USB audio Virus Ti

[marc]

Originally Posted by nutekk

while the audio that streams over the usb connection is 16 bit
you can still have your project setup in your host to a different bit depth..i guess the virus control software converts on the fly?

you wont get any added resolution on your TI parts...but at least the rest of the project(vsti,effects,mixing...) can be @ a higher rate.

exactly, you can use the TI in a 24bit/96k project if you like. the system is designed to work with any feasible sampling rate or bit depth.

marc

[Khazul]

Originally Posted by Timo

Apparently the implementation of USB v1 is a lot simpler, and the tools for that standard are more widely available/accessible to developers.

USB v2 resources and documentation are supposedly more thinner on the ground and more complex to implement, which is why you tend to see more Firewire soundcards than USB 2. USB v2 is starting to pick up now it's becoming more understood and that better pre-composited drivers are written and becoming more accessible.

There also apparently the issue the USB2 had no provision for bandwidth reservation for audio - probably explains why most (if not all) USB2 audio cards seem to be glitchy as hell unless the chain is perfect.

USB1 does ahve this - so while alot slower and very limited can be a hell of alot more reliable.

Of course for multi channel audio - firewire is really the way to go I think. Reserved bandwidth channels.

Maybe thats really complex to implement. Anyway - everyone seems to be jumping on the USB audio (roland, korg etc) bandwagon now - I can soon see a time very soon when its going to become utterly crippling have more than one or two synths with this kind of integration via USB.

Bottom line - PLEASE remember us users who have a perfectly good reliable multi channel high bandwidth midi and audio interfaces allready - I really dont want millions of little midi and audio interfaces - it messes up PCs and causes huge overheads on both PCs and Macs. (10 device limit for old driver model)

I just want the usb to act as a private control and patch exchange channel nothing else - roland half got this right with the V-Synth (you can at least upload samples while the synth uses regular midi, but cant have both hardware and usb midi - grrrr) - Yamaha sadly messed up with the Motif ES (cant have both hardware midi and usb midi, but at least got the studio connection sofware to work over either) and Novation got it right with the remote series (midi and USB allways available).

On the TI - this translates in option to disable all USB audio paths, allow VC to do its excellent job of controlling the TI *BUT ALSO* enable the hardware midi ports as synth and NOT computer ports, and loose the delay compensation (which I can switch of in Cubase SX). OK - so I know theree is the clock source issue - simple - only accept clock from one source or the other, not both, but allow other midi from anywhere simultaneously

I wonder what the Radias and SH-201 are like in this respect - whether they are full USB audio plugins, or whether you can just use it as a editor, patch manager and aurtomation labeller and leave the thing working on regular MIDI and analog audio for notes in/out and audio in/out?

Originally Posted by Timo

Which begs the question why they didn't choose Firewire.

... We can can only guess they reserved it for TI v2.

People tend to have one or two firewire ports and loads of USB ports. Firewire is however chainable (unlike USB) as its a bus system, not a point to point system (as USB is). I think good firewire controllers are alot more expensive as well and probably not many people doing off the shelf implementations of the drivers - so *far* higher risk to implement.

Learning to write reliable drivers for computers is not a trivial task - alot of audio hardware companies are slowly finding this out with the flood of completely useless drivers around at the moment - at least Access had the good sense to buy in a known working driver set as far as I can tell (probably also why we have USB1 rather than 2 or firewire - probably the main).

[aisling]

Originally Posted by Khazul

There also apparently the issue the USB2 had no provision for bandwidth reservation for audio - probably explains why most (if not all) USB2 audio cards seem to be glitchy as hell unless the chain is perfect.

USB1 does ahve this - so while alot slower and very limited can be a hell of alot more reliable.

Of course for multi channel audio - firewire is really the way to go I think. Reserved bandwidth channels.

Maybe thats really complex to implement. Anyway - everyone seems to be jumping on the USB audio (roland, korg etc) bandwagon now - I can soon see a time very soon when its going to become utterly crippling have more than one or two synths with this kind of integration via USB.

Bottom line - PLEASE remember us users who have a perfectly good reliable multi channel high bandwidth midi and audio interfaces allready - I really dont want millions of little midi and audio interfaces - it messes up PCs and causes huge overheads on both PCs and Macs. (10 device limit for old driver model)

I just want the usb to act as a private control and patch exchange channel nothing else - roland half got this right with the V-Synth (you can at least upload samples while the synth uses regular midi, but cant have both hardware and usb midi - grrrr) - Yamaha sadly messed up with the Motif ES (cant have both hardware midi and usb midi, but at least got the studio connection sofware to work over either) and Novation got it right with the remote series (midi and USB allways available).

On the TI - this translates in option to disable all USB audio paths, allow VC to do its excellent job of controlling the TI *BUT ALSO* enable the hardware midi ports as synth and NOT computer ports, and loose the delay compensation (which I can switch of in Cubase SX). OK - so I know theree is the clock source issue - simple - only accept clock from one source or the other, not both, but allow other midi from anywhere simultaneously

I wonder what the Radias and SH-201 are like in this respect - whether they are full USB audio plugins, or whether you can just use it as a editor, patch manager and aurtomation labeller and leave the thing working on regular MIDI and analog audio for notes in/out and audio in/out?

People tend to have one or two firewire ports and loads of USB ports. Firewire is however chainable (unlike USB) as its a bus system, not a point to point system (as USB is). I think good firewire controllers are alot more expensive as well and probably not many people doing off the shelf implementations of the drivers - so *far* higher risk to implement.

Learning to write reliable drivers for computers is not a trivial task - alot of audio hardware companies are slowly finding this out with the flood of completely useless drivers around at the moment - at least Access had the good sense to buy in a known working driver set as far as I can tell (probably also why we have USB1 rather than 2 or firewire - probably the main).

Khazul-

I appreciate and respect all your knowledge, you have taught me a thing or two.

[tvpnyc]

if i use the USB connection (w/ VC) i'm only getting 16bit "outs"... yet if i use the L/R audio outs i get 24bit output? is it possible to use the usb connectoin for midi/VC and the L/R outs for audio!? no!?

[muziksculp]

Originally Posted by tvpnyc

if i use the USB connection (w/ VC) i'm only getting 16bit "outs"... yet if i use the L/R audio outs i get 24bit output? is it possible to use the usb connectoin for midi/VC and the L/R outs for audio!? no!?

This is exactly what I would like to do at this point (Use the Analog Outs instead of the USB audio), but have the VC and Midi Available to edit and trigger the TI via USB. (Is this possible ? Now ? or in the future ?)

The TI's sounds so much better when using the analog outputs, the audio stream coming through the USB out sounds more metallic, kind of the ugly digital type, it lacks the smoothness, richness, and warmth of the analog outs.

Why did Access do this ? why isn't USB audio 24 bit ? I think this is a big compromise on sound quality, which is priority #1 at the price paid for the TI, plus it is suposed to be able to emulate the analog sound, but with digital sound at 16 bit I find it more digital in character.

If I could use the VC and still have the TI output sound via it's analog outs, I would do it.

Still debating wheather to continue using the TI with VC via USB, or use it just like an older virus C,B,.. via analog.