Separate tx and rx midi channels?

[tuf]

Is there anyway to get the virus to transmit on a midi channel but receive on a different one? I'd like to control an external synth, but the virus always responds to whatever channel you set the global channel to.

Usually I could just turn down the volume, but in this case, the external synth is running through the virus inputs...

[blairwillis]

Please describe your setup in a bit more detail. Does the Virus have a built-in keyboard (like Polar) or not (like Snow)? If not, what are you using for MIDI control?

[tuf]

Ive got a Virus TI KB, usually running in single patch mode. I've got a Nord Lead 3 Rack connected to it via the MIDI thru. The Nord sits nicely on top of the big blank area of the Virus TI KB.

The Virus MIDI in/out runs to an Edirol UM-880 on port 8. Port 8 is set up to loop MIDI back to itself, so using the Virus keyboard, if I select global channel 1, both the Virus and the Nord trigger just fine.

MIDI: UM-880 <---in/out---> Virus ---thru---> Nord
Audio: Mixer <------ Virus <------ Nord

The problem is, I want the Virus to respond on MIDI channel 1 and the Nord on MIDI channel 2. Since there doesn't seem to be a way to separate the TX from RX channel on the Virus, itll always receive on the channel it transmits on, which wont work for this setup.

On top of that, I run the audio from the Nord into the audio ins on the Virus. So, simply setting both instruments to channel 1 and turning the volume down on the Virus wont work...

[blairwillis]

Based on what you've told me so far, I'm not sure I understand the need for the UM-880 in the equation... unless you have lots more MIDI devices and/or you are connecting to a computer via the UM-880.

Also, regarding the Nord---audio--->Virus, why specifically? I see two possible reasons, (1) to use the Virus as an audio interface, and this is routing your audio into the computer, or (2) to use the virus effects/atomizer/etc on the Nord audio? If the answer is #2, have you considered running the Nord into a separate channel in the mixer, and using an aux send loop to run it to the Virus as needed? So when you're playing the Nord, the Virus is on an effects patch, and there isn't an issue with "turning the volume down on the Virus"?

To control the Nord WITHOUT sound OR effects on the Virus, why not create a "silent patch" on the Virus, no sound, no effects, total dry audio throughput, and use this patch when you want to use the Virus KB to control the Nord? Actually, I don't think you need to create it, there is an existing "INPUT" patch that will do this for you. This way, you don't need to change volume on the Virus, and you will get your Nord audio throughput just fine.

Question: Do you need to have the Virus and Nord on different MIDI channels? I can see a need for this if you wanted to control them independently from a sequencer or hardware on the other end of the UM-880. If you don't really need them on different channels, then that issue disappears, and the INPUT patch is the simple answer. However, if two different channels are necessary, then perhaps you can use a Multi patch to accomplish a similar result, where one part in the Multi is the INPUT patch on channel 1, and a second part is a silent patch on channel 2 (sending MIDI to the Nord). Or maybe part 1 is Input L (ch1), and part 2 is Input R (ch2) and you don't need to create a "silent" patch. <----- I am not certain if this will work with the Virus TI, as I have a Snow and realize there are some differences in Multi patch operation between the Snow and previous models. I also, this is hypothetical, as I did not test this theory yet.

Lastly, have you considered using the UM-880 slightly differently? Connect both the Virus and the Nord to the UM-880, rather than to each other. Create two different patches in the UM-880, one that keeps them separate, and one that patches the Virus's input port to the Nord's output port. The two synths can still operate on the same MIDI channel, but you can address them separately through the UM-880 (from the sequencer or whatever is on the other end of it) by addressing the separate ports, rather than distinct channels. When you need to control the Nord from the Virus, switch the UM-880 patch and go to a silent or effects patch on the Virus as needed.

I tried to be as clear as possible, but if something doesn't make sense, let me know, as well as more details on the audio and/or UM-880 setup as applicable. Sometimes I make things more complex than they need to be. And sometimes I'm just plain wrong.

Blair

[tuf]

Based on what you've told me so far, I'm not sure I understand the need for the UM-880 in the equation... unless you have lots more MIDI devices and/or you are connecting to a computer via the UM-880.

Both. I use the Virus as my main controller, and have a bunch of other devices. In this case, I need the Virus send midi to itself and the Nord through the UM-880. I realize I could do this with the soft-thru function of the Virus, but that isolates the Nord and I don't want to do that.

Also, regarding the Nord---audio--->Virus, why specifically? I see two possible reasons, (1) to use the Virus as an audio interface, and this is routing your audio into the computer, or (2) to use the virus effects/atomizer/etc on the Nord audio? If the answer is #2, have you considered running the Nord into a separate channel in the mixer, and using an aux send loop to run it to the Virus as needed? So when you're playing the Nord, the Virus is on an effects patch, and there isn't an issue with "turning the volume down on the Virus"?

Actually neither, although it is convenient to be able to use the effects-less Nord through the Virus inputs. The real reason is that the Virus and Nord sit almost in the middle of my studio on a stand, and the less wires the better running out to that area. The Nord sits on top of the Virus, and the audio and MIDI cables are all very short and tidy plugging directly into the Virus. I basically use the Virus ins as a way to share an input, hence the need to run them both on different midi channels due to the common volume control. But, your next suggestion did the trick:

To control the Nord WITHOUT sound OR effects on the Virus, why not create a "silent patch" on the Virus, no sound, no effects, total dry audio throughput, and use this patch when you want to use the Virus KB to control the Nord? Actually, I don't think you need to create it, there is an existing "INPUT" patch that will do this for you. This way, you don't need to change volume on the Virus, and you will get your Nord audio throughput just fine.

Brilliant! Exactly what I needed, and I didnt even think of it. This allows me to hear only the Virus when I want to (by turning down the Nord) or only the Nord by selecting the INPUT patch. Nice and easy!

Question: Do you need to have the Virus and Nord on different MIDI channels? I can see a need for this if you wanted to control them independently from a sequencer or hardware on the other end of the UM-880.

I do, for sequencing. With the solution you provided above I don't, but in general I do.

However, if two different channels are necessary, then perhaps you can use a Multi patch to accomplish a similar result, where one part in the Multi is the INPUT patch on channel 1, and a second part is a silent patch on channel 2 (sending MIDI to the Nord). Or maybe part 1 is Input L (ch1), and part 2 is Input R (ch2) and you don't need to create a "silent" patch.

Interesting idea. I prefer to navigate the Virus quickly using patch mode, and I tend to only use it in that mode. I use it more for live work and jamming than sequencing. I do like this idea though, and will investigate.

Lastly, have you considered using the UM-880 slightly differently? Connect both the Virus and the Nord to the UM-880, rather than to each other.

I'd love to, but I'm out of ports and its very far away

I tried to be as clear as possible, but if something doesn't make sense, let me know, as well as more details on the audio and/or UM-880 setup as applicable. Sometimes I make things more complex than they need to be. And sometimes I'm just plain wrong.

Incredible reply, and the information is very much appreciated. You completely resolved my dilemma with one of your suggestions.

Thanks!