Virus C vs Virus Snow?

[TweakHead]

But... that's exactly what it's meant to do! Just think about it:

You have, for example, an audio file on your DAW, and you place a fade out on it. Guess what, if it's linear, it takes more time for the volume to fade then with a negative value curve, right? Even though the length of the fade/curve is exactly the same. And for very short decay times, does it even make that much of a difference?

[Spreader]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

But... that's exactly what it's meant to do! Just think about it:

You have, for example, an audio file on your DAW, and you place a fade out on it. Guess what, if it's linear, it takes more time for the volume to fade then with a negative value curve, right? Even though the length of the fade/curve is exactly the same. And for very short decay times, does it even make that much of a difference?

Yes? My point wasn't that it's broken. Rather it was that the decay is too long. Is there any way to make it shorter?

[TweakHead]

yes, there's a way to make it shorter, make a negative curve for the decay or just leave it alone, by making the curve linear you're the one making it longer...

also... what kind of sound are you trying to make there? really curious...

should go without saying, you've made some very contradictory posts here...

about the excess of punch, take down punch intensity.

about making attack faster, turn attack knob to the left.

about making decay faster, turn it's knob to the left

adjusting the curve of either attack, decay or release: follow Timo's tip, don't complain if you make the opposite of what you want, sound wise, it's not the Virus's fault, just yours.

about knowing how to get the sounds you want: keep tweaking. read the indicated "how to program analogue synths" like indicated here...

[Timo]

Originally Posted by Spreader

However, the filters... I don't like the[] envelopes. They sound plasticky to me due to the exessive punch they have. I usually roll attack point down to 2 to get rid of that clicky, "compressed sounding" attack (maybe someone knows what I mean - or perhaps I am crazy?). I usually roll of the punch just a bit as well, I can't stand that "compression sound" for a lack of a better word.

Do you have Punch Intensity turned up? Punch is a feature that places a single-cycle pulsed 'click' at the front of the sound when you hit a key. By default (on an initialised patch) it's at 64. If you don't want it, turn it down to zero. I don't like it either when I'm programming sounds. I usually add it at the end, if at all.

Originally Posted by Spreader

I want the filter envelope to be linear, so to achieve that I do what Timo suggested. Everything is great so far. The problem is that the filter envelope slows down greatly when you do this. So if I set the Filter env amount to positive by as much as I would like the filter decay is slow, even when it's on the fastest setting.

So I can't have more linear envelope + fast decay on the envelope. Maybe some of you know some trick on the virus to make it faster.

If you're using my trick to attempt to linearise the curve, you shouldn't increase the FiltEnv > FltDecay amount any further than 30 or so, otherwise you'll bend the curve beyond linear and blow it completely outwards.

Remember, by modulating FiltDecay by FiltEnv, you're literally multiplying the curve by itself.

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by Spreader

Why does everyone here misread me? LoL. Perhaps I should be more articulate.

I want the filter envelope to be linear, so to achieve that I do what Timo suggested. Everything is great so far. The problem is that the filter envelope slows down greatly when you do this. So if I set the Filter env amount to positive by as much as I would like the filter decay is slow, even when it's on the fastest setting.

So I can't have more linear envelope + fast decay on the envelope. Maybe some of you know some trick on the virus to make it faster.

People are not misreading you, it seems you may be a bit defensive in accepting answers and suggestions others are giving. Learn to program your virus or any subtractive synth by using the downloadable book Access produced for just that aformentioned in previous post I made.
FYI--ALL the factory presets for all models are avail for download at Access' website under discontinued products. You have ALOT of options using modulational routing as well as envelopes to do what you need right in front of you.

[Spreader]

Originally Posted by namnibor

FYI--ALL the factory presets for all models are avail for download at Access' website under discontinued products.

Thanks, so which set do I download for virus B ROM presets? Everything before 2000s?

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by Spreader

Thanks, so which set do I download for virus B ROM presets? Everything before 2000s?

What it seems would benefit you best is under Downloads/Discontinued Products, "Manuals And Tutorials", "Tutorial On How To Program The Virus In English", [The analogue synth programming tutorial by Howard Scarr is a must for every Virus user. This archive includes the tutorial sounds.] Also on same page of download aformentioned, pdf download of "Diagram of Virus Signal Flow".
These two things will get your fingers on knobs along with Howard Scarr's tutorial, of whom is a formost sound designer in which he contributes to both Access and Waldorf's presets and the tutorial will give you a hands-on approach like none other as if you are only after "instant satisfaction" with immediacy only via presets, as wanting original factory soundsets or other's, you are not going to learn neccessity of basics of subtractive synthesis; starting as Tweakhead appropriately suggested in starting to work with ONE osc, using signal flow chart and twisting knobs through VCA and an envelope, then basic filter frequency and resonance, then learn how the LFO's further manipulate using modulation modifiers; doing all by starting with an init basic pulse or sine wave.
Matter-in-fact, if you have a paper usuer manual or do not, download it because the Virus B and C manuals actually take your from the beginning reading through, giving exercises hands-on and explaining through doing and hearing and of course memory--the best way to learn that although this is subtractive synthesis, when you are adding modulation routing and modifiers such as TIMO gave you, a person has to realize that what one does to one area of signal more times than not affects other areas that then will also have to be adjusted down or up to prevent unwanted artifacts in sound. This is not something one "picks-up" in an evening session or two; rather, like ANY instrument, there's basic need to know dynamics of reading language of music, but at same time whether a clarinet or piano, how to control that instrument through dynamics--in our case, learning how to route electrical signal of waveforms via osc's and and basic synthesis tools, then add more learning once mastering one thing e.g. modulation routing tools and how they affect the filter for instance. Tweakhead also stated most rightly that since we own some of the most sophisticated synths, starting with ONE TYPE of filter to master, before even tackling parallel/serial/looping/bipolar/comb, et al. The effects chain should really be least of worries as they are an extra "garnishment" that whilst learning programming could hamper training of ear in using the tools in front of you. It's not an immediate but rather progressive learning because these same tools are utilized in other synths and a sound designer or keyboardist must be able to say for instance in my case, be able to use same knowledge on my Waldorf Q, or DSI MonoEvolver Keyboard--all of which have totally different interfaces and lay out BUT indeed utilize ALL the same basics you will benefit from Howard Scarr's aformentioned download and most importantly, the User Manual. Nice thing about downloading pdf user manuals is you can use the search feature within that to more quickly find every instance that say "filter modulation" or "aftertouch as modulation source".
However, if you do not care about all these things and just want to use presets, YET wish to edit said presets without doing the work to learn it and post questions about things that the manufacturer has made readily available to you on various forums dedicated to the brands/types of synths you own or homerecording.com or gearslutz.com, or SoundONSound.com, you will realize we on infekted are quite accommodating, whereas some other sites will perhaps seem to come across crass when they often will answer such questions by "RTFM", meaning Read-The-F***ing-Manual. I rather direct a person to the tools readily available for their journey in wonderful world of sound design and making the sounds your own. Hope this has helped in a non-demeaning nor crass way. In my humble opinion, believe you could benefit from these things soley by posts here. It's a bit like someone wanting to play a synthesizer but does not know about music theory whatsoever and only interesting in letting arpeggiators and sequencers do all the music production for them and buying a Virus just because they read a certain music group uses it and they want to sound "just like them, but in their own style"...they are missing the point of all the practice we ALL have had and continue to do AND are STILL learning new things because that's how incredibly feature-rich the Virus for instance is.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with using presets! However, if you are wanting to ideally know how to alter said preset I suggest taking one preset and you will notice on Virus C or B as you change program presets the led's will change reflecting what is active and not in each and by deconstruction of a preset you can also learn how and what made it sound the way it does, why the mod wheel does what it may do to alter it, and even how aftertouch further evolves that sound by what else lights up in course of pressing harder while holding key(s). These "tools" apply no matter what style of music you are wishing to compose and contrary to average music listener's assumtions, ambient electronic and even IDM style or drones even can be really more complicated in modulational routings as opposed to typical trance-stylized music. Good reading and folowing exercises contained within is ahead of you and never forget to HAVE FUN in process. Repetition is also very good in learning process while learning in series of blocks and progressively getting more complicated--but get yourself so that by listening to other's music, you can hear how a sound changes and morphs and being able to say, AHA, THAT was a short attack with an envelope decay but with a long release while an LFO is bringing-in another type of filter , etc etc....Korg is re-releasing in March the mini-MS20 monosynth that's 86% size of original from like 1977, with same all analog, two osc, two filters, two env generators, with all the patchable bays for $599. and that's what I learned on in 1982 and even something like a monotron $59.usd, you can learn so much of basic subtractive synthesis. Starting out on an Access Virus in this knowledge is really akin to someone as a freshman in college wanting to jump right off into Quantum Mechanics of Phsics yet with absolutely NO know-how in mathmatical skills, let alone Calculus or Trig. Again, good luck on your journey as synthesis is so fun whether intended as a hobbiest or with ambition to produce music commercially, or even sound design for people to download.
Robert (with tired typing fingers)

[Spreader]

Originally Posted by namnibor

What it seems would benefit you best is under Downloads/Discontinued Products, "Manuals And Tutorials", "Tutorial On How To Program The Virus In English", [The analogue synth programming tutorial by Howard Scarr is a must for every Virus user. This archive includes the tutorial sounds.] Also on same page of download aformentioned, pdf download of "Diagram of Virus Signal Flow".
These two things will get your fingers on knobs along with Howard Scarr's tutorial, of whom is a formost sound designer in which he contributes to both Access and Waldorf's presets and the tutorial will give you a hands-on approach like none other as if you are only after "instant satisfaction" with immediacy only via presets, as wanting original factory soundsets or other's, you are not going to learn neccessity of basics of subtractive synthesis; starting as Tweakhead appropriately suggested in starting to work with ONE osc, using signal flow chart and twisting knobs through VCA and an envelope, then basic filter frequency and resonance, then learn how the LFO's further manipulate using modulation modifiers; doing all by starting with an init basic pulse or sine wave.
Matter-in-fact, if you have a paper usuer manual or do not, download it because the Virus B and C manuals actually take your from the beginning reading through, giving exercises hands-on and explaining through doing and hearing and of course memory--the best way to learn that although this is subtractive synthesis, when you are adding modulation routing and modifiers such as TIMO gave you, a person has to realize that what one does to one area of signal more times than not affects other areas that then will also have to be adjusted down or up to prevent unwanted artifacts in sound. This is not something one "picks-up" in an evening session or two; rather, like ANY instrument, there's basic need to know dynamics of reading language of music, but at same time whether a clarinet or piano, how to control that instrument through dynamics--in our case, learning how to route electrical signal of waveforms via osc's and and basic synthesis tools, then add more learning once mastering one thing e.g. modulation routing tools and how they affect the filter for instance. Tweakhead also stated most rightly that since we own some of the most sophisticated synths, starting with ONE TYPE of filter to master, before even tackling parallel/serial/looping/bipolar/comb, et al. The effects chain should really be least of worries as they are an extra "garnishment" that whilst learning programming could hamper training of ear in using the tools in front of you. It's not an immediate but rather progressive learning because these same tools are utilized in other synths and a sound designer or keyboardist must be able to say for instance in my case, be able to use same knowledge on my Waldorf Q, or DSI MonoEvolver Keyboard--all of which have totally different interfaces and lay out BUT indeed utilize ALL the same basics you will benefit from Howard Scarr's aformentioned download and most importantly, the User Manual. Nice thing about downloading pdf user manuals is you can use the search feature within that to more quickly find every instance that say "filter modulation" or "aftertouch as modulation source".
However, if you do not care about all these things and just want to use presets, YET wish to edit said presets without doing the work to learn it and post questions about things that the manufacturer has made readily available to you on various forums dedicated to the brands/types of synths you own or homerecording.com or gearslutz.com, or SoundONSound.com, you will realize we on infekted are quite accommodating, whereas some other sites will perhaps seem to come across crass when they often will answer such questions by "RTFM", meaning Read-The-F***ing-Manual. I rather direct a person to the tools readily available for their journey in wonderful world of sound design and making the sounds your own. Hope this has helped in a non-demeaning nor crass way. In my humble opinion, believe you could benefit from these things soley by posts here. It's a bit like someone wanting to play a synthesizer but does not know about music theory whatsoever and only interesting in letting arpeggiators and sequencers do all the music production for them and buying a Virus just because they read a certain music group uses it and they want to sound "just like them, but in their own style"...they are missing the point of all the practice we ALL have had and continue to do AND are STILL learning new things because that's how incredibly feature-rich the Virus for instance is.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with using presets! However, if you are wanting to ideally know how to alter said preset I suggest taking one preset and you will notice on Virus C or B as you change program presets the led's will change reflecting what is active and not in each and by deconstruction of a preset you can also learn how and what made it sound the way it does, why the mod wheel does what it may do to alter it, and even how aftertouch further evolves that sound by what else lights up in course of pressing harder while holding key(s). These "tools" apply no matter what style of music you are wishing to compose and contrary to average music listener's assumtions, ambient electronic and even IDM style or drones even can be really more complicated in modulational routings as opposed to typical trance-stylized music. Good reading and folowing exercises contained within is ahead of you and never forget to HAVE FUN in process. Repetition is also very good in learning process while learning in series of blocks and progressively getting more complicated--but get yourself so that by listening to other's music, you can hear how a sound changes and morphs and being able to say, AHA, THAT was a short attack with an envelope decay but with a long release while an LFO is bringing-in another type of filter , etc etc....Korg is re-releasing in March the mini-MS20 monosynth that's 86% size of original from like 1977, with same all analog, two osc, two filters, two env generators, with all the patchable bays for $599. and that's what I learned on in 1982 and even something like a monotron $59.usd, you can learn so much of basic subtractive synthesis. Starting out on an Access Virus in this knowledge is really akin to someone as a freshman in college wanting to jump right off into Quantum Mechanics of Phsics yet with absolutely NO know-how in mathmatical skills, let alone Calculus or Trig. Again, good luck on your journey as synthesis is so fun whether intended as a hobbiest or with ambition to produce music commercially, or even sound design for people to download.
Robert (with tired typing fingers)

Thanks. Actually I am pretty experienced with synths and the virus is not my first synth by any means, Kutzweil synths are much more complicated than at least what I have seen so far IMHO. The only thing in Virus I haven't had experience with is the granular synthesis stuff. I will take a look on the tutorials though, maybe there is something useful there. The MS-20 reissue looks cool indeed.

As for the presets, I am just interested if the famous Darude lead sound is from the virus B mostly. Maybe someone already knows the answer to this here?

[namnibor]

As far as massive modulation possibilities, having both the virus KB and KC, I'd say they along with my Waldorf Q and Microwave XT--are collectively the most complicated in a good way as far as plethora of options for sound design and I will freely admit that the Waldorf Q definitely out-powers in every way both my Virii...but with it's filters and distinct sound that sets the Q completely apart, it compliments the Virii quite nicely. Kawai K5000 is an additive synth and although never owned it, it makes deep programming a DX7 seem like a cakewalk.
Good to know you have some synth experience. Do know though subtractive synthesis programming is similar from synth to synth but when you massive modulation capabilities such as any Virus or as mentioned Waldorf Q, it makes in neccessary to indeed study the MANUAL download from Access VERY useful. The tutorial series on Access are for the Ti series as far as I know called, Programming Bootcamp...but this may carry over to some extent to prior incarnations of virus, so not to quote me there. Even though you have synth experience, I know people that have had ALOT of pro experience that have benfited GREATLY from Howard Scarr's Programming Subtractive Synths...download it and go through it and by all means read the f***ing manual! We have more filter options than all other hardware synths aside from Waldorf Q and the newer Blofeld, which I absolutely love as well and compliments the Virus sound. Listened to an ambient music post you have on Soundcloud that sounds cool in playing filters and very much like some of the stuff i experiment with currently the other day...good stuff by the way!
Robert

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by namnibor

As far as massive modulation possibilities, having both the virus KB and KC, I'd say they along with my Waldorf Q and Microwave XT--are collectively the most complicated in a good way as far as plethora of options for sound design and I will freely admit that the Waldorf Q definitely out-powers in every way both my Virii...but with it's filters and distinct sound that sets the Q completely apart, it compliments the Virii quite nicely. Kawai K5000 is an additive synth and although never owned it, it makes deep programming a DX7 seem like a cakewalk.
Good to know you have some synth experience. Do know though subtractive synthesis programming is similar from synth to synth but when you massive modulation capabilities such as any Virus or as mentioned Waldorf Q, it makes in neccessary to indeed study the MANUAL download from Access VERY useful. The tutorial series on Access are for the Ti series as far as I know called, Programming Bootcamp...but this may carry over to some extent to prior incarnations of virus, so not to quote me there. Even though you have synth experience, I know people that have had ALOT of pro experience that have benfited GREATLY from Howard Scarr's Programming Subtractive Synths...download it and go through it and by all means read the f***ing manual! We have more filter options than all other hardware synths aside from Waldorf Q and the newer Blofeld, which I absolutely love as well and compliments the Virus sound. Listened to an ambient music post you have on Soundcloud that sounds cool in playing filters and very much like some of the stuff i experiment with currently the other day...good stuff by the way!
Robert

sorry, THAT was OSCILLATOR's Soundcloud I listened to and accalades need to go there instead, sorry!