Marc/Access - I'm calling you out. We want answers!

[plaid_emu]

Apparently most of you are completely missing the point of my original post. IT WAS NOT AN ATTEMPT AT GETTING TECH SUPPORT FROM ACCESS OR MARC. To make it perfectly clear, my intent was to get a PUBLIC acknowledgment and/or response to this timing/sync issue. They either need to track down the sync/timing problem or just admit it's an issue they have no control over.

As I stated earlier, I've been troubleshooting this issue for over 6 months. I have done EVERYTHING that was ever suggested by Access tech support. I just never contacted them directly. I simply followed all their documented directions that were given to other users with THE SAME PROBLEM.

Contacting Access about a well known issue they apparently don't know how to solve (or aren't interested in solving) is like contacting the Dallas police and the FBI demanding real answers about the JFK assassination.

Originally Posted by marc

there is much misinformation going on in here. sometimes i wish that those who have problems would just give it a fresh start, contact access support when running into problems and fix them instead of claiming over and over again that it doesn't work anyway.

I expected starting this thread to get a real response would be nearly as futile. It was. In the end, it was not Access who fixed my problem. I sincerely doubt even they could tell me why it suddenly "fixed" itself.

And BTW, where are all you guys that have had the same timing issues now? You all were more than willing to bitch and complain until it came time for a real confrontation with Marc. The only one man enough to back me up was Dead Geoff.

[Totty]

Easy mate! I have backed you up. I know it's a genuine issue. Others have had had it. I'm not wanting to confront with anyone. I have tried to offer support to you as I know there are issues. I am at the moment asking Access support for help regarding my own issue with lfo timings and synchronization. It doesn't help my cause to keep coming on here and putting hard edged comments. I will test anything to help anyone else that I can. I will also be the first person to come here if I don't get a satisfactory response from Access. But it isn't an official forum here and we kinda have to help ourselves a bit

[Timo]

They either need to track down the sync/timing problem or just admit it's an issue they have no control over.

I highly doubt it's one single issue, but is different for each user and their setup, given that many appear to have no sync problems. There are a lot of external variables which Access have no control over.

Thus there is no single fix to cure all.

I expected starting this thread to get a real response would be nearly as futile.

It is far too broad, woolly and unconstructive. Even if they visit here, developers need to know people's individual specifics and adequate background (setup) information in order to work to track down (and fix) any particular common problem(s). Calling people out without any common info is not really the way to go about it. It's just going to end up with bad blood.

I have done EVERYTHING that was ever suggested by Access tech support. I just never contacted them directly.

In the end, it was not Access who fixed my problem. I sincerely doubt even they could tell me why it suddenly "fixed" itself.

I'm sure many will see the irony there. You stated you didn't contact Access personally with details of your individual setup when you suffered from it... So, 1) they'll never be able to help you if you don't contact them and thus 2) they will never be in a position to be able to tell you why it 'suddenly fixed itself', so it's unfair (and loaded) to infer otherwise.

I simply followed all their documented directions that were given to other users with THE SAME PROBLEM.

From the forums only? We can only trouble-shoot and suggest so much. (We aren't the horse's mouth).

One of the links you gave in your initial post was actually early 2008 when the OS version was v2.5.1... The OS has matured a lot in the last year - especially from OS v2.7.4+.

I'm sure you had (past tense) a very valid issue, and that others still do, and that it is frustrating. But if we users on the forums can't help (and there are many willing here to help you in any way they can), you really do need to work with Access support in order to resolve your own individual problems if you cannot find a common element (for everyone) to go to them with to say "look, X setup with Y config doesn't work for Z number of people", that they can go away to try and reproduce and (hopefully) bug-fix. I think it would be more constructive if those with sync problems perhaps posted in one thread trying to find common elements to see if there are there any common hardware/software TI issue(s) or whether it is external (in anyone's individual setup outside of the synth).

[plaid_emu]

I know you all think I'm a total asshole. I can understand this perception if you've only ever known me from the recent posts on this forum. I'm generally a good natured person who is considerate and compassionate. It's just that my musical vision, my life dream of creating a body of compelling music to share with others is actually closer to being realized with the help of the Virus TI. It is more inspiring and more capable than any I've used in the past and it's that "Holy Grail" synth, my own cosmic soul-mate of an instrument. Perhaps I'm too emotional about it. I just became very upset when I read the brief interaction below:

Originally Posted by emdebee

I know it's been said before but all I want is reliable timing with the arps and envelopes using Virus Control... I can't believe that this is still an issue - hrmmm It's doing my head in!

Originally Posted by marc

i don't think there is any type of timing problem as long as the rest of your system is okay. can you be a little bit more specific?

It almost seemed as though Marc was nonchalantly dismissing a common problem that a large percentage of frustrated Virus owners have been discussing for a long time now.

I know you've all made your points about personally taking up my own individual issue with Access support. The first thing I do before wasting the valuable time of tech support personnel is to research and fix the problem on my own, if possible. So I researched and found scores of users with hopeless stories about the same timing issues on nearly identical systems, running the same software. They said the problem couldn't be fixed by the recommended procedures. I tried said recommended procedures, couldn't get them to work either. Seems logical to just become discouraged, work around it and not bother the tech support guys at Access who already have enough on their plates. That's what I was doing until word of the TI2 came along. Then I got upset that the development team would just make a new product without trying to "fix" the old one. The lack of included rack ears was also disappointing. Then I read Marc's quote above. Kind of sent me over the edge.

That was my trail of "logic" which lead me to start this thread. I'm sorry if it was a different path than some of you would've chosen. I wasn't intent on creating "bad blood".

[Monobeat]

If I output my ARP notes via midi out and then record them to my sequencer, I can see the drift when the problem happens. I reboot the Virus and usually this fixes the problem. I suggest that you guys do the same, and then you have your proof. You can trade midi files with poor timing all day long.

[grs]

Hey guys/gals, I was just tinkering with 'surround balance' on an "wobbly timing" arp part and tried invering the phase of the second out.
Turns out only the right channel phased out to zero.
The left channel on USB1 is 2 samples in front.
and even in the right channel you hear a click every now and then.
So being a curious type I repeated the experiment using only USB2 and USB3:
Result = perfect cancellation, no clicks.

Long story short and relevance to the timing issue I loaded "wobbly arp" project switched every part away from USB1 to USB2 or USB3, even the init patches up to part 16.
My wobbly arp arrangment now plays back without incident with the arps.
I still hear maybe a stray single percussion note like a kik or snare.. (yes, I push my TI). But nothing a few passes in mixdown wouldn't solve.

If this helps other -bad timing- users out please let us all know. Maybe windows is keeping usb1 for system sound or something.(dircect x ??)

[UPDATE] Seems the sample missalignment was confined to a complex patch on Part 13, init patch produced phase out usb1 to usb2 and moving the complex patch to Part 14 produced a phase out with no sample slip on the left channel. Result not wobbly arp.

[Juho L]

Originally Posted by plaid_emu

It almost seemed as though Marc was nonchalantly dismissing a common problem that a large percentage of frustrated Virus owners have been discussing for a long time now.

He meant that there is no problems with the TI itself (the hardware and software of the TI), but the problem is in the computer side. That's why some people experience strange problems and most don't.

It's always the same when you throw in Macs or PCs. It's just bad luck things don't work and then you have to start troubleshooting your computer, OS and sequencer instead of the external unit releated to the problem.

GRS: I remember that few years back when the USB audio interfaces came to markets some users had serious crackling and buffering issues because the OS "polled" the USB port constantly creating unneeded data traffic. Maybe it's the same kind of problem with the Virus USB.

[Juho L]

Originally Posted by marc

and if you don't mind me saying, this tread shows that contacting support is mostly the better option anyway. at least, if you're not out for entertainment.

there is much misinformation going on in here. sometimes i wish that those who have problems would just give it a fresh start, contact access support when running into problems and fix them instead of claiming over and over again that it doesn't work anyway.

Indeed. Usually the problems that can be easily solved here are the classic "user error" problems. The rest is more or less a guessing game.

[grs]

Originally Posted by Juho L

...
GRS: I remember that few years back when the USB audio interfaces came to markets some users had serious crackling and buffering issues because the OS "polled" the USB port constantly creating unneeded data traffic. Maybe it's the same kind of problem with the Virus USB.

I just lowered my polling rate from 500 to 250 using advice from this page... http://www.overclock.net/faqs/73418-...-changing.html
No change in the occasional clicks.

Arp wobbles are a differnt issue, patch complexity related so far, but two work arounds I have mentioned a few replies ago..