C6add9 would be a C6 (C, E, G, A) + the 9th note (D)

C7add6 would be a C7 + 6th. thats why im not sure you can have this chord at all.

so a C7add6 should be C, E, G, Bb + A. or rather, because its in the same octave C, E, G, A, Bb. which should be C6add7. i guess you could have that.

[Onkel Dunkel]

Well in a C-scale both the 6th and 13th is an "A" so isn?t it the same thing? By the way; why do you wan?t the 9th in a C13?

C13 = C, E, G, Bb, A
C7add6 = C, E, G, Bb, A

I?ll ask my piano teacher


Wandering kid: The 7 is special since there?s a minor 7 (written just as "7" as in C7) and a major 7 (written "maj7" or just "maj" as in Cmaj7 or Cmaj). Not very logical i think but thats the way it work