Editing / Updating Several Patches @ Once?

[Blackbelt Jones]

I own a TI2 Polar w/ the latest OS. Is there a way to "mass" edit several patches at once? Say I want to change the catergory of a dozen patches at once... or perhaps I want them all to have the same mod matrix setting (i.e. assigning the Mod to Filter Cutoff), do I have to do this one at a time in VC? Is there some ofther software package that would allow me to make simple "mass" changes like this? I am trying to update some sound banks and updating them patch at a time is brutal. Thanks all!

[MBTC]

I didn't see bulk edit on the list, but there's a third party editor here that supposedly works with all models you might try just to see if it makes life any easier: http://www.solar3d-software.com

[Blackbelt Jones]

Thank you for posting that - I am going to download the trial and take it for a spin. I was hunting for an alternative to VC and CTRLR but somehow missed this in my search, so I really appreciate the link. If I can batch process, I will be sure to update the thread (and pay for the full license upgrade).

It was suggested on the Access forum to use "Section Locks" in the VC to freeze the settings in areas like the Mod Matrix and Arp which in turn allows you to apply those settings to other patches. You still can't batch process, but it does allow you to save one setting and then simply drag your patches in and out of the MIDI channel with a section lock to have the settings applied. Unfortunatly section locks don't work on either soft knobs or the category classification, which is where I need to do the most work. That said, it will still prove to be a timesavor and I feel like I can use this feature for more than updating patches.

Thanks again for the link -

Mike

[MBTC]

Glad to help where I can.

Regarding the section locks, I actually started typing something along that subject when I saw your requirement to lock cutoff to mw, because my observation is that there's usually another way to accomplish that particular one. For example, on the Ultranova you can press a button on the synth that basically locks the "big knob" (the convenient one) to filter for all patches regardless of other patch settings. And of course in DAW with either a softsynth or something like the VST for Virus or Nova synths, all of that becomes ridiculously easy by just DAW mapping the wheel to the cutoff, or maybe using automap to do same.

But the other part of your requirement, which is probably less frequently asked for than the above (i.e. globally changing category for patches in bulk) is not something I had an answer for except for trying to find an editor to support it. Soft synths tend to make even that aspect ridiculously easy, for example categorizing patches by folder name (just go into Windows and create folders all day long for Zebra patches for example, and just paste them in), but I think you were looking for a Virus OS based solution rather than a Windows or Mac one -- I remember hearing others here ask in the past about bulk editing and not sure I've seen a good option posted yet (my own included). So good luck and let us know how it goes.

BTW, there may be a "mcguyver solution" that could be done with a little creativity and sysex ex/importing. I don't have a Virus ATM, nor much free time for experimentation, but it seems doable. If I thought there was a valid market for it I might embark on writing one myself -- but piracy these days has sucked the profitability out of small utility software like this so I focus on contracts with the big wigs ..... honestly these days some folks will balk at the prospect of paying $20 for a piece of software that will save them hundreds of hours, so for it to be worth my time there has to be a market there. I'd like to see Access show confidence in their own product by getting TI working properly and updating with a reasonable feature set before I start writing software for it and expecting to get paid if you get my drift

[Blackbelt Jones]

^^^ I tried the demo of Virus Command but it does not support the TI; however, it should be able to load just MID files. While it has no support for updating the soft knobs, it does appear to impart category class changes in a batch format.... however, the demo may have the MID file import locked. I am in contact with the developer now to see if this is possible and will report back when I have a better idea.

Originally Posted by MBTC

Glad to help where I can.BTW, there may be a "mcguyver solution" that could be done with a little creativity and sysex ex/importing. I don't have a Virus ATM, nor much free time for experimentation, but it seems doable. If I thought there was a valid market for it I might embark on writing one myself -- but piracy these days has sucked the profitability out of small utility software like this so I focus on contracts with the big wigs ..... honestly these days some folks will balk at the prospect of paying $20 for a piece of software that will save them hundreds of hours, so for it to be worth my time there has to be a market there. I'd like to see Access show confidence in their own product by getting TI working properly and updating with a reasonable feature set before I start writing software for it and expecting to get paid if you get my drift

This is where I have to weigh deploying my workarounds (section locks + hopefully Virus Command) versus taking a deeper dive in a "McGuyver" sysex workaround. Unfortunately I am not as clever as McGuyver, so will probably just suck it up and plow through it as I at least know the time will be spent getting me where I need to go.

And you are spot on... it never ceases to amaze me that people "cheap out" on things that will actually save them time. What is $20, $30 or $50 when buying an application can dramatically improve your workflow? It's nuts - time is precious and I am always happy to pay for a product that will save it exponentially in the long run.

It is unfortunate people are so quick to steal in the digital domain. To a certain set there is no concept that real people put real time in to these products, and if they want to see them expand and grow, they need to pay in to the system. But, such is the state of things these days, and I wouldn't blame you one second for staying out of that pool.

If I actually figure out a way to do this, I will update this thread as I can't believe I am the only person who thought "damn, it would be nice to change the soft knob settings on these 30 patches without having to update them one-at-a-time".

Cheers,

Mike

[Blackbelt Jones]

OK - in the short time since I posted last, I had a great e-mail exchange with the developer. While I was able to load a MID file thanks to his help, the application does not currently support batch editing; it does not also support TI MID files fully. However, you never know what updates to the software may bring, but I wouldn't presume to speak on behalf of the developer.

I must say, he is a fantastic and quick communicator and I like the look of his Virus Commander software; if a TI version ever became available I would gladly buy it.

[MBTC]

Originally Posted by Blackbelt Jones

If I actually figure out a way to do this, I will update this thread as I can't believe I am the only person who thought "damn, it would be nice to change the soft knob settings on these 30 patches without having to update them one-at-a-time".

You're definitely not the only one who has wanted bulk patch modifications to the Virus -- I've seen others request solutions for it in the past, on these forums even. I'm pretty sure the past consensus though has been that it's not yet been doable to date.

I think you're on the right path by communicating with the developer of that editor. Many developers of small niche software like this really make their product their passion and spend their weekends working on it, and are always looking for ways to improve it. I've been surprised on more than one occasion when I sent a developer feedback on a critical feature I'd like to see, only to see them quickly implement it in the next release.

Some ways to help influence inclusion of a new feature in that case:

1. Buy the software if you like it and it otherwise meets your need -- they are much more likely to listen to supporting users than someone they think has no interest in a purchase. Obviously though, YMMV in this particular case -- if lack of bulk editing is a deal breaker for you and without it you aren't interested in buying, I'd just mention that to him as well.
2. Communicate the feature you have in mind as clearly and specifically as you can. This goes a long way -- the less the developer has to think about the requirement, the more time he can devote to the implementation. I love it when I get users who really know what they want and communicate it well, I almost always ignore feedback them it is poorly defined, non-specific, the user hasn't thought it through, or just isn't communicating it effectively. It's just that there's only so many hours in the day and I figure if they don't know what they want or can't take the time to explain, it's not worth my time to play guess the magic numbers. There are some folks on the FLStudio forum that actually go so far as to put together photoshopped screen mockups of what the feature should look like, describing the workflow in detail etc. I've seen lots of features included in FLS simply due to the clout those users gain by taking the time to do that.
3. Never whine. I can tell this wouldn't be an issue for you, but there are some users that will just send an e-mail going "this really sucks why can't I do ________?!?!?!?!?!", or rant in all caps or whatever. Their mails get ignored fast Only constructive requests will have the desired effect.

Anyway sounds like you're on the right track. Wonder why he doesn't currently support the TI? I missed that fact in the initial perusal of his site. Maybe he figures VC has all the bases covered already and there's no point. Or maybe there's a technical/legal hurdle in his way? Anyway it seems like if it supports standalone file imports and doesn't necessarily require communicating with the device, both tech and legal hurdles should be few. In other words export data from TI to some file format (is it possible?), use his software to bulk modify the file, then re-import using Virus control software.

[Blackbelt Jones]

^^^#1, #2 and #3 are all excellent advice. I used to work for a software company (sales, not programming!) and I vouch for all of it. As for #2 I started down that path already by letting him know that it would be a feature unique to his product and why users would actually want such a thing. But again, I know often times such software are labors of love, so we will see if it is a realistic feature request.

[TweakHead]

I think he's done the editor for A, B & C alone because he thought the TI wouldn't need another editor, since it's got the Virus Control. What really puzzles me, though, is the fact that the first developers (let's say Access) does not address this issues and allows for the appearance of such "niche" markets. They're not entirely alone in this. Just check Rekon Audio's web site: they make money selling editors that the synth makers didn't take the time to create in the first place.

There's also that one (from Rekon Audio), but fails to do what you want and, like V commander, it's aimed at the A, B and C only. I also have MidiQuest with the Virus editor in there. But no such feature.

You should also try and post your request on this forum:

http://ctrlr.org/

I haven't spend much time there, but it seems to me the editors are the result of hobbyists and the forum seems to be active enough (and geek enough, lot's of macgyvers in there for sure)... It's open source, so no royalties but there's already a Virus editor in place and maybe you'd be lucky contacting those who did it. There's been plenty of versions of it (for any model of the Virus, including the TI hanging there), so it's something you should try, I think...

I only noticed I'd might want to do it after I read this XD but if anything turns up, be sure to post here the good news. Cheers

EDIT

checked it again and there's this in the description:

· Section Locking.

"Lock any section of the Virus sound engine. For instance, lock Oscillator 1 and Amplitude Envelope. When loading or receiving a new patch, the locked sections will not change. Do you like the effect settings of a patch, or the arpeggiator pattern? Lock them and test any patch with those settings. Forget about random generators."

(http://ctrlr.org/access-virus-ti-snow/)

so I guess that if you lock the edit you made for the soft knobs on one patch, you could load the others without changing that, or something like that...

[Blackbelt Jones]

Thanks for your thoughts Tweakhead. I may actually give CTRLR a shot again and try out posting over there... that hadn't occured to me before you posted and it seems like a good idea.

Regarding section locks: the good news is that they do work as advertised. The bad news is that there are no section locks available for the "common" parameters like soft knobs and category classification... only "synth" paramaters like FX, Arp, Mod Matrix, etc. Still, using them is a massive timesaver for those paramaters - especially if you want several patches to have similar vanilla Mod Matrix or FX settings.