Virus C vs Virus Snow?

[Spreader]

Originally Posted by namnibor

What makes absolutely no sense here is "Spreader" was given "THE ANSWER" from Access as copied/pasted from his own post at start of this thread, yet obviously refutes the very engineers that definitely know more than any of us on this forum: Originally Posted by access:

"The filter models and the "classic" oscillator model in the Virus TI are the exact same as in the older Virus models. There was absolutely no change. Of course the TI offers other oscillator types at this point and it also offers more effects, etc., but the base features are the same in all the models - so is the sound.
The difference here are solely the D/A converters, which very obviously got way better over the years, when you compare the D/A converters in a Virus "a" to a Virus b to a Virus c and now the Virus TI models"
Also, TIMO said rightly about the audio differences in balanced/unbalanced outputs, et al. It's just anoying when one was given their answer from Access themself, yet has some Ego or Id thing to prove here!
Robert

Why are you spouting stuff I didn't say all the time? Could you please tell me where I "obviously refuted the engineers from access"?

All I did was that I put a clip here, saying pretty much nothing and now all the sudden you are complaining I am refuting access?

People, LIGHTEN UP. It's not my fault that you intepret my words as something they are not and then blame me for actually claiming it's supposed to be something it's not. FFS.


For clarification (I believe this is the 2nd time now?): I did NOT mean that test to be scientific test. I just wanted to compare how the snow sounded compared to the clip. Just something fun, that's all. I do believe the engine is the same, but the AD/DA conversion+DIs+pre-amps etc, will make a difference. Also the FFT would suggest that there is more aliasing in the C, which there probably is. Again, not claiming there necessarily is.

That being said I would like to know if there are some settings I should check on the snow when loading banks made with A/B/C to make them sound like intended.

[oscillator]

C'mon guys, it's just a game, it's just for fun.

Don't take the comparison proposal too seriously...

[TweakHead]

Originally Posted by feedingear

My humble opinion, the more people post in forums griping, the less time they spend actually writing/producing/synthesising/learning to use their ears .

so true... but it's cool to feed the geek side

[Spreader]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

so true... but it's cool to feed the geek side

Indeed.

I have spent some time with the snow now. It's a great synth for that kind of worbly lead sounds, the FM, ring mods, LFOs are great.

However, the filters... I don't like them. Or rather I don't like the envelopes. They sound plasticky to me due to the exessive punch they have. I usually roll attack point down to 2 to get rid of that clicky, "compressed sounding" attack (maybe someone knows what I mean - or perhaps I am crazy?). I usually roll of the punch just a bit as well, I can't stand that "compression sound" for a lack of a better word.

The trick that Timo posted here works great though, I guess I just prefer the more linear shape of the envelope. The only problem I have with the trick is that it slows down the filter A LOT, which would not be a problem, except for the fact that the scale runs out. So even on fastest setting there is still too long decay to get my favored pluck sound. Any ideas to make the attack faster?

That said I dig the LP18 analog filter... Yuuum. More synths should have these.

[TweakHead]

Not sure what you mean. But by default the oscillators on the virus behave like analogue, that means "free running", try to adjust their "phase" and it becomes more steady - saying this because sometimes this can create some sort of click, with very snappy envelope settings. If you think it's hitting hard, take away the punch intensity all together. About Timo's tip: it's called recursive modulation, very useful and shouldn't lead to any increase in attack time, it's just the curve that changes, also can be done for the decay and release. I don't agree that the envelopes behave badly on the virus at all...

maybe post an example for us to listen to, would be easier

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

Not sure what you mean. But by default the oscillators on the virus behave like analogue, that means "free running", try to adjust their "phase" and it becomes more steady - saying this because sometimes this can create some sort of click, with very snappy envelope settings. If you think it's hitting hard, take away the punch intensity all together. About Timo's tip: it's called recursive modulation, very useful and shouldn't lead to any increase in attack time, it's just the curve that changes, also can be done for the decay and release. I don't agree that the envelopes behave badly on the virus at all...

maybe post an example for us to listen to, would be easier

I entirely agree with Tweakhead in that the Virus envelopes behave exactly like "BASIC 101 SYNTHESIS ADSR" with the Virus also having a "T" for Time factor within envelope structure. I own both a Virus KB and KC and I learned basic 101 synthese back in 1982 on a Korg MS20, a classic real analog monster monosynth.
Matter-in-fact, the envelopes are extremely versatile in that couppled with Keytracking and modulation routing, one can have quite the evolving sound over a great period of time or be made to get beautiful pluck-type attacks akin to cello with fingers.
Then when a person dives deeper in basic 101 synthesis and learns how to manipulate bipolar and looping envelopes bringing LFO's into the manipulation--the possibilities are only limited by one's creativity or ability/knowledge.
There's free download on Access' website that was included with at least the B and C series synths called "PROGRAMMING ANALOGUE SYNTHS--Virus Tutorial By Howard Scarr". Suggested for all levels of synthesis, including even the novice--FYI.

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

Not sure what you mean. But by default the oscillators on the virus behave like analogue, that means "free running", try to adjust their "phase" and it becomes more steady - saying this because sometimes this can create some sort of click, with very snappy envelope settings. If you think it's hitting hard, take away the punch intensity all together. About Timo's tip: it's called recursive modulation, very useful and shouldn't lead to any increase in attack time, it's just the curve that changes, also can be done for the decay and release. I don't agree that the envelopes behave badly on the virus at all...

maybe post an example for us to listen to, would be easier

That "CLICK" Tweakhead mentioned happens to also be a very desirable attribute when programming a classic Hammond Organ sound, especially hand when velocity triggers it and that type of click coupled with noise/filter takes you down the drum kit path as well.
It should go without having to say this but there's seperate envelopes for say the filter, amp, etc.

[Spreader]

Played with the snow a bit more.

Indeed, if someone knows of a way to make the filters faster with the more linear envelopes, that would be great. I don't have problems with the "click" sound, it was just an observation. Many synths make way more obvious click sounds.

BTW, are the presets for virus A/B/C available somewhere? I heard that the famous Darude "sandstorm" lead sound may be a preset from the B and while I am not the biggest fan, it would be cool to check if that has any merit (I think it's from the TB though).

[TweakHead]

The Filters on the Virus are pretty standard. You can adjust the Envelope Amount of modulation for each of the two filters, which means exactly that: how much you want the Filter Cutoff to be modulated, either way (positive to the right of where it rests, negative to the left...).

I think you should probably try this with a "init patch" on your virus. Put the filter balance all the way to the left. And then play with just these settings so you get to know them well. Don't even change the CURVE of the envelope's attack, decay and release...
I don't mean to be rude here, but it shows you need to learn some basics

you have some dream machine to do that!

EDIT

the envelopes are fast enough to synthesize very hard hitting drums, or to modulate the filter for very precise and very fast psychedelic trance bass, even on 170+ beats per minute... so it's just a matter of knowing what you're doing, really...

try this, have a low pass filter, close the filter so the tone gets deep enough, then on the filter envelope, put this settings: no attack, a bit of decay, no sustain, and no or very short release, then slowly adjust the envelope amount knob, and play with it, or turn on the arp with "hold" setting enabled, the simple pattern 1 will do... play with it, the punch intensity brings more energy to the sound - so it's just another parameter to play with, for hard hitting sounds it's probably a good idea to turn in up, the other way around, just bring it down, that's it... if you want your waves to recycle on the same point (phase) for each note (which is really important for psychedelic trance bass and other similar sounds where you want it to play in a very stable fashion, adjust the "phase init" parameter, and you get all the precision you need.

Now, if you want it to wooble or sweep, turn the attack up, if you want it to rest on some cutoff point, turn the sustain up, the release is the time it takes to get back to the point where the cutoff knob rests. Play with it! Tweak that thing and open your ears! No problem with the envelopes or filters on the virus. Pretty much the same on any given synth out there (even software ones). Also try the negative polarity on the Filter Envelope. Try to turn down the "tracking of it", which just means that the Cutoff will vary it's position based on the note you press on the keyboard, useful for sounds that cover a larger scale on the keyboard. For examples: when you play low notes, the filter is very closed, when you go up an octave, it opens to allow more content to pass, so forth and so on. It let's you choose the root note for this as well...

Only after you get comfortable with all these settings, you should start experimenting with the two filters combo, either in serial, parallel or split modes.

[Spreader]

Originally Posted by TweakHead

The Filters on the Virus are pretty standard. You can adjust the Envelope Amount of modulation for each of the two filters, which means exactly that: how much you want the Filter Cutoff to be modulated, either way (positive to the right of where it rests, negative to the left...).

I think you should probably try this with a "init patch" on your virus. Put the filter balance all the way to the left. And then play with just these settings so you get to know them well. Don't even change the slope of the envelopes.

I don't mean to be rude here, but it shows you need to learn some basics

you have some dream machine to do that!

Why does everyone here misread me? LoL. Perhaps I should be more articulate.

I want the filter envelope to be linear, so to achieve that I do what Timo suggested. Everything is great so far. The problem is that the filter envelope slows down greatly when you do this. So if I set the Filter env amount to positive by as much as I would like the filter decay is slow, even when it's on the fastest setting.

So I can't have more linear envelope + fast decay on the envelope. Maybe some of you know some trick on the virus to make it faster.