Mixer gain set up for virus desktop

[spectral_19]

I connected my desktop to a channel in my mixer. The mixer is a Mackie 1402 VLZ74. On the channel there is a switch marked +4/-10 that controls the sensitivity of the mixer. Which one should I use for the Virus desktop ???

I checked the manual and on page 9 it says "Make sure that the equipment you connect the Virus TI to matches the Virus’ requirements (+4dB Outputs etc.)".

This seems to confirm I should use the +4 switch position on the mixer channel. BTW what would happen if I set the mixer switch to -10 ?

Thanks !!

[evilgus]

One setting will be louder and one softer, so make sure your master volume is not very high when you first play something. You should use the loudest setting that doesn't trigger clipping on the mixer. (There should be an LED to indicate that clipping is occurring.) The setting can't hurt the Virus, just your speakers and ears, if it's up too loud.

EG

[spectral_19]

Originally Posted by evilgus

One setting will be louder and one softer, so make sure your master volume is not very high when you first play something. You should use the loudest setting that doesn't trigger clipping on the mixer. (There should be an LED to indicate that clipping is occurring.) The setting can't hurt the Virus, just your speakers and ears, if it's up too loud.

EG

thanks for the reply !
so setting the mixer @ -10 should make the virus louder than @ +4 ?

[Timo]

Hi, which Virus desktop do you have? Is it a TI or an older C, B or A?

+4dBu is for pro-audio, while -10dBV is for consumer.

Pro audio uses three-core cables with 1/4" TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) jacks (these 'look' like 1/4" stereo jacks, but are used for a single balanced mono channel instead) or XLR jacks (usually microphone or mixer jacks). The extra core is used to invert noise signals over the cable, effectively cancelling out noise before it gets to the soundcard or mixer or whatever.

Consumer gear uses the usual two-core cable with TS (tip-sleeve) jacks - like 1/4" mono guitar leads, or phono cables and so on. These are more prone to noise.

The Virus TI's sport balanced outputs, so ideally you would use 3-core cables with TRS jacks with the +4dBu setting for best results. Otherwise use -10dBV when using standard 2-core cables with TS jacks.

The Virus A, B, C's have unbalanced outputs, so you would use -10dBV setting with standard TS cables. Alternatively you can solder up some pseudo-balanced cables for cleaner signals over an unbalanced setup, but that's another topic.

That said, you can use the +4dBu setting when using standard consumer cables for an extra 12dB boost, but in this case the noise floor will also be boosted by the same amount.

[spectral_19]

Originally Posted by Timo

Hi, which Virus desktop do you have? Is it a TI or an older C, B or A?

I have a new desktop TI2 and I use these type of cable connectors for the TI2:



So if I understand correctly you are saying that with these connectors (TS tips) I should use -10 dBV, but that the +4 setting would be louder (12 dB boost) ?

I am a bit confused because I tried both settings on my mixer and I felt that with the -10 dBV setting the Virus was distinctly louder (sometimes even reach overload in the LED level meter) than with the + 4 dBU setting.
Which sorts of makes sense since the mixer manual (Mackie 1402 VLZ74) indicated that the -10 setting is more "sensitive" than the +4 and thus with the same incoming signal the -10 setting would provide a louder output than the +4.

As for me, I'd just like to use the best setting that won't hurt the Virus and with the best combination loudness and low noise

[Timo]

Normally you would tend to use -10dBV setting with those jacks and cables, and instead use the Trim knob to calibrate the levels, unless you really needed the extra boost.

+4dBu would normally be louder than -10dBV. I can only assume the mixer socket senses for TS or TRS jacks and 'pads' (boosts) TS inputs accordingly (by ~12dB), giving you a similar output to +4, even though they may use different circuits. I'm only guessing here though.

Originally Posted by spectral_19

As for me, I'd just like to use the best setting that won't hurt the Virus and with the best combination loudness and low noise

-10 with the unbalanced jacks/cables shown should be fine. But if money were no object, for 'best' results, TRS jacks with 3-core mic-cable with +4dBu setting for a fully balanced option will give you a pristine analogue signal from the TI2 with a lower noise floor. The reason? While the -10 setting has to boost an unbalanced signal by 12dB to obtain the same level as a +4 balanced signal, if needed, it also boosts the noise floor of that unbalanced signal by the same amount... Whereas a balanced signal is already at +4 and doesn't need boosting, therefore its noise floor is already technically 12dB lower than an unbalanced one. Additionally any external noise picked up along a balanced cable is cancelled out via its extra core, something that unbalanced connections cannot do.

The TI's (apart from the Snow) and TI2's are unique in that they have +4 balanced outputs available to you. This is actually quite rare amongst synths, most use unbalanced outputs. Given the option, given it's available, I would go for fully balanced operation.

[spectral_19]

Originally Posted by Timo

Normally you would tend to use -10dBV setting with those jacks and cables, unless you needed the extra boost.

+4dBu would normally be louder than -10dBV. I can only assume the mixer socket senses for TS or TRS jacks and 'pads' (boosts) TS inputs accordingly (by ~12dB), giving you a similar output to +4, even though they may use different circuits. I'm only guessing here though.



-10 with the unbalanced jacks/cables shown should be fine. But if money were no object, for 'best' results, TRS jacks with 3-core mic-cable with +4dBu setting for a fully balanced option will give you a pristine analogue signal from the TI2 with a lower noise floor. The reason? While the -10 setting has to boost an unbalanced signal by 12dB to obtain the same level as a +4 balanced signal, if needed, it also boosts the noise floor of that unbalanced signal by the same amount... Whereas a balanced signal is already at +4 and doesn't need boosting, therefore its noise floor is already technically 12dB lower than an unbalanced one. Additionally any external noise picked up along a balanced cable is cancelled out via its extra core, something that unbalanced connections cannot do.

The TI's (apart from the Snow) and TI2's are unique in that they have +4 balanced outputs available. This is actually quite rare. Most synths use unbalanced outputs.

Thanks for the reply !! My last question is: if I use the +4 setting on my mixer with TS cables, this shouldn't damage the TI2, right ?

BTW, looking at the footer of your post, do you expect a TI3 any time soon ?? Asking this because I just got this TI2 desktop

[Timo]

I don't believe it will harm it, like phantom power would, but it will be a slightly unintended use from a theoretical viewpoint.

I would use -10 setting with unbalanced inputs and instead use the Trim knob, if available, to calibrate the levels.

Regards my sig, I've had those feature requests written down since 2005, from the TI|1 upwards and haven't seen those features being included yet, so I shouldn't worry.

Regards a TI|3, there's no sign of one appearing. Access also develops and manufactures the range of Kemper Profiling Amps for guitars as well, and the last few years have seen accelerated development for those devices, over the Virus line.

But it wouldn't be before time if a TI|3 was released at some point. The TI|2 hardware range was originally released back in 2009, and the last new collection of software features (TI OS v.5) released in 2012, so it's now four years since Access added new features to the Virus. Depends on whether Access wish to stay in the synth game or not in future, who knows.

Regardless, though, the TI|2 will always be an exceptional and extremely well featured synth. I still use my considerably older Indigo (Virus B engine) from 2001!