That Dance punch sound

[TheHobbit]

Im on a holy grail hunt I describe as the Emporers new clothes need some advice please

I've been researching Waves plug ins and the like.

I've had a play with the L3-16 demo and it seems to be the only plug I can get 'that pump' from in tracks I'm playing with. I'm a fan of Voxengo and got afew of their plugs (Elephant&Polysquasher) demoed LFPunch and couldn't quite achieve what I describe as that Vacuum that sucks the rythmn out of a dance track/rhythms and beats. It's what Ihear as the beat being sucked and lifted in a track. I can't seem to get itfrom other plugs and Waves sound like they are delivering the result I am after.

I have a mixture of plugs so advice welcome if you're in the know.

Plug ins in my current set up comparable to Waves :

The Glue
Voxengo Elephant & Polyquasher
Fabfilter Pro-C and Pro Q
Variety of Sound plug ins. (Density/Bootsie freeware)
The Rocket
Hardware TC Triple C

I feel that I am on a holy grail and wondering if I'm on a mission for 'TheEmperors New Cloths' and convinced myself nothing else will do or if my perception and experience of hearing the plugins from Waves is factual, so to speak?

Strongly considering the Waves Platinum Bundle as some good deals around at the moment (£700) getting quotes and on the verge of buying Aas there's other tasty plug ins in the list.

Seeing as my style is predominently electronic and dance I feel SSN is the place to get the right answer. Other forums (KVR/Gearslutz) and the likeseem to have mixed opinions on Waves products as opinions are there's betterout there for less. I do suspect a lot is due to their policies that people get burnt buy and upgrade costs (doesn't worry me). I dont want to go down the UAD route (enough stuff plugged in my PC).

Using Cubase5x64 or x32(jBridge sees to work well with everything I have except Variety of Sound). Have had experience with Waves V5 on a friends rig which is why my ears may be more acustom to their sound. As Version 7 is VST3 and Sidechain supporting it seems I am ready to dive in. I know it souds like I am set on Waves and valuepeople's opinions from experience if I am heading down the right route.

Many thanks

M

What do people here use please?

[Timo]

Hi Hobbit, do you have any audio/youtube examples we could refer to?

I've tried quite a few software compressors, and ironically the only one or two I can get to pump a little is Steinberg's own "VST Dynamics" plugin that is bundled with Wavelab/Cubase, and the compressor bundled with CoolEdit Pro (now called Adobe Audition) which is great too and gives a lot of control.

I'm not sure what it is with software compressors in general, though. Not many of them pump. However you DO need one with a hard, linear 'VCA' style curve, along with a really hard ratio. Not one with a soft, optical or valve curve. But you can add soft/saturation after the VCA stage.

Usual settings:

• medium attack (say 20-50ms, just to allow the kick drum to pass through before the compression 'clamps' down. Or you could use anything below 20ms for a limiting type effect. Depends on the material, personally I prefer the former, to allow the main length of the kick drum to pass through without squeezing the life out of it. The slower the BPM, the longer the attack can be. With fast tempo tunes like trance at 140bpm, you can't afford a longer attack so 20ms is almost the longest you can get away with).
• quick release (anything 90ms or less. Set it so that the compression fully releases to zero before the next kick drum occurs and clamps it down again).
• high ratio (limiting, almost).
• lower the threshold to suit (set the threshold so that, after the compression has finished clamping down, the gain reduction bounces back up to zero to give the best dynamic range and compressive action, otherwise it's adding compression on top of compression and sounds like treacle/mush).
• tweak all of the above settings so they work together, depending on the music source and the BPM.
• raise make-up gain by ~5dB or whatever as necessary.

In comparison to software compressors, I can get my hardware RNC compressor to pump really quite easily. The RNC is quite clinical, though, so although it can pump it wont add anything further to the sound, where sometimes you might have wanted a little grit adding.

From listening to others, I think one of the best hardware compressors that pumps with character is the cheap Alesis 3630. Others use a DBX - I think possibly the 166XL, but don't quote me on the that.

If you try the Steinberg VST Dynamics plug, enable the Compressor, I use 20-60ms attack, 8:0 ratio, anything from -15 to -25dB threshold (or less if you want just want to clamp the peaks), release of 40-90ms (the higher the BPM the shorter the release), about 5dB makeup gain. Enable the end Limiter at -0.5dB to clip the peaks. Lower the Compressor makeup gain as required so that the Limiter doesn't show red all the time. Or Enable Soft Limiter and crank the Compressor makeup gain to saturate it.

To enhance the pumping action, I also add the free Endorphin compressor (www.digitalfishphones.com) with 40ms attack, about 90-100ms release, a little extra output drive, along with a little M/S action for stereo enlarging.

[TheHobbit]

Going to have a play with digitalfish others have mentioned brainworx. Unfortunately wavess can only demo with iLok which I dont have or the not so cool air route.
Something I have overlooked which you have nudged my mind is the TC Triple C which is going to be re routed in my rig.
Will report back

Thanks

[grs]

Hey Hobbit, are you trying to pump the whole mix or getting the pump from within a multitrack situation. The sound might be easier in the multitrack environment when you use sidechain ducking on all instruments other than the kik and using the kik as the trigger for the sidechains.